Lutino with Cinnamon makes what?

[ahilt11]

Hello...I am also curious as to what color baby ringnecks I will have with a pair that I am currently breeding. I have a Lutino Male and a Cinnamon Female (lime green/cinnamon). What color will the babies be? Thanks so much!

[dog_glenn123]

Hi there you will get the following.

1.0 ino
x 0.1 green cinnamon
% from all 1.0
100.0% 1.0 green /ino cinnamon
% from all 0.1
100.0% 0.1 ino

All the green babies will male and carry both the ino and cinnimon gene but you wont see it.
And all lutinos will be female no splits.

That result is based on niether of your birds being split to anything.

Thanks Glenn

[Recio]

Hi Glenn;

Can you calculate what the male green babies (split ino and split cinnamon) will produce if they are pair to a wild green female?

Try to find it out and we will discuss.

Recio

[dog_glenn123]

Hi Recio.

I would say the below.

1.0 green /cinnamon-ino
x 0.1 green
% from all 1.0
1.5% 1.0 green /cinnamon
48.5% 1.0 green /ino-cinnamon
1.5% 1.0 green /ino
48.5% 1.0 green
% from all 0.1
48.5% 0.1 ino cinnamon
1.5% 0.1 green cinnamon
48.5% 0.1 green
1.5% 0.1 ino


But i think you are about to educate me.

I would say that the ino cinnamon is the one you will talk about!

Ta Glenn

[madas]

Hi Recio.

I would say the below.

1.0 green /cinnamon-ino
x 0.1 green
% from all 1.0
1.5% 1.0 green /cinnamon
48.5% 1.0 green /ino-cinnamon
1.5% 1.0 green /ino
48.5% 1.0 green
% from all 0.1
48.5% 0.1 ino cinnamon
1.5% 0.1 green cinnamon
48.5% 0.1 green
1.5% 0.1 ino


But i think you are about to educate me.

I would say that the ino cinnamon is the one you will talk about!

Ta Glenn

Nearly an exact result.

But the pairing ino x cinnamon will give you green /ino /cinnamon male youngsters with ino on one sex chromosome and cinnamon on the other sex chromosome. So in the gencalc you have to take care of this fact by typing in ino on X1 and cinnamon on X2. Or vice versa. And with the effect of crossing over factor of 3% between ino and cinnamon you will only get 1,5% ino cinnamon females.

greetings

madas

[dog_glenn123]

Ahh i see didnt have a clue about that what x1 and x2 meant.

Thanks for that.

Question Madas are you French?
The way you explain things has a French way about it.

Through my work i deal with alot a french people and doco's and (you have to take care) and another (you need to manage) is the way they put it.


So like this.

1.0 green /cinnamon ino
x 0.1 green
% from all 1.0
48.5% 1.0 green /cinnamon
1.5% 1.0 green /ino-cinnamon
48.5% 1.0 green /ino
1.5% 1.0 green
% from all 0.1
1.5% 0.1 ino cinnamon
48.5% 0.1 green cinnamon
1.5% 0.1 green
48.5% 0.1 ino

Ta Glenn

[Recio]

Hi Glenn;

You are right. It took me time to learn about crossing over in sex linked mutations and I will take this example to explain it and to show how to use the genetic calculator.

The green male split for ino and for cinnamon has received one of his sexual cromossomes from his father (lutino) and the other one from his mother (cinnamon). Each one of his sexual cromossomes carries a different mutation, that is he is split ino and cinnamon but each mutation is carried by different cromossomes of the same pair (let's say Xino-Xcin). This male produces spermatozoids, which are haploid. It means that they only carry one cromossome of each pair and thus they can carry ino mutation (Xino) or cinnamon mutation (Xcin) but not both of them. This is the general rule but it can happen that during spermatogenesis one of the mutated genes in a cromossome is transfered to the other sexual cromossome resulting in one spermatozoid carrying both mutations and another one carrying the wild genes. This process is called crossing over. The rate of crossing over depends on the relatif distances between genes. For the ino and cinnamon genes, which are very closed in the sexual cromossomes, the crossing over rate is 3%. This means that 1.5 % of spermatozoids will carry cinnamon and ino mutations, 1.5 % of spermatozoids will not carry any mutation (wild type genes), 48.5% will carry ino mutation and 48.5 % will carry cinnamon mutation.

Thus when you choose cin and ino splits for the male in the genetic calculator you should pay attention at what type of male you are dealing with:

Type 1: cin and ino mutations are carried by the same sexual cromossome (X - Xcin-ino). This male will produce spermatozoids as follows:
48.5 % cin-ino
48.5 % wild type
1.5% ino
1.5% cin
As you can see the crossing over phenomenon can act to join genes in the same cromossome and also to separate genes, and this is done at the same rate (3%) since it only depends on the relatif distance between the genes (loci).
When choosing in the genetic calculator for male splits you should mark correlated cases for ino and cin.

Type 2: cin and ino mutations are carried by different sexual cromossomes (Xino - Xcin). This male will produce spermatozoids as follows:
48.5% cin
48.5% ino
1.5 % cin-ino
1.5% wild type
When choosing in the genetic calculator for male splits you should mark uncorrelated cases for ino and cin.
This is the case we were dealing with since the male was the son of a lutino male and a cinnamon hen. Thus the correct results when paired to a wild female are:

Males:
48.5% 1.0 vert /cinnamon Xcin/X;
1.5% 1.0 vert /ino-cinnamon Xino-cin/X;
48.5% 1.0 vert /ino Xino/X;
1.5% 1.0 vert

Females
1.5% 0.1 vert
48.5% 0.1 vert cinnamon Xcin/Y;
1.5% 0.1 ino cinnamon Xino-cin/Y;
48.5% 0.1 ino Xino/Y;

I hope you enjoy the game. This phenomenon happens also between the other mutations carried by sexual cromossomes: ino and opaline, or cin and opaline, or all 3 together, and you will remark how results change depending you consider type 1 or type 2 males (type 1: both mutations in the same cromossome, type 2: both mutations in different cromossomes). For further complication you can add pallid instead of ino, since they are alleles.

This phenomenon is not restricted to mutations carried by sexual cromossomes but it applies to any mutations located in the same pair of cromossomes: ex in autosomes: blue and dark.

The important thing is to keep in mind if the mutations are in the same cromossome or in different cromossomes of the same pair.

Greetings

Recio

[dog_glenn123]

Hi Recio thanks i understand now.

So in the case of my green split blue ino this doesnt count.

Ta Glenn

[Recio]

Hi;

Sorry I did not remark that Madas had already answered... I was too busy writing about the crossing-over roman

Madas is german. I am spanish but I live in France. We are "neighbours".

Greetings

Recio

[dog_glenn123]

No worries thanks anyway.

How do you appear off line (very clever)!!!

Or do you write into word doco and paste it in.

Thats probably why he writes the way he does.

I obviously live in Australia but work on Alcatel PABX's (French) its hard to read fringlish.


Ta Glenn