Having a crappy day & ready to throw in the towel!

[jen5239]

Hey everyone,
I'm having a really bad day and I'm just ready to throw in the towel with Byndi! I tried today just to put my hand in the cage and that bird threw himself all over the place like I was trying to kill him. He won't hardly come out of the cage and if he's hanging in the door way and I make a move toward it he FREAKS and runs inside. I'm so at a loss and I don't know what to do. I'm ready to tear my hair out! I really could cry if I'd let myself. I read all these great posts of how wonderful your experiences are with your babies and I'm just so envious! I see all these awesome photos of Datsun and how much fun she is (and please keep them coming. I will live vicariously through your photos!) and I just feel so sad that I don't have that with my Byndi. What can I do?? I don't want to traumatize this bird and that's what I feel I'm doing every time I put my hand inside the cage. Then he throws himself all over. AND FOOD DOES NOT, NOT, NOT WORK with this critter! He could care less. HELP ME PLEASE. I'm a case right now. And I know it's just cause I'm having a bad day and I thought for some dumb reason I would try to put my hand inside and see what he'd do. Well got my answer. So please anyone????

Sadly,
Jen

[tasha]

Jen

It will be okay honest, I have only just started to be able to put my hand in to get Indy out of his cage and I have had him for almost 5 months it just takes time and I know you don't want to hear that as I didn't when others told me.

I had many days where I was going to give him away I just couldn't stand to look at him but now we still have our moments but the good times outway the bad .

Hang in there it will happen eventually.

Tasha

[Dani03]

The first thing one needs with these birds is patience! You must be patient. If you are not you will NEVER get to the point where most of us are at. Sometimes, sadly, you may never get there anyway. You have to love them no matter what you may or may not able to do with them. So what if he wont willingly come out? You still love him right? It is something you both have to work on. Open the door and let him have it open all day long. Shut it during the night and repeat as long as it is necessary and never ever force him to do something. If forced these birds will remember and will harbor resentment. They are very smart.

Please don't give up. Byndi needs you. If you throw in the towel and decide that you can't do this then you are just helping to create socially 'unacceptable' birds that get re-homed over and over. it is so sad to hear that almost 90% of all 'first time homes' for birds do not stay there. Please please please do not help with this! You need to help Byndi to trust you and giving up is not the answer. You took in the responsibility of taking care of Byndi for the rest of his life. Don't back down from this challenge.

Byndi may never be Datsun or Princess or Baby but atleast he is Byndi right? Don't ask him to be anything else...after all you wouldn't ask a human to be something else...

Dani and Prinny

PS If you ever need to IM someone please consider me! My Yahoo name is Sundance8503@yahoo.com This goes out to anyone if you need to talk you are more than welcome to IM me, just let me know who you are

[Mikaela]

Although and after adopting Peek-a-Boo I must agree with Dani 100%. That girl has driven two people, I know of, up a wall. I'll never give up on her if she sits there and screams until my ears bleed and neither will you!

You'll get it together, no bad vibes... keep the cage door open and sit and talk to that baby. And you will do that until he WANTS to come to you and HE will. Got it

I know your mad! I know you are frustrated! But that is distroying any bond you have already created. YOU ARE A GOOD PARRONT. He is a good boy.

My girls and now Chief are trained. Some people have a knack for it, some it takes time. Me, a little of both. The second most important thing next to patience is you CANNOT fear him. I know this sounds crazy but YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE BITES. And on top of that, ignore them. Until you are willing to put your hand in to teach him to step up and take the bites until he realizes you dont care that he bites... bad days will get alot worse.

Im sorry I might sound rough on you Jen but we have worked together alot and Im not giving up on you now. However, I know where the problem lies. You are afraid of your bird and he pushes you around. Plain as that. Until you break your fear he is only training you and so far he has done a good job.

Now, calm yourself, get a chair by that cage and sit and talk sweetly to him for 3 Days. Then, we are going to teach him to step up. It is a natural response really to being touched on the chest above the legs. It is no special voo-doo trick. You are going to do this by asking him to step up while offering your forearm and TAKING THE BITES. We are using the forearm because we can tighten that area of skin and the bites hurt far less. I know what it is like to have a vicious bird lunging at you when you are trying to love or touch it, we all do. ALL OF OURS DID. You wont respond, he will realize that gets him nowhere and in the blink of an eye... You are boss.

I know how intimadating it is Jen but you MUST get past it, and dont say this isnt the issue but we both know it is. Otherwise, he would be trained by now and not you. You would better control the day than he, although all of our babies have bad days.

Be pissed at me if you want. But you know I say what I say out of love... tough love perhaps but that is what you need right now. You have had far enough time.

I wish SO BADLY I had a baby IRN so I could show you how I interact via digital video you could download. I could do it with my girls but I need a mean, vicious lunger that is stubborn and independent... a baby

[jen5239]

Once again Mikaela, you're a doll! And I am so not mad at you! I could never be mad at you. I do however wish we lived close enough that you could swing by and show me what to do! I get freaked out when I put my hand in the cage and he literally throws himself all over the place. Top to bottom and SCREAMS like he knows I'm going to rip him to shreds! That kills me and I feel I'm doing something horrible to him and his psyche and I take my hand out. Is this okay for them to freak like that??? He doesn't sit still. He's ALL OVER the cage. And it does seem like he's throwing himself. Top to bottom to side. Screaming with fear?? Or anger?? I'm not sure. And then I get freaked. Cuz he's breathing hard and pinning his eyes. And I just don't know what to do then. Even if he's in his cage and we've had a good day. If I walk up to the cage he goes to the highest perch and to the other side from where I am. It's like he's afraid of me. It's just so very frustrating. And I appreciate the words of encouragement! They give me hope when I'm feeling like this. So keep em coming please. He's such a beauty and I so want to interact with him. I wonder if I could do a video of him acting the way he does and send to you. So then you could see what's going on and how he's acting and offer suggestions then. Can you do that with a reg. video camera? Let me know what you think of this advice. Well I'll shut up now and can't wait to read your reply. You're the best! Thanks!

Hugs,
Jen

[jen5239]

Tasha,
Thanks for the kind words of encouragement. I needed them! Was Indy tame at all when you got him?? Could you hold him at all? See Byndi wasn't. At the breeders he let her hold him, but was a little flighty. So I thought with a few days work he'd be okay. WRONG. It's a mess. And I'm really just having a bad day. But your post helped me feel better. Can you hold Indy now? On your hand? Byndi scurries right up my arm to my shoulder. He doesn't like hands at all. How old is Indy?? I'm not really sure how old Byndi is. They told me a year. But they also told me he was tame. Yeah, right! So... Looking forward to hearing from you soon. Thanks Bunches!

Hugs,
Jen

[Mikaela]

He is playing you like a fiddle. I'd love to get my hands on that little bugger. Upside is, if you ever get him tamed down I think he is going to be an extremely loyal bird.

They are master manipulators. Almost as manipulative as bitter ex-wives. He doesnt want to be touched so he acts like a fool because that makes you leave him alone. He has you trained and we are gonna reverse that.

Get your boots on, its gonna get deep. Courage! Awesome challenge!

If you dont have spray millet, please pick some up as soon as possible. Sit above or at eye level with the door open and your hand placed on the cage holding the millet while speaking like you would to a baby. I know it sounds retarded but bare with me.

Dont maintain constant eye contact. Glance at him. Sing to him. Say "I love you Byndi" in a high pitched voice. Maybe I love you will be the first thing he says.

This is not an immediate gratification thing. Having these birds has certainly allowed me some self-improvement... patience and lack of immediate gratification.

I have an idea. I will get Chief a little aggravated because he is a baby and will still lunge and bite. He will also try to get far from me if he is pissed off. I will record how I handle a bird that doesnt want to be handled. I dont MAKE them step up but use their natural ways of moving about to get their feet on me finger, then praise them saying good boy for stepping up. Er, hard to explain in words.

[Neokireina]

I had a cockatiel that was afraid of hands. But when I put my sleeve over my hand he would hop up no problem and would even sing to my covered hand.

I find ringnecks are really hard to tame from wild and I gave up. If you really want the love try getting another younger bird. I'm not saying Ignore your current bird. But You will be focused on the new bird and your current bird will take its time getting used to the way things are without you focusing on it. Birds learn from each other also so it's possible that having another bird to do the "model rival" thing might help to get both birds tame.

My wild cockatiels learned from my other birds and now they dont fear me and one even will approach me for food. Just by living with the other birds and no training from me. I can enjoy them and watch them, they arent scared but I also get the love **I** need from my sun conures. Not all birds want your love and attention, and some may more than others.

So I would suggest getting a new baby so you can start from scratch with the love you want to give, and let your other bird take time and learn to live with you and learn from the baby.

[Datsun and Family]

Jen,

You will get there with him, he may never be the snuggler you long for but he will become handleable. You NEED to assert yourself with him! You are boss, he does as you ask when you ask.

Im so sorry you see pics of my Datsun and think shes always loving. Pictures lie, they are a one sided story that I can manipulate as I please. I can assure you she can be a bitch... nippy, screaming, nasty... on her bad days but to be honest I don't dwell on them because every good day so drastically outweighs the bad ones.

Byndi has come so far, he is trying so hard and I know that it comes at a cost. It is hard work, no fun, exhausting both mentally and physically but you have been doing so well!

I have recently been in contact with an Olive Ringneck who had been handraised but not handled for a year and I was told he should be an aviary bird because he is vicious and self mutilates. He tore his abdomin open nd now wears a horrible collar to stop him inflicting any more damage on himself. I have nicknamed him Chucky Plucky.

Chucky is not fixed, but on the first day I got him to step up and held him tight against my chest while talking softly to him. He stayed there for an hour, no struggling, he didnt want to be there but I didnt give him any other option. I can hold him and stroke him against my chest in a quiet room for as long as I like, but he too is flighty, will flap to my shoulder if I let him.... I dont let him. He now (3 weeks later) will dance about when he sees me, he longs for company. He bites like you wouldnt believe but knows that it wont stop me visiting so we play the trust game. He has a LOOOOOOONG way to go but I hope we will get there, eventually.

We are all here and willing to help just ask. I too can be PMd, MSNd or emailed. Feel free any time!

[selma]

Jen Please hang in there. I had no experience with birds whatsoever when my husband decided to get me a ringneck for company when he goes away. It took us four months to touch Bibou. And now he begs non-stop for a cuddle and scritches. He runs around in circles and screams until somebody strokes his head and then he makes the most adorable sounds. Sounds like hmmmm hooooo. i swear. It is the most wonderful feeling especially since we thought we had no hope of ever touching him. So please please be a bit more patient. It will be worth it in the end.

[tasha]

Hi Jen

In answer to your question no Indy was not tame in any way. It broke my heart when I brought him home thinking that I could hold him and pat him to find out that skin can bleed really fast with an IRN attached to it.

For the first two months I had to wear gloves to even change his water dish he would lash about and I was scared that he would hurt himself.

Now he is better I can take him out of his cage he will stand on my hand for a little while before running up to my shoulder.

When I talk to him it is like he knows and understands when I say "do you want mum" he walks to the edge of his cage and waits for me to pick him up I'm loving it.

Indy is about a year old he came from a pet shop and had never been handled, he was in the pet shop for seven months in a cage with another IRN so he didn't want to no me.

Things are getting better ever so slowly but they are getting better he has his moments.

Feel free to e-mail me if you would like

[Mikaela]

Jen,

You will get there with him, he may never be the snuggler you long for but he will become handleable. You NEED to assert yourself with him! You are boss, he does as you ask when you ask.

Im so sorry you see pics of my Datsun and think shes always loving. Pictures lie, they are a one sided story that I can manipulate as I please. I can assure you she can be a bitch... nippy, screaming, nasty... on her bad days but to be honest I don't dwell on them because every good day so drastically outweighs the bad ones.

Byndi has come so far, he is trying so hard and I know that it comes at a cost. It is hard work, no fun, exhausting both mentally and physically but you have been doing so well!

I have recently been in contact with an Olive Ringneck who had been handraised but not handled for a year and I was told he should be an aviary bird because he is vicious and self mutilates. He tore his abdomin open nd now wears a horrible collar to stop him inflicting any more damage on himself. I have nicknamed him Chucky Plucky.

Chucky is not fixed, but on the first day I got him to step up and held him tight against my chest while talking softly to him. He stayed there for an hour, no struggling, he didnt want to be there but I didnt give him any other option. I can hold him and stroke him against my chest in a quiet room for as long as I like, but he too is flighty, will flap to my shoulder if I let him.... I dont let him. He now (3 weeks later) will dance about when he sees me, he longs for company. He bites like you wouldnt believe but knows that it wont stop me visiting so we play the trust game. He has a LOOOOOOONG way to go but I hope we will get there, eventually.

We are all here and willing to help just ask. I too can be PMd, MSNd or emailed. Feel free any time!

Datsun and Baby are raised the same way, with a take no **** mom, they are some of the most tame babies here. Please, consider that and ASSERT yourself. Be mad at yourself, not the birdie because he trained you just fine. Time for the tables to turn.

If you are calm and know in your heart that bird is going to step up for you, he might. He you feel he never will, I assure you, he wont.

[Mazziemom]

Another thing to consider is the size of the cage, and the size of the cage door. Ok, I know that sounds odd but...

If he's nervous about your hands in his cage a very large cage would give him an area to retreat to while you do what must be done. I know it seems counter productive, but it does work, we do this a lot here. Just avoid eye contact while you do what you are doing, move slowly and fluidly, and talk softly while you do it. I always talk the nervous guys through everything I do...

"Its ok, I'm just wiping the spot of poop off your grate, look isn't that nice, and now I need to rub off that food you wiped on the bar..."

That kind of thing. I don't baby talk them, but I use a soft tone of voice and keep it almost musical.

The cage door is for YOU, the bigger the door, the easier it is for you to work in his cage and not frighten him. If your arm is trapped in a certain position by the door, you cant move in a fluid manner, and jerky movements may spook him.

Oh, and when Maz came here she was feral, nasty feral. I took a lot of bites in the first six months, but she got over it. Now she's my buttercup, my baby... and has been for a long long time.

Finally, try just letting him come out when he's good and ready. Make the room safe, open the door.. and leave. If you walk in and he's out of the cage, pretend not to notice. Just go about life as if he was still inside. He may very well be frightened of life outside the cage.. it can be spooky. If you act like its 100% normal he might start to understand that it is.

Athena