trabots wrote:It is my understanding that no mutation can 'undo' another mutation's action (Recio?). If that is so then a SF Pied CHCT would still have a clear head and tail but with melanin elimination (luecism) in random areas where there is still extant melanin ie: on the back and chest only of a CHCT. A DF Pied CHCT would essentially be a not quite clear bird hard to distinguish from a DF Pied.
I totally agree with your statement. Combos of pallid and rec. pied have shown that the resulting phenotpye is build by a completely White resp. yellow head and a pied Body and flights showing a pied pattern within the greyish pallid pattern.
Same goes for pallid opaline Combos. The head is still White resp. yellow. And i think we will see the same for the males of an opaline cleartail Combo.
Ring0Neck wrote:A local breeder just advertised a Blue Reverse Pied (aka DF Pied)
I have not asked yet the parents but i assume this bird is a df pied.
It very much resembles my "white" bird.
I don't think it is a df dom. pied because the feets are to light. They look like the feets of a cleartail or rec. pied. If you compare the pics of Chris WHipps df dom. pied blue you can clearly see a difference.
So i am still with a cleartail dom. pied Combo. How old is the bird? Male or female?
So i am still with a cleartail dom. pied Combo. How old is the bird? Male or female?
madas
I think it's 2012. don't remember the sex.
Yes, limited pics available of the DF pied we have seen showed darker feet/nails.
I assumed Df pied by looking at breeder's website, http://www.parraweenaaviaries.com.au/#!ringnecks/c1nc3
Pics of the parents?? both pied, no other pieds on the website other then the white 1 which i assume is offspring of.
(i emailed the breeder, hope we get a reply)
Pic Chris has on his website ATM; the df pied is bred from saddleback not pure pieds.
so that bird could carry an additional or saddleback mutation to get the dark feet/nails. http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/w ... ghland.jpg
I'm an Explorer 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
trabots wrote:It is my understanding that no mutation can 'undo' another mutation's action (Recio?). If that is so then a SF Pied CHCT would still have a clear head and tail but with melanin elimination (luecism) in random areas where there is still extant melanin ie: on the back and chest only of a CHCT. A DF Pied CHCT would essentially be a not quite clear bird hard to distinguish from a DF Pied.
I totally agree with your statement. Combos of pallid and rec. pied have shown that the resulting phenotpye is build by a completely White resp. yellow head and a pied Body and flights showing a pied pattern within the greyish pallid pattern.
Same goes for pallid opaline Combos. The head is still White resp. yellow. And i think we will see the same for the males of an opaline cleartail Combo.
madas
Is this pic of a mauve opaline cleartail not a cock bird?
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Molossus
The offspring speaks for itself. Madas it seems got it right with the CT pied, it is the most logical explanation however still not certain another mutation like edged is not the cause to whitten the bird. thus far results point to CT pied.
Tiennie, I was lucky enough the pair went down again and hope the second clutch to be more kind this time round.
I hope the hen is split turquoise, i think it'll be a nice bird Turq Ct Pied...
should see turq. soon on the 2 chicks soon if she's split turq.
I'm an Explorer 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Ring0Neck wrote: think it'll be a nice bird Turq Ct Pied...
Looking at the mother, I'd reckon the turq CT dom. pied will look like a creamino. I think the effect could be very nice if you manage to track down some dom. pieds that are poorly marked, to leave some melanin in place. The yellow wings with the blotches of blue will be magnificent.
Obviously I queried Ron about the Pied being split CHCT however it wasn't sold to him as that. He also says it has very small dark patches, just like a DF Pied.
As I mentioned previously, back to the drawing board with my "white" pied.
Bred 4 young: 1 blue, 1 violet blue, grey-green & 1 blue whwt (no pieds)
perfect ratio of 2 split whwts
Mick has bred the Cinnamon Pied
I think we can eliminate Cinnamon looking at his bird it does not allow color to come through but evens out throughout. The
The pied cocks from JS and GB and others that purchased pieds early on from the line that had come from pied opaline hen, some of the new owners have now proven the presence of the opaline colour gene in their pied cocks, is there not the probability that there is discarded cock birds that were non pied but possible carriers of the opaline gene are floating around. How long have pieds been getting paired up with HT birds here in Australia ? Seems an avenue not thought of till now, yet Tiene indicates the grey emerald dominant pied/cleartail is. Was this bird one exported from Australia ?
The pied cocks from JS and GB and others that purchased pieds early on from the line that had come from pied opaline hen, some of the new owners have now proven the presence of the opaline colour gene in their pied cocks, is there not the probability that there is discarded cock birds that were non pied but possible carriers of the opaline gene are floating around.
What combo are you thinking of? Pied Opaline CT? my "white" bird is a male.
The parents of my bird would have had to be opaline split or visual + pied/CT X opaline CT hen - unlikely.
How long have pieds been getting paired up with HT birds here in Australia ? Seems an avenue not thought of till now, yet Tiene indicates the grey emerald dominant pied/cleartail is. Was this bird one exported from Australia ?
Many breeders do look out for Opaline offspring with little success.
I had a Turq.Blue Pied ck from JS and he did tell me , possible split opaline, so yes some are out there.
I'm an Explorer 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
If you had a known cock sf dom blue pied / ht what would you pair with it Ben, is there known pied HT birds that are known to be for certain that combination? If so any pics or earlier posts about them.
bennjamin wrote:Seems an avenue not thought of till now, yet Tiene indicates the grey emerald dominant pied/cleartail is. Was this bird one exported from Australia ?
Yes, that bird was exported to SA and is without a doubt one of my favourite ringnecks in the country. As for the recessive mutations in dom. pieds, I'm not surprised. One, Oz is a closed country so the gene pool will eventually get more and more of these mutations floating around, and I'd be very surprised to find too many clean emeralds in Oz. Most people will prefer to take their first emerald and pair it to a blue CT than a normal blue, for example. I'd do the same.
Johan and Recio ( if your availible ) is it possible that the dom pied in Australia is actually the same mutation as the spangle in the budgie this theory has been air'd in Deon's book and is widely speculated here in Aus amongst some of our long term IRN breeders there are simularities when you look at these colour morphs in budgies and thier was thought to be another seriers that was particularly phenotypical to another mutation being the dilute or citron this in the DF is identical to the spangle budgie the late JS worked on these birds without success for years I often wonder if his citron was not a citron tho phenotyple to dilute however it may have been not genotypical and may well been a spangle your thoughts would be appreciated. Deon does show pics and illustrations of feathers that in my opinion go a long way to supporting this theory.
molossus wrote:Willy I have experienced the exact opposite...
I bred two birds that appear cleartails from
an emerald dom pied cock(the famous first grey emerald bred in Oz) .. not supposed to be /cleartail.
to a Dark Green hen of unknown origin(I now suspect /cleartail)
It could be that some of the dom pieds in circulation also carry the cleartail gene ..or is there something more mysterious at work?
Molossus did you breeding only CT birds & no pieds from your pair?
My pair did not throw any pieds out of 4 chicks but 1 CT
Also, I spoke to Ron re his "white" bird he bred.
He has a grey pied (from Chris) and was told poss. split CT
He said that the young chick has dark red eyes and some colored feathers which confirms CT Pied
the only other chick in that nest was a normal parblue.
So with above cleared up it makes more sense that my "white" bird is in also a CT Pied.
1 out of 4 chicks would be an acceptable ratio for a CT X /CT pairing
I'm an Explorer 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
I think the effect could be very nice if you manage to track down some dom. pieds that are poorly marked, to leave some melanin in place. The yellow wings with the blotches of blue will be magnificent.
