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Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

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Lushen1600
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Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:29 am

Hi all, I seem to be getting a lot of queries via email and pm on how to use the genetic calculator, so I thought this would be a good idea to start a little course with lessons(will be done as I get the time) so that newbies can use this to learn how to use the genetic calculator for indian ringnecks on Gencalc.com

So first up let's start with the webpage to get to the genetic calculator

http://www.gencalc.com/gen/eng_genc.php?sp=0PsitIR

Firstly before we jump into calculations, let's look at the calculator and the various components/areas and understand what they mean, I know that this is going to be boring, but it is essential for you to understand this so when using the calculator you understand what you are entering where and why you are doing it.

Take for instance trying to drive a car for the first time if you don't know which pedal to press to accelerate or which one to press to brake or change gears, so the first driving lesson maybe boring as the instructor will explain the different components of the car to you, and you hardly or don't do any driving, so the same applies to the calculator, let's first understand the components to better understand the calculator. So bear with me through this boring few theory lessons until we get to the practical stuff

There are a few things that will be left out for now and explained in the future by me or by the more experienced guys and girls if they would like to help out, as I am also learning so I don't mind being taught and corrected where I am wrong.
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:02 am

So once you have this webpage, the following image will show for the top half of the calculator
Image

And the following image of the bottom half of the calculator
Image

So the first thing to look at on the top left of the calculator in the image of the top half is a column labelled "Symbol", for now let's leave this out, it will be explained at a much later stage

Next up is a column labelled "Mutations" under which are found various headings namely:-

"Structural"
"Dark-Blue Chromosome"
"Sex-Linked Recessive"
"Pieds"

And the last one has no name but for the purpose of this tutorial let's name it

"New"

The next column is for inheritance mode of the particular mutation, namely:-

DO - Autosomal Dominant
IN - Autosomal Incomplete Dominant
CD - Co-dominant
RE - Autosomal Recessive
SE - Sex-linked Recessive
L - Multi Alleles

For now let's also leave this out so as not to be confusing, if any of the experienced guys would like to explain "basics of genetics and inheritance" in simple form for newbies or put up web addresses where they can read and understand these concepts, you are most welcome to.

Next up is 2 major columns named

"1.0" - which simply stands for "Male" or "Cock"
&
"0.1" - which simply stands for "Female" or "Hen"

Under these are minor columns named

"Visual" - here is where you will tick what the actual visual colour of the bird is.

"Splits to" - here you will tick what genes the bird is split to

So to explain this further let's use a simple example of a Blue/ino cock
/ - is short for split to
So we have a blue cock which is split to ino
If you look at this blue/ino cock and compare it to a blue cock without any splits, both birds will look the same so when looking at a blue/ino cock you see a blue bird which is visual but you don't see the split "ino" which is hidden or not visual.
The ino here could have been inherit from the cocks father or mother.

So how would we enter this bird in the calculator, let's leave that for a future lesson. For now I will leave this discussion open for the more experienced guys to comment and correct me where I wrong so we can all head in the right direction
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:33 am

Lushen.....can I please be the first one to THANKYOU, THANKYOU, THANKYOU!! for starting this thread and be willing to show us noobs a little about understanding all this genetics stuff? YAY! Oh, and I don't mind at all the "boring" bits to orientate us around the GenCalc........I'm a big fan of K.I.S.S :lol:
Regards Deb

Johan S
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Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:52 am

Lushen, this is a contribution of note! Well done! :D

I wish the moderators would 'Sticky' this topic and that it can be maintained for all the questions about the genetic calculator. Would clean up the forum quite nicely.

Eshana
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:29 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Eshana » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:52 am

Hi Lushen

Thank you so much....I can't explain how thrilled I am at this tutorial. Being new at keeping and breeding IRN's, I am an absolute dim wit when it comes to understanding mutations. I have been trying for so long to figure it out, but have failed miserably. I think I am probably one of those newbies asking too many 'stupid' questions that prompted you to start this tutorial site :lol: . You probably are sick of my endless questions, but I must thank you for having answered every question and for being so patient with me. Thank you again!

Warm Regards
Eshana

Eshana
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Eshana » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:04 am

Sorry Lushen

You mention in your post that a blue/ino cock will look exactly the same as a blue cock, because the 'ino' is hidden, and is inherited from it's mother or father. What I'd like to know is how can we tell if a blue cock is 'ino' or not, since they both look the same? Do we have to get this information from the person we purchased the bird from (breeder)? In my case I have purchased birds and have no history on their parents. Will I only find out what they are after breeding them?
Sorry, too many questions again :lol: .

Cheers
Eshana

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Lushen1600
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:46 am

Hi Willow and Eshana, I'm glad that you guys are happy that I have started this thread, but please be patient with me as I may not be able to do daily updates and lessons on this one due to time constraints, but will try not to go to many days without new lessons and replies

Hi Johan, thanks for your praises but for this to be successful, I'm gonna need you guys to help me along the way and correct me where I make mistakes, and also answers questions that I may not be able to.

Eshana to get to your question, theoretically, a blue/ino cock and a blue cock should look the same visually considering there is nothing more added ot hidden in the genetics. To know if a cock is blue/ino you will either need some history of the parents and of the bird in question, as to what colour chicks it has produced in previous seasons, failing which you will have to test breed the bird yourself to find out if it is a blue/ino cock, hope this answers your question

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

Eshana
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:29 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Eshana » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:52 pm

Thanks Lushen

It does answer my question perfectly. But I have another question :oops: , if I do pair a blue cock to find out if it is 'ino', what hen do you suggest I pair it with? Must the hen be 'ino' too?

Thanks again

Cheers
Eshana

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willowisp71
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Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:10 pm

Hi Eshana,

I'm glad you asked this question, because I too was wondering about my blue cock. I'm in the same boat as you, where I have absolutely no information on his parents genetics, or his own, as we found him after he escaped from somewhere. Although visually he is a blue, depending on the light, Skittles sometimes gets a violet hue around his head, at other times there's a distinct grey hue to his wings, and still other times where he has a slight green-ish tinge to his wings! He only has 3 tail feathers at present - a long central blue one, and 2 shorter ones each side that are a very pale blue, almost white. He's been with us for 2 and a half weeks now, only had the 3 tail feathers when we found him, and I've yet to see evidence of any others growing back, (perhaps it's too soon? No idea how long ago he lost them).

I asked the question earlier, of suitable coloured hens for Skittles, and I think it was Rod038 who gave me a basic rundown on what to expect in chicks colours if I put him with either a violet, grey or blue (or cobalt blue) hen. These 3 colours are my preference for a hen, and in that order.....not sure how we'll go at finding our first preference of a violet in Western Australia, but will deal with that when the time comes :D

And Lushen, no pressure at all on when/how often you update the lessons.....it'll give me ample time for it to sink in :lol: I'm just stoked that you are willing to teach us at all, so thankyou :)
Regards Deb

Ernest_sjn
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Ernest_sjn » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:58 pm

I don't know how to use the gen cal, where to put the albinos, apple green, light blue(torq x lacewing), etc.. I really am a novice to breeding..

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Lushen1600
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:33 pm

Hi all, thanks for the replies, before I move onto a new lesson, I'm going to place links to articles which I'm hoping may help you understand parrot genetics better and not confuse you. Firstly I would like for you to read through these articles and if you can print them out and keep them in a file for future reference. I know that after reading these articles many questions will come up, but I suggest for you to write your questions down on a page and you will see with time they will get answered as we go along with future lessons. So here are some articles to read.

http://www.bluequaker.com/Art-008.htm

http://www.flatratewebsites.com/sites/o ... etics.html

http://www.ringneckmutations.com/Pages/Genetics.aspx

http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/ ... rameri.htm

http://birdpets.onenessbecomesus.com/Genetics.pdf

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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willowisp71
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Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:01 am

Hi Lushen,

I've just finished reading the 'homework' you set us :lol: , and found it really helpful in understanding how the genetics and different mutations work. Thanks so much for pointing us in the right direction.

Just so I can test out my new-found knowledge, (and here I might be COMPLETELY off the beaten track :oops: ), but for Sweetleaf's grey cock and grey (silver?) hen to produce 2 blue chicks and 1 grey.....does that mean that either the cock or the hen (or both?) had to be SF grey, or is the cock carrying the hidden blue gene? Or should I go back and re-do my homework :mrgreen:

Did I get it wrong?? :D

Regards Deb
Regards Deb

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Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:13 am

Hi Deb, grey is a blue series bird, so you will get blue babies by putting 2 grey birds together, unless of course 1 bird is a double factor grey then you will get all grey babies, seeing that you got 1 blue baby, that would mean that both your birds are single factor, will explain all this in more detail in future lessons

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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willowisp71
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Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:09 am

Thanks Lushen! :D
Regards Deb

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Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:57 am

Hi all I'm sure that you guys have had enough time to go thru some of the article links I have posted previously so I'm going to continue with lessons

We last spoke about the top half of the calculator, so now I'm going to speak about the bottom half of the calculator

First up here is another pic of the bottom half of the calculator so you can see what I'm talking about
Image

Ok so on the bottom half of the calculator you find 2 boxes that can be checked or ticked
1 says
"Visuals only (no splits)"
and the other says
"Show genetic code"

For the purpose of this tutorial and for beginners always make sure that there are no ticks in these boxes as if they are it will complicate things as you are just starting of.

Next you will find 2 buttons namely:-

"Reset" - this allows you to clear your previous entry so that you can perform a new calculation

"Generate" - you click this button once you have selected the genetics of the pairings of both the birds that you would like to put together and it will calculate and give you the outcome

Next lesson we are going to do our first simple calculation

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:38 am

Ok so for our next lesson we are going to start with a very simple calculation and later move onto more calculations(I won't say more difficult calculations, cos once you get the hang of it, then it becomes very simple)

So first up I always get asked the question as to how one enters a visual green bird in the calculator, and I understand as the calculator shows nowhere to tick for a green bird, so first calculation we gonna pair a
"Green cock"
to a
"Green hen"

So how do we calculate this, very simple, go to the bottom of the calculator and make sure there are no ticks in the bottom 2 boxes, then hit the "Reset" button so that it clears any entries you have previously made. So with nothing ticked, hit the "Generate" button and you should end of with a calculation like this pic below
Image
If you don't get the same results, go back and start again

So what are the results telling us, firstly on top it shows us what we have paired together
"1.0 green
x 0.1 green

1.0 green - this stands for a "Green cock" as we have discussed earliar that "1.0" stands for "Cock" or "Male"

x - this stands for paired to or mated to

0.1 green - this stands for a "Green hen" as we have discussed earliar that "0.1" stands for "Hen" or "Female"

Next up it says

"% from all 1.0
100.0% 1.0 green"

This is showing us what "Male" chicks we may get and what percentages we will get of each colour/mutation from the pairing we have just entered.

And below that it says

"% from all 0.1
100%. 0.1 green"

So here its showing us what "Female" chicks we may get and what percentages we will get of each colour/mutation from the pairing we have just entered.

So basically its telling us that if we mate a "Green cock" to a "Green hen" all or 100% of the "Male" chicks will be green and all or 100% of the "Female" chicks will be green.

This is not to be mistaken for how many male chicks or how many female chicks you may get, as no calculator will be able to tell you that, example of what I mean if you have 5 eggs and 5 chicks are born,

All could be male chicks or
All could be female chicks or
4 could be males and 1 could be a female,
and I can continue but I'm sure you get the picture, so what the calculator is telling for this example is that if you get male chicks, all would be green and if you get female chicks, all would be green.

Next lesson we will go onto another calculation and hopefully it will make more sense then

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

Ernest_sjn
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Ernest_sjn » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:58 am

What does it mean with the "opa" in the gen cal?

Regards, Ernest from Philippines..

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Lushen1600
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:46 am

Hi Ernest

Thanks for your reply, would like to know which part of the genetic calculator do you see "OPA"?

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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willowisp71
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Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:16 pm

I think Ernest may have meant the OP? = Opaline?
Regards Deb

asifsuun
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by asifsuun » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:50 am

I would love to explore.

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Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:47 am

Hi all sorry that I took so long to start the next lesson, been working long hours and night duty at work, so please excuse me for taking so long to continue with lessons.

Before we go to the next lesson, there are some rules that I would like to lay down as we will now see how splits come about, so here they are :-

Firstly NO indian ringneck can be split for any dominant mutation, namely :-

Dark
Dominant Edge Dilution
Dominant Pied
Green
Grey
Misty(Khaki)
Violet

Secondly NO female indian ringneck can be split for any sex-linked mutation, namely :-

Ino
Pallid
Cinnamon
Opaline

So now that we laid down those rules we can continue with our lesson, so we are going to do another simple calculation and mate a

"Green Cock" to a "Lutino Hen"

So we go to our calculator and firstly hit the Reset button to clear out any previous calculations,

For the "Green Cock" we leave the 1.0 column empty as shown in the previous lesson that by leaving the column empty the calculator know that you are entering a "Green" bird.

For the "Lutino Hen" we only tick "ino" under the 0.1 column under sex-linked mutations

Below is a pic of how you should enter this into the genetic calculator
Image

Then you hit the "Generate" button and you would end up with the following results
Image

So this tells us that all chicks that are "Males" from the above mating will be visual "Green" birds carrying a hidden "ino" gene

And all chicks that are "Female" from the above mating will be visual "Green" birds not carrying any hidden genes

Try a few calculation on your own and next we are going to take one of the male chicks from the above mating and put it back to the mother to see what happens, so we basically gonna mate mother to son

I know that this is boring cos we currently dealing with green series birds but its the easiest way for me to lay down the proper foundations so that when we are doing more complicated calculations, they will seem simple

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

king kong
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Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by king kong » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:35 am

HI

Thanks Lushen1600
it is really helpful for the beginners or who take interest in genetics but dont have proper time to satisfy their thirst through a proper plate form where they also find handful answers of their quarries
so ur work must b appreciated well done n keep it up
me too have some confusions in mind but r for next level which ill discuss here later at proper time bcos dont want to create fuss at d moment

regards

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willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:47 am

Thanks Lushen!

No rush on the lessons.......we know you have a lot going on at the moment :D Look forward to the next installment when you get the chance :)
Regards Deb

Eshana
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Eshana » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:56 am

Thank you so much Lushen

I have really been enjoying these lessons and it is far from boring. Thank you for having so much of patience by starting from the very basics (which we novices desperately need :lol: ).

Warm Regards
Eshana

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Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:52 am

Hi King Kong, Willowisp & Eshana

Thank you for your patience, I'm currently working on the next lesson in draft mode on my phone and will post once completed

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:12 pm

Hi all for this next lesson we are going to mate one of the male chicks from the above pairing back to the mother

Just to recap the above mating was with a "Green Cock" to a "Lutino Hen" which produced

Green/ino male chicks
Green female chicks

So now we are going to mate one of the "Green/ino" male chicks back to the "Lutino" mother to see what happens
So on the genetic calculator the first thing we always do before starting a new calculation is hit the "Reset" button

For the male "Green/ino" we will not tick anything under the "visual" column for "1.0" but we need to tick "ino" under the "splits to" column, but now there are 2 options under the "splits to" column namely :-

"x1" - select this if the sex-linked gene was inherited from that father

"X2" - select this if the sex-linked gene was inherited from the mother

So we know that our "Green/ino male chick had a "Green" father and a "Lutino" mother, so the ino that the male chick inherited as a hidden gene was inherited from his mother, so in this case we tick "x2" for "ino" under the "splits to" column under "1.0" (hope this make sense, would like the more experienced guys to confirm if I'm on the right track with this one)

We know from previous experience that we need to tick "ino" under the "0.1" visual column for the mother who is lutino. So your entry in the calculator should be like the pic below
Image

Once you have made your entry as above you hit the "Generate" button and you will end up with a result like the pic below
Image

So what can we deduce from the above
The results are telling us that from all the males we get
50% - will be visually green birds carrying/split to the hidden ino gene just like the male in this calculation
50% - will be visually lutino/yellow birds without any splits or hidden genes

The result also tells us from all the females we get
50% - will be visually lutino/yellow birds without any splits or hidden genes
50% - will be visually green birds without any splits or hidden genes

So in total we can work out that 50% of all the chicks produced (irrespective whether they are male or female) will be visually green and the other 50% will be visually yellow/lutino.

Now here is the tricky part when putting a pair like this together,
and we get 4 eggs and 4 chicks hatch,

we cannot say that because 4 chicks have hatched, 2(50%) will be visually green and the other 2(50%) will be visually yellow/lutino

We may end up with all 4 chicks being visually green or all 4 chicks being visually yellow/lutino

We also may end up with 3 chicks being visually green and 1 chick being visually yellow/lutino
or
We also may end up with 1 chick being visually green and 3 chicks being visually yellow/lutino

So why does this not line up with what the calculator tells us, well the calculator works out percentage according to 100 chicks being born, so out of 100 chicks that are born, 50 will be green and the other 50 will be yellow.

So if you have the above pair and you get 5 chicks from this pair every season, it is possible for this pair to give you 5 green chicks every season for the next 10 seasons before giving you lutino chicks,
or
it is also possible for this pair to give you 5 lutino chicks every season for the next 10 seasons before giving you green chicks

but I'm being drastic in my example, you should expect some lutino chicks and some green chicks. but what I'm trying to say is don't expect half the chicks born to be lutino and the other half to be green, anything is possible

Thanks
Lushen
Last edited by Lushen1600 on Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Eshana » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:34 am

Hi Lushen

Great lesson....now it is all starting to make sense. I realise now why it is so important to know the birds history (lineage). What the bird actually looks like makes no difference...it is what the bird has inherited from its parents that makes a huge difference to the outcome of its chicks. Thanks again....

Warm Regards
Eshana

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by king kong » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:47 am

Hi
@ Eshana u r right n
@ Lushen1600 u r going really good
one thing i have in my mind that y X1 & X2 stands for splits of father & mother respectively, because i was thinking it stands for 1St generation split n 2 Nd generation split totally my thoughts
one more thing i want to ask that once i saw T1 & T2 :shock: in very next 2nd column of X1 & X2 (under 0.1 row s-linked recessive ) what is it for
regards
8)

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:31 am

Hi King Kong, I once asked about why and what to use the x1, x2 for on this forum and from the answer I got, this is how I've accustomed myself to use the calculator, here is a link to that thread

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15361

As for the T1, T2, that's a good question, which I have never asked as I don't have any dark mutation birds that are split for blue or turquiose, therefore would like to ask the more experienced guys to answer this one as I'm not sure how and why would one select either the T1 or T2 option, if there is a thread where this query has been answered, please refer us to it.

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:35 am

Thanks for the latest lesson, Lushen! I've been away all weekend, and only just caught up on the last few post's........it's great to finally know what the x1 and x2 mean! I have been wondering about them :)
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by king kong » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:48 am

Hi
thanks Lushen1600 me too desperately looking for T1 & T2 becos my theory is till the time we dont have fundamental knowledge about the Calculator how comes we can get correct solutions of our queries
one more suggestion :D though i m increasing a little bit of ur work load but sharing knowledge will increase our knowledge too and
i,e y not we start another thread to understand the basics of color representations
e.g Blue = blue ino
visual green = green / blue ino (from 1.0 blue ino x 0.1 green)......
i mean representation of visual color in codes (inherited gene)to put on Gen Cal i think will be helpful for new as well as senior users (as reminder) n all will be available at single platform
@ willowisp71, Eshana, u people r taking iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinterest too appreciable
regards to all
:mrgreen:

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sahhbear » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:14 am

WOW!! Thank you Lushen! I've seen you post on a couple of other threads and thought to myself holy crap what is all this 0.1 1.0 stuff- now I have some idea thanks to the lovely Deb who referred me to this thread. I'd love to work out the the genetics for my guy even though I'm not wanting to breed him... I'd just like to know. Unfortunately I think I'm going to be in the same boat as you with Skittles Deb- I have no idea who his parents are so I am only going to be able to get so far as to the "visual" appearance stage.

Thanks again Lushen. This is really awesome that you are taking time out to explain this to us all xx
Sarah Xx

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:00 am

Hi all here is the next lesson, thanks for being so patient, currently busy with studies so I decided to have a break a post another lesson

For this lesson, its going to be another simple calculation, we going to mate a

"Green/ino cock"
to a
"Green hen"

Once again excuse this boring lesson and some may think I'm mad, but there is some method in my madness

So I'm sure by now we would all know how to enter these into the calculator as we have experience from previous lessons on how to do this, and if you have forgotten please go up to previous lessons and read again before continuing, to make this interesting, I'm not going to put a pic of how it should be entered.

Ok so once we have entered the above, hit the "Generate" button and your results should be as follows, if it is not the same, then you have entered incorrectly, so go back and try to figure out your mistake
Image

So from the above we can see that all males chicks will be visually green with 50% of the male chicks being split for ino and the other 50% having no splits

For the female chicks 50% will be visual green with no splits and 50% will be visual lutino with no splits

I'm going to give you a heads up of what we going to mate for the next 2 lessons

"Lutino cock x Green hen"

"Lutino cock x Lutino hen"

So try to work these out on your own, and when I put up the next 2 lessons, if you get them correct give yourself a tap on the shoulder, if you made your mistake and got incorrect results, go back and figure out what you did wrong and once you identified your mistake, then you can also give yourself a tap on the shoulder

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:12 am

Thanks Lushen, hope your studies are going well! Look forward to seeing the next lesson (when you can, no rush), and making sure I got the correct results :D :lol:
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:21 am

Hi Deb, studies are going fine, hope you are well, haven't had a chance to come online for a while, so while I had the chance, I thought I would do another lesson.

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:37 am

Hi all, while I still have some free time let's go onto the next lesson, if you haven't already tried to work with the 2 matings that I left as homework on the last lesson, then I would suggest that you go back and try to work them out first before reading this to see if your results match mine

So with this lesson, as I have mentioned previously, we are going to mate a

"Lutino cock"
to a
"Green hen"

Once again I'm not going to show you how this is entered as it has been shown previously. So once you have entered the above in hit the "Generate" button and your results should be as follows
Image

So as you can see from the above results, all males will be visual green birds, split for ino, and all female birds will be visual Lutino

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:10 am

Hi all, in the next lesson as I have said in a previous lesson our next mating will be a

"Lutino cock"
to a
"Lutino hen"

So by now we already know how to enter these into the calculator, so once entered hit the "Generate" button and your results should be as follows
Image

So from the above result we can see that all male babies will be visual lutino without any splits and all females will also be visual lutino without any splits

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:11 am

Yay!! I get a gold star!! And a pat on the back :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks again Lushen! :D
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by king kong » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:46 am

HI

Yay!! I get a gold star!! And a pat on the back :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks again Lushen! :D


@willowisp71
lovely saying
Lushen1600now we r getting n following ur foot steps but will b more interested when we r going to evaluate more advance mutations
:mrgreen:

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:13 pm

I think Lushen should give us some homework, each get's a different pairing to try and work out, and then submit for marking :lol: :lol: :lol:
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:42 am

Hi everyone,

since I think this is an important topic, and seeing as things are a bit quite, I decided I'll post a "puzzle" for people still figuring out genetics.

Who can name the genetic make up of the adult birds in this picture based on what you can see in them, as well as what you can see in the young birds. Then, how would we enter it into gencalc? Finally, what is the probability of breeding those two chicks from this pair?

Image

PS: To the more experienced people, if you can ID them in 2 seconds flat, please don't spoil the surprise for the others yet. :D

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:22 am

Oh Johan!! That is a tricky one!! LOL, :lol: but I'm up for the challenge!

I may get it wrong though :|
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:04 am

Hi Deb, there are easy components to the puzzle, and one tricky component. We have to keep exercising that muscle between our ears. :lol:

I will give a series of hints over the next couple of days. But for now, you have to swim on your own in the deep end of the pool so that we can give everybody in the different time zones a shot at it. So, give it a try!

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Auntybabe » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:30 pm

Thankyou so much for these lessons!
I joined the forum yesterday, and found this thread. I am so glad I did! I'll try the puzzle - but it's a tough one, as the lessons are not over yet. I'm still trying to come to grips with fallow, pied, clearhead etc.?:,,!

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:13 pm

Haha, Johan!! Lucky I'm wearing my arm floaties, for I fear I may sink without them on this one! Had a play already, and STILL can't get the right outcome based on the chicks colours, but as they say, if at first you don't succeed...... :D

Just to clarify, that is the parents either side with the two chicks in the middle, yes??
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:04 pm

Hi all sorry I haven't been online for a while, will continue with lessons soon

Hi Deb, yes you are correct the parents are on both sides and the two in the centre are the chicks, I'm not saying anymore as I don't want to spoil the fun. You will have to work this one out and wait for Johan to give you clues and eventually the answer

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:26 am

Thanks Lushen,

I have Pm'd my 'guess' to Johan, and will await his answer as to how wrong I got it, lol! Hopefully I'm not TOO far off the beaten track.......still unsure about the 'dad' :D
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:29 am

Hi Deb, I got your PM, but let's keep it public so that everyone can learn from the experience. :) You have some things right, and some wrong.

So, for the first hint, the parents are the two birds on the sides. The cock is on the left. It is confusing, because he doesn't have a neck ring, yet he is more than old enough so that it should have appeared. That is because of the mutation he is carrying. That is your second hint.

If unsure about the mutations, always visit http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/ ... rameri.htm.

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:43 pm

The yellow and green is the cock?? :shock: Lol, boy, did I get that one wrong! :D
Back to the drawing board!
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:21 pm

Ok, so here is my guess, based on the LEFT bird being the cock, and the right being the hen.........The cock is recessive pied, hence no neck ring - the hen I've gone with recessive pied too, but maybe she's dominant? Not very informed about the pied's...........I still feel like there is something I'm missing though..... :(

1.0 green rec.pied /blue
x 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
25.0% 1.0 blue rec.pied
25.0% 1.0 green rec.pied /blue
25.0% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
25.0% 0.1 blue rec.pied
25.0% 0.1 green rec.pied /blue
25.0% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied

Left chick turquoise(parblue)Blue rec. pied? and right chick blue rec.pied? They both have a LOT of white in them though, and this is throwing me.
I'm also wondering if there is something else at play in the mother hen?
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:27 pm

Hmmmm.....is it possible the dad is also carrying split ino?? Would this result in these 2 chicks carrying so much visual white? (I kind of assumed that an ino bird would be basically visually all white or all yellow, with only a hint of a hue etc)

1.0 green rec.pied /blue ino
x 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
% from all 1.0
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue) ino
12.5% 1.0 blue rec.pied /ino
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /blue ino
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied /ino
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 1.0 blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
% from all 0.1
12.5% 0.1 ino rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 0.1 blue ino rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 ino rec.pied /blue
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 0.1 blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied


Anyone else (newbies) want to have a crack also? Interested to see what others thoughts are :D
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:03 am

Deb, now you are on the right track. The cock is recessive ADM pied, yes. But you don't have the hen 100% yet. However, you're spot on with the chicks as well! Your Gencalc output (without ino!) is almost right. You just need some tweaking on the hen's side. I'm also going to give you a gold star for the combination of blue and turquoise. You seem to have that sorted out well! Perhaps you can explain your thought process to others.

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:42 am

Hi Johan,

Oh yay! It's nice to know I'm on the right track, anyway!

Hmmm...yes the hen, I did figure that I didn't have her quite right. Now, is it the pied that I don't have right with her? Is she dominant pied instead? Or is it something else?? I did at one point wonder if she had Darkfactor in her, and even entertained for a moment that perhaps she was Violet Turquoise pied instead of Turquoise(parblue)Blue Pied....? But to be honest, Johan, I'm really guessing at this point, not speaking with any certainty.

My thought process; to start with, both the chicks are obviously pied, and are showing blue, so that means both parents must carry blue in their genetics, as blue is recessive. The dad is visually Green Pied, and the pied is recessive as he has no neck ring, and he must also be split to blue in order to produce the blue in the chicks. Then I figured the hen must be turquoise, as one of the chicks has yellow patches as well as blue. I played around with the GenCalc until I could produce both a blue rec.pied, and a turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied.

And even going through all that just now, I'm still stumped on the missing link with the hen :D :D :D
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by madas » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:26 am

willowisp71 wrote:Hi Johan,

Oh yay! It's nice to know I'm on the right track, anyway!

Hmmm...yes the hen, I did figure that I didn't have her quite right. Now, is it the pied that I don't have right with her? Is she dominant pied instead? Or is it something else?? I did at one point wonder if she had Darkfactor in her, and even entertained for a moment that perhaps she was Violet Turquoise pied instead of Turquoise(parblue)Blue Pied....? But to be honest, Johan, I'm really guessing at this point, not speaking with any certainty.

My thought process; to start with, both the chicks are obviously pied, and are showing blue, so that means both parents must carry blue in their genetics, as blue is recessive. The dad is visually Green Pied, and the pied is recessive as he has no neck ring, and he must also be split to blue in order to produce the blue in the chicks. Then I figured the hen must be turquoise, as one of the chicks has yellow patches as well as blue. I played around with the GenCalc until I could produce both a blue rec.pied, and a turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied.

And even going through all that just now, I'm still stumped on the missing link with the hen :D :D :D
So compare the pied male on the left and the pied? female on the right. Sure she is pied?

madas

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:59 pm

Hi madas,

If the cock is rec.pied, but the hen is NOT pied at all, then how are the chicks visually pied? Or are they not considered visually pied, but something else? :| Now I really AM confused! lol :lol:
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by McmillanBirds » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:35 am

Deb- *hint*: does a bird need to be visually pied to carry the pied gene?

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:14 am

Thanks for the help Madas and Carmen!

Deb, have you been able to sove it yet? Another hint: You were able to work out that we can breed blue and turquoise chicks from a green parent. How was that possible? :?:

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:20 am

Carmen - I thought Madas was intimating that the hen had no pied gene in her at all, but of course, if she is SPLIT to pied, then that would work as well :)

Johan - NOOOOOOOoooooooo! Boohoo..... :lol: , I still can't work it out - unless it's just a simple case of her being turquoise(parblue)Blue SPLIT to pied.rec.....but she doesn't LOOK like (visually) just turquoise(parblue)Blue....she's all patchy!! Is she moulting?? lol :lol:
Johan S wrote:Another hint: You were able to work out that we can breed blue and turquoise chicks from a green parent. How was that possible?
Answer: the green pied cock is split to blue, and the hen must be turquoise blue to allow them to breed blue and turquoise offspring...yes? Blue being recessive, needs to be present in both parents to get blue chicks?

Ok, this is my last attempt at this, and then someone will have to put me out of my misery, lol, :lol:

1.0 green rec.pied /blue
x 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
% from all 1.0
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 1.0 green /turquoise(parblue) rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 blue /rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 1.0 green /blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
% from all 0.1
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 0.1 green /turquoise(parblue) rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 blue /rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 0.1 green /blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:03 am

Deb, your last attempt was spot on! :) I will mark the genetic description of the chicks.

So, as another Gencalc lesson, you will notice that the offspring can be either hens or cocks, so they should be sexed surgically or by DNA.

And I will let you in on a little secret as well. Those were the foster parents, but they could have been the real parents. :lol:
willowisp71 wrote:Ok, this is my last attempt at this, and then someone will have to put me out of my misery, lol, :lol:

1.0 green rec.pied /blue
x 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
% from all 1.0
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 1.0 green /turquoise(parblue) rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 blue /rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 1.0 green /blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
% from all 0.1
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 0.1 green /turquoise(parblue) rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 blue /rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 0.1 green /blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied

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willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:49 pm

Oh joy!! Lol, thanks Johan! Here I was thinking there must have been something more complex involved with the hen!
And is it just the photo, or does she actually look kind of patchy? Or am I just seeing things? To be honest, she doesn't look like other Turquoise(parblue)Blue's I've seen pics of, which I think is what kept throwing me!

And they were foster parents, too! Tricky, tricky, tricky! :lol: But yes, I can see that they still COULD have produced those chicks :)

Well done, and thanks for making me 'stretch' my brain cells with this one....I definitely need to start wrapping my head around the other mutations, like the pied's, CHCT's, dilutes, clearhead_fallows, etc, etc. I find I'm usually pretty accurate when dealing with the top half of the GenCalc....but the bottom half is still a little daunting :shock: :|
Regards Deb

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willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:51 pm

PS: Thanks also Madas and Carmen for your 'hints' :D
Regards Deb

king kong
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by king kong » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:03 am

Hi all
trick trick trick OMG :twisted:
though the piedness is my weakest area but my guess is
from Left
Rec. Edged Pied Green, Rec Edged Pied Turquoise Blue, Rec. Edged Pied Blue, Green Hen
looking for correction :mrgreen:
regards

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Lushen1600
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:14 pm

Hi guys, sorry for not posting in this thread as I was busy studying for my papers which are now over. I would like to thank Johan for giving you guys some work to do while I was studying and would like for him and others to put up more puzzles if you guys like to keep the newbies busy. I will put up some homework later today which will be very easy for you guys to do, seeing its the festive season and once we go into the new year I will continue with more lessons to keep you guys occupied until my next exams come up in May/June 2013

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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sheyd
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:37 pm

From the Gen Calc- What would a Grey pallidIno/Turquoise look like? I've noticed that there's neither the word 'Green' nor 'Blue' after the word 'Grey'- would this bird be a Green or a Blue series bird? (Am thinking green since a blue cant be split to Turquiose) this has me stumped as it came up on FB.. after seeing a photo of a Grey Pallid looking chick, that apparently came from a Turquiose Ino (Creamino) cock, and a Grey Pallid Hen.


Anyone help me out? (:

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Lushen1600
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:41 am

Hi Chocobo in order to answer your question I first need to understand what have you seen, is it

1.0 grey(sf) pallidIno /turquoise(parblue)

If so then this would according to my understanding be a greygreen pallidino split turquoise

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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sheyd
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:32 am

Lushen1600 wrote:Hi Chocobo in order to answer your question I first need to understand what have you seen, is it

1.0 grey(sf) pallidIno /turquoise(parblue)

If so then this would according to my understanding be a greygreen pallidino split turquoise

Thanks
Lushen
This it it exactly (would explain the pale caramel grey looking colour)- thanks for your help (:

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sheyd
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:49 am

I just thought of something...two blue birds cannot a green bird make... so that formula is wrong! the chick in question can only be a blue series bird...so it has to be a. 1.0 grey(sf)Turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno :oops:

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Lushen1600
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Hi Chocobo, my mistake as I never read your initial post properly so never saw the parents genetics, so for that pairing these are the results

1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino
x 0.1 grey(sf) blue pallid
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) blue pallidIno <--- could be this chick
25.0% 1.0 blue pallidIno
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno <--- could be this chick
25.0% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) blue ino
25.0% 0.1 blue ino
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue ino
25.0% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino

What caught my attention was when you mentioned

"From the Gen Calc- What would a Grey pallidIno/Turquoise look like? I've noticed that there's neither the word 'Green' nor 'Blue' after the word 'Grey"

So reading that I automatically thought of greygreen pallidino/turquoise.

Sorry about the mistake as I'm not sure how I missed the info on the parents of that chick

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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sheyd
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:52 am

Lushen1600 wrote:Hi Chocobo, my mistake as I never read your initial post properly so never saw the parents genetics, so for that pairing these are the results

1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino
x 0.1 grey(sf) blue pallid
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) blue pallidIno <--- could be this chick
25.0% 1.0 blue pallidIno
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno <--- could be this chick
25.0% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) blue ino
25.0% 0.1 blue ino
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue ino
25.0% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino

What caught my attention was when you mentioned

"From the Gen Calc- What would a Grey pallidIno/Turquoise look like? I've noticed that there's neither the word 'Green' nor 'Blue' after the word 'Grey"

So reading that I automatically thought of greygreen pallidino/turquoise.

Sorry about the mistake as I'm not sure how I missed the info on the parents of that chick

Thanks
Lushen
lol all good :) I'm still learning- need more lessons I think...lol

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Lushen1600
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:34 am

Hi all after a very long break I'm now ready to continue with lesson on the genetic calculator, but before I do I would like to do a recap of all the 6 calculations that we have done so far

1) Green cock x Green hen
2) Green cock x Lutino Hen
3) Green/ino cock x Lutino hen
4) Green/ino cock x Green Hen
5) Lutino cock x Green hen
6) Lutino cock x Lutino hen

Understanding these calculations I would like to give you guys some homework.

If you notice there are 3 other sexlinked mutations besides "ino" namely:-

Cinnamon
Pallid
Opaline

So what I would like you to do is to first replace the last 5 matings with these mutation where you see "lutino" or "ino" and work them out for yourselves, so for the first 5 calculations you would use Cinnamon, then move onto 5 Pallid calculations and lastly 5 Opaline calculations. To make thing easier here are the 15 calculations that you would need to work out on your own

1) Green cock x Cinnamon Hen
2) Green/cinnamon cock x Cinnamon hen
3) Green/cinnamon cock x Green Hen
4) Cinnamon cock x Green hen
5) Cinnamon cock x Cinnamon hen

6) Green cock x Pallid Hen
7) Green/pallid cock x Pallid hen
8) Green/pallid cock x Green Hen
9) Pallid cock x Green hen
10) Pallid cock x Pallid hen

11) Green cock x Opaline Hen
12) Green/opaline cock x Opaline hen
13) Green/opaline cock x Green Hen
14) Opaline cock x Green hen
15) Opaline cock x Opaline hen

So once you have completed all 15 calculations, you would have learnt what pairings you would get when mating a green ringneck to a sexlinked mutation.

From here onwards we are going to move on from sexlinked to recessive mutations.
So while you guys are busy with this homework, I'm going to work on the next lesson

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by evelch » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:14 am

So glad I found this forum. I am finally starting to understand the basics of breeding mutations and gaining an understanding of how this calculator works. Well until I got to your puzzle OMG those multi coloured birds totally stumped me. Tried following Debs cals till I became totally lost. Put it down to me being the newest of a newbie...lol...I haven't bred any birds yet, buying my first nesting box this week in preparation for the next breeding season. But i never say die so wish me luck with the 15 cals I now face.
regards
Eve

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nalukaikamahine
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by nalukaikamahine » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:18 am

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
This is a FANTASTIC informational thread. I've learned so much already. :mrgreen:
Completely, Utterly & Unconditionally In Love With My Baby Ringneck, Apollo!

Image

evelch
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by evelch » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:08 am

Homeworks done! I'm getting good at this...lol...oh Apollo is a real cutie hope he grows into a real character like my Sammy.....never a dull moment in this house. Sammy's the boss here, i'm just the supplier of his yummy treats :D

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by ANGIE MONKMAN » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:41 am

Hi everyone I have just seen Grey Male mating with light green female, what babies will I get please ? I have tried to follow genetics but too hard lol x

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sheyd
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:16 pm

ANGIE MONKMAN wrote:Hi everyone I have just seen Grey Male mating with light green female, what babies will I get please ? I have tried to follow genetics but too hard lol x
depends what you mean by 'light green' - but I'm assuming that you mean either a Green Pallid or a Green Cinnamon.

Grey x Green Pallid will produce Greygreen and Green chicks, with the cocks being split Blue and Pallid, while hens being only split for Blue


Grey x Green Cinnamon will produce Greygreen and Green chicks with the cocks split Blue and Cinnamon, while hens being only split for Blue.

ANGIE MONKMAN
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by ANGIE MONKMAN » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:40 am

Chocobo wrote:
ANGIE MONKMAN wrote:Hi everyone I have just seen Grey Male mating with light green female, what babies will I get please ? I have tried to follow genetics but too hard lol x
depends what you mean by 'light green' - but I'm assuming that you mean either a Green Pallid or a Green Cinnamon.

Grey x Green Pallid will produce Greygreen and Green chicks, with the cocks being split Blue and Pallid, while hens being only split for Blue


Grey x Green Cinnamon will produce Greygreen and Green chicks with the cocks split Blue and Cinnamon, while hens being only split for Blue.
Can you tell me what will be male or female please? Oh sorry how do I put pics on here to show you, many thanks
x

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sheyd
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:54 am

Angie- the chicks from the two possible pairings I gave above, would need to be surgical or dna'd sexed.

Pm me and I'll help you put a pic up if you want

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willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Fri May 17, 2013 1:17 am

Hi Lushen, and everyone else following this thread!

It's been awhile since I last visited - had a bit going on at home - but I've still been studying the mutations like crazy in my spare time. Have added 3 books to my library - Bastiaans 'Asiatic Parrots and their Mutations", Phil Robson's "The Indian Ringneck Breeders handbook", and Syd and Jack Smiths "Guide to Asiatic Parrots" - I can spend HOURS pouring over all the photos and info inside :)

Our new violetblue hen, Pepper, has settled in well, and both she and Skittles, our blue male (unknown genetics), have well and truly bonded. On the advice of an Australian breeder, we have given them a breeding box this year, more as a practice run, rather than expecting much to come of it. Pepper is only 8 months old now, so still too young to expect much. They are great little mates though - until one has a toy or bit of food that the other wants - and then it's wrestling with desired object until one or the other wins out and flies off in a great hurry! :)

Looking forward to the next round of lessons Lushen. Hope your flock is doing well, and looking forward to seeing what your breeding season produces this year :)
Regards Deb

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Lushen1600
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Fri May 17, 2013 11:29 pm

Hi Deb, nice to see you back online, I have not been online much due to studying for my final 2 papers which I write on Monday and Wednesday., once those 2 are over I will be able to come online more frequently.

I will get more lessons on as soon as I'm free and will continue with breeding of recessive mutation to the green series, so you can practice calculating a few on your own and see what you get.

My flock is doing well, but as usual I'm sure mine will be the last to go down, as I have found in the past 2 years, so only expecting my first eggs at the end of July or beginning of August. I'm also curious as to what babies I will produce this season as I have paired up 10 pairs for this season and have changed around most of my pairings as compared to last season, leaving only 2 pairs the same as last season. I have also sold and/or swopped some of my birds for other mutations. I'm not sure if I'm going to do a daily update as I have done last season but will decide at the beginning of July.

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Sun May 19, 2013 10:28 pm

Hi Lushen,

Great to hear from you too. Hope your studies are going well, and glad to hear you are nearing completion :)

I can understand your hesitation at doing a daily update this year of your breeding results - it must have put a lot of pressure on your time last year, given you were in the midst of all that study also! Top marks for your efforts though - I found the thread really interesting, not to say informative as well :) You will of course keep your own daily records for future use, but even a weekly/bi-weekly update for us here in the forum would be much appreciated by all, I'm sure, and for newbies like me, very helpful too :D
Have you listed somewhere in one of the threads what pairs you've put together this year? I notice your 'signature' doesn't list them this time around :wink:

I'll be off now, and do the homework you set earlier :D .... Look forward to the next installment, when you have a bit more time on your hands.
Regards Deb

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Lushen1600
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Sun May 26, 2013 1:51 pm

Hi Deb, I will consider doing a thread with a list of all my pairings for the 2013 breeding season and may even do either a weekly or bi-weekly updates. I cannot promise daily updates due to time constraints, but will try and do my best with as many pics as possible.

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

trabots
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by trabots » Sun May 26, 2013 5:26 pm

I have paired up 10 pairs for this season and have changed around most of my pairings as compared to last season
I would like to get other people's experiences with re-pairing IRNs. I lost 2 cocks last year after pairing them to several year experienced hens which proceeded to kill them right when the others had started laying. Is this an experience had by others? Last year I also tried 4 pairs with early bred year old hens and had 3 of them produce clutches. The pairings weren't ideal so the now 'experienced ' 2yo hens are paired with what I really wanted them paired with. I am hoping they will be more accepting of their new mates than the older hens are.

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S » Sun May 26, 2013 11:19 pm

Willy, we have had similar experience. My dad lost a violet cock a couple of weeks ago to an aggressive hen. What seems to work best for us is to re-pair the new pairs straight after the breeding season while they are still moulting. The hens seem to be more docile during this time. My dad and I also have the luxury that we swap certain birds over Dec/Jan when I visit down there. I find it rather strange that certain hens will not bond very tightly with cocks, and these esp. will get new cocks every year. But, we also have our share of hens that cause the problems you are describing.

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Lushen1600
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 » Mon May 27, 2013 3:52 am

Hi Willy, as Johan said its better to do you pairings early if you want to swop your hens around, which is exactly what I have done, but I have found that in the past few weeks, I had a male start to chase a female, and had to swop her with another hen, and also had 2 hens chasing males and had to make some swops of hens there as well, but all seems to be fine now, and I only have 1 pair that is the same as last year, all the others have been changed around. Although some pairs are not what I would have wanted to pair up, but I guess we can't always have our way, and if the birds are not happy with the partner I have selected, then I change them around, as I wouldn't want to lose any cocks or hens through fighting

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:08 am

Hi Lushen

Although it would be of interest to follow your pairings this year, I appreciate you have a busy time ahead. The occasional update on their progress would be great :)

Sorry to hear about your Derbyan cock, Molossus - and Willy, that's distressing about the loss of your IRN cocks.
It's the one thing I still fear with my pair, although I'm hopeful that given my blue cock is a mature bird, and our violet hen is only 8 months old, that she will be ok with him. She is definately the more dominant of the pair. They play together quite well during the day when outside their cages, only occasionally squabbling over a toy or piece of food. She will submit (hunch down with head tilted back) when he does his courting dance with her - most of the time anyway. They do still have separate cages, and although she thinks it's her given right to go into his cage whenever she likes, if she catches him in HER cage then she charges in and chases him around until he can make his escape. She has had "sleep overs" in his cage at night a number of times, but we leave his door unlatched when she does, just in case she decides to have a go at him and he can't escape her. And he certainly looks rather uncomfortable when she IS having a sleep over in his cage. Time will tell I guess. We were hoping that they would be sharing a cage by now, but still aren't confident about leaving them locked in the same cage unattended, so the two cages remain for now.
Regards Deb

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Terje
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Terje » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:51 am

Lushen1600 wrote:Hi Deb, grey is a blue series bird, so you will get blue babies by putting 2 grey birds together, unless of course 1 bird is a double factor grey then you will get all grey babies, seeing that you got 1 blue baby, that would mean that both your birds are single factor, will explain all this in more detail in future lessons

Thanks
Lushen
I love this thread, I'm just beginning to scrape the surface of it - but the above quote has me puzzled. No matter how I put in two grey parents, no blue comes out as a result.


1.0 grey(sf) green
x 0.1 grey(sf) green
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 grey(df) green
50.0% 1.0 grey(sf) green
25.0% 1.0 green
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 grey(df) green
50.0% 0.1 grey(sf) green
25.0% 0.1 green
Calculated on 29 Apr 2014 11:47:35 , Prague


How is does this work with grey being a blue series bird?

Terje

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willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:36 am

Hi Terje,

By only checking the (sf) grey button, you are actually choosing the green series grey mutation, in other words, grey-green. To select a visually GREY bird, you need to check both the grey and the blue button's, hence, a grey blue bird. You should get the following:
1.0 grey(sf) blue
x 0.1 grey(sf) blue
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 grey(df) blue
50.0% 1.0 grey(sf) blue
25.0% 1.0 blue
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 grey(df) blue
50.0% 0.1 grey(sf) blue
25.0% 0.1 blue

Hope this helps :)

PS; I should specify - check both GREY and BLUE buttons in the VISUAL column :)
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Mad Max » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:13 am

here is a nicecombination for us to work on

1-0 cleartail Violet Blue / Ino X 0-1 Turquoise Violet Blue /cleartail

The challange is going to be with the ino and turquoise ino's
I.E how will you Identify a cleartail verses a normal bird
Also how will you identify a sf and df in the ino's and turquoise ino's
Thoughts Please
Regards
Robert

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Terje
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Terje » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:27 am

I'd love to se a photo of a turquoise blue violet, because with one of my two new additions ( DD violet cobalt (does that mean dark?), combined with either of the two I have (a turquoise pallid pair), that seems to come up a lot when I do test matings in the calculator. I don't even know what that is! LOL

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willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:10 pm

Wow, Robert (MadMax)…..what a combination! My head is spinning, just trying to separate all the variations from this combo :shock:

So, firstly, the difference between the normal coloured chicks and the clear tails (without taking into consideration the splits at this point), the clear tails should differ in colour of the tails(when they grow in), but also the bottom half of the belly should be white/cream?? (heads take a couple of moults to become "clear" in the cock birds). I've heard the toenails are 'snow white' at birth as well, but not sure on the validity of that?

From this pairing you'll also get albino/albino looking hens, i.e. blue ino, blue violet ino, turquoise blue ino, turq blue violet ino, and again all in clear tail ino, but these birds essentially will look pure white, as the ino masks the others. All hens will either be clear tail or split to clear tail, and some (sf) and (df) in the violet blues and turq violet blues.

Cocks you'll get clear tails, some split to ino, and normals, split to clear tail and/or ino, some (sf) and some (df) in the violet blues and turquoise violet blues.

No idea how you would identify the sf and df in the ino's and turn ino's.

Interested to see others thoughts on this pairing? A bit mind-boggling for my level of understanding :)

Terje - DD signifies Double Dark, so a DD Blue = Mauve. Cobalt = Dark Blue, or D Blue. Trying to get my head around your DD violet Cobalt? Would love to see a pic :)
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:56 pm

Terje - DD signifies Double Dark, so a DD Blue = Mauve. Cobalt = Dark Blue, or D Blue. Trying to get my head around your DD violet Cobalt? Would love to see a pic :)
Deb,

You got pretty much everything spot on, you're getting pretty good at genetics. :)
Trying to get my head around your DD violet Cobalt?
I guess this is a typo as you have written just before it a DD Blue is a Mauve therefore can not have Mauve Cobalt bird (DDD Blue)
it'd be just Mauve (DD Blue), a Mauve Violet is a greyish looking bird with some violet tinge seen at rump/tail etc.

Robert
If you part with any offspring cockbirds from that pair, make sure you mention possible split INO to the breeder getting the bird/s, since it is not possible to tell which cockbird is split ino visually.
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:06 am

Ring0Neck wrote:Deb,

You got pretty much everything spot on, you're getting pretty good at genetics.
Hi Ring0, thanks for the encouragement - work keeps me pretty busy these days, but I still find time to try and keep up with my understanding of genetics :) It's all based on paper though, as I still only have the one pair, 1.0 Blue x 0.1 (sf) violet blue - and still no luck with breeding them as yet, but maybe they'll go down this season (if my male ever works out what to do!) :)

And yeah, the DD Violet Cobalt was a little puzzling, as you are correct in saying that it can't be DD as well as Cobalt - possibly DD violet as you suggest, or perhaps even a (df) violet cobalt (not sure if I've written that in correct format, but essentially a Dark Double factor Violetblue is what I'm getting at). Parentage would be helpful in guessing better what Terje's new bird's mutation could be.
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Terje » Fri May 02, 2014 1:09 pm

Deb, I'm just repeating what my very inexperienced ears thought they heard the breeder say. Maybe there is no such thing. :oops: 10 days from now, he/she will be here. I know there was cobalt blue in the same clutch.
Here he/she is; and also the father. Here in Holland they often talk about (directly translated) "whitehead/whitetail" - which must mean something like clearhead/cleartail, but aren't those two separate mutations? Anyhow, the father is split for this, and mine might be. Excuse my ignorance, but every time someone corrects me, I get a little wiser 8) I'll make sure to take some photos of both parent birds when I pick him up.
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 » Fri May 02, 2014 8:45 pm

Hi Terje, I hope i didn't offend you by questioning the mutation of your new IRN - that was not my intention, I assure you! To be honest, 2 years ago, I didn't even know what an Indian Ringneck was, let alone what colours/mutations they came in, lol :lol: I have merely become so intrigued with the breed, that any bird of unknown or uncertain mutation/parentage becomes a personal challenge for myself to try and work out what the possibilities are :D :D When I first started learning about the mutations of IRNs, I was completely bamboozled to start with - but with the help of some very patient and understanding people from this site, and lots of research, it suddenly all began to make more sense - yet I still have so much more to learn! I have to admit, when they start talking heterozygous and homozygous etc, I get a little lost in the woods on that one ( I THINK I understand the basics, but haven't had much time to study that side of things yet :) ) Anyway, you have come to the right place if it's IRNs and their mutations you want to learn about. This is a great forum.

And yes you are correct, 'whitehead-whitetail' and 'clearhead-cleartail' (CHCT) are the same thing - CHCT is just the term that covers both blue series birds (WHWT) and green series birds 'yellowhead-yellowtail' (YHYT).

Thanks for the pics of your new hub, and his/her father - he's a good-looking bird, and if he is split CHCT, then I wonder if the mother is also either CHCT or split CHCT? Looking at the pic of the dad, I can see a pale-fronted bird at the back of his cage (to the left) on a perch. I wonder if that's mum, or one of the chicks?
Either way, your bub looks gorgeous, although the lighting in the pic makes it hard for a novice like me to accurately guess the colour. I would think there's at least the violet in him/her, and possibly Dark(Cobalt)….? But perhaps some of the more experienced breeders could give you some input? I've not ever seen a cobalt in the flesh (or feather, so to speak :P ), only photo's - and we all know how one pic can differ from the next, depending on light conditions :)

Anyway, I'd love to see pics of both parents if it's possible when you pick up your new bub. I'm sure you are waiting with much anticipation :)

PS: I'm thinking the dad may be double factor violet - based on comparison with my (sf) violet hen - he seems that way in the pic at least! So I'd be interested to know what the mum is, and have a play around with the GenCalc. If dad is say, (df)Violetblue/CHCT, mum might be D Blue, and CHCT or split CHCT…???
Regards Deb

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Mad Max » Sat May 03, 2014 2:49 pm

Hi All
Back again (Finger trouble with internet)

As Willwisp71 rightfully said all the males from that pair would be possable split ino (If I do decide to sell , I will let the buyers know what the parents of these birds are) , but thats not what I am after . I want to see what effect Opaline has on Ino or Creamino , The reason for the pairing .
If I am correct I think the Violet or even better a df Violet Ino will be a white bodied bird with a very nice dark head .If I am wrong then its back to the drawing board 8)

regards
Robert

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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Terje » Sun May 18, 2014 2:59 am

Ok, so here is my new baby, from a violet cock and cobalt hen - that's all I know. What can you guys tell me about the color/genetics here? I chose a different and younger one than the one in my previous post, so disregard that info, this is from a different set of parents.
Terje
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AHMED
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by AHMED » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:47 pm

Dear freind Lushen1600;
pls .. how can I choose somethings like: aqua turquoise .. creamino .. mauve lovebirds at Genetic Calculator?
thanks a lot
Last edited by AHMED on Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

AHMED
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by AHMED » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:49 am

Dear Friend Lushen1600;
How Are you ... wish you good luck & Health
pls I want to know how to choose : Fallow at Genetic Calculator
thanks a lot

AHMED
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by AHMED » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:42 am

Dear Friend Lushen1600;
How Are you ... wish you good luck & Health
at Genetic Calculator ... pls I want to know how to choose: Male: Green Opaline Orange split Lutino & Female Lutino Opaline Orange
I wish to answer me pls .. I have 3 Questions without answer
thanks a lot

AHMED
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by AHMED » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:36 am

Lushen1600 wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:31 am
Hi King Kong, I once asked about why and what to use the x1, x2 for on this forum and from the answer I got, this is how I've accustomed myself to use the calculator, here is a link to that thread
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15361
As for the T1, T2, that's a good question, which I have never asked as I don't have any dark mutation birds that are split for blue or turquiose, therefore would like to ask the more experienced guys to answer this one as I'm not sure how and why would one select either the T1 or T2 option, if there is a thread where this query has been answered, please refer us to it.

Dear Lushen 1600
If the bird Split to DF AQUA (Single Dark Factor Aqua) Or Split to DF TURQUOISE (Single Dark Factor Turquoise); we choose (T1) if the Dark Factor comes from Cock and (T2) if it comes from Hen.
thanks[/img][/img]

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