Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

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Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi all, I seem to be getting a lot of queries via email and pm on how to use the genetic calculator, so I thought this would be a good idea to start a little course with lessons(will be done as I get the time) so that newbies can use this to learn how to use the genetic calculator for indian ringnecks on Gencalc.com

So first up let's start with the webpage to get to the genetic calculator

http://www.gencalc.com/gen/eng_genc.php?sp=0PsitIR

Firstly before we jump into calculations, let's look at the calculator and the various components/areas and understand what they mean, I know that this is going to be boring, but it is essential for you to understand this so when using the calculator you understand what you are entering where and why you are doing it.

Take for instance trying to drive a car for the first time if you don't know which pedal to press to accelerate or which one to press to brake or change gears, so the first driving lesson maybe boring as the instructor will explain the different components of the car to you, and you hardly or don't do any driving, so the same applies to the calculator, let's first understand the components to better understand the calculator. So bear with me through this boring few theory lessons until we get to the practical stuff

There are a few things that will be left out for now and explained in the future by me or by the more experienced guys and girls if they would like to help out, as I am also learning so I don't mind being taught and corrected where I am wrong.
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

So once you have this webpage, the following image will show for the top half of the calculator
Image

And the following image of the bottom half of the calculator
Image

So the first thing to look at on the top left of the calculator in the image of the top half is a column labelled "Symbol", for now let's leave this out, it will be explained at a much later stage

Next up is a column labelled "Mutations" under which are found various headings namely:-

"Structural"
"Dark-Blue Chromosome"
"Sex-Linked Recessive"
"Pieds"

And the last one has no name but for the purpose of this tutorial let's name it

"New"

The next column is for inheritance mode of the particular mutation, namely:-

DO - Autosomal Dominant
IN - Autosomal Incomplete Dominant
CD - Co-dominant
RE - Autosomal Recessive
SE - Sex-linked Recessive
L - Multi Alleles

For now let's also leave this out so as not to be confusing, if any of the experienced guys would like to explain "basics of genetics and inheritance" in simple form for newbies or put up web addresses where they can read and understand these concepts, you are most welcome to.

Next up is 2 major columns named

"1.0" - which simply stands for "Male" or "Cock"
&
"0.1" - which simply stands for "Female" or "Hen"

Under these are minor columns named

"Visual" - here is where you will tick what the actual visual colour of the bird is.

"Splits to" - here you will tick what genes the bird is split to

So to explain this further let's use a simple example of a Blue/ino cock
/ - is short for split to
So we have a blue cock which is split to ino
If you look at this blue/ino cock and compare it to a blue cock without any splits, both birds will look the same so when looking at a blue/ino cock you see a blue bird which is visual but you don't see the split "ino" which is hidden or not visual.
The ino here could have been inherit from the cocks father or mother.

So how would we enter this bird in the calculator, let's leave that for a future lesson. For now I will leave this discussion open for the more experienced guys to comment and correct me where I wrong so we can all head in the right direction
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Lushen.....can I please be the first one to THANKYOU, THANKYOU, THANKYOU!! for starting this thread and be willing to show us noobs a little about understanding all this genetics stuff? YAY! Oh, and I don't mind at all the "boring" bits to orientate us around the GenCalc........I'm a big fan of K.I.S.S :lol:
Regards Deb
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S »

Lushen, this is a contribution of note! Well done! :D

I wish the moderators would 'Sticky' this topic and that it can be maintained for all the questions about the genetic calculator. Would clean up the forum quite nicely.
Eshana
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:29 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Eshana »

Hi Lushen

Thank you so much....I can't explain how thrilled I am at this tutorial. Being new at keeping and breeding IRN's, I am an absolute dim wit when it comes to understanding mutations. I have been trying for so long to figure it out, but have failed miserably. I think I am probably one of those newbies asking too many 'stupid' questions that prompted you to start this tutorial site :lol: . You probably are sick of my endless questions, but I must thank you for having answered every question and for being so patient with me. Thank you again!

Warm Regards
Eshana
Eshana
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:29 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Eshana »

Sorry Lushen

You mention in your post that a blue/ino cock will look exactly the same as a blue cock, because the 'ino' is hidden, and is inherited from it's mother or father. What I'd like to know is how can we tell if a blue cock is 'ino' or not, since they both look the same? Do we have to get this information from the person we purchased the bird from (breeder)? In my case I have purchased birds and have no history on their parents. Will I only find out what they are after breeding them?
Sorry, too many questions again :lol: .

Cheers
Eshana
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi Willow and Eshana, I'm glad that you guys are happy that I have started this thread, but please be patient with me as I may not be able to do daily updates and lessons on this one due to time constraints, but will try not to go to many days without new lessons and replies

Hi Johan, thanks for your praises but for this to be successful, I'm gonna need you guys to help me along the way and correct me where I make mistakes, and also answers questions that I may not be able to.

Eshana to get to your question, theoretically, a blue/ino cock and a blue cock should look the same visually considering there is nothing more added ot hidden in the genetics. To know if a cock is blue/ino you will either need some history of the parents and of the bird in question, as to what colour chicks it has produced in previous seasons, failing which you will have to test breed the bird yourself to find out if it is a blue/ino cock, hope this answers your question

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Eshana
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:29 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Eshana »

Thanks Lushen

It does answer my question perfectly. But I have another question :oops: , if I do pair a blue cock to find out if it is 'ino', what hen do you suggest I pair it with? Must the hen be 'ino' too?

Thanks again

Cheers
Eshana
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Hi Eshana,

I'm glad you asked this question, because I too was wondering about my blue cock. I'm in the same boat as you, where I have absolutely no information on his parents genetics, or his own, as we found him after he escaped from somewhere. Although visually he is a blue, depending on the light, Skittles sometimes gets a violet hue around his head, at other times there's a distinct grey hue to his wings, and still other times where he has a slight green-ish tinge to his wings! He only has 3 tail feathers at present - a long central blue one, and 2 shorter ones each side that are a very pale blue, almost white. He's been with us for 2 and a half weeks now, only had the 3 tail feathers when we found him, and I've yet to see evidence of any others growing back, (perhaps it's too soon? No idea how long ago he lost them).

I asked the question earlier, of suitable coloured hens for Skittles, and I think it was Rod038 who gave me a basic rundown on what to expect in chicks colours if I put him with either a violet, grey or blue (or cobalt blue) hen. These 3 colours are my preference for a hen, and in that order.....not sure how we'll go at finding our first preference of a violet in Western Australia, but will deal with that when the time comes :D

And Lushen, no pressure at all on when/how often you update the lessons.....it'll give me ample time for it to sink in :lol: I'm just stoked that you are willing to teach us at all, so thankyou :)
Regards Deb
Ernest_sjn
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Ernest_sjn »

I don't know how to use the gen cal, where to put the albinos, apple green, light blue(torq x lacewing), etc.. I really am a novice to breeding..
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi all, thanks for the replies, before I move onto a new lesson, I'm going to place links to articles which I'm hoping may help you understand parrot genetics better and not confuse you. Firstly I would like for you to read through these articles and if you can print them out and keep them in a file for future reference. I know that after reading these articles many questions will come up, but I suggest for you to write your questions down on a page and you will see with time they will get answered as we go along with future lessons. So here are some articles to read.

http://www.bluequaker.com/Art-008.htm

http://www.flatratewebsites.com/sites/o ... etics.html

http://www.ringneckmutations.com/Pages/Genetics.aspx

http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/ ... rameri.htm

http://birdpets.onenessbecomesus.com/Genetics.pdf

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Hi Lushen,

I've just finished reading the 'homework' you set us :lol: , and found it really helpful in understanding how the genetics and different mutations work. Thanks so much for pointing us in the right direction.

Just so I can test out my new-found knowledge, (and here I might be COMPLETELY off the beaten track :oops: ), but for Sweetleaf's grey cock and grey (silver?) hen to produce 2 blue chicks and 1 grey.....does that mean that either the cock or the hen (or both?) had to be SF grey, or is the cock carrying the hidden blue gene? Or should I go back and re-do my homework :mrgreen:

Did I get it wrong?? :D

Regards Deb
Regards Deb
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi Deb, grey is a blue series bird, so you will get blue babies by putting 2 grey birds together, unless of course 1 bird is a double factor grey then you will get all grey babies, seeing that you got 1 blue baby, that would mean that both your birds are single factor, will explain all this in more detail in future lessons

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Thanks Lushen! :D
Regards Deb
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi all I'm sure that you guys have had enough time to go thru some of the article links I have posted previously so I'm going to continue with lessons

We last spoke about the top half of the calculator, so now I'm going to speak about the bottom half of the calculator

First up here is another pic of the bottom half of the calculator so you can see what I'm talking about
Image

Ok so on the bottom half of the calculator you find 2 boxes that can be checked or ticked
1 says
"Visuals only (no splits)"
and the other says
"Show genetic code"

For the purpose of this tutorial and for beginners always make sure that there are no ticks in these boxes as if they are it will complicate things as you are just starting of.

Next you will find 2 buttons namely:-

"Reset" - this allows you to clear your previous entry so that you can perform a new calculation

"Generate" - you click this button once you have selected the genetics of the pairings of both the birds that you would like to put together and it will calculate and give you the outcome

Next lesson we are going to do our first simple calculation

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Ok so for our next lesson we are going to start with a very simple calculation and later move onto more calculations(I won't say more difficult calculations, cos once you get the hang of it, then it becomes very simple)

So first up I always get asked the question as to how one enters a visual green bird in the calculator, and I understand as the calculator shows nowhere to tick for a green bird, so first calculation we gonna pair a
"Green cock"
to a
"Green hen"

So how do we calculate this, very simple, go to the bottom of the calculator and make sure there are no ticks in the bottom 2 boxes, then hit the "Reset" button so that it clears any entries you have previously made. So with nothing ticked, hit the "Generate" button and you should end of with a calculation like this pic below
Image
If you don't get the same results, go back and start again

So what are the results telling us, firstly on top it shows us what we have paired together
"1.0 green
x 0.1 green

1.0 green - this stands for a "Green cock" as we have discussed earliar that "1.0" stands for "Cock" or "Male"

x - this stands for paired to or mated to

0.1 green - this stands for a "Green hen" as we have discussed earliar that "0.1" stands for "Hen" or "Female"

Next up it says

"% from all 1.0
100.0% 1.0 green"

This is showing us what "Male" chicks we may get and what percentages we will get of each colour/mutation from the pairing we have just entered.

And below that it says

"% from all 0.1
100%. 0.1 green"

So here its showing us what "Female" chicks we may get and what percentages we will get of each colour/mutation from the pairing we have just entered.

So basically its telling us that if we mate a "Green cock" to a "Green hen" all or 100% of the "Male" chicks will be green and all or 100% of the "Female" chicks will be green.

This is not to be mistaken for how many male chicks or how many female chicks you may get, as no calculator will be able to tell you that, example of what I mean if you have 5 eggs and 5 chicks are born,

All could be male chicks or
All could be female chicks or
4 could be males and 1 could be a female,
and I can continue but I'm sure you get the picture, so what the calculator is telling for this example is that if you get male chicks, all would be green and if you get female chicks, all would be green.

Next lesson we will go onto another calculation and hopefully it will make more sense then

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Ernest_sjn
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Ernest_sjn »

What does it mean with the "opa" in the gen cal?

Regards, Ernest from Philippines..
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi Ernest

Thanks for your reply, would like to know which part of the genetic calculator do you see "OPA"?

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

I think Ernest may have meant the OP? = Opaline?
Regards Deb
asifsuun
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:33 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by asifsuun »

I would love to explore.
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi all sorry that I took so long to start the next lesson, been working long hours and night duty at work, so please excuse me for taking so long to continue with lessons.

Before we go to the next lesson, there are some rules that I would like to lay down as we will now see how splits come about, so here they are :-

Firstly NO indian ringneck can be split for any dominant mutation, namely :-

Dark
Dominant Edge Dilution
Dominant Pied
Green
Grey
Misty(Khaki)
Violet

Secondly NO female indian ringneck can be split for any sex-linked mutation, namely :-

Ino
Pallid
Cinnamon
Opaline

So now that we laid down those rules we can continue with our lesson, so we are going to do another simple calculation and mate a

"Green Cock" to a "Lutino Hen"

So we go to our calculator and firstly hit the Reset button to clear out any previous calculations,

For the "Green Cock" we leave the 1.0 column empty as shown in the previous lesson that by leaving the column empty the calculator know that you are entering a "Green" bird.

For the "Lutino Hen" we only tick "ino" under the 0.1 column under sex-linked mutations

Below is a pic of how you should enter this into the genetic calculator
Image

Then you hit the "Generate" button and you would end up with the following results
Image

So this tells us that all chicks that are "Males" from the above mating will be visual "Green" birds carrying a hidden "ino" gene

And all chicks that are "Female" from the above mating will be visual "Green" birds not carrying any hidden genes

Try a few calculation on your own and next we are going to take one of the male chicks from the above mating and put it back to the mother to see what happens, so we basically gonna mate mother to son

I know that this is boring cos we currently dealing with green series birds but its the easiest way for me to lay down the proper foundations so that when we are doing more complicated calculations, they will seem simple

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
king kong
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by king kong »

HI

Thanks Lushen1600
it is really helpful for the beginners or who take interest in genetics but dont have proper time to satisfy their thirst through a proper plate form where they also find handful answers of their quarries
so ur work must b appreciated well done n keep it up
me too have some confusions in mind but r for next level which ill discuss here later at proper time bcos dont want to create fuss at d moment

regards
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Thanks Lushen!

No rush on the lessons.......we know you have a lot going on at the moment :D Look forward to the next installment when you get the chance :)
Regards Deb
Eshana
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:29 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Eshana »

Thank you so much Lushen

I have really been enjoying these lessons and it is far from boring. Thank you for having so much of patience by starting from the very basics (which we novices desperately need :lol: ).

Warm Regards
Eshana
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi King Kong, Willowisp & Eshana

Thank you for your patience, I'm currently working on the next lesson in draft mode on my phone and will post once completed

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi all for this next lesson we are going to mate one of the male chicks from the above pairing back to the mother

Just to recap the above mating was with a "Green Cock" to a "Lutino Hen" which produced

Green/ino male chicks
Green female chicks

So now we are going to mate one of the "Green/ino" male chicks back to the "Lutino" mother to see what happens
So on the genetic calculator the first thing we always do before starting a new calculation is hit the "Reset" button

For the male "Green/ino" we will not tick anything under the "visual" column for "1.0" but we need to tick "ino" under the "splits to" column, but now there are 2 options under the "splits to" column namely :-

"x1" - select this if the sex-linked gene was inherited from that father

"X2" - select this if the sex-linked gene was inherited from the mother

So we know that our "Green/ino male chick had a "Green" father and a "Lutino" mother, so the ino that the male chick inherited as a hidden gene was inherited from his mother, so in this case we tick "x2" for "ino" under the "splits to" column under "1.0" (hope this make sense, would like the more experienced guys to confirm if I'm on the right track with this one)

We know from previous experience that we need to tick "ino" under the "0.1" visual column for the mother who is lutino. So your entry in the calculator should be like the pic below
Image

Once you have made your entry as above you hit the "Generate" button and you will end up with a result like the pic below
Image

So what can we deduce from the above
The results are telling us that from all the males we get
50% - will be visually green birds carrying/split to the hidden ino gene just like the male in this calculation
50% - will be visually lutino/yellow birds without any splits or hidden genes

The result also tells us from all the females we get
50% - will be visually lutino/yellow birds without any splits or hidden genes
50% - will be visually green birds without any splits or hidden genes

So in total we can work out that 50% of all the chicks produced (irrespective whether they are male or female) will be visually green and the other 50% will be visually yellow/lutino.

Now here is the tricky part when putting a pair like this together,
and we get 4 eggs and 4 chicks hatch,

we cannot say that because 4 chicks have hatched, 2(50%) will be visually green and the other 2(50%) will be visually yellow/lutino

We may end up with all 4 chicks being visually green or all 4 chicks being visually yellow/lutino

We also may end up with 3 chicks being visually green and 1 chick being visually yellow/lutino
or
We also may end up with 1 chick being visually green and 3 chicks being visually yellow/lutino

So why does this not line up with what the calculator tells us, well the calculator works out percentage according to 100 chicks being born, so out of 100 chicks that are born, 50 will be green and the other 50 will be yellow.

So if you have the above pair and you get 5 chicks from this pair every season, it is possible for this pair to give you 5 green chicks every season for the next 10 seasons before giving you lutino chicks,
or
it is also possible for this pair to give you 5 lutino chicks every season for the next 10 seasons before giving you green chicks

but I'm being drastic in my example, you should expect some lutino chicks and some green chicks. but what I'm trying to say is don't expect half the chicks born to be lutino and the other half to be green, anything is possible

Thanks
Lushen
Last edited by Lushen1600 on Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Eshana
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:29 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Eshana »

Hi Lushen

Great lesson....now it is all starting to make sense. I realise now why it is so important to know the birds history (lineage). What the bird actually looks like makes no difference...it is what the bird has inherited from its parents that makes a huge difference to the outcome of its chicks. Thanks again....

Warm Regards
Eshana
king kong
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by king kong »

Hi
@ Eshana u r right n
@ Lushen1600 u r going really good
one thing i have in my mind that y X1 & X2 stands for splits of father & mother respectively, because i was thinking it stands for 1St generation split n 2 Nd generation split totally my thoughts
one more thing i want to ask that once i saw T1 & T2 :shock: in very next 2nd column of X1 & X2 (under 0.1 row s-linked recessive ) what is it for
regards
8)
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi King Kong, I once asked about why and what to use the x1, x2 for on this forum and from the answer I got, this is how I've accustomed myself to use the calculator, here is a link to that thread

http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 26&t=15361

As for the T1, T2, that's a good question, which I have never asked as I don't have any dark mutation birds that are split for blue or turquiose, therefore would like to ask the more experienced guys to answer this one as I'm not sure how and why would one select either the T1 or T2 option, if there is a thread where this query has been answered, please refer us to it.

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Thanks for the latest lesson, Lushen! I've been away all weekend, and only just caught up on the last few post's........it's great to finally know what the x1 and x2 mean! I have been wondering about them :)
Regards Deb
king kong
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by king kong »

Hi
thanks Lushen1600 me too desperately looking for T1 & T2 becos my theory is till the time we dont have fundamental knowledge about the Calculator how comes we can get correct solutions of our queries
one more suggestion :D though i m increasing a little bit of ur work load but sharing knowledge will increase our knowledge too and
i,e y not we start another thread to understand the basics of color representations
e.g Blue = blue ino
visual green = green / blue ino (from 1.0 blue ino x 0.1 green)......
i mean representation of visual color in codes (inherited gene)to put on Gen Cal i think will be helpful for new as well as senior users (as reminder) n all will be available at single platform
@ willowisp71, Eshana, u people r taking iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinterest too appreciable
regards to all
:mrgreen:
sahhbear
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:49 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sahhbear »

WOW!! Thank you Lushen! I've seen you post on a couple of other threads and thought to myself holy crap what is all this 0.1 1.0 stuff- now I have some idea thanks to the lovely Deb who referred me to this thread. I'd love to work out the the genetics for my guy even though I'm not wanting to breed him... I'd just like to know. Unfortunately I think I'm going to be in the same boat as you with Skittles Deb- I have no idea who his parents are so I am only going to be able to get so far as to the "visual" appearance stage.

Thanks again Lushen. This is really awesome that you are taking time out to explain this to us all xx
Sarah Xx
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi all here is the next lesson, thanks for being so patient, currently busy with studies so I decided to have a break a post another lesson

For this lesson, its going to be another simple calculation, we going to mate a

"Green/ino cock"
to a
"Green hen"

Once again excuse this boring lesson and some may think I'm mad, but there is some method in my madness

So I'm sure by now we would all know how to enter these into the calculator as we have experience from previous lessons on how to do this, and if you have forgotten please go up to previous lessons and read again before continuing, to make this interesting, I'm not going to put a pic of how it should be entered.

Ok so once we have entered the above, hit the "Generate" button and your results should be as follows, if it is not the same, then you have entered incorrectly, so go back and try to figure out your mistake
Image

So from the above we can see that all males chicks will be visually green with 50% of the male chicks being split for ino and the other 50% having no splits

For the female chicks 50% will be visual green with no splits and 50% will be visual lutino with no splits

I'm going to give you a heads up of what we going to mate for the next 2 lessons

"Lutino cock x Green hen"

"Lutino cock x Lutino hen"

So try to work these out on your own, and when I put up the next 2 lessons, if you get them correct give yourself a tap on the shoulder, if you made your mistake and got incorrect results, go back and figure out what you did wrong and once you identified your mistake, then you can also give yourself a tap on the shoulder

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Thanks Lushen, hope your studies are going well! Look forward to seeing the next lesson (when you can, no rush), and making sure I got the correct results :D :lol:
Regards Deb
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi Deb, studies are going fine, hope you are well, haven't had a chance to come online for a while, so while I had the chance, I thought I would do another lesson.

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi all, while I still have some free time let's go onto the next lesson, if you haven't already tried to work with the 2 matings that I left as homework on the last lesson, then I would suggest that you go back and try to work them out first before reading this to see if your results match mine

So with this lesson, as I have mentioned previously, we are going to mate a

"Lutino cock"
to a
"Green hen"

Once again I'm not going to show you how this is entered as it has been shown previously. So once you have entered the above in hit the "Generate" button and your results should be as follows
Image

So as you can see from the above results, all males will be visual green birds, split for ino, and all female birds will be visual Lutino

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi all, in the next lesson as I have said in a previous lesson our next mating will be a

"Lutino cock"
to a
"Lutino hen"

So by now we already know how to enter these into the calculator, so once entered hit the "Generate" button and your results should be as follows
Image

So from the above result we can see that all male babies will be visual lutino without any splits and all females will also be visual lutino without any splits

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Yay!! I get a gold star!! And a pat on the back :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks again Lushen! :D
Regards Deb
king kong
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by king kong »

HI

Yay!! I get a gold star!! And a pat on the back :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks again Lushen! :D


@willowisp71
lovely saying
Lushen1600now we r getting n following ur foot steps but will b more interested when we r going to evaluate more advance mutations
:mrgreen:
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

I think Lushen should give us some homework, each get's a different pairing to try and work out, and then submit for marking :lol: :lol: :lol:
Regards Deb
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S »

Hi everyone,

since I think this is an important topic, and seeing as things are a bit quite, I decided I'll post a "puzzle" for people still figuring out genetics.

Who can name the genetic make up of the adult birds in this picture based on what you can see in them, as well as what you can see in the young birds. Then, how would we enter it into gencalc? Finally, what is the probability of breeding those two chicks from this pair?

Image

PS: To the more experienced people, if you can ID them in 2 seconds flat, please don't spoil the surprise for the others yet. :D
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Oh Johan!! That is a tricky one!! LOL, :lol: but I'm up for the challenge!

I may get it wrong though :|
Regards Deb
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S »

Hi Deb, there are easy components to the puzzle, and one tricky component. We have to keep exercising that muscle between our ears. :lol:

I will give a series of hints over the next couple of days. But for now, you have to swim on your own in the deep end of the pool so that we can give everybody in the different time zones a shot at it. So, give it a try!
Auntybabe
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Auntybabe »

Thankyou so much for these lessons!
I joined the forum yesterday, and found this thread. I am so glad I did! I'll try the puzzle - but it's a tough one, as the lessons are not over yet. I'm still trying to come to grips with fallow, pied, clearhead etc.?:,,!
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Haha, Johan!! Lucky I'm wearing my arm floaties, for I fear I may sink without them on this one! Had a play already, and STILL can't get the right outcome based on the chicks colours, but as they say, if at first you don't succeed...... :D

Just to clarify, that is the parents either side with the two chicks in the middle, yes??
Regards Deb
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi all sorry I haven't been online for a while, will continue with lessons soon

Hi Deb, yes you are correct the parents are on both sides and the two in the centre are the chicks, I'm not saying anymore as I don't want to spoil the fun. You will have to work this one out and wait for Johan to give you clues and eventually the answer

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Thanks Lushen,

I have Pm'd my 'guess' to Johan, and will await his answer as to how wrong I got it, lol! Hopefully I'm not TOO far off the beaten track.......still unsure about the 'dad' :D
Regards Deb
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S »

Hi Deb, I got your PM, but let's keep it public so that everyone can learn from the experience. :) You have some things right, and some wrong.

So, for the first hint, the parents are the two birds on the sides. The cock is on the left. It is confusing, because he doesn't have a neck ring, yet he is more than old enough so that it should have appeared. That is because of the mutation he is carrying. That is your second hint.

If unsure about the mutations, always visit http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/ ... rameri.htm.
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

The yellow and green is the cock?? :shock: Lol, boy, did I get that one wrong! :D
Back to the drawing board!
Regards Deb
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Ok, so here is my guess, based on the LEFT bird being the cock, and the right being the hen.........The cock is recessive pied, hence no neck ring - the hen I've gone with recessive pied too, but maybe she's dominant? Not very informed about the pied's...........I still feel like there is something I'm missing though..... :(

1.0 green rec.pied /blue
x 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
25.0% 1.0 blue rec.pied
25.0% 1.0 green rec.pied /blue
25.0% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
25.0% 0.1 blue rec.pied
25.0% 0.1 green rec.pied /blue
25.0% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied

Left chick turquoise(parblue)Blue rec. pied? and right chick blue rec.pied? They both have a LOT of white in them though, and this is throwing me.
I'm also wondering if there is something else at play in the mother hen?
Regards Deb
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