What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
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What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Hi all
I have been asking around for the difference between deep and cobolt ? only to determine if the deep mutation is a combination of violet ,blue and cobolt but in the blue series would that be possible
many thanks
I have been asking around for the difference between deep and cobolt ? only to determine if the deep mutation is a combination of violet ,blue and cobolt but in the blue series would that be possible
many thanks
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Hi
Deep has nothing to do with Violet at all, the quick and nasty answer to you question is:
Deep x Deep = DF Deep (A very deep blue bird)
Cobalt x Cobalt + Mauve (An almost Grey looking bird)
The combination of Violet Blue and Cobalt = Violet Cobalt
Regards,
Peter
Deep has nothing to do with Violet at all, the quick and nasty answer to you question is:
Deep x Deep = DF Deep (A very deep blue bird)
Cobalt x Cobalt + Mauve (An almost Grey looking bird)
The combination of Violet Blue and Cobalt = Violet Cobalt
Regards,
Peter
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Hi Peter
I disagree as deep is a blue series bird . The images shown is what cobolt looks like but when paired with the same does not produce a mauve or df violet .Deep is in my opinion a combination of cobolt and violet when paired together do not produce mauve or violet but darker blue birds which carry the behaviour pattern of the a cobolt violet combination . if this deep mutation is what it is why havent we had an exhistance in the other colours? ie grey surely a light grey, grey,deep grey and charcoal to black looking bird should exhist ?
Futher i have seen a violet blue bird in my opinion its a violet with alot of blue in it however when paired with a blue bird produced a violet and the so called deep bird and a cobolt which was much rich in colour . so how does that alter what have said that the supposidly is a new mutation
I disagree as deep is a blue series bird . The images shown is what cobolt looks like but when paired with the same does not produce a mauve or df violet .Deep is in my opinion a combination of cobolt and violet when paired together do not produce mauve or violet but darker blue birds which carry the behaviour pattern of the a cobolt violet combination . if this deep mutation is what it is why havent we had an exhistance in the other colours? ie grey surely a light grey, grey,deep grey and charcoal to black looking bird should exhist ?
Futher i have seen a violet blue bird in my opinion its a violet with alot of blue in it however when paired with a blue bird produced a violet and the so called deep bird and a cobolt which was much rich in colour . so how does that alter what have said that the supposidly is a new mutation
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Firstly, i have seen ...you have seen, looks like ...don't cut it when it comes to Genetical makeup of a bird.Futher i have seen a violet blue bird in my opinion its a violet with alot of blue in it however when paired with a blue bird produced a violet and the so called deep bird and a cobolt which was much rich in colour . so how does that alter what have said that the supposidly is a new mutation
Just because it looked different does not automatically make it a Deep mutation far from it. call it half cooked violet or cobalt.
how did this violet with lots of blue bred a cobalt and something else when it was paired to a blue? i don't get it, genetically does not make sense.i have seen a violet blue bird in my opinion its a violet with alot of blue in it
Based on what did you form that opinion? again what you have seen or heard?.. any breeder can tell you that your conclusion is without a doubt wrong.Deep is in my opinion a combination of cobolt and violet
I suggest you buy a few books on genetics, we can recommend some if you like.
Excuse my brut approach but you called it with a disagreement without anything that makes sense.
Many people call their light cobalt birds Deep which is wrong. Buy a deep mutation from a reputable breeder that can show breeding results and bloodline confirmation as to being a Deep mutation, breed with it then you can argue with facts if you have any.
If we were to take your approach on mutations this bird below would obviously be an Albino (a lutino with lots of blue)
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Farrz1, you are just a bit confused. All the mutations you mentioned, Deep, Violet, Dark (Cobalt = Dark Blue) are individual mutations which can occur in Green OR Blue series birds. They all just darken a green bird to varying degrees. As was mentioned a DF Dark Blue is a grey coloured bird called a Mauve, not very pretty but handy for breeding. Both Deep and Violet DF into darker versions of the SF Deep and Violet. All three can combine as in Deep Dark Blue or Deep Violet Blue or Dark Violet Blue etc etc. SF = one gene for the mutation. DF = two genes. When you start breeding these mutations and start combining them you immediately notice how close they look in some light and in other light how different they can be. This is the structural colour effect (no pigments involved) which produces the blues that we see and which can change what we see due to angle of incidence of the light its intensity and also the colour of the light which can change due to atmospheric conditions etc etc. The combination birds are even harder to ascertain such as a Deep Violet Blue is very hard to tell apart from a Dark Violet Blue or a DF Violet and so on. Look at my Photobucket library (Trabots) for images of most of these.
Don't be disheartened but do get Colour Mutations & Genetics in Parrots by Terry Martin from Birdkeeper magazine and have a very enjoyable read just as I did when I started breeding these critters. In fact I would say this book is essential.
Don't be disheartened but do get Colour Mutations & Genetics in Parrots by Terry Martin from Birdkeeper magazine and have a very enjoyable read just as I did when I started breeding these critters. In fact I would say this book is essential.
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- Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Hi all would it be correct in assuming that Deep is then a structural mutation and would act in the same way that Violet and Grey acts on both Green and Blue series birds.
What I mean by this is that in Blue Series we get
Violet(sf)Blue = Violet Blue
Grey(sf)Blue = Grey
Deep(sf)Blue = Deep Blue
So in the same sense would it act on green as follows
Violet(sf)Green = Violet Green
Grey(sf)Green = Greygreen
Deep(sf)Green = Deep Green <---- has this bird been bred???
Also if one were to pair a Deep(df)blue to a blue would all the chicks be Deep(sf)blue???
Thanks
Lushen
What I mean by this is that in Blue Series we get
Violet(sf)Blue = Violet Blue
Grey(sf)Blue = Grey
Deep(sf)Blue = Deep Blue
So in the same sense would it act on green as follows
Violet(sf)Green = Violet Green
Grey(sf)Green = Greygreen
Deep(sf)Green = Deep Green <---- has this bird been bred???
Also if one were to pair a Deep(df)blue to a blue would all the chicks be Deep(sf)blue???
Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Yes, and in DF Deep Green also.Deep(sf)Green = Deep Green <---- has this bird been bred???
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Peter let me rekindle your thoughts i am one of the very few bird breeders that have the deep mutation and alot of dominat pied as i have gathered that my stupid question might have rubed you in the wrong direction but to reasure you i have seen the birds from babu chauhan in england physically and inported the birds from him i have both the bloodlines the aus and the english version trust me there is no difference and once paird with sa birds the do produce different birds so try not to approach me in a different limeligtht as i have the birds and have bred with the deep mutation and trust me there is nothing fantastic about them just a different blue bird
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
in the pic none of the combination of colours you mentioned make that bird its obisiouly a dominat pied
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Hi Farzz1
You're almost right, a dom. df pied looks almost white in colour.
Although this mutation is called clear wing clear tail (not many around)
No offence intended previously, i just wanted to point out that there are logical steps to understanding a mutation without jumping to conclusions. We all think many things, but breeding results always has the last word.
I always question everything, but i am also very carefull how i draw a conclusion.
You're almost right, a dom. df pied looks almost white in colour.
Although this mutation is called clear wing clear tail (not many around)
No offence intended previously, i just wanted to point out that there are logical steps to understanding a mutation without jumping to conclusions. We all think many things, but breeding results always has the last word.
I always question everything, but i am also very carefull how i draw a conclusion.
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
once again thanks for that had i the full picture i would have determined that , a friend has imported that bird from babu chauhan its is here in sa alot more is to be bred and indeed a rare bird .are you sure that the bird in the pic is a ctcflight bird ?
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Farzz1
I am not 100% but it is on Chris's website - someone else's bird.
http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/mutations/
the DF pied pic from same website here:
I am not 100% but it is on Chris's website - someone else's bird.
http://www.mcw-indianringnecks.com.au/mutations/
the DF pied pic from same website here:
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Hi Ring0neck
Indeed i reconised that bird , a rare df pied that bird is now in holand apparently that the outcome of emerald dom pied df i thing more is to be established i was offered that bird to purchace but it worked out to be too expensive as i just imported a shipment of dom pied from aus at the time , my bad luck
Indeed i reconised that bird , a rare df pied that bird is now in holand apparently that the outcome of emerald dom pied df i thing more is to be established i was offered that bird to purchace but it worked out to be too expensive as i just imported a shipment of dom pied from aus at the time , my bad luck
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
this is a pic of the clear flight sent to me from babu and the same bird was exported to sa
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
i think i have uploaded a pic
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
hi can anybody help me upload a pic i am really finding this a challenge
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Send me the pic via email i will upload it for you.
madas
madas
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Farzz1, you are wrong, I'm afraid. Deep is most certainly not a blue series bird. It has been conclusively shown to be incomplete dominant and certainly exists in the green series. Furthermore, deep is not a combination of cobalt and violet. Actually, when talking combinations, you'll find it the other way around with some 'violet' birds in SA being sold actually being a combination of cobalt and deep. At least, what some breeders here reckon to be the same mutation as the Oz deep that was imported here and to Oz from Europe. I know a couple of breeders that have paired a 'violet' x 'violet' to breed mauve. How could that happen? Exactly the same way that you describe the breeding results you have observed. If we assume 'violet' = cobalt deep, then cobalt deep x blue could breed cobalt, 'poor quality cobalt' = deep and 'violet' = cobalt deep. Just like cobalt deep x cobalt deep could breed mauve...Farzz1 wrote:Hi Peter
I disagree as deep is a blue series bird . The images shown is what cobolt looks like but when paired with the same does not produce a mauve or df violet .Deep is in my opinion a combination of cobolt and violet when paired together do not produce mauve or violet but darker blue birds which carry the behaviour pattern of the a cobolt violet combination . if this deep mutation is what it is why havent we had an exhistance in the other colours? ie grey surely a light grey, grey,deep grey and charcoal to black looking bird should exhist ?
Futher i have seen a violet blue bird in my opinion its a violet with alot of blue in it however when paired with a blue bird produced a violet and the so called deep bird and a cobolt which was much rich in colour . so how does that alter what have said that the supposidly is a new mutation
Some food for thought, and once you have digested the possibility, then we can discuss.
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Here are the pics of Farzz1:
madas
madas
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
thanks Midas for the upload i found that a challenge
Pic 1 is the clear flight blue sold to a south african breeder from babu chauhan ref Ring0neck the clear flight pic
Pic 3, is my reference to the deep that has been bred via a combination of blue cobolt and violet
Pic 5 is the deep that has been bred via the english and the aus both parents have been imported to sa
the remainder of the pics help me identify them and Johan i think you have taken them out ?
Pic 1 is the clear flight blue sold to a south african breeder from babu chauhan ref Ring0neck the clear flight pic
Pic 3, is my reference to the deep that has been bred via a combination of blue cobolt and violet
Pic 5 is the deep that has been bred via the english and the aus both parents have been imported to sa
the remainder of the pics help me identify them and Johan i think you have taken them out ?
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
hi all
Once again i have rubed the forum in the wrong direction however to be discussed show me a deep mutation in any other colour for example grey does that exhist ?
Once again i have rubed the forum in the wrong direction however to be discussed show me a deep mutation in any other colour for example grey does that exhist ?
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Hi all
I am very interested has anybody bred the deep bird in any other colour? and does DEEP mutation exist in other birds?
I am very interested has anybody bred the deep bird in any other colour? and does DEEP mutation exist in other birds?
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Farzz1
If you were to acquire say Azure or a similar new mutation would you put it to a grey?
It is obvious that you will not.
I will pair deep to a grey this coming season and i will keep everyone posted on this forum.
If you were to acquire say Azure or a similar new mutation would you put it to a grey?
It is obvious that you will not.
I will pair deep to a grey this coming season and i will keep everyone posted on this forum.
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
*bare with me...I'm learning!*
Is Deep a rare mutation? How many birds are estimated to have it? Can anyone share pictures of Deep birds or tell me where to find pictures of them? I'd like like to see the way it interacts with base colours.
Thanks
Is Deep a rare mutation? How many birds are estimated to have it? Can anyone share pictures of Deep birds or tell me where to find pictures of them? I'd like like to see the way it interacts with base colours.
Thanks
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
I have personally bred Deep IndigoBlue, Deep Pallid, Deep Pallid IndigoBlue, Deep EmeraldBlue, Deep TurquoiseBlue, Deep Violet Blue, DF Deep TurquoiseBlue. Ron has bred Deep Cinnamon Blue, Deep Dark Blue, Deep Dark TurquoiseBlue in addition to the combos I have just listed and probably others also. I also have Deep Violet TurquoiseBlue from another breeder.I am very interested has anybody bred the deep bird in any other colour?
Farrz1 you are on a mission to deny the uniqueness of the Deep and you insist that your 'Deep' Blue is a combination of Violet Blue and Cobalt. I have told you to stop emailing me privately with your beliefs and to discuss them openly on this forum. You have advised that you bred from one of these Violet Cobalt birds to a Deep Blue from Babu a DF Deep thereby proving what you say yet amongst all the images you sent me not one has a DF Deep Blue identified and none have another known mutation alongside to compare. The following re-posted image is an example of what you should strive to be doing if you have any hope of convincing people of anything AND learn some basic genetics.
Deep Blue, Blue, Dark Blue
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
hi
Definatly i will post the pics of them as there are two lots of birds one set i have in my averies and the other at my dad"s once i visit my dad soon i will take out the pics and post them , unfortunatly i am not on a mission to destroy the deep theory but somthing unique has happen in my breeding which defies what is said about the deep bird . once i have the pic i will post them for now we can leave the topic open-ended
Definatly i will post the pics of them as there are two lots of birds one set i have in my averies and the other at my dad"s once i visit my dad soon i will take out the pics and post them , unfortunatly i am not on a mission to destroy the deep theory but somthing unique has happen in my breeding which defies what is said about the deep bird . once i have the pic i will post them for now we can leave the topic open-ended
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
somthing unique has happen in my breeding which defies what is said about the deep bird
Then it is rather obvious that your bird is not a Deep
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- Posts: 499
- Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
- Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Hi to me with the above pic looks as if the Deep is definitely a different mutation as with all 3 mutations of deep blue, blue and dark blue in one pic, its obvious that its a different mutation. I do know that in each mutation one would get a range of colouration, meaning if you have to selectively breed blue ringnecks to get out the best blue colouration, you would have better looking blue birds than others and if you would have to put say 30 blues together from different breeders and different bloodlines, you will notice that they may differ slightly in colouration forming a pallette of blues from light to dark, but it will never go to the extent of coming close to a deep blue or dark blue, neither would a very lightly coloured dark blue come close to a deep blue or a blue. So in saying that I have to agree that the deep is another mutation at play and needs more breeding with other mutations to prove to the unbelievers that it is in fact a different mutationtrabots wrote:I have personally bred Deep IndigoBlue, Deep Pallid, Deep Pallid IndigoBlue, Deep EmeraldBlue, Deep TurquoiseBlue, Deep Violet Blue, DF Deep TurquoiseBlue. Ron has bred Deep Cinnamon Blue, Deep Dark Blue, Deep Dark TurquoiseBlue in addition to the combos I have just listed and probably others also. I also have Deep Violet TurquoiseBlue from another breeder.I am very interested has anybody bred the deep bird in any other colour?
Farrz1 you are on a mission to deny the uniqueness of the Deep and you insist that your 'Deep' Blue is a combination of Violet Blue and Cobalt. I have told you to stop emailing me privately with your beliefs and to discuss them openly on this forum. You have advised that you bred from one of these Violet Cobalt birds to a Deep Blue from Babu a DF Deep thereby proving what you say yet amongst all the images you sent me not one has a DF Deep Blue identified and none have another known mutation alongside to compare. The following re-posted image is an example of what you should strive to be doing if you have any hope of convincing people of anything AND learn some basic genetics.
Deep Blue, Blue, Dark Blue
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
I would like to make it known that I don't have any birds close to this mutation, but am making my comments through observation
Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Indeed! And there you go tell the entire world how much I try and travel to see birds.Farzz1 wrote:the remainder of the pics help me identify them and Johan i think you have taken them out ?
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
This years' young birds during first moult
DF Deep, Violet Mauve, DF Violet, Deep Blues
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
DF Deep, Violet Mauve, DF Violet, Deep Blues
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Hi Willy,
i there a chance that you can send me this pic in a bigger resolution? Especially i am interested in the mauve violet. If you have some more pics of this birds please feel free to send them too.
thx in advance.
PS: Emial = mada_s(at)ymail.com
i there a chance that you can send me this pic in a bigger resolution? Especially i am interested in the mauve violet. If you have some more pics of this birds please feel free to send them too.
thx in advance.
PS: Emial = mada_s(at)ymail.com
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Madas, the violet spots go away however the bird will retain a violet blush on the face and on the rump. I have a 4 yo Violet Mauve cock as well as having bred several more. They are always identifiable when fledging I have found.
Madas, the violet spots go away however the bird will retain a violet blush on the face and on the rump. I have a 4 yo Violet Mauve cock as well as having bred several more. They are always identifiable when fledging I have found.
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
thx Willy. Hopefully my mauve turns out to carry the violet gen gen too this season.trabots wrote:[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Madas, the violet spots go away however the bird will retain a violet blush on the face and on the rump. I have a 4 yo Violet Mauve cock as well as having bred several more. They are always identifiable when fledging I have found.
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Madas that bird is also Opaline, but then you knew that eh?
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
It's an opaline? Really??? ;) yeap i know ittrabots wrote:Madas that bird is also Opaline, but then you knew that eh?
Do you still thinking it is Mauve Violet?
I agree it's much easier to identify the violet in a mauve if it is a youngster. Remember the pics i have send you
last year. They showed much more violet over the whole body. Not much left at the moment.
greetings.
madas
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Madas, look at the darker head colour, the white stripe on the wing, the subtle variations on the back, the tail has much contrast. It is a stunner. Also if it is a Mauve it probably is a Violet, if that was a possible outcome.
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Hi
Madas that is definatly a Mauve violet opaline , a real beauty the violet is visable in the birds above the flight feathers of the bird and the tell-tale signs of an opaline is definatly visable on the bird
Tks
Madas that is definatly a Mauve violet opaline , a real beauty the violet is visable in the birds above the flight feathers of the bird and the tell-tale signs of an opaline is definatly visable on the bird
Tks
Re: What is the differednce between deep and cobolt
Got me Madas. Gotta look at the smiley's