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powjoyce
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peanuts

Post by powjoyce » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:46 pm

can irn eat roasted peanuts in the shells? they r not the salty ones?

powjoyce
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Re: peanuts

Post by powjoyce » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:37 pm

IS THERE ANYONE THAT CAN HELP ME OUT PLEASE.....TKS

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xx_sheena_xx
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Re: peanuts

Post by xx_sheena_xx » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:17 pm

I would say no, because peanuts that are in there shell can sometimes have bad bacteria in them which we cant see which can course your bird to get ill

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Re: peanuts

Post by Kray Twins » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:33 am

I always give my guys a couple of "Monkey Nuts", and they love them. They also know the bad ones from the good ones pretty well they're intelligent birds.

There may be bacteria in any of the food you give them or the water they drink perhaps we should stop giving that to them too?!

1 or 2 shouldn't hurt...

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ellieelectrons
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Re: peanuts

Post by ellieelectrons » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:41 pm

I remember reading on another thread that if you give them peanuts in shells that are meant for human consumption they should be ok (that is, the quality controls on human food are such that they shouldn't have any bacteria)... and of course, have them in moderation because nuts are very fatty.

Ellie.

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kyria
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Re: peanuts

Post by kyria » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:06 am

I have not heard of anything against peanuts in the shell from the supermarket kind being bad, mine love to tear them apart.
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oldguy
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Re: peanuts

Post by oldguy » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:51 pm

I've considered the pros and cons of the peanut issue for a long time. I think the bottom line is that they are a highly nutritious legume (not a nut), high in protein, and while high in fat, it is the GOOD fat, and as a legume, peanuts complete some fragmentary amino acids in grains -- think beans and rice.

The issue with raw peanuts is a fungus, not a bacteria, and this fungus is endemic in peanuts -- to hear people's alarm about it. But recent information suggests that when the peanuts are roasted, the fungus is "minimized". No documentation was provided in the article where I read this, so I have no idea the degree to which it is 'minimized'.

But I provide my birds with unslated roasted peanuts along with Walnuts, almonds, seeds, pellets, fresh carrot, corn, broccoli, apple, orange, grapes green and red, pomegranate and blueberries,dandelion adn carrot greens, spinach, altogether, as available, on a daily basis, to my Amazons, the ringnecks, the quakers, and conure.

Some days they devour the peanuts and other days they ignore them completely.

I rely on their natural "appetite" to direct them to the foods that contain the nutrients they need at any one moment. As long as all the choices are available each day, they don't binge on any one item that they haven't seen in a while.

Although at the beginning of the seasons for pomegranates and blueberries, and in the fall, when I bring in huge crabapple branches laden with pea-sized apples, they go NUTS and binge, before leveling off in later days.

A diet rich in fresh fruits and vegetabes not only has a naturally limiting effect on the peanuts, but provides the necessary nutrients to process the peanuts in the best way.

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Melika
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Re: peanuts

Post by Melika » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:26 pm

oldguy wrote:I've considered the pros and cons of the peanut issue for a long time. I think the bottom line is that they are a highly nutritious legume (not a nut), high in protein, and while high in fat, it is the GOOD fat, and as a legume, peanuts complete some fragmentary amino acids in grains -- think beans and rice.

The issue with raw peanuts is a fungus, not a bacteria, and this fungus is endemic in peanuts -- to hear people's alarm about it. But recent information suggests that when the peanuts are roasted, the fungus is "minimized". No documentation was provided in the article where I read this, so I have no idea the degree to which it is 'minimized'.

But I provide my birds with unslated roasted peanuts along with Walnuts, almonds, seeds, pellets, fresh carrot, corn, broccoli, apple, orange, grapes green and red, pomegranate and blueberries,dandelion adn carrot greens, spinach, altogether, as available, on a daily basis, to my Amazons, the ringnecks, the quakers, and conure.

Some days they devour the peanuts and other days they ignore them completely.

I rely on their natural "appetite" to direct them to the foods that contain the nutrients they need at any one moment. As long as all the choices are available each day, they don't binge on any one item that they haven't seen in a while.

Although at the beginning of the seasons for pomegranates and blueberries, and in the fall, when I bring in huge crabapple branches laden with pea-sized apples, they go NUTS and binge, before leveling off in later days.

A diet rich in fresh fruits and vegetabes not only has a naturally limiting effect on the peanuts, but provides the necessary nutrients to process the peanuts in the best way.
Agreed, unsalted peanuts are a great food. For a long while I was a 'no peanuts for parrots' person, but over the past few years and much more reading, I ended up with a more midline view.
ellieelectrons wrote:I remember reading on another thread that if you give them peanuts in shells that are meant for human consumption they should be ok (that is, the quality controls on human food are such that they shouldn't have any [fungus])... and of course, have them in moderation because nuts are very fatty.

Ellie.
As Ellie was saying, peanuts meant for human consumption are reasonably safe. Much testing is done during processing- if just one peanut is found with aspergillus on/in it in higher concentrations than is allowed, the whole batch is considered contaminated and cannot be sold for humans. Note that low amounts of aspergillus are allowed. Feed 'contaminiated' with aspergillus given to cows has also been shown to contaminate the dairy they produce.


For general information:

Aspergillus is a fungus that is most often found in peanuts in the shell and corn. An infection from this fungus is called Aspergillosis. Unfortunately the avian respiratory system is generally not very good at getting rid of pathogens once an infection settles in. Fortunately, the mucus membranes first have to be injured in some way for infection to easily set in.

Vitamin A deficiency might be the actual problem, with aspergillosis being a secondary (and lethal) infection. This deficiency, while common, is also the most easily preventable through a proper diet. Amazons were once thought to be especially vulnerable to aspergillus but it was found that the actual cause was Vitamin A deficiency.
http://www.multiscope.com/hotspot/vitamina.htm

Sources for aspergillus spores: everywhere. It is in the ground outside, therefore there are spores in your air. As with any fungus, it likes moisture. More moist environs especially with damp litter are great homes for fungus. A dirty cage which gets wet from a bird bath is a better home for aspergillus spores to make a home and release even more spores. If your backyard floods often or stays very moist (talking to you over-irrigators here) the fungal load in your yard will be higher and more spores will be in the air for your body to fight against.

Your best bet is prevention when it comes to aspergillosis. Make sure your parrot is healthy and getting enough vitamin A. Avoid creating areas where aspergillus thrives and can overwhelm the system.

Also, roasting has not been shown to reduce aspergillus spores as of yet.
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oldguy
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Re: peanuts

Post by oldguy » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:21 pm

What a great and comprehensive post ! Thanks very much.

"Also, roasting has not been shown to reduce aspergillus spores as of yet."

I'll have to go back and find out where I read that roasting minimizes, and post the source. Still, minimizing doesn't get rid of the threat. I remember switching from raw peanuts to roasted when I read this and I also read that Valencia peanuts are not infected because they are grown in cooler climate or some such (I'll have to find where I read THAT), but they can't be found in-shell for my birds. But I buy organic, shelled for my morning cereal at the health food store.

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Melika
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Re: peanuts

Post by Melika » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:13 pm

Shelled peanuts have a much lower chance of having a lot of aspergillus in general, but not always. Much of this depends upon the storage. Freezing seems to be the most recommended for long term storage.

I'm not sure where it is grown counts, as most aspergillus growth will tend to happen while the nuts are in storage. Even grains in bulk bins in stores will have at least some aspergillus growing on it (added more info in the edit).

Aspergillus really isn't something one can escape, so I don't follow the paranoid hype so much. Just like anything else in our environment that is harmful (natural or not) we can take reasonable measures to reduce the harm and make sure our bodies are strong enough to fight it. Or in this case, our bird's bodies. Though I do feel that if it worries you, just avoid feeding peanuts. :)

There is a blood test for parrots for aspergillosis.

More information:

http://www.avianweb.com/aspergillosis.html
The article is wrong in one point though, saying "Roasting reduces aflatoxin but does not eliminate it entirely." Actually, it's the aspergillus that creates the aflatoxin. If the aflatoxin is already made, cooking/roasting cannot remove it. What roasting does is basically stunt the aspergillus for a little while. Once it is in storage again though, it can grow. The speed of the growth will of course be dependent on humidity (aspergillus only needs 7% humidity) and temperature. Aflatoxins are considered to be one of the worst carcinogens. It goes on to explain a weakened immune system comes first, then the aspergillosis.

While I do see a lot of people claim that roasting prevents or kills aspergillus, the studies I see say otherwise. In fact, this study seems to indicate no difference: "However [Aspergillus] flavus had the highest contamination mean value in dry roasted and raw form of peanut and pistachio kernels." The study also indicates that aspergillus grows in much lower humidity than some other common fungi but might need a higher temperature to thrive. http://www.faqs.org/periodicals/201007/2059460281.html

I found this to be an interesting discussion: http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/007598.html
Aside from the glaring error (it's Aspergillus FLAVUS, not Vlavus lol) there are some good points being brought up. I do want to add one thing though- keep in mind that a human can handle a lot more 'toxin' than a little bird. Consider the ratio of peanuts you ingest to your size and the ratio a parrot ingests to its size. Now consider the amount of aspergillus also ingested to the size of the creature. I would postulate that it takes far less aspergillus ingestion to overload a parrot than a human.


Edit: Okay did more research and this is what I found regarding valencia peanuts.

Firstly, valencia peanuts are grown all over the world in many different climates. There are also many different types of valencia peanuts. Some genotypes are slightly more resistant to Aspergillus flavus and others are actually more susceptible. Other types of valencia peanuts are resistant when unripe but not so when ripe. In all cases these were samples tested in the ground or freshly harvested.
http://pinnacle.allenpress.com/doi/pdf/ ... 679-14-1-5
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke ... ogaea.html
http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-prev ... ze=largest


I did find one study on aflatoxins/aspergillus in storage. In a closed silo, the measured aflatoxin levels dropped but as the storage continued, they began to rise (at the end of the four month study the aflatoxin levels had risen back to fifty percent of the starting point).
http://genemol.org/sheila/sheila-02.pdf

From what I can find, it seems that the FDA/USDA tests for aflatoxins and not aspergillus. Aflatoxins, as explained earlier, are created by aspergillus. Also (and I found this alarming) it also seems that nuts being imported into the USA from some countries are only subject to voluntary aflatoxin testing.

While aflatoxicosis is a completely separate thing from aspergillosis, the presence of aflatoxins indicates the presence of aspergillus. Also, humans have a markedly higher tolerance for aflatoxins than do animals.

Edit 2: Forgot to mention this interesting tidbit, valencia peanuts might be difficult to find in the shell because they seem to be more prone to a black spot disease of the shell. Who would buy black spotted peanuts?
Last edited by Melika on Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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oldguy
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Re: peanuts

Post by oldguy » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:47 am

wow

you are a GOD to me, now.

I am trying to shift all my birds from peanuts to walnuts which have the oil highest in antioxidents, though not a legume like peanuts which complete some incomplete amino acids in the grains (think beans and rice).

And while I understand that almonds are lowest in fat among the nuts, they are none-the-less subject to the same fungal problems as peanuts.

I haven't heard the same about walnuts. yet.

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Melika
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Re: peanuts

Post by Melika » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:25 pm

This really should be in the diet section..

Walnuts have, like all the rest, aspergillus. Some interesting stuff is out there about the variety of walnut called Tulare and resistance to aflatoxin, but not necessarily to aspergillus. They're finding that it's higher in gallic acid which inhibits the aspergillus' ability to produce aflatoxins. Doesn't solve the original aspergillus question, but hey it's interesting. Unfortunately most studies on aspergillus are in relation to aflatoxicosis since that is the major human concern.

I still take a middle view, I don't ban peanuts but they're not a daily offering either. Like everything, feed in moderation.


Also, thanks for the appreciation, that post took five+ hours to write/research. :)
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oldguy
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Re: peanuts

Post by oldguy » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:05 pm

Melika: Are you a nutritionist or dietition or a chemist?

baraveryhelles
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Re: peanuts

Post by baraveryhelles » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:21 am

Freeze shelled peanuts during the night and rub off the skin with your fingers before roasting. It is very good, if some of the skins remain on. For peanuts in the shell leave East.

oldguy
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Re: peanuts

Post by oldguy » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:27 am

baraveryhelles: I didn't understand what is meant by "leave East" in your concluding remark: "For peanuts in the shell leave East."

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