SL Edged

Moderator: Mods

sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Hi all- feel a bit silly posting this, but here goes..

No where can I find multiple pics/angles of a Green Edged hen- since I'm still relatively new to this mutation would someone be able to tell me from these pics if this is typical for it to display in the way it does.

Birds in the aviary are of a Green SL Edged hen (that much I know for sure, anything else that maybe there is questionable), and a Wildtype Green cock. All were taken in the morning (sunny with some clouds) all with exactly the same camera settings and all within about 10mins from start to finish. She switches between Yellow and Green depending on the light (which is why I added the direction in which I took the pics- there is nothing wrong with my camera.

Wildtype cock can be used as a reference in some pics

Cheers.

NW(lower)
Image
Image
Image
Image
NW (upper)
Image
Image
SW (upper)
Image
NE (upper)
Image
Image

aviary is pointing north east when check against google maps- location of birds corrected
Last edited by sheyd on Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
bennjamin
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by bennjamin »

That's a lovely looking bird, from the pics I would guess it may be a turq cinnamon edged.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Thanks Benjamin - she is lovely looking even with her old nare injury.

She is not Turquoise though- def Green series. But would be interested in seeing multiple pics (SL Edged Cin Turqblue) of the same bird to compare for curiosities sake as there should be some similarities.


More pics- unfortunately I missed out on the wing span (wrong position) but will try again tomorrow until I eventually get it. (lots of patience involved!!) also a bummer that pb downgrades the quality of the images- but anyhow shots taken in the morning- sunny and bright, with hardly any clouds

Image
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Carr.birds
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 pm
Location: Bloemfontein South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Carr.birds »

Shey

I am sure I will be able to assist you, but please be patient it is almost breeding season and I only have time on weekends to take comparison pics for you.

Send me your email address for current pics in my archive. To upload pic through photo bucket is time consuming.

proven sl edged-cinnamon hen
Image

ef sl edged dgreen
Image

Tienie
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

that would be fantastic Tienie! whenever you get the time- my email address is cannonboy at bigpond dot com (no spaces, replace the 'at' and the 'dot')
cheers.

Johan- this one's for you - 0.1sl edged, 1.0wildtype, 1.0sf sl edged -not the best angle for him, but hopefully you can still make out the colour of the Rachis.

Image
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Hi all,

On to this bird for a moment..I've read that some of you think that Cinnamon can hide (no ruby eyes or other obvious signs) apart from when they're youngsters then it will show up as patchiness or pied like.

Would this one qualify for such a description? The breeder didn't know what he was- called him a "pied" :wink: also, both he and the hen have brownish lower mandibles- where I've read that they're supposed to be black (for sl edged). He has darker nails than the hen.
He is about 10 months old.

Image
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Shey

I don't have green cinnamon or green sl edged but your birds could be
She: Sl Edged Cinnamon Green
He is a Cinnamon Green for me from what i can see in that pic.
Cinnamon around molt time look as if they are pieds.

Do you know/have pics of the parents?
Hopefully Tiennie or others can clarify
It's so much easier to work with parents if known, it eliminates pics guessing.
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

sheyd wrote:Johan- this one's for you - 0.1sl edged, 1.0wildtype, 1.0sf sl edged -not the best angle for him, but hopefully you can still make out the colour of the Rachis.

Image
Fantastic stuff, Shey! I'm glad that at least someone else is paying close attention to the rachis. My believe is that there is a lot of info there. Notice in your pics that the hen shows brown in the rachis throughout, yet the cock bird shows a change from brown towards the normal dark grey/light black towards the tip of the tail. And the wildtype obviously no change and for reference. This really is a great set of pictures, much appreciated. :D

The interesting thing now will be how proven cinnamon edged changes that. Or perhaps we are already looking at a SL edged / cinnamon cock? Will a SL edged / cinnamon cock show a different tail colour, esp. rachis? Can we position a bird's phenotype on the "Recio concentration S-curve" so that a recessive mutation is actually visible? So many questions. :?:
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Ring0Neck wrote:Shey

I don't have green cinnamon or green sl edged but your birds could be
She: Sl Edged Cinnamon Green
He is a Cinnamon Green for me from what i can see in that pic.
Cinnamon around molt time look as if they are pieds.

Do you know/have pics of the parents?
Hopefully Tiennie or others can clarify
It's so much easier to work with parents if known, it eliminates pics guessing.
Hi Ben, unfortunately I don't know the parent info and wasn't able to view them either, but I suspect that the 3 birds that were being sold at the time were all nest siblings 1 Greygreen (saw this bird in person), 1 Greygreen? SL Edged (pic removed) and then the bird (in the post above,) I purchased.

The breeders first language was not English- and her birds were colony bred- but all three were of the same age and colours combo/s- which led me to believe that they were all of the same clutch.
Last edited by sheyd on Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Johan S wrote: Fantastic stuff, Shey! I'm glad that at least someone else is paying close attention to the rachis. My believe is that there is a lot of info there. Notice in your pics that the hen shows brown in the rachis throughout, yet the cock bird shows a change from brown towards the normal dark grey/light black towards the tip of the tail. And the wildtype obviously no change and for reference. This really is a great set of pictures, much appreciated. :D

The interesting thing now will be how proven cinnamon edged changes that. Or perhaps we are already looking at a SL edged / cinnamon cock? Will a SL edged / cinnamon cock show a different tail colour, esp. rachis? Can we position a bird's phenotype on the "Recio concentration S-curve" so that a recessive mutation is actually visible? So many questions. :?:
No problem- you're definitely onto something there- even with the rachis being brown, it is still darker than the hens. Thankyou for pointing it out earlier- every snippet of information is helpful (:

Yes, you're right! His tail does get darker toward the end (had to go out and have a look)- will see if I can capture that head on.
I agree so many questions that I want answered- am hoping others with Green SL Edged birds will join in and post so we can see the variances between everyone's birds and hopefully draw some calculated conclusions to later backup with some evidence :mrgreen:
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Ah, here we go:
Just a pitty that photobucket downgrades the quality of the images- but nevermind.

Image

so, if hens have the same phenotype as df cocks- would a df cock have the same coloured rachis as a hen?
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

sheyd wrote:so, if hens have the same phenotype as df cocks- would a df cock have the same coloured rachis as a hen?
It should. Tienie owns a DF SL edged cock and can hopefully assist with a close-up photo of the the tail with tip included.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

no photo needed (though would be nice :mrgreen: ) just confirmation.
Carr.birds
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 pm
Location: Bloemfontein South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Carr.birds »

Johan & Shey

I own 3 df sl edged cocks, blue, greygreen and dblue, but unfortunately nothing in green. Pics will follow tomorrow

Tienie
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Looking forward to them Tienie :)

Thankyou for taking the time out to do this.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

still no open wing shots- am either in the wrong position, or I can't get my camera to focus in time- but thought this picture might be appreciated- wonderfully shows how she can be chameleon bird :)
(pic was taken in morning, and with no sun on the bird)

Image
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Tienie, I know you said that you don't have the Green Cinnamon SL Edged hen anymore, but could you describe her colour and did it change like the one I've posted?

Wish I could find another Green Edged hen to compare- not only am I intrigued, the colour of the op hen is also pretty-but unfortunately finding them to buy will be difficult as not many know what edged birds are.
Mad Max
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:12 am
Location: Nigel , South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Mad Max »

I have a turquoise grey SL edged that displays in the same way going from light grey to a dirty white (depending on the sun position)
I dont have many edges in my collection and I have not looked at the tail , I will check as soon as I have a chance and give feed back then

Robert
Mad Max
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:12 am
Location: Nigel , South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Mad Max »

I forgot to add that the guy I bought the turquoise grey from said it could be a split cinnamon if it was a male. I have not had it sexed yet so I dont know .
hope this helps you
Robert
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

Robert, we should be able to sex visually if you can upload a photo. Or send me a PM and you can email it to me for upload.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Interesting Robert- would love to see a photo.

The sun was to the right of that side of the aviary, with all of the aviary shaded- apart from where the corrugation iron allowed some sunlight in at the top the back- as can see in the pic (aviary is against 6ft fence), and the time according to the camera was taken at 10.31 in the morning.
Mad Max
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:12 am
Location: Nigel , South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Mad Max »

Hi Thanks Johan

I work during the week and will only have time over the weekend , but I will take you up on the offer this weekend
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

I'm missing s-thing.
Tiennie, Madas, Johan & whoever has edged.

I have this mature pair that has bred for about 3 years for another breeder.
Pair as i know is:
Male: EF Edged DF Parblue/cinn
Hen: df parblue grey edged cinnamon

With this pair i should not be able to breed any non Edged males, only hens.

Yet the breeder has bred this male and others from this pair.

Image

He's a non edged: df parblue (i assume Indigo)
He sold the males before i could get/see them.
I have them paired up to see for myself this season, meanwhile...

**** It brings me to only 1 conclusion: Hen is not sl edged !

Here she is:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/xs.JPG

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/xso.JPG

Any thoughts???


Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote:I'm missing s-thing.
Tiennie, Madas, Johan & whoever has edged.

I have this mature pair that has bred for about 3 years for another breeder.
Pair as i know is:
Male: EF Edged DF Parblue/cinn
Hen: df parblue grey edged cinnamon

With this pair i should not be able to breed any non Edged males, only hens.

Yet the breeder has bred this male and others from this pair.

He's a non edged: df parblue (i assume Indigo)

**** It brings me to only 1 conclusion: Hen is not sl edged !
Or the hen is cinnamon and incorrectly identified as edged cinnamon? Edged and cinnamon mutations express very similarly. To test this she needs to be paired to a normal cock to see if she gives edged sons.
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Johan,

Yes i thought about that. but a parblue cinnamon hen would look like the male in below pic.
the flight feathers on mine are body color not dark brown,
Image

http://psittacula-world.com/EN/Mutation ... nnamon.htm

I'm thinking it's cinnamon + something else other then edged. :?

cinnamon is rather easy to spot even in CT
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/cinnCTal.jpg


**** This phenotype matches my bird's
Image
Carr.birds
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 pm
Location: Bloemfontein South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Carr.birds »

Ben & Johan

My apology for not joining in. Johan I agree with your statement if non edged cock are produced the mother can't be edged or the cocks you id as non edged are not well marked. From the pic (not so clear) I would say she isn't edged but cinnamon grey turq (indigo)

I have seen some bad marked edged cocks and all my pairings the last 8 years edged hens do produce edged cock babies.

Tienie
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

From the flight pic she looks Cinnamon TurquoiseGrey (the flight and tail look a light brownish colour) but, take a pic with a flash if her eyes show up red, then no Edged- if they show up dark then re-examine the male offspring?
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

or the cocks you id as non edged are not well marked. From the pic (not so clear) I would say she isn't edged but cinnamon grey turq (indigo)

I have seen some bad marked edged cocks and all my pairings the last 8 years edged hens do produce edged cock babies.

Tienie


The other breeder id-ed the other males, i only seen the pic i posted.

You have a good point about the weak markings and it's the only explanation that makes sense to me.
I can't see that hen being just cinnamon grey parblue

here's another bunch form same breeder all clear flights
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgez.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgegreydf.jpg

I guess i'll have to wait till they breed to be sure.

Shey ->
then re-examine the male offspring
the breeder sold them, i only got hens non edged and the pic where flights can not be seen.
Image
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

take a photo of the hen with a flash anyway- can't hurt- and besides I'm curious! :lol:
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Ok
Here you go.
Flash around 3pm
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/flash.jpg

no flash
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/noFL.jpg

you can download to ur PC to zoom in for a closer look.

sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Dark eyes (with a flash)- anyone know how does that? SL Edged isn't the only mutation that can do that either :!:
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

For OZ Breeders

I have 3 eggs available from Edged pair if anyone wants them. she is still laying eggs (i hope)
I used the pair for fostering other eggs.
Pretty sure they are fertile.
eggs were removed as they were laid so they have not been incubated.


pair: first 2 from the left
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/3edged.jpg


pity i had to sacrifice these eggs, i was keen to see the offspring however i could not resist the urge to get this season the long awaited bird: turq. violet CHF.

sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

If only you were in Cairns!
Last edited by sheyd on Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote: i could not resist the urge to get this season the long awaited bird: turq. violet CHF.
That'll be a beauty well worth breeder... I could really use a hen like that.
SCB 22
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:45 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 »

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Last 2 pics were at under 12 months. First 3 were at 36 months old.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Wow! that second last pic you posted looks very similar! so, wait! she got 'yellower' as she got older? That's amazing :)
SCB 22
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:45 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 »

The mustardy yellow definately came out more as she matured hey... Unfortunately i lost her in Feb, so wont know what will happen further... I have one of her green edged / cinnamon sons i am hoping to breed next year to get babies her colour, and then will definately be keeping a baba for myself again, shame she was a lovely girl. Devil of a temper but i miss her terribly, silly thing.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

that's sad- lovely you've kept a son- you'll have another like her again :)
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

sheyd wrote:Wow! that second last pic you posted looks very similar! so, wait! she got 'yellower' as she got older? That's amazing :)
That's good to know as i have some raising 3 y old cinnamon edged, looking forward to next molt.
Shey, how are the eggs? did you candle them yet?

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgepair.jpg
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Ring0Neck wrote:
sheyd wrote:Wow! that second last pic you posted looks very similar! so, wait! she got 'yellower' as she got older? That's amazing :)
That's good to know as i have some raising 3 y old cinnamon edged, looking forward to next molt.
Shey, how are the eggs? did you candle them yet?

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgepair.jpg
No, haven't yet- will do it tomorrow night- I found 3 surprises in the box today- they were all huddled up around your eggs :D Really hope the postman was kind, and that your eggs are good.
(crappy vid still- the other egg and baby are to the left)
Image

Did you end up keeping one or did she only lay 3- if you kept one, have you candled it yet?
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

She only laid 3 but she's fostering 5 eggs for me.

Good thing we did not teach her to count :D

Congratz on ur young chix !


I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Thanks Ben- this my first ever clutch! pretty stoked :mrgreen:
Skyes_crew
Posts: 1946
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:49 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew »

Congrats Shey :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

Image
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Thanks Melissa :)
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

sheyd wrote:Thanks Ben- this my first ever clutch! pretty stoked :mrgreen:
Well done! :D
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Johan S wrote:
sheyd wrote:Thanks Ben- this my first ever clutch! pretty stoked :mrgreen:
Well done! :D
Thanks Johan :)

Ben- I pm'd you
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Below is the op hen's 6 week old son, the hen has the yellowish flights, the edged (unrelated) cock a few posts above also had yellowish flights (no longer have him) but this bird doesn't- which means from the breeding results, that the two above are/were also Cinnamon- they are also a lot more 'yellow' in colour whereas this one is 'greener'.

Green/Cinnamon SL Edged cock.
Image

Image

he will be paired to a Cinnamon hen in the future to prove/disprove Cinnamon.

Below is the op hen's other Green/Cinnamon SL Edged son and Wildtype Green daughter respectively
Image
Skyes_crew
Posts: 1946
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:49 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew »

Beautiful clutch shey :) you should be darn proud of those results.
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

Image
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Thanks Melissa :D
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

The pattern on the other edged boy - would this be considered as 'not well marked?'

(pic not a true representation of colour)
Image

Found these on the aviary floor a couple of days ago and thought it might be of some interest- flight feathers of the parents (Wildtype on top, Green SL Edged Cinnamon on bottom)
Image
Post Reply