Saddleback ?

Moderator: Mods

madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by madas »

Some more saddlebacks of Europe (not Babu):

Image

Nothing more then a dom. pied turq violet cobalt. :) So for me the saddleback thing is solved. Your thoughts?
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Johan S »

Madas, I agree that the bird you posted is a violet turq dom. pied. However, is it the same thing as saddleback, or just a similar phenotype created by a combination? I suppose time will tell. I have always thought that it is a combination, but I'm hoping there is something more there. Would be nice to have something else to play with.
Recio
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:09 am
Location: France

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Recio »

Hi Johan,

I agree with Madas, but probably the parblue involved is not just turquoise but another parblue allele (saddle parblue?) with a specific distribution in the saddle area, as shown by Criskoi pics (labelled as turquoise dilute), and which is enhanced by the presence of dom pied (lack of melanocytes in the patched areas allowing an increase in psittacin expression).

Regards

Recio
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

G,Day Tienie , I can send you a simple Violet Emerold hen to test breed to your violet saddleback cock to, this will give you stunning babies , and good test results.
My new web site should be completed before the weekend , Hope it answers some of your theories. Feel free to use pictures from my web site on this forum
Note , There are only 5 diluate,s in Oz and they have never been mated to saddleback or Harlequin.
There are no SL Edge in Oz that im aware of ,so should have never been mated to saddlebacks or Harlequin .
From my Violet Saddleback hen ,I bred Tienies Violet Saddleback cock .,,.,From Phil Highlands Violet Saddleback Cock He breed his baby Violet Saddleback cock ,,Note both birds are mate to green Harlequins ,So no Opaline effecting these matings.
So i beleive No Opaline ,No SL Edge and No Dilute?
When you look at most pictures you will see most have no saddle,except people using there name to describe Turquoise Harlequins
P,S. I dont beleive there is Turquoise in Saddlebacks ,it doesnt act the same as my birds .
Deon beleives the essence of saddlebacks are in there richness of colour .
Phil and i have only bred 3 saddlebacks each we have only sold 1 each since 2009 , People that are selling saddlebacks are most likely only selling Turquoise Harlequins,If your interested in Saddlebacks from these dealers ask the Question are they bred from Turquoise or will they reproduce Turquoise as Saddlebacks Arent and Wont.
I beleive like Emerold they are simply a new par blue????????????
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Hi Chris,

Thanks for posting your thoughts/views on Saddleback. It helps a lot to hear from someone that has the saddlebacks.

you said:
There are no SL Edge in Oz that im aware of


We have edged here in OZ. Till last year i've been saying the same but there's some about.
Here's my Turquoise Edged.
pic is too large to post so click the picture link below
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/dftuqEdged.jpg
& turquoiseblue cinnamon edged x blue edged
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgepair.jpg

I have edged in violet, turquoise, blue, grey with and without cinnamon

I have paired the violet edged x blue pied this season unfortunately only 1 chick survived, looks like it's going to be a violet egded. no pied edged as yet.


Ben
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by trabots »

Ben, I had a couple of 'Dom' Edged birds around 10 years ago when they were known as 'fallows' and supposedly all cocks were split Cinnamon. You probably know the story. The image you just posted http://parakeet.me/irn/f/dftuqEdged.jpg is stunning however please try and get me interested as all I have ever seen is the 'lacewing' effect as being different. In my mind, why take away the lovely colours in the wing just to get the 'lacewing'? What other parts of the SL Edged bird are affected?
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

trabots wrote:Ben, I had a couple of 'Dom' Edged birds around 10 years ago when they were known as 'fallows' and supposedly all cocks were split Cinnamon. You probably know the story.
That's exactly right. it was also concluded wrongly that this fallow will only be present when cinnamon is also present in the birds genetic makeup. Clearly not the case.

Also, it is important to understand that once breeders that could identify this mutation gave up on working with it due to cinnamon connection other breeders always mistaken it for cinnamon and eliminated it from breeding.
At fault must be the hens :D because of thier phenotype is similar to df edged males , confusing the matter further.

I have a very good example;
Breeder friend has a pair of lavenders pic below bred from violet parents no cobalt:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/cinnamon.jpg

I thought surely he has a lavender hen x lilac male
i went to his place again and looked at the young chick's flights he is handfeeing from them and bingo edged

clearly breeders mistake edged for cinnamon.

Tiennie has a large collection of edged through most mutations.
He could post some pics for us.
here is his CHF blue Edged - add turquoise n violet/deep/dark to that and it'll rival best looking ringneck mutations IMO
Image

I personally don't mind lighter colors. there's beauty in them too.

Emerald is an average looking bird, nothing to rave about, however once combined with other mutations ...different story :shock:

Take white flights as a feature; we could work with in getting a combo that's dark body and white flights
(1st and last bird in the pic below)
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgez.jpg

I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by trabots »

Great response Ben. Cheers.
Chriskoi
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:23 am

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Chriskoi »

mcw-indianringnecks wrote: When you look at most pictures you will see most have no saddle,except people using there name to describe Turquoise Harlequins
P,S. I dont beleive there is Turquoise in Saddlebacks ,it doesnt act the same as my birds .
Sorry but when i look at this pic of your so called "saddleback" offspring i can't see a yellow saddle area too.

Image

So please can you explain it to us??? This bird is fitting the phenotype of the bird madas has posted.
The European type is showing the same ritchness in the yellow areas. Which in deed could be caused
by another Mutation involved. Remember the father of the European type is split opaline for sure.

greetings.

Chriskoi
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

saddleback is simply the wrong name for these birds
Attachments
35 SADDLEBACK VS  TURQUOISE HARLEQUIN_ underUV light.jpg
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Johan S »

mcw-indianringnecks wrote:saddleback is simply the wrong name for these birds
Hi Chris, are the above birds the same age?
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Johan S »

mcw-indianringnecks wrote:...
P,S. I dont beleive there is Turquoise in Saddlebacks ,it doesnt act the same as my birds .
...
I beleive like Emerold they are simply a new par blue????????????
Chris can you help clarify these two statements please. To me they seem a bit of a contradiction. First you say that saddleback and turquoise act differently. Seeing as turquoise acts like any blue locus allele, I'm not following why you would first say they don't act the same and then follow that by saying saddleback is a new parblue. Are they acting differently, or the same? Perhaps you are referring to a phenotypic similarity and a genetically different :?: But rather than me speculating, I'd rather await your response.
Chriskoi
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:23 am

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Chriskoi »

mcw-indianringnecks wrote:saddleback is simply the wrong name for these birds
thx for your detailed answer.

Same bird in both pics but photographed under different angel and different UV light.
saddleback muck
saddleback muck
Cheers.
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

same bird at 3mths & 8 mths.jpg
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Chris,

What i would love to see is the blues & violets etc non saddleback siblings, more specifically thier flights/wing stretched if possible.

IMO, it's the easy way to rule out Edged, dilute etc...

Bob also confirmed that no Turquoise was bred from his Saddleback, did not get an update from him about this breeding season.

Ben
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

The pic under uv has a saddleback on the left and turquoise harlequin on the right .
In Deons book from memory he says that the essence of saddleback lies in the intensity deepth or richness in there colour something along those lines.
Im rebuilding my new web site theres 40 odd pics on there about saddlebacks ,this site may use those photoes for there discussion ,Ill wait until then before entering further comments.I thought it would be complete today ,i was told by the end of the month
Carr.birds
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 pm
Location: Bloemfontein South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Carr.birds »

Chris

Thanks for sharing you experience and opinion with us. Forum members please give Chris an opportunity to share his point of view. Currently there is very little information available and this is the only way we can learn from a saddleback breeder. If you don’t agree with his statements and can’t proof your point with breeding results, simply keep quiet and don’t get involved in fights similar to Terry’s group.
I do own a lovely violet saddleback and you should know by now I do share my results and experience with all other Forum members. If all go according to plan next year’s results will be shared with you.
Ben thanks for all your input regarding sl edged. It is a lovely mutation and combination with other mutations result in awesome phenotypes.

Pics will be send tonight from home.

Tienie
Recio
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:09 am
Location: France

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Recio »

Carr.birds wrote:Chris

Thanks for sharing you experience and opinion with us. Forum members please give Chris an opportunity to share his point of view. Currently there is very little information available and this is the only way we can learn from a saddleback breeder. If you don’t agree with his statements and can’t proof your point with breeding results, simply keep quiet and don’t get involved in fights similar to Terry’s group.
I do own a lovely violet saddleback and you should know by now I do share my results and experience with all other Forum members. If all go according to plan next year’s results will be shared with you.
Ben thanks for all your input regarding sl edged. It is a lovely mutation and combination with other mutations result in awesome phenotypes.

Pics will be send tonight from home.

Tienie
Just to say thank you Tienie. Some keys to avoid "fighting" like in Terry's group:
1. Use smilies : half of the message is lost in our posts because we can not use our corporal language and this can be misunderstood by others :wink:
2. Avoid comments or reference to the person ... just comment on results. Ex: do not say "Your birds ..." but something like "In those birds ..."
3. Do not loose the oportunity to say : "I agree ...." even if thereafter you must add "but ... ".
4.Do not forget that we are all here for learning = we are all teachers and pupils at the same time.
5. Read your posts many times and correct your expressions to be fully understood. Try to look at your post from the point of view of the other person. Try to avoid expressions with many possible meanings (many of us are not english speaking people).
6. If you ever feel that somebody is atacking you ... do not quickly answer, read the post again and again, try to relax ... and answer 2-3 days later. You will avoid fire!!!

I know that this "code" is already being used by many of us. Thank you to all you.

Recio
Carr.birds
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 pm
Location: Bloemfontein South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Carr.birds »

Recio

Great, thanks for the tips/advice. We will all try to make everybody feel welcome and participate.

Tienie :D
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by trabots »

Recio and Tienie, great advise which I, as one half of most arguments (me against the rest) on Terry's forum, and final winner of a couple of major topics, hope to follow on this great forum. I know, "arrogance", ignore my short comings and digest the message. Now how about a quick lesson on how to use the smilies? I tried to drag them over and copy and paste, to no avail.

Chris, I am so glad you are now contributing. Surely you know of someone who has bred EmeraldTurquoise x Blue, ignoring any other mutations which may or may not have been involved?
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

Some people beleive you cant breed straight emerold turquoise. ,Although my old mate Gary has sold them,Maybey Mike or Recio can explain the genetics on this?
I know 2 that have breed Emerold Turquoise Cleartails 1 is a big breeder now suffering illness, so his records are non - usuable.
And Mike who has been posting under the emerold post ,,,,
His results support my thoughts and that of Wills {G,Day Willy ] That emerold is a par or new par blue ,the same as i beleive there is a new par blue in saddleback.
Willy once beleived there could be a number of unrecognized par blues?
Mikes results 2 Turquoise Cleartails 5 Emerold Cleartails to low a number to be possative ,But no Blue Cleartails and thats the key.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by sheyd »

trabots wrote:Now how about a quick lesson on how to use the smilies? I tried to drag them over and copy and paste, to no avail.
jumping in.. Willy the smilies only need to be clicked on to appear in your post- once you've finished writing click a smilie to end your sentence or place the cursor where you wish it to be (as if you were going to edit your finished sentence for example, and click on the smilie you'd like to use.
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by trabots »

Thanks Sheyd, so simple, I am always looking for the hardest solution.

Chris, g'day too,

If Emerald is Parblue

EmeraldBlue x TurquoiseBlue =

25% Blue
25% EmeraldBlue
25% TurquoiseBlue
25% EmeraldTurquoise
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

Thats the results id expect as well , but its been explained to me why it genetically doesnt work as expected, id like Mike or Recio to comment,
Attachments
17a turquoise emerald cleartail.JPG
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by madas »

mcw-indianringnecks wrote: That emerold is a par or new par blue ,the same as i beleive there is a new par blue in saddleback.
As Johan wrote here you (sorry here is must write "you" because Chris is believing :D ) are referring to a wrongly usage of the meaning "parblue". A parblue mutation is simply a mutation of the b-locus. If "saddleback" is a true parblue mutation you (meant generally) should get the same phenotype among the non pied offspring then breed to a normal blue or other Mutation of the b-locus. Means you (meant generally) will get non-pied "turquoise" looking offspring. But you (sorry here is must write "you" because Chris is believing :D ) state for years that this is not the case. So either "saddleback" isn't a parblue Mutation or the breeders of the "saddleback" hide the "turquoise" looking non-pied offspring.
Indian Ringneck Vic
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic »

Chriskoi wrote:
mcw-indianringnecks wrote:saddleback is simply the wrong name for these birds
thx for your detailed answer.

Same bird in both pics but photographed under different angel and different UV light.
saddleback_muck.jpg
Cheers.
Fantastic having worked with artificial lighting all my caree and have experience with u.v. lighting as well other stage lighting in Disco's and nightclubs I've aggonized over the value of using this medium for this purpose I know that I can give you the result you want purely by malnipulating the sauce and background lighting 10 out of 10 although I promised to stay unaminous on this forum I could'nt let this slip.
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

since 2009 when phil and i received our saddlebacks we have both breed 3 saddlebacks each , we have both sold only 1 bird each + 1 i gave to a friend for his birthday.Neither of us has breed any Turquoise looking birds , From the green series birds that we did produce [from saddleback ] . From there breeding results were No SL Edge ,No Turquoise No Dilutes and unfortunatley No Saddlebacks , I dont hide things. Pictures of every bird weve ever breed are on my new web site , Nest to what ever age that was possable.
There was 1 exception 1 Violetgreen Harlequin breed from saddleback was breed to a Turquoise Grey producing 4 Turquoise looking babies , But said to be unusually bright.[not in my control ].
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by madas »

mcw-indianringnecks wrote:since 2009 when phil and i received our saddlebacks we have both breed 3 saddlebacks each , we have both sold only 1 bird each + 1 i gave to a friend for his birthday.Neither of us has breed any Turquoise looking birds , From the green series birds that we did produce [from saddleback ] . From there breeding results were No SL Edge ,No Turquoise No Dilutes and unfortunatley No Saddlebacks , I dont hide things. Pictures of every bird weve ever breed are on my new web site , Nest to what ever age that was possable.
There was 1 exception 1 Violetgreen Harlequin breed from saddleback was breed to a Turquoise Grey producing 4 Turquoise looking babies , But said to be unusually bright.[not in my control ].
Yeah, but then you can't speak of a parblue mutation in the context of "saddleback". That's the Intention behind Johans and my Posts. ;)
btw: if i remember correct you are in close contact with Babu and perhaps you have adopted his point of view that saddleback is a new parblue mutation. But we all know Babu isn't interested in findings regarding new mutations as Lee made clear (the Dhani Topic). So don't believe every thing which is indoctrinated to you by other breeders.

So lets wait what your new website is showing in the saddleback section. :D

PS: Great to have you here. ;)
Last edited by madas on Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

But said to be unusually bright.[not in my control ].
If these bright birds were hens then we can not eliminate Sl Edged
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

As ive said for years i dont beleive Turquoise is involved.
So what else but a new par blue could be responsable for there richness of colour and yellow projessive colouring.
So far its beleived ive misheld information and used artifisual light to maluniplate photoes ..
I suppose its ok for people around the world to sell turquoise harlequins as saddlebacks ,, well why not just sell them as turquoise harlequins.
Sort of remember now why i dont post on Forums
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by madas »

mcw-indianringnecks wrote:As ive said for years i dont beleive Turquoise is involved.
Maybe it is a "turq" mutation of another locus but not the b-locus. If this is the truth you simply can't name it a parblue. ;)

parblue = any mutation resp. Multi allele of the b-locus
Chriskoi
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:23 am

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Chriskoi »

mcw-indianringnecks wrote: So what else but a new par blue could be responsable for there richness of colour and yellow projessive colouring.
I suppose its ok for people around the world to sell turquoise harlequins as saddlebacks ,, well why not just sell them as turquoise harlequins.
Hi,

i don't want to start the same fight as in the yahoo group. But please then answer this simple question:

Why do the "turq" dom. pieds breed in Europe and by Amaroo Avaries in OZ show the same richness of yellow color?

For the one from Europe i know for sure the bird was breed out of dom. pied green /blue /opaline x turq violet cobalt. The dom. pied
father is an import from the UK. Out of the stock of the late Mr. Smith who unfortunately passed away 2 or 3 years ago. The breeder
is Gerrit Wesseling from the Netherlands. So feel free to contact him.

greetings.
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

I cant explain it but theres no turquoise or opaline in our birds,thats the point of the forum, to help to do that.
When i breed DF Emerold i was aquised of being a liar as its genetically not possable to breed df emerold.
When Phil showed pics of his first saddleback nest ,they said dont buy saddlebacks they produce black eyed albinos.
I* love the idea of the Forum and your right we dont want to end up as the gen site did So simply im done .
If your happy buying turquoise harlequins as saddlebacks how am i to say otherwise, ive sold 1 saddleback in four years so obvisiouly its all about the money A.
Hopefully my web site will be complete buy the end of the month all i have to say will be on there +all the pictures i have,If your interested take a look , if anybody wants to use pictures from my site on this forum yous have my permission.
Best Wishes Chris
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Johan S »

Chris, I think you misunderstand the question posed to you by some of the members and it is causing unnecessary friction when you repeatedly get hammered by the same question in different ways. I don't think the intention here is to put you in a bad but, and if it is, everybody just needs to relax so that we can get to understand one another better. Most here is anxious about learning about the mutation, or combination of mutations, whichever it will prove to be and I am happy that you have joined. In this forum the word turquoise has been used very loosely to describe all parblues, like pastel of old, but also in the very formal sense as a single of multiple parblue alleles. I, for one, am unsure how you use the term. You say no turquoise is present in 'saddleback', yet you also say you believe it is a type of parblue. That is a very confusing standpoint.

I think what would clarify things is a simple yes/no answer to the follow question: Do you think that, given enough offspring, you will eventually breed a bird looking like this (ignore the opaline):
Image

Or this one:
Image

These are parblues for sure. And they display a saddle during their 'teenage years'. We are just trying to establish whether they are part of the saddleback mystery, or not.
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by madas »

mcw-indianringnecks wrote: I cant explain it but theres no turquoise or opaline in our birds,thats the point of the forum, to help to do that.
Ok. Hopefully we will find out. Tienie is doing a great testjob. So nice that you sold a "saddleback" to him. :)
mcw-indianringnecks wrote: When i breed DF Emerold i was aquised of being a liar as its genetically not possable to breed df emerold.
I think it wasn't a member of this forum. For sure it is possible when emerald is a parblue mutation which should be proved by the breeding results of Mikes cleartail violet cobalt x cleartail turq emerald breeding pair. But i would say lets wait for the offspring of the next season of the same pair. If he still gets no normal blue offspring then we could say emerald is a parblue.
mcw-indianringnecks wrote: When Phil showed pics of his first saddleback nest ,they said dont buy saddlebacks they produce black eyed albinos.
They were not wrong at all. If paired to another dom. pied they can produce homozyguos dom. pieds which look like albinos with black eyes. But same is true for non "saddleback" dom. pieds.
mcw-indianringnecks wrote: I* love the idea of the Forum and your right we dont want to end up as the gen site did So simply im done .
Oh come on. Willy was faced with the same fight at yahoo but he is still with us. And further more he never has given up and provided breeding and test results every year. So it is up to the owner resp. breeder of a new Mutation to prove or disprove the genetic makeup. Or find some one who is willing to do the job (Tienie or Deon or ...). We all know testing could only be done with a lot of aviary space.
mcw-indianringnecks wrote: Hopefully my web site will be complete buy the end of the month all i have to say will be on there +all the pictures i have,If your interested take a look , if anybody wants to use pictures from my site on this forum yous have my permission.
Best Wishes Chris
thx. hope we find some interesting stuff to develope our idea of the saddleback Makeup.

Cheers.
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Criskoi
For the one from Europe i know for sure the bird was breed out of dom. pied green /blue /opaline x turq violet cobalt.

do you happen to have a pic of the bird your referring to?
or is it the one Madas posted earlier?

Cheers

I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Indian Ringneck Vic
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic »

mcw-indianringnecks wrote:As ive said for years i dont beleive Turquoise is involved.
So what else but a new par blue could be responsable for there richness of colour and yellow projessive colouring.
So far its beleived ive misheld information and used artifisual light to maluniplate photoes ..
I suppose its ok for people around the world to sell turquoise harlequins as saddlebacks ,, well why not just sell them as turquoise harlequins.
Sort of remember now why i dont post on Forums
Chris I hope you have'nt misunderstood my earlier post it is not my intention to direct any comment at you or in relation to the information in your post. My comment is directed purely at the use of U.V.light in order to high-light feather characteristics of birds.I know you as well as most other forum members are in favour of this practice and thats fine however I consider it futile,for what it's worth I agree with your comments in regard to using public forums and I agree that people like you and I would be better keeping out of them have faith we are not alone sorry if I offended you.
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

Gratz the only picture i dont have for my web site is that showing change in colour from young to old of your type of saddleback , could you please post those pics to me .I beleive you have my email adress.
Gratz
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 2:58 am

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Gratz »

Image

Hi Chris

This is the only photo I have of the bird when it fledged.

Chris, and everyone reading this I will point out that I never stated that my bird is a Saddleback, I did mention that I purchased the bird as a Turquoise Blue Dom Pied, The question I was asking is what is the makeup of a Saddleback and how do you know if you have one

kind regards
Gratz
mcw-indianringnecks
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:44 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by mcw-indianringnecks »

Can you send me this baby pic + your first pic + a resent pic if possable to my email chris@mcw-indianringnecks.com.au its the only way i can save pictures
Thanks
Chris
Chriskoi
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:23 am

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Chriskoi »

This is the first clutch breed by GW from the Netherlands out of dom. pied green /opaline x turq cobalt violet:

Image

Image

Left opaline green and right some kind of "dom. pied". But what kind of mutation is the bird in the middle???
Don't tell me it's a dom. pied. My bet it is a opaline SL Edged green.

btw: all three birds were females.

greetings.
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Johan S »

If that bird in the middle is a hen, it could be cinnamon? Flight feathers look brownish and barb of the tail feather is very light. Just guessing here though.
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by madas »

Johan S wrote:If that bird in the middle is a hen, it could be cinnamon? Flight feathers look brownish and barb of the tail feather is very light. Just guessing here though.
Hi Johan,

do you mean "pur" cinnamon? Or cinnamon SL Edged?
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Could also be a cinnamon opaline hen?
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Johan S »

Sorry Madas, I meant to say carrying the cinnamon gene, not only cinnamon green, for which this bird is way too light. Probably cinnamon opaline like Ben suggested.
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by madas »

Johan S wrote:Sorry Madas, I meant to say carrying the cinnamon gene, not only cinnamon green, for which this bird is way too light. Probably cinnamon opaline like Ben suggested.
Hm, don't think it's a opaline cinnamon combo. I think such a bird should show the typical opaline pattern in the wings because cinnamon isn't able to remove them. Furthermore cinnamon isn't causing such light flight feathers. Here is a pic of nice cinnamon (left; unaltered) and a cinnamon opaline look a like (right; same pic as left but modified with Paint .Net):

ImageImage

Perhaps Tienie could comment on the bird in the middle. I think he has combined SL edged and opaline within the last years.
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by madas »

Johan S wrote:Sorry Madas, I meant to say carrying the cinnamon gene, not only cinnamon green, for which this bird is way too light. Probably cinnamon opaline like Ben suggested.
May be opaline cinnamon SL Edged green. :)
Carr.birds
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 pm
Location: Bloemfontein South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Carr.birds »

Stefan

I would go for cinnamon sl edged opaline or misty cinnamon sl edged opaline

Tienie
Carr.birds
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 pm
Location: Bloemfontein South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Carr.birds »

I am struggling with photobucket to load pics. Will try again tomorrow

Tienie
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Saddleback ?

Post by Johan S »

The only thing that concerns me is that the parent birds are then reported incorrectly. A hidden cinnamon gene in the cock bird could still pass through, but adding SL edged to that as well will be very hard to find. It means the green dom. pied / opaline is actually a green dom. pied SL edged / opaline / cinnamon. Isn't that a bit of a stretch? :?:

PS: @Madas, well done on some excellent paint.net skills! That cinnamon-opaline looks wonderful! :lol:
Post Reply