American Violet? What is she?

[sheyd]

Is American Violet- (strain 2?) the correct term to use when a sfVioletblue already looks Violet with just one copy of Violet?

if so, would you say that this bird is an American Violet?

young Violetblue Pallid hen


Can I expect the same colour/shade of sf 'violet' in her offspring? Or is the Pallid* mutation making it look different to how it would normally look without it?

cheers.

*I realize that Pallid washes out the overall colour making for a duller appearance, though are some places pallid doesn't touch- the rump being one, where you can clearly see the depth/shade of the base colour. Though would this look different if there were no Pallid involved? I am guessing time will tell...

[prodigy]

Hi Chocobo,

My American Violet strain below



regards,

Peter

[madas]

Is American Violet- (strain 2?) the correct term to use when a sfVioletblue already looks Violet with just one copy of Violet?

if so, would you say that this bird is an American Violet?

young Violetblue Pallid hen


Can I expect the same colour/shade of sf 'violet' in her offspring? Or is the Pallid* mutation making it look different to how it would normally look without it?

cheers.

*I realize that Pallid washes out the overall colour making for a duller appearance, though are some places pallid doesn't touch- the rump being one, where you can clearly see the depth/shade of the base colour. Though would this look different if there were no Pallid involved? I am guessing time will tell...

For my eyes this bird is to dark and greyish for a normal pallid violet. It is at least a pallid cobalt violet or violet(df) blue.

madas

[Carr.birds]

Chocobo, Peter and Stefan

sf violet blue (American line, bred from df violet blue hen)


df violet blue (American imported cock -owner Hugo Niebuhr)


Peter from what line is your American violet blue cock - Deon Smith?

Tienie

[prodigy]

100% spot on Tienie !

[sheyd]

Hi Chocobo,

My American Violet strain below



regards,

Peter

Hmm..I thought the American Violet strain was the one that looked 'violet' in sf- obviously not, unless what the eye sees is different to what this camera gives-
Thanks for the picture

[sheyd]

Is American Violet- (strain 2?) the correct term to use when a sfVioletblue already looks Violet with just one copy of Violet?

if so, would you say that this bird is an American Violet?

young Violetblue Pallid hen


Can I expect the same colour/shade of sf 'violet' in her offspring? Or is the Pallid* mutation making it look different to how it would normally look without it?

cheers.

*I realize that Pallid washes out the overall colour making for a duller appearance, though are some places pallid doesn't touch- the rump being one, where you can clearly see the depth/shade of the base colour. Though would this look different if there were no Pallid involved? I am guessing time will tell...

For my eyes this bird is to dark and greyish for a normal pallid violet. It is at least a pallid cobalt violet or violet(df) blue.

madas

I bought her as a sfVioletblue Pallid- I know she is sf (only one Violet parent) I don't have a real good shot of her parents- and I can't quite remember their colours accurately- but I 'feel' the hen of my bird was roughly the same shade- but obviously darker without the Pallid- but could be wrong there....the cock bird looked like a Blue Pallid- don't know if he had anything else, as I wasn't specifically looking at him. (I don't think he was a Cobalt as the breeder would have known if he was)

[sheyd]

Chocobo, Peter and Stefan

sf violet blue (American line, bred from df violet blue hen)


df violet blue (American imported cock -owner Hugo Niebuhr)


Peter from what line is your American violet blue cock - Deon Smith?

Tienie

Thanks Tienie, I've established that my bird is not an American Violet- she is not the right shade.

[sheyd]

She already looks 'violet' in sf, not unlike these birds in these threads (look for the sfviolets posted by Johan)
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 26&t=15386
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 26&t=16519

would running her through the filters give us an explanation? I'm not sure how they work.

[Ring0Neck]

You can do it yourself the instructions i've written in another thread:

Thinking of UV, i played around with this program & I think i stumbled upon something interesting.
I have used: Paint.net (a free program) and changed the settings to: Hue=154, Saturation=150 (see first pic)
I am sure these settings are not the ideal settings but it's a start.
Conclusion: Deep as well as Dark (Cobalts) birds show a high red,violets a rusty orange.
The most intresting part is the green normal birds appear with no red at all, the deep green birds however show a distinctive red through them.
......
Anyone can try this and fine tune it.

[sheyd]

You can do it yourself the instructions i've written in another thread:

Thinking of UV, i played around with this program & I think i stumbled upon something interesting.
I have used: Paint.net (a free program) and changed the settings to: Hue=154, Saturation=150 (see first pic)
I am sure these settings are not the ideal settings but it's a start.
Conclusion: Deep as well as Dark (Cobalts) birds show a high red,violets a rusty orange.
The most intresting part is the green normal birds appear with no red at all, the deep green birds however show a distinctive red through them.
......
Anyone can try this and fine tune it.

Sorry, I don't know how to interpret the results for this bird.

[prodigy]

Hi Chocobo,

My American Violet strain below



regards,

Peter

Hmm..I thought the American Violet strain was the one that looked 'violet' in sf- obviously not, unless what the eye sees is different to what this camera gives-
Thanks for the picture

Hi Chocobo,

The photo was taken with the flash on with my Galaxy 3s cellphone

I think it might be time to buy the 24 mega pixel camera I have had my eye on and get some decent pictures to post

[sheyd]

haha, yeah if your pics aren't what the eye sees, then it might be time for a new camera Peter

[Johan S]

Hmm..I thought the American Violet strain was the one that looked 'violet' in sf- obviously not, unless what the eye sees is different to what this camera gives-
Thanks for the picture

Shey, it is very hard to capture a violet bird in a picture to look violet. They often turn out more blue, esp. with red and/or green in the background. The white balancing settings on the camera needs to be spot on. The pics that Tienie posted are a good representation of the actual colour for violet in brighter light. Now also take into account certain LCD displays are much better at displaying true colour than others.

Here is another, on an overcast day a few hours before sunset (always take light into account when interpreting the photo)


Notice in the SF that Tienie posted that the light conditions are brighter than in the pic I composed, and as such the bird appears a bit more blue. You'll also notice the SF cobalt SF violet is extremely similar to the DF violet Tienie posted. Once again, consider the conditions; sunny vs overcast.

[Ring0Neck]

Shey, it is very hard to capture a violet bird in a picture to look violet...

just on that...
I took this pic at sunset (sun behind me and bushes) but it greatly affected the outcome, the shadows..
Blue looks like an opaline without the dark head, violet pallid-> more greyish. not the best outcome
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/c/lghtcond.jpg

[sheyd]

Thankyou- that makes sense Johan.

The first pic was taken on an overcast day (as can be observed by the sky) a couple of days ago, and the second was taken on a sunny morning in the well shaded aviary a few weeks ago.

Q: When I looked at the birds posted on this thread using paint.net, Peter's looks bright red while the sfViolet (posted by Tienie) looks bright orange- my bird looks in between orange and red- so I have no idea.

[sheyd]

Shey, it is very hard to capture a violet bird in a picture to look violet...

just on that...
I took this pic at sunset (sun behind me and bushes) but it greatly affected the outcome, the shadows..
Blue looks like an opaline without the dark head, violet pallid-> more greyish. not the best outcome
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/c/lghtcond.jpg

Yeah, I get that- the colour depicted in both of the photos on this thread is as close as I can get it to the actual colour you see with your eye- she is noticeably violet in colour in real life.- she looks very much like the first pic Johan posted on here with the sfViolet in the compliation shot- only slightly paler (obviously)

So, is she an American Violet then?

[Ring0Neck]

Your bird is violet and hue/sat shows that in pallid will be slightly brighter, it could a be DF since it shows so much of the violet or you captured it really well.
I'd say yes it is the original american violet, although in pallid you can never be sure.


Here's another shot of same birds, same time, better outcome
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/pastel_violet_ ... tLaces.jpg

[Johan S]

Q: When I looked at the birds posted on this thread using paint.net, Peter's looks bright red while the sfViolet (posted by Tienie) looks bright orange- my bird looks in between orange and red- so I have no idea.

A: Because the filters will never work correctly (or rather give a comparable output that is fair) if the input pictures aren't calibrated to an agreed upon specification. Willy and Zane has gotten closest when they spoke about fixed lighting conditions in a suitable studio with known background and lighting. One day I might write a topic on it.

[madas]

Johan I surprised at the extent of grey in your sf D df V. I was hoping to see an extremely blue-ish df Violet.
My question to the violet breeders ... is it norm for the sd D to give the bird a grey-ish hue in df Violet?
can we see a range of breeders put up pics of sf D df Violets for evaluation of phenotype range?

Hi Lee,

the greyish hue isn't only visible in a violet(df)darkblue. Same is true for violet darkblue or violet(df)blue.
And that's why the 'deep' could be a very intersting mutation. ;)

madas

[sheyd]

Your bird is violet and hue/sat shows that in pallid will be slightly brighter, it could a be DF since it shows so much of the violet or you captured it really well.

Thanks, I think I captured it well too - she is only sf

[sheyd]

Johan- thanks again- it really is logical, but slightly disappointing at the same time that one can not rely on a system that could clearly work- but won't unless the conditions are idea in every situation.

[Johan S]

Johan I surprised at the extent of grey in your sf D df V. I was hoping to see an extremely blue-ish df Violet.
My question to the violet breeders ... is it norm for the sd D to give the bird a grey-ish hue in df Violet?
can we see a range of breeders put up pics of sf D df Violets for evaluation of phenotype range?

You must have missed the part where I mentioned taking the light conditions into account. If you ask me nicely, I'll look for a pic in brighter light.

[madas]

Johan I surprised at the extent of grey in your sf D df V. I was hoping to see an extremely blue-ish df Violet.
My question to the violet breeders ... is it norm for the sd D to give the bird a grey-ish hue in df Violet?
can we see a range of breeders put up pics of sf D df Violets for evaluation of phenotype range?

You must have missed the part where I mentioned taking the light conditions into account. If you ask me nicely, I'll look for a pic in brighter light.

Johan can you please post the pics in brighter light? Nice enough?

[sheyd]

I did my own experiment-

Full cloud cover, partial cloud cover and sunny (or no cloud cover) respectively- all taken just before 12 noon, AEST. We have a cyclone of the coast- was perfect conditions to get the shots in all the different lightning conditions.




Johan, I too would be interested in some shots in brighter conditons

[Johan S]

Excellent demonstration, Shey!

Since everyone is asking so nicely, here is another family shot at the back of the aviary.

[sheyd]

Thanks Johan

Just out of interest- the picture above, was it overcast when it was taken?
sfDark-dfViolet, sfDark-sfViolet, sfViolet?
Thanks for the pic (:

[sheyd]

Ben, I'd be interested in some shots of your Pallid to compare to mine... (pretty please)

[Ring0Neck]

Chocobo

I sold most of my pallids a few days ago. I only kept deep blue & indigo pallids
Here's an older pic

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/violet_lacewing.jpg
cloudy afternoon

[sheyd]

I was thinking about this, and because it is so hard to try and 'visualize' colours in pictures as to what they really are in real life, how about we use a colour chart? We could use the head, central tail feathers or the rump as areas of colour identification/information.

So, looking at my bird (rump area) in the photos she appears as a 31E but in reallife she is a 32E

http://www.empiricalzeal.com/wp-content ... art-4x.png

[sheyd]

ah thanks Ben- just saw your post.
No worries

[Johan S]

Thanks Johan

Just out of interest- the picture above, was it overcast when it was taken?
sfDark-dfViolet, sfDark-sfViolet, sfViolet?
Thanks for the pic (:

Shey, yes to all questions.

[sheyd]

Hi all,

update:

I visited the breeder of my Pallid yesterday, and got a good look at my bird's mother who I now believe to be a Dark Violet Blue.
The breeder had originally thought her bird was a DF Violet, but when she had 3 Blues and one 'violet' (all Pallids) that idea went out the window. I also got to see this bird next to a Dark Blue- and the intensity of the darkness of colour was comparable.

So I conclude that my bird is also possible Dark (would explain her colour depth), but until she breds it is yet to be proven. The original parent bird is paired with a Violet Blue Pallid - should be some interesting results (combined with Pallid for the hens) this season. Will keep everyone updated on the breeder's results.- but for now I'm happy that finally I have a possible explanation for my birds colouring.


PS Mada's looks as though you might've been right