introducing turquoise into my whwt breeding stock

[sarah23]

hi all,
i have a hard decision to make. i want to get a turquoise hen for my violet whwt cock. i can choose between two excellent quality birds from a top breeder one a turquoise blue/whwt hen or turquoise grey/whwt hen. the breeder says the turquoise grey/whwt is masking cobalt as there is a slight cobalt colour on her rump and parents have produced cobalts in previous clutches. i don't have any pictures at the moment, but hoping to get some. both hens are 2011 and hoping they will lay this season (australia).
which would be the more desired pairing? i am aiming to produce nice violet turquoise white head white tails and of course can get this but will the grey turq/whwt offer me some nice variations or will the grey mask the violet and just not be nice?
i still love a good looking blue turq whwt bird so i am torn at which hen i should go for. if i had another spare cock i would of course try both
oh and also, let's say this grey turq/whwt hen is actually masking cobalt and is paired to a violet whwt cock can someone tell me if any cobalts could be produced this way? i don't quite understand the whole masking thing.....
thanks in advance!!

[Ring0Neck]

Hi Sarah,

It is a good question, it is entirely up to you to choose.
Indeed grey can mask the violet & cobalt and many would go for the turquoise blue/whwt
if you choose turquoise blue; offspring will be:
half the birds will be split whwt & half visual whwt in colors:
blue, violet, turquoise blue & turq. violet

If you choose grey turquoise and assume she is masking cobalt: (if both parents are cobalts maybe she is a Mauve?)
in OZ cobalt whwt is more expensive than violet whwt
(note: D= dark blue=Cobalt)
you will get:

D grey(sf) blue cleartail
0.875% 1.0 D grey(sf) blue /cleartail
0.875% 1.0 D grey(sf) blue violet(sf) cleartail
0.875% 1.0 D grey(sf) blue violet(sf) /cleartail
0.875% 1.0 D blue cleartail
0.875% 1.0 D blue /cleartail
0.875% 1.0 D blue violet(sf) cleartail
0.875% 1.0 D blue violet(sf) /cleartail
5.375% 1.0 grey(sf) blue cleartail
5.375% 1.0 grey(sf) blue /cleartail
5.375% 1.0 grey(sf) blue violet(sf) cleartail
5.375% 1.0 grey(sf) blue violet(sf) /cleartail
5.375% 1.0 blue cleartail
5.375% 1.0 blue /cleartail
5.375% 1.0 blue violet(sf) cleartail
5.375% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /cleartail
5.375% 1.0 D grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue cleartail
5.375% 1.0 D grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue /cleartail
5.375% 1.0 D grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue violet(sf) cleartail
5.375% 1.0 D grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue violet(sf) /cleartail
5.375% 1.0 D turquoise(parblue)Blue cleartail
5.375% 1.0 D turquoise(parblue)Blue /cleartail
5.375% 1.0 D turquoise(parblue)Blue violet(sf) cleartail
5.375% 1.0 D turquoise(parblue)Blue violet(sf) /cleartail
0.875% 1.0 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue cleartail
0.875% 1.0 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue /cleartail
0.875% 1.0 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue violet(sf) cleartail
0.875% 1.0 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue violet(sf) /cleartail
0.875% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue cleartail
0.875% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue /cleartail
0.875% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue violet(sf) cleartail
0.875% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue violet(sf) /cleartail


Half of your birds will carry grey and masking violet & cobalt.Masking means the bird is grey when you look at it but it will also produce young whatever color is masking (ie cobalt & violet)

60% go turquoise blue/whwt but 40% go grey masking cobalt/whwt (if indeed is masking cobalt)

I sometimes take the less travelled path and i'd go for grey especially if both parents were carrying cobalt with the chance the hen is a mauve/whwt. with grey you will have surprises; nasty or nice depending on your luck.
a cobalt violet turquoise whwt is a standout bird if you lucky to breed it.

* The risk: it may not be masking cobalt if only 1 parent was cobalt.

[sarah23]

great thank you for your help! i believe only one parent (hen) is cobalt. just a question what does it mean when it says grey turquoise(parblue)Blue violet? what does this bird visually look like? is this masking violet? and also, if i go with the grey turq split and she is not masking cobalt will the violets produced still look decent in colour? i guess my question is if i take a risk and she isn't masking will i only end up with greys or grey masking birds?
thanks

[Ring0Neck]

just a question what does it mean when it says grey turquoise(parblue)Blue violet? what does this bird visually look like? is this masking violet? and also, if i go with the grey turq split and she is not masking cobalt will the violets produced still look decent in colour? i guess my question is if i take a risk and she isn't masking will i only end up with greys or grey masking birds?

grey turq. blue violet = looking at it it will be a grey turquoise
violets produced still look decent in colour ?- yes it does not affect the violet colored birds color.
lastly no, if she is only a turquoise grey/whwt you will get turq. blue blue, grey, grey turquoise, violets & turquoise violets in whwt and split whwt. it might take you longer (depending on luck) to breed your turquoise violet whwt.

[sarah23]

Thank you! You have been very helpful!

[Ring0Neck]

I know it is not a choice in your case but a violet turquoise/whwt hen would be best choice
this way you can hope for a double factor violet whwt & in turquoise, much darker birds and nicer.
cobalt split whwt costs more.

doing the numbers ; you'd pay an extra $200/300 or so to upgrade to violet turq./whwt
but the offspring over say first 4 young will probably amount to an additional $800 difference
so is it worth paying a little extra? i'd say yes. you'll recover your expenses quicker and some beautiful birds along the way

[sarah23]

yes i'd love to put my cock to a violet turq/whwt hen but i am doing a swap with the breeder with a split blue conure and no violet turq splits are available. but there is always next season if i breed a violet turq in split or visual i could use it for the future.