Identification needed please- additional information added

[sheyd]

*Posted with permission from the owner of the bird*

An IRN hen was posted on a fb group that looks like a very pale Cinnamon Blue- it has brownish tinges to it's wings and tail but the body colour of it looks a bit too pale to be Cinnamon Blue alone.

Some people have suggested that it is also a Pallid, but it lacks the wing markings of a Pallid...

What colour does everyone think she is?

Much appreciated!

comments from the bird's owner: (in quotes)

She is/was actually that white that she was sold to me as an Albino... Only brought her as the dark feather in each wing intrigued me..I brought her near 2 years ago as a full white bird with a grey feather in each wing.. this is what she has moulted out as this year in full sun she looks nearly white... but she looks like this in the shade.. I have no idea of her parents, sorry

In the shade:

This is the best photo of how she actually looks to the eye... she was pure white with just the dark flight feathers that you can see in this picture.. she has just come out of moult and now looks like this... there is a faint band of blue through her wings, she has never had any form of ring around her neck, and is going on 4 years old now... was just strange to have her change so much after moulting..

the one on the far left:

this is the same bird before her moult (she was white like this for the first 3 years)

In the shade:



In the sun:

[Ring0Neck]

After reading the additional info you have added, it is probably a PallidIno but Cinnamon could still be in play.
I have seen breeders selling an albino only later to molt into a very faint colored blue Pallid my guess PallidIno.
I guess it is a cockbird?

Wish we knew the parentage...

I'm interested what others think also.

8 3 IV

[sheyd]

Thanks Ringoneck.

I thought Cinnamon Blue too, until I saw the last two pics (which were messaged to me) and started to doubt myself.

What does everyone else think?

...............

[sheyd]

Anyone else want to chime in?

The owner has a link to this post- would be disappointing for only one person to comment especially since I suggested to post the bird here, as there are more knowledgeable IRN colour genetics people than me

[Ring0Neck]

If it's a hen...
I don't have any cinnamon-ino but it could well be a Blue Cinnamon-Ino.
Does anyone have a pic of cinnamon-ino to compare?
8 3 IV

[sheyd]

It's a hen

[Recio]

Hi everybody,

My first bet was for a Blue Ino Cin but Ben has already chosen this option ... so let's be creatif: the bird showed from the begining some brown feathers at the wings ... so it makes rapidly appear in my mind Dom pied and cinnamon.
My bet: DF dom pied Blue Cinnamon ... and most probably it is a lady. This is like the first choice but I think that melanin has been washed out by DF dom pied instead of by Ino. Anyway we shoud be able to see the eye colour more clearly: sometimes it looks red (and then I match Ben's bet)and other times it seems black (and then I keep on DF dom pied)... although if cinnamon is in the mix, eye colour would not be either red or black, but some kind of dark red.
In one of the pics you can see a blue iridiscence which has been described in some structural mutations .... so could there also be Violet or Misty?

This bird reminds me of a Blue Pallid-Cinnamon hen posted by Jay several years ago, specially the last pic ... but I can not find Jay's pic.

Could we know anything else about her/his parents and offspring (she is already 4 years old ... so I guess the owner can tell us something more).


Regards

Recio

[sheyd]

Hey guys, I've asked if she could join the forum in order to help further identify her bird- hopefully we hear back from her soon (:

cheers

[Miffy29]

Hi everyone This girl being discussed is my bird... I cannot help at all with her parentage.. Sorry.. And as yet she has had no offspring while with me (she had 6 eggs with a pastel grey season just gone, BUT he flew the aviary while she was on the eggs and long story short I decided it best for both her and I that I remove the eggs from her as I thought raising alone would be to much on her, and I was not confident enough to handraise from a very young age ) I have looked back through photos and I brought her in November 2011 as a 2 going on 3 year old bird.. At that stage she was pure white with only a grey/brownish feather in each wing and a slightly darkish tail.. but looking back at photos I took when I brought her there is a slight blueish tinge/glow to her, but to the eye she was white (I will post a photo of her when I brought her as soon as I work out how too ) was speaking to my hubby about what the fellow said when we brought her, but neither of us can accurately remember what exactly was said, we both remember him talking about a bird that came from pied lines but we cannot remember if he was talking about her or the bird in the cage beside her, there was also talk of violet somewhere, but again not 100% sure which bird he was talking about (wish we paid more attention at the time but we were very new to ringnecks at the time and everything being said was over our heads anyway ) I do though remember him saying that she would throw us some awesome babies (not helpful I know but that is 100% the only thing I am certain he said about her) Her eyes to look at are black, in a photo her eyes remain black if the flash has not gone off, and her eyes appear red if the flash on the camera goes off... Wish I could tell you more but I am affraid that is about it.. Oh except, She remained the pure white with only the couple of grey/brown wing feathers up until the moult she has just gone through in the last few weeks...

[Johan S]

My first thought was that this is a blue pallidino, as the background is very brown in all photos where the bird also appears to have the brown tinge of cinnamon. Then I saw it is a hen... That immediately makes it a very interesting bird in my opinion. I would take a stab at it and guess it is a rare blue cinnamon pallid crossover.

[Miffy29]

Cheers everyone, your thoughts are much appreciated Next Q is what should I pair her with??? I have a DF violet or a sky bule (she is guarding the nest with the blue at the moment) or if these are not suitable for her will buy a colour suited to her

[Recio]

Hi Miffy,

As a first step I would pair her to a normal blue split cinnamon male (if possible also split Ino or Pallid), just trying to uncover her genetic make up. Thereafter you will know her genetic make up and you could try other combinations with other males.

Regards

Recio

[Johan S]

Of the two birds mentioned, I'd breed her with the sky blue to confirm that she carries cinnamon. You'll get 100% blue cinnamon offspring if the hen carries cinnamon. That is based on the appearance. Keep one of the sons of this pairing back for later breeding. Then in the next season pair the hen to a pallid cock. This will confirm if the hen is carrying ino or pallid. I think that should solve the mystery. Then put the hen back on her son. This pairing can produce a son that looks like the mother, which would be an even more valuable bird.

@Recio, why a blue split cinnamon and not the homozygous blue cinnamon?

[Miffy29]

Cheers again.. any particular colour pallid cock. As I will start looking around now for one

[Recio]

Of the two birds mentioned, I'd breed her with the sky blue to confirm that she carries cinnamon. You'll get 100% blue cinnamon offspring if the hen carries cinnamon. That is based on the appearance. Keep one of the sons of this pairing back for later breeding. Then in the next season pair the hen to a pallid cock. This will confirm if the hen is carrying ino or pallid. I think that should solve the mystery. Then put the hen back on her son. This pairing can produce a son that looks like the mother, which would be an even more valuable bird.

@Recio, why a blue split cinnamon and not the homozygous blue cinnamon?

Hi Johan,

You are rigth Johan. With a Blue Cinnamon male the probabilities of getting a Cinnamon male in the offspring are twice than with a Blue/Cin, and thus it would be easier to detect the Cinnamon gene in the mother.

Regards

Recio

[sheyd]

Hey Miffy , let me know if there are any other pics that you'd like to share on here- as I think the wait time (to post pics) is about 2 weeks after registration.

[Johan S]

Cheers again.. any particular colour pallid cock. As I will start looking around now for one

IF the suspicion is right, then this would be a good time to go with a "big" bird, say a pallid in violet, violet deep, violet dark, etc.