Re: Introducing the Dhani
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:38 pm
Good stuff Madas, they are the end birds? These appear slightly different shades, are other mutations involved. Is the middle bird a Blue or a Parblue?
Learn about your feathered family member!
https://www.indianringneck.com/forum/
Sorry, I failed to see this. Where can we find??detailed info will be discussed on the genetics ext.
Yeah. Molossus != madas.Ring0Neck wrote:Willy.
It's Molossus that has posted these birds
trabots wrote:Well for once we have a mutation name which has nothing to do with colour but has many meanings in Hindi for great wealth. The departed Beatle, George Harrison's son Dhani fits the bill, with a worth of some $250 million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DhaaniDhaani means light green. It has come from a word called 'Dhaan' that is the outer covering of a raw grain of rice (kacha chawal ka daana). The green color of that grain is called dhaani.
I presume that the Violet Grey was proven by breeding? Grey would mask Violet so how else would you know? If the cock indeed bred a Grey I would use a different Blue which you know breeds normally, otherwise you are adding another huge uncertainty to the understanding of the Dhani. The Blue cock which breeds Greys needs further investigation on its own, again by using a straight Blue.the cock paired to a blue/ctail bred a violet grey bird...go figure???
Looks like an emerald grey cleartail.prodigy wrote:Molossus, Sir
Do they look anything like this in the flesh ?
One of the young is clearly a Blue, the other is not. In order for one to be Blue the Dhani hen is split Blue. For neither chick to look like the mother, either of the parents has to have another dominant (or dominant in Blue series) mutation extant. As the cock is Blue that leaves the hen which then cannot be the phenotype of a 'clean' Dhani. You might have a chick like the hen in the 2nd clutch. In any event IMO one of the 1st two chicks is the Dhani phenotype, not the mother. How about a pic of the mother?My dhani hen is a mustard brown bird. It has an overtone of mauve. None of the chicks look like their mother.
Willy, I agree. My guess would be the mother is a greygreen Dhani, the father blue, and we are looking at dhani blue and dhani grey (blue) offspring. Greygreen is the best mutation when working towards a brownish phenotype. We see it in edged and cinnamon combinations with greygreen. Greygreen misty isn't brown, but I tend to agree with keeskk16 as well that there are certain misty traits here present too. This mutation seems to be some mixture of misty and emerald combined in one.trabots wrote:One of the young is clearly a Blue, the other is not. In order for one to be Blue the Dhani hen is split Blue. For neither chick to look like the mother, either of the parents has to have another dominant (or dominant in Blue series) mutation extant. As the cock is Blue that leaves the hen which then cannot be the phenotype of a 'clean' Dhani. You might have a chick like the hen in the 2nd clutch. In any event IMO one of the 1st two chicks is the Dhani phenotype, not the mother. How about a pic of the mother?My dhani hen is a mustard brown bird. It has an overtone of mauve. None of the chicks look like their mother.
I guess it's on fatzebook.trabots wrote:Sherjil, where can we find "Babu's profile"? Cheers.
Thanks for the pics, Molossus. They really are turning into something very interesting. A really stunning collection of chicks. The two birds highlighted above appears to have a different phenotype from the pictures, with the first one showing some psittacin (to me, at least). Do you think it could be a greygreen dhani perhaps?molossus wrote:foursome with 'grey' dhani
...
twosome with grey dhani
comments welcome.
Agreed, that could very well be the case too, depending on whether the dame is split to blue or parblue.molossus wrote:Johan yours in an interesting submission. Initially I thought this to be a blue series bird (when i asked for opinions , members agreed) Now , with the bird showing more a blending of blue green (dull jadeblue) this could even be a parblue mutation. Since two grey babies(one in each clutch) also appear parblue too , I have a little more work cut out . Now I am not even certain that the blue series is actually a green series Dhani.. I will match to produce green and blue series birds from the same parents.
Pro, how sure are you about fluorescent? From the photos I'd suspect they are rather iridescent than fluorescent (at this age, at least). Did you guys test with a UV light to confirm a shift in wavelength of the UV light?prodigy wrote:After having seen these birds in the flesh, I can truly say they are something else. With a fluorescence like nothing I have ever seen before in a IRN.
Molossus, I don't think you are jumping the gun at all and respect the cautious approach you follow. Regarding your last thought, I'd rather use a cobalt violet and breed one generation towards cobalt and violet (possibly even both) without any turquoise (or another parblue) yet. If you are lucky, you could start answering the dhani + dark factor and dhani + violet factor questions in one season. I'd rather focus on pure blue series and green series, rather than parblues, which would give an intermediate and possibly confusing result.molossus wrote:Johan hi. In trying to uncover the exact nature of this mutation I have to set aside any preconceived notions and apply a default countdown,, and conduct ongoing tests to eliminate any possibility of the bird being erroneously identified.
I am mindful of the parblue issue with emerald and turq and how differently we all perceive these mutations. since i do have emerald green in alexandrines (tests ongoing for elimination of doubt) I am unwilling to short cut the testing process.
the dhani chicks appears a blend of color (total chicks bred this season = 3 total dhani chicks = 3
1 chick appears bluegreenblend and 2 greybrownblend .
this raises questions about the dhani mother hen...it appears greygreen ish with a mauve sheen
this means that the mother is likely a green series bird...or could it be a parblue df ie consider a parblue turq df grey series. this bird will appear greygreen(remember my df greyturq cock loaned to Carmen,, that is completely greygreen in appearance.) I am the first to doubt the hen to be a df dhani(there were only two stock birds out there and the hen is one of these.) but stranger things have happened.
when i paired the dhani greygreen hen to a blue cock I hoped to breed a green dhani but will have to conduct further tests to verify each dhani color series.
I want the forum members to bombard me with theories ... Willy write to me.
Ringo hi. I am not sure that the saddleback is a dhani relative. in fact i do not think there is a relationship. but you never know until you know. I will breed the dhani to dom pied in due time. perhaps in 2015. I do not have enough material .. only one adult hen and three offspring. This time out i paired the hen to a turq violet. any thoughts on this decision forumites??
here you go https://www.facebook.com/brijesh.chauhan1trabots wrote:Sherjil, where can we find "Babu's profile"? Cheers.
Hi Lee & All;molossus wrote:Johan hi. In trying to uncover the exact nature of this mutation I have to set aside any preconceived notions and apply a default countdown,, and conduct ongoing tests to eliminate any possibility of the bird being erroneously identified.
I am mindful of the parblue issue with emerald and turq and how differently we all perceive these mutations. since i do have emerald green in alexandrines (tests ongoing for elimination of doubt) I am unwilling to short cut the testing process.
the dhani chicks appears a blend of color (total chicks bred this season = 3 total dhani chicks = 3
1 chick appears bluegreenblend and 2 greybrownblend .
this raises questions about the dhani mother hen...it appears greygreen ish with a mauve sheen
this means that the mother is likely a green series bird...or could it be a parblue df ie consider a parblue turq df grey series. this bird will appear greygreen(remember my df greyturq cock loaned to Carmen,, that is completely greygreen in appearance.) I am the first to doubt the hen to be a df dhani(there were only two stock birds out there and the hen is one of these.) but stranger things have happened.
when i paired the dhani greygreen hen to a blue cock I hoped to breed a green dhani but will have to conduct further tests to verify each dhani color series.
I want the forum members to bombard me with theories ... Willy write to me.
Ringo hi. I am not sure that the saddleback is a dhani relative. in fact i do not think there is a relationship. but you never know until you know. I will breed the dhani to dom pied in due time. perhaps in 2015. I do not have enough material .. only one adult hen and three offspring. This time out i paired the hen to a turq violet. any thoughts on this decision forumites??
Johan S wrote:Sherjil, the grey mutation destroys the feather structure in the spongy zone of the feather, but not on the cortex. Any type of structural mutation acting on the outer layer of the feather barbule would not be influenced by the grey mutation. I believe there is a very good chance that this is what we are seeing with the misty mutation too.
Thanks Sir leme check that thread ...molossus wrote:Sherjil some time in august last year I opened a thread on structure alteration. check it out.
what i saw in some alleles of misty is a range of grey on blue that is amazing. in one genotype the body is entirely grey and the head a clear blue. so much for grey destroying structure.
here you go:Mad Max wrote:Hi lee
Do you have a picture of the grey with blue head . I would like to see it
Regards
Robert
madas wrote:here you go:Mad Max wrote:Hi lee
Do you have a picture of the grey with blue head . I would like to see it
Regards
Robert
Not my bird. But i think it is a misty grey (unsure if ef or df).Sherjil wrote:madas wrote:here you go:Mad Max wrote:Hi lee
Do you have a picture of the grey with blue head . I would like to see it
Regards
Robert
Beautiful bird Madas is this a SF grey misty ? btw why do misty have such variation in phenotypes ?