Emerald inheritance

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Wed May 01, 2013 9:32 pm

Hi Ben, Split pied or WHWT ?

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Wed May 01, 2013 9:56 pm

Hi Peter,
Hen never bred anything other then green n grey green birds.
I doubt it is split CT; & pied we don't really have reccessive pieds in Oz.
I wish though

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Wed May 01, 2013 10:06 pm

Very light nails then, very interesting

McmillanBirds · Post by **McmillanBirds** » Thu May 02, 2013 12:46 am

Sorry to butt in, but with regards to the nails, I have noticed that with some of my older birds the nails seem to lighten marginally.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu May 02, 2013 5:53 am

I find interesting the fact that Chris's Turquoise Emerald has light nails.
unless the pic was edited which would defeat the purpouse.

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Thu May 02, 2013 6:39 am

prodigy wrote:

I all, I'm back and dropped a bird off at Peter yesterday. Now I read here that I was supposed to have a look at a bird. Is this the bird in question?

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Thu May 02, 2013 4:56 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:Pics taken with Cannon, last one with flash.
Eyes seem normal to me.
Peter you can download the pics and zoom in for closer look

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/grnha.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/grbk.jpg

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/grhflsh.jpg

I have a mature Wildtype Green hen - yours does not look like mine- I just can't quite put my finger on it...

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Thu May 02, 2013 9:52 pm

That's the one Johan

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu May 02, 2013 10:18 pm

Looking closly at the head of this emerald grey CT is telling me this:
Emerald is not a parblue mutation. why?
indigo & turquoise Ct birds have a yellowish head
This Emerald has a color throughout his body the same as the head color.
Thoughts?
http://www.ourringnecks.com/apps/photos ... =156004239

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Thu May 02, 2013 10:25 pm

That bird is a hen.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu May 02, 2013 10:32 pm

Good point Willy.
Here's a bunch of young turq. Ct - does not specify the gender though.
http://www.ourringnecks.com/apps/photos ... =148754618
unless all cockbirds we can see eveyone of them showing yellow in the head which will increase as they age.

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:33 am

Here is a young EmeraldBlue CHCT of Chris' which doiesn't have a body coloured head

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Fri May 03, 2013 11:08 pm

Look at the nails on this DF Emerald (love that blue sheen on the bird as well)

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Fri May 03, 2013 11:45 pm

molossus wrote:Shady hi,
Dont put your finger on it..she may bite it if she isnt tame.

yeah, that'd be right..get bitten enough here without adding another one to it!

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Sat May 04, 2013 5:36 pm

Very interesting that the df Emerald looks to have reduced psitticin and is bluer than a 'sf Emerald' or EmeraldBlue. The other Parblues are greener in df form than the ParblueBlues.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Sun May 05, 2013 2:00 am

trabots wrote:Very interesting that the df Emerald looks to have reduced psitticin and is bluer than a 'sf Emerald' or EmeraldBlue. The other Parblues are greener in df form than the ParblueBlues.

2 df turquoise hens :
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/dfturquoise.jpg
father of above hens in Sf SL Edged Turquoise df
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edge_dfTurq1.jpg

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Sun May 05, 2013 4:40 am

anyone else find it interesting that a Wildtype Green shows "emerald" coloured patches when put under the filters?

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Sun May 05, 2013 4:50 am

That is normal.
Filters show a particular color into a different dimension (diff color) that can help us to identify different shades of blue/cobalt/violet and even that changes color at times due to amount of light - turquoise also can give certain parts looking like emerald.
You'll need to distinguish these differences and understand where they come from & conclude for yourself the result.
Hence filters are not 100% accurate but it can help if used wisely.

Cheers
Ben

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Sun May 05, 2013 4:54 am

yeah, no- wasn't thinking of anything special- just find it interesting is all

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Sun May 05, 2013 7:31 am

prodigy wrote:Look at the nails on this DF Emerald (love that blue sheen on the bird as well)

Hmmm, this pic of the same bird from the front, shows a deep green more so then blue

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Sun May 05, 2013 4:18 pm

Thought I was going mad after looking at the pics for 3 weeks, Ben also notice the very RED tail feather under the filter in the first Pic (not that we can see the whole tail) with its back to us. Also something I noticed on the Deeps.

Willy how much have you experimented with the deep greens and emerald if you don't mind me asking?

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Sun May 05, 2013 5:00 pm

I have bred a couple of Deep Blue 'Emeralds'. I have mentioned this before with no comment received, the Deep Blue Emerald' has a consistent colour like the 'Emerald'. The Violet Blue 'Emerald' on the other hand leaves the flights and tail basically violet in colour with the top of the bird only affected by the 'Emerald'. I understand the Dark Blue 'Emerald' is like the Deep Blue in this regard. Anyone have a pic?

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Sun May 05, 2013 5:21 pm

trabots wrote: I understand the Dark Blue 'Emerald' is like the Deep Blue in this regard. Anyone have a pic?

http://www.ourringnecks.com/apps/photos ... =172255562

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Sun May 05, 2013 6:15 pm

I think it is a parblue muation- look at what it does to this mature Cleartail cock:
http://www.ourringnecks.com/apps/photos ... =174401041
more pics of it on her FB page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Our-Ringn ... 6343586027
Willy- note this bird has the same 'wash' as your Emerald Violetblue hen or should that be VioletEmeraldBlue hen?!

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Sun May 05, 2013 8:59 pm

What a ripper of a bird. I was wondering if it was an IndigoBlue Violet CHCT but couldn't see any other psitticin. Now that I know it all makes sense when I look at my Violet Blue 'Emerald'. I am still betting on Emerald being Parblue.

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Sun May 05, 2013 9:07 pm

Thanks Willy, thanks Shey, very insightful

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Mon May 06, 2013 5:19 am

trabots wrote:... I am still betting on Emerald being Parblue.

When i look at this bird makes me think otherwise, nothing but unique splendour

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:14 pm

trabots wrote:I am still betting on Emerald being Parblue.

You and me both

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:15 pm

Ben, I'm not even close at believing that bird's colour is real. (also, it looks like it's a Pied of some description)

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:35 pm

I had a play with the image and got it to how I believe the bird would look in real life- and I believe the bird is an Emerald (Blue) Pied which is pretty...don't know why the image had to be doctored?

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:40 pm

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Mon May 06, 2013 4:44 pm

The above images from my earlier post were moved in Photobucket. All my images (not all mine) are available at www.photobucket.com, enter 'Tarbots images' in search. I don't know why it lists 43 images but when I log in there are 51???

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Mon May 06, 2013 6:15 pm

don't know why the image had to be doctored?

Shey
This bird is on Chris's website called Clear Flight and bred by Babu - i doubt the bird in the pic would be edited

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Mon May 06, 2013 6:35 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:
don't know why the image had to be doctored?

Shey
This bird is on Chris's website called Clear Flight and bred by Babu - i doubt the bird in the pic would be edited

noticed that (Babu's name) when I saved the file- doesn't make the bird's colour in that pic, anymore real imo.

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:29 pm

sheyd wrote:Ben, I'm not even close at believing that bird's colour is real. (also, it looks like it's a Pied of some description)

Its not you can see that the color has been messed with

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Tue May 07, 2013 12:20 am

The 1st pic is an 'infamous' 'patched Emerald' alongside an 'Emerald' Blue. It did not flouresce at fledging but was the same colour as an 'Emerald'Blue. The 2nd pic is the 2 'patched Emeralds' at 9mo. The 3rd pic is their 21mo old sibling, a Violet ParblueBlue of some kind. The parents are an 'Emerald' Blue x Deep Violet Blue. The parent cock had no Turquoise or Indigo in its parents. The parent hen had a Deep Violet TurquoiseBlue mother. The 2 younger birds are colouring like my df Turquoise birds do?? The older Violet Blue bird had a lot more patching at 1st moult but now looks like an light IndigoBlue Violet?? It had no patching at fledging however it was darker than a Violet Blue but not as dark as its Deep Violet Blue mother, I did not know what it was at the time. It also did not flouresce. The last pic is of the parents and the previous years' family with the 'patched' Violet Blue bird at the top along with its Deep Blue and Deep 'Emerald' Blue siblings. What the ???

So we have 3 unexpected young. Some on this forum thought that the father must have been Green series and split for Turquoise or Indigo. If the 'Emerald' father is a Green series then it could be so split, but then why were several Blues bred also? It couldn't be split for Parblue as well as being split for Blue.

I have put the 'patched' Violet Blue to a Blue for this year and plan to breed the other 2 together next year just to see what happens. What happens if a normal 'Emerald' Blue is bred? In any event I am totally baffled. What do you reckon?

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Tue May 07, 2013 4:45 am

The same patched Violet during the last moult 16mo. She is losing the psitticin!

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Tue May 07, 2013 4:54 am

I suppose, but then Deep and Dark, both structural mutations affect the whole bird in a consistent way, like in a normal Emerald. Certainly interesting. I have mentioned this before that Deep may be involved somehow. I would be in a rare group which has bred Deep to Emerald so far.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Tue May 07, 2013 6:04 am

Willy,

The parent hen had a Deep Violet TurquoiseBlue mother.

It seems to be the only logical lead (with a logical dead end).

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Tue May 07, 2013 6:54 am

trabots wrote:I have put the 'patched' Violet Blue to a Blue for this year and plan to breed the other 2 together next year just to see what happens. What happens if a normal 'Emerald' Blue is bred? In any event I am totally baffled. What do you reckon?

I'm stumped. Will have to give this some thought, but the results are confusing. Just to clarify, there was zero chance of eggs being moved to foster and an accidental slip up occurred? I'm sure it's not the case, otherwise you wouldn't have raised this, but let's get it out of the way in any case.

Otherwise, maybe the emerald of the cock is masking the parblue and perhaps it is an emerald parblue, say emerald TurquoiseBlue? I'm just throwing ideas around. I figured that parblue would mostly mask emerald, not the other way around.

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Tue May 07, 2013 11:57 am

[quote="trabots"] The 3rd pic is their 21mo old sibling, a Violet ParblueBlue of some kind.

Interesting bird this bird 3 as the as it shows up as a violet but the Parblue is showing up as green under the filters and not parblue.

thoughts anyone ?

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Tue May 07, 2013 4:41 pm

Johan, my initial thoughts exactly. I do foster out eggs however this was the second clutch for the season and these eggs stayed in the box without question. The previous year they had one clutch which stayed in the box being the 1st year for the hen, and a darker Violet with patches resulted.

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Tue May 07, 2013 5:56 pm

Interesting bird this bird 3 as the as it shows up as a violet but the Parblue is showing up as green under the filters and not parblue.

thoughts anyone ?

I had a look and it didn't show up as wildtype Green on mine- but a light purple colour which indicates a lighter green phenotype than what we currently see in the Wildtype Green birds...

Anyone know anything about Leaky Mutations/genes? That is the only thing I can come up with.

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Wed May 08, 2013 2:23 am

Does anybody have a picture of specifically an IndigoBlue misty or an IndigoBlue deep misty? Or any other indigo (my meaning here being either hetero-/homozygous indigo) combined with misty and possibly a structural mutation?

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu May 09, 2013 6:40 am

We don't have Misty in OZ, might be some around but i'm not aware of any, so maybe SA boys can help !?
--------------------

I had a long (10sec) look at this pic & it struck me
This photo might just be the indicator telling us...
Emerald is a Parblue mutation.. hmmm

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Thu May 09, 2013 2:55 pm

Ring0Neck wrote: --------------------
I had a long (10sec) look at this pic & it struck me
This photo might just be the indicator telling us...
Emerald is a Parblue mutation.. hmmm
[/color]

Exactly

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu May 09, 2013 7:58 pm

Shey

Nothing is "Exactly"
Untill a mutation has been proven it is only assumed/believed.
I believe 80% as Emerald being a parblue mutation but i want 100% and just because some say.. won't cut it for me. ;)

I guess i like going against the trend - I'm a contrarian person ! should see the way i trade the stocks

As they say... question everything !

sheyd · Post by **sheyd** » Thu May 09, 2013 8:44 pm

no, not until 'proven' but let's look- Albino (Blue Ino), Lutino (Green Ino), Creamino (Turquoiseblue Ino) and......'Aqua-Ino' ("emeraldblue Ino") it is reasonable to think that it could be a parblue

and especially so after seeing Raelene's Violetblue Cleartail Emerald cock.

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Thu May 09, 2013 10:05 pm

I'm a contrarian person !

Hey Ben, that's my job mate.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu May 09, 2013 10:30 pm

trabots wrote:
I'm a contrarian person !
Hey Ben, that's my job mate.

Indeed you are !

We have more contrarians on this forum than we think .

Anyone else identifies himself as a contrarian? i can think of 1 more at least.