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Olive and Grey

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romes86
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:25 am

Olive and Grey

Post by romes86 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:35 am

I don't see olive in any of the genetic calculators. I'm looking for thoughts on a combination of Olive Male and Grey Female. Since Grey is Dominant will the result be "all" grey babies both male and female?

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madas
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Re: Olive and Grey

Post by madas » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:47 am

romes86 wrote:I don't see olive in any of the genetic calculators. I'm looking for thoughts on a combination of Olive Male and Grey Female. Since Grey is Dominant will the result be "all" grey babies both male and female?
What's your meaning of olive? A true olive is double factor darkgreen bird. it can be easily mixed up with greygreen, which is formerly known as olivgreen. So do you really have a df darkgreen bird?

I think your bird is a greygreen bird. if this is the truth then you can expect the following offspring:

25.0% grey(df) green /blue
50.0% grey(sf) green /blue
25.0% green /blue

if this bird is also split for blue then the offspring will look like this:

12.5% grey(df) blue
25.0% grey(sf) blue
12.5% blue
12.5% grey(df) green /blue
25.0% grey(sf) green /blue
12.5% green /blue

Greetings.

PS: grey blue is a visual grey bird.

Recio
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Location: France

Re: Olive and Grey

Post by Recio » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:43 am

Hi;

As Madas says olive birds (df dark green) are very rare and expensive, but just in case it was a true olive ... how do act structural mutations among them. I mean: which is the relation among dark, grey and violet in green and blue series? Is there any difference if working with sf or df birds for each mutation? All these mutations will change the structure of the feathers and the expression of one of them can mask the expression of the other/s.

Grey will mask violet in blue series (although some strains of grey can still show some violet feathers in the "undertail"), but .... how does it act on the green series?

Does dark increase the deepness of grey in blue series? and what happens if considering df dark?

And violet with dark? ... and all 3 mutations together?

Cheers

Recio

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madas
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Re: Olive and Grey

Post by madas » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:24 pm

Recio wrote:Hi;

As Madas says olive birds (df dark green) are very rare and expensive
and btw. not easy to distinguish from a greygreen for a non expert (and for me too :) ). the (only) difference is the color of the tail feathers.
greygreen has a grey/dark grey tail and olive has a dark blue to mauve (looks like grey) tail.

i think that a df grey bird will mask the violet or dark gen completly. But i have never seen such bird.
A nice cobalt grey is shown here: http://ringneckmutations.com/default.aspx

Image

As you can see there is a little difference between this bird and a normal grey bird. but in my opinion the bird looks like a mauve. so the same thing not easy to distinguish.

Here is a picture of a mauve violet bird (next to a grey bird):

Image

So no much violet is shown in a df dark blue (mauve) bird.

Hope this help a little bit.

greetings.

Recio
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:09 am
Location: France

Re: Olive and Grey

Post by Recio » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:12 pm

Thank you Madas for your answer and beautifull pics,

I have been doing some research about changes in feather structure in structural mutations:

Dark would decrease the width of the spongy zone of 1/3. DF dark further decreses the width of the spongy zone (2/3). Since the spongy zone is necessary to refract blue light, dark induces cobalt (SF drak in blue series) or mauve (DF dark in blue series).

Grey inhibits the formation of the spongy zone, in SF or DF birds

Violet mutations changes the structure of the spongy zone.

So ... could we conclude that grey completely masks dark and violet?

Greetings

Recio

romes86
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:25 am

Re: Olive and Grey

Post by romes86 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:52 am

I purchased this particular Olive from a very reputable breeder in Taylor Michigan, Feathered Babies. I live in NY State. She assured me when I inquired that this particular Olive was not a "grey-green" mutation, but rather a "true" olive, and I believe that the tail meets your description of an Olive. I told her that it didn't matter to me if was a grey-green, but she still assured me that it was indeed a real "olive". If that is indeed the case and the female is pretty clearly a grey-blue per you pictures and discription what would be the likely result. Your expertise is quite amazing Madas and Recio and your help is greatly appreciated.

Recio
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Re: Olive and Grey

Post by Recio » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:59 pm

Hi;

Considering a true olive (DF dark green) male: possibilities:


1: Olive male (DF dark green) paired to SF grey female (SF grey blue) will produce:

Males:
50.0% 1.0 D grey(df) green D+/D;G/G;
50.0% 1.0 D green D+/D;

Females:
50.0% 0.1 D grey(df) green D+/D;G/G;
50.0% 0.1 D green D+/D;


2:Olive male (DF dark green) paired to DF grey female (DF grey blue) will produce:

Males:
100.0% 1.0 D grey(df) green D+/D;G/G;

Females:
100.0% 0.1 D grey(df) green D+/D;G/G;



Since the dark factor is used to get cobalts probably the olive male is split for blue. In this case you can obtain:


1: Olive male/blue (DF dark green/blue) paired to SF grey female (SF grey blue) will produce:

Males:
25.0% 1.0 D grey(df) green D+/D;G/G; ................. visual grey
25.0% 1.0 D green D+/D; .................................. visual dark green
25.0% 1.0 D grey(df) blue D+/D;G/G;bl/bl; ............. visual grey
25.0% 1.0 D blue D+/D;bl/bl; .............................. cobalt

Females:
25.0% 0.1 D grey(df) green D+/D;G/G;
25.0% 0.1 D green D+/D;
25.0% 0.1 D grey(df) blue D+/D;G/G;bl/bl;
25.0% 0.1 D blue D+/D;bl/bl;


2:Olive male/blue (DF dark green/blue) paired to DF grey female (DF grey blue) will produce:

Males:
50.0% 1.0 D grey(df) green D+/D;G/G; ................... visual grey green
50.0% 1.0 D grey(df) blue D+/D;G/G;bl/bl; ............... visual grey cobalt (like grey?)

Females:
50.0% 0.1 D grey(df) green D+/D;G/G;
50.0% 0.1 D grey(df) blue D+/D;G/G;bl/bl;


As you can see in any situation you will obtain the same % of any colours in males and females since we are not dealing with sex linked mutations.

Hope it helps

Recio

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