First time IRN owner need help!
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First time IRN owner need help!
Hi,
I just adopted a beautiful green IRN and for what the shop owner told
Me he should be around 6months..his ring is barely showing.
Of course I've only had him 2 days (his name is chiris). My husband and
Brother believe the more I grab him now the faster he'll trust me and let him grab him.
I tried today but I nearly had a panic attack because I didn't know how to interact with him and was afraid of him hurting himself.
Now can any of the experience owners give me tips on how to tame him?
Last thing I want is to scare him or stress him. Should I wait to get him out the cage again?
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Hey. Gently tell the men to sit down and shut up. They no longer get to advise you on handling your new IRN. Send them outside to build you a nice aviary with a foyer for safety and a human sized door.
Do not, seriously, NOT grab the bird against his wish. This is an intelligent animal who will remember the act and the fear associated with it. He will link those in his mind with you. At best he will be terrified. In all likelihood he will quickly learn to bite you in self defense. Then you will have months and months to repent of your bad behaviour while he decides if he will change his negative opinion of you.
The approach of repeatedly grabbing the bird so he will learn to "get over it" is an old-fashioned technique called "flooding" . You can search here or Google for that. To say it is outdated is an understatement. It might work to teach the bird "learned helplessness" (called, in some circles, "breaking the spirit"). Google that as well, but there will be a high cost in terms of your relationship and trust, as well as the blood you'll lose over it. I strongly urge you not to go that route.
SO, I just told you what not to do. What should you do instead?
Help the bird understand that you have treats and you want to share them. Once the bird understands this your foot's in the door.
You can let him out in a bird safe room (close the doors and windows and curtains, please) and make sure all the family understands they cannot open any of those things. Open the cage and stand back. Allow plenty of time (like hours) but don't leave the bird free more than a few minutes before you invite him back into the cage. This is because as he is out longer and longer he may get so into it that he doesn't want to go home. It's a new experience. Don't let him get overwhelmed. To entice him back to the cage put his favorite treats in there -- this is where it is essential he understands the act of you putting the best treats in the bowl. Do not stand near the cage as he tries to go home lest you scare him off. **Expect him to go up high and not want to come down. Expect him to not understand what you want. Expect him to flee if you approach him. Do not chase. Do not grab. If it becomes essential that someone grabs him, let the most unsympathetic human do it - their chances of building a bond with the bird are low anyway. Also please advise them do not squeeze the bird or restrict the chest movement. Birds breathe differently from us and if you cut off their chest muscle movement you also cut off their breathing.***
Better still, learn and educate others on how to "towel" the bird.
It might help you to temporarily consider treatment of your bird as if it were a young human baby. You would entice a baby, right? Be happy, not angry, supportive, not commanding. Babies don't understand roughness of action or words - just makes them cry, right? And they hate those scary surprises, sudden loud noises, folks popping up in their faces, etc. It is the same with the birdies.
By the way, protect your bird from humans who would treat him in a manner not like yours. You don't want them undoing your hard and patient work.
Plenty of people have come here looking for the same information as you. Please use the SEARCH function to find it.
Do not, seriously, NOT grab the bird against his wish. This is an intelligent animal who will remember the act and the fear associated with it. He will link those in his mind with you. At best he will be terrified. In all likelihood he will quickly learn to bite you in self defense. Then you will have months and months to repent of your bad behaviour while he decides if he will change his negative opinion of you.
The approach of repeatedly grabbing the bird so he will learn to "get over it" is an old-fashioned technique called "flooding" . You can search here or Google for that. To say it is outdated is an understatement. It might work to teach the bird "learned helplessness" (called, in some circles, "breaking the spirit"). Google that as well, but there will be a high cost in terms of your relationship and trust, as well as the blood you'll lose over it. I strongly urge you not to go that route.
SO, I just told you what not to do. What should you do instead?
Help the bird understand that you have treats and you want to share them. Once the bird understands this your foot's in the door.
You can let him out in a bird safe room (close the doors and windows and curtains, please) and make sure all the family understands they cannot open any of those things. Open the cage and stand back. Allow plenty of time (like hours) but don't leave the bird free more than a few minutes before you invite him back into the cage. This is because as he is out longer and longer he may get so into it that he doesn't want to go home. It's a new experience. Don't let him get overwhelmed. To entice him back to the cage put his favorite treats in there -- this is where it is essential he understands the act of you putting the best treats in the bowl. Do not stand near the cage as he tries to go home lest you scare him off. **Expect him to go up high and not want to come down. Expect him to not understand what you want. Expect him to flee if you approach him. Do not chase. Do not grab. If it becomes essential that someone grabs him, let the most unsympathetic human do it - their chances of building a bond with the bird are low anyway. Also please advise them do not squeeze the bird or restrict the chest movement. Birds breathe differently from us and if you cut off their chest muscle movement you also cut off their breathing.***
Better still, learn and educate others on how to "towel" the bird.
It might help you to temporarily consider treatment of your bird as if it were a young human baby. You would entice a baby, right? Be happy, not angry, supportive, not commanding. Babies don't understand roughness of action or words - just makes them cry, right? And they hate those scary surprises, sudden loud noises, folks popping up in their faces, etc. It is the same with the birdies.
By the way, protect your bird from humans who would treat him in a manner not like yours. You don't want them undoing your hard and patient work.
Plenty of people have come here looking for the same information as you. Please use the SEARCH function to find it.
-MissK
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Hi,
Thank you for the great advice...
That's what I thought..giving my baby IRN some adjustment time..and meanwhile play and talk to him thru the cage so he can get use to me and my voice..should i wait a bit to let him out of his home? Atleast til he realizes I'm not a predator?
Thank you for the great advice...
That's what I thought..giving my baby IRN some adjustment time..and meanwhile play and talk to him thru the cage so he can get use to me and my voice..should i wait a bit to let him out of his home? Atleast til he realizes I'm not a predator?
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
You only need to meet a few requirements to successfully let him out of the cage. He needs to be physically able to get out and get back in on his own. He needs to understand what it means when you put food in the bowl. He needs to want to go to the bowl to get the food.
You certainly should gently get to know each other while he is in the cage. Talk to him, let him watch you doing whatever you do, feed him. If he does not complain, retreat, or look scared when you put your hand inside the cage then you can give him food or let your hand rest inside the cage. The best way to start making friends is to put some treat in the bowl and see that he knows he likes it, and then offer that by hand. Keep the hand still. Let him come to you, even a few inches.
Do not stare at him, yell suddenly, clap hands, etc. Do not loom over him. Speak before you enter the room. Don't act like a sneaky predator. Be gentle, like for a baby.
You certainly should gently get to know each other while he is in the cage. Talk to him, let him watch you doing whatever you do, feed him. If he does not complain, retreat, or look scared when you put your hand inside the cage then you can give him food or let your hand rest inside the cage. The best way to start making friends is to put some treat in the bowl and see that he knows he likes it, and then offer that by hand. Keep the hand still. Let him come to you, even a few inches.
Do not stare at him, yell suddenly, clap hands, etc. Do not loom over him. Speak before you enter the room. Don't act like a sneaky predator. Be gentle, like for a baby.
-MissK
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Thanx MissK,
Today after coming home from work I bought Chiris
New toys and decided to sit next to him. For what I've notice it doesn't bother him as much. He paces here and there but atleast he's not giving me his back as often and kinda stares at me. I took advantage and sliced some apples and ate a few then put 2 for him..he actually ate them today (I didn't have success yesterday)
that's for me a big step. I'm repeating whistles and his name plus saying a few other things. I believe I need to get a better cage for my baby so like you said he can come in and out on his own.
Today after coming home from work I bought Chiris
New toys and decided to sit next to him. For what I've notice it doesn't bother him as much. He paces here and there but atleast he's not giving me his back as often and kinda stares at me. I took advantage and sliced some apples and ate a few then put 2 for him..he actually ate them today (I didn't have success yesterday)
that's for me a big step. I'm repeating whistles and his name plus saying a few other things. I believe I need to get a better cage for my baby so like you said he can come in and out on his own.Re: First time IRN owner need help!
You didn't mention the details about your cage so I can't say if i think it is good or in need of improvement. If you want my opinion (and I'm chock full of opinions...) you can post a photo and dimensions. Everybody loves photos, regardless.
I both love and hate talking with people about cages. I have a certain interest in housing and other accommodations for pet birds, so I do like to try and keep current on the choices that exist in the world. I also feel that if nobody tells people how important good sized cages are, then some people just won't ever realize it. I also have a great deal of sympathy for the birds that have to live in these cages. Sometimes I Google to see if I can help people find a nice cage and other times I feel they should make this effort for themselves, for their birds, really. I do know that not everybody is a savvy shopper and they don't realize they can get a good sized cage for less money than they think. I get very disgusted when I try to help people and advise them to get a decent sized cage and they end up with something I think is not good enough for basic support for their bird. One day, some day, I hope to make a nice big post about cages, but it's just going to have to wait till I'm stuck in the house with a whole lot of time on my hands. Maybe if I break my leg or something like that.....
With regard to making the cage easier for the bird to come and go - cages tend to follow a basic design. With the exception of the doors that go up and down like a guillotine, there's going to basically be a hole in the wall of the cage through which the bird can pass. With practice, the able-bodied bird can learn to negotiate this opening with ease. You'd think the door that drops to become a platform would be quite easy for the bird but I have found, with my great research group of TWO , that this is not necessarily the case. This skill still needs to be learned and practiced.
There are some things you can do to make it easier for your bird to come and go. As a matter of fact, over on my "Sinbad" thread, today we are talking about getting Sinbad out of the cage. It is nice if there is a perch that leads to the door to make it easier for the bird to step out, and it's also good if you can place a perch on the outside so he has an easy place to go. I found, with my first Ringneck, that he was not willing to step onto novel surfaces. If that is the case with yours, he should have the same kind of materials outside the cage as inside, so he won't be scared to use them. If the bird is clipped it could help to furnish the cage with a rope for climbing and then have a similar rope reaching to the floor or table or whatever so he can get back in that way. With Sinbad, as he is still afraid of me, we noted that my being in the room may prevent him from coming out.
I both love and hate talking with people about cages. I have a certain interest in housing and other accommodations for pet birds, so I do like to try and keep current on the choices that exist in the world. I also feel that if nobody tells people how important good sized cages are, then some people just won't ever realize it. I also have a great deal of sympathy for the birds that have to live in these cages. Sometimes I Google to see if I can help people find a nice cage and other times I feel they should make this effort for themselves, for their birds, really. I do know that not everybody is a savvy shopper and they don't realize they can get a good sized cage for less money than they think. I get very disgusted when I try to help people and advise them to get a decent sized cage and they end up with something I think is not good enough for basic support for their bird. One day, some day, I hope to make a nice big post about cages, but it's just going to have to wait till I'm stuck in the house with a whole lot of time on my hands. Maybe if I break my leg or something like that.....
With regard to making the cage easier for the bird to come and go - cages tend to follow a basic design. With the exception of the doors that go up and down like a guillotine, there's going to basically be a hole in the wall of the cage through which the bird can pass. With practice, the able-bodied bird can learn to negotiate this opening with ease. You'd think the door that drops to become a platform would be quite easy for the bird but I have found, with my great research group of TWO
, that this is not necessarily the case. This skill still needs to be learned and practiced.There are some things you can do to make it easier for your bird to come and go. As a matter of fact, over on my "Sinbad" thread, today we are talking about getting Sinbad out of the cage. It is nice if there is a perch that leads to the door to make it easier for the bird to step out, and it's also good if you can place a perch on the outside so he has an easy place to go. I found, with my first Ringneck, that he was not willing to step onto novel surfaces. If that is the case with yours, he should have the same kind of materials outside the cage as inside, so he won't be scared to use them. If the bird is clipped it could help to furnish the cage with a rope for climbing and then have a similar rope reaching to the floor or table or whatever so he can get back in that way. With Sinbad, as he is still afraid of me, we noted that my being in the room may prevent him from coming out.
-MissK
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Well Chiris cage isn't what I wanted to him since I know with time he will be getting larger and with a nice long tail..my babies cage entrance is one of those with guillotine style which i hate..makes me feel uneasy. But until I have the some cash I'll try to get a larger standing one. I would love to post pic of him since he is just adorable..doesn't have his ring really you cam barely see his orange line trying to show..but I have notice his coloration is quite unique from other green IRN which makes him special..idk if it's possible but I believe he might be an offspring from a green IRN and maybe a Blue one as well..he has blue feathers behind his head..?
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
If you look at the photo at the top of the page you can just see a wee bit of blue between the cheek and the neck rings. Could that be what you're seeing? The Ringneck mutations are many, and you might be able to ID your bird after you get a picture up, or from reviewing the photos on the non-forum part of this site.
My bird has some gorgeous blue at the back of his head. He's the "normal green". the wild type - The Original!~
Are you in the USA?
My bird has some gorgeous blue at the back of his head. He's the "normal green". the wild type - The Original!~
Are you in the USA?
-MissK
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Chirisboy, just so you know.. the only reason Missk is the only one responding to you is because she's doing a great job explaining things to you..
Others are watching but she's covered it all pretty well..
So just so you know, you're getting solid advice that has roots in conventional IRN thinking.
Others are watching but she's covered it all pretty well..
So just so you know, you're getting solid advice that has roots in conventional IRN thinking.
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Yes..I'm. In California.
And. My lil IRN looks like a beautiful green fellow.
@Donovan thnx I've noticed she's very helpful. ..I'm glad I found this site.
I'm taking it slow with my Chiris and so far he's trying not to be so timid but I'm trying to give him his space.
Will post results as weeks go by..thank you MissK.
Cristy
And. My lil IRN looks like a beautiful green fellow.
@Donovan thnx I've noticed she's very helpful. ..I'm glad I found this site.
I'm taking it slow with my Chiris and so far he's trying not to be so timid but I'm trying to give him his space.
Will post results as weeks go by..thank you MissK.
Cristy
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
You're welcome.
Just 'cuz I love it, here's my cage and the same thing in a different brand. I'd be surprised if they are not made side by side and I bet that HQ and A&E are related.
http://www.wayfair.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-D ... C1033.html
http://www.birdscomfort.com/doubleflight_bird_cage.html
Read the comments and reviews. They're pretty on target except I had NO trouble with the stand being not level or the trays not working. Personally, I wish it were taller inside, and there is one made, but the cost is more than double. I use it without the divider. IRN can fly a *short* distance if there are not perches in the way, but they prefer to walk, usually. Note, I have read that platinum might not be what you think. With whatever cage you buy, check multiple sites for cost and shipping cost.
Check out the cage InTheAir just got for Sapphire, too. (Sorry they are not in the US so no links there. But I'm sure we have them too.)
Just 'cuz I love it, here's my cage and the same thing in a different brand. I'd be surprised if they are not made side by side and I bet that HQ and A&E are related.
http://www.wayfair.com/AandE-Cage-Co.-D ... C1033.html
http://www.birdscomfort.com/doubleflight_bird_cage.html
Read the comments and reviews. They're pretty on target except I had NO trouble with the stand being not level or the trays not working. Personally, I wish it were taller inside, and there is one made, but the cost is more than double. I use it without the divider. IRN can fly a *short* distance if there are not perches in the way, but they prefer to walk, usually. Note, I have read that platinum might not be what you think. With whatever cage you buy, check multiple sites for cost and shipping cost.
Check out the cage InTheAir just got for Sapphire, too. (Sorry they are not in the US so no links there. But I'm sure we have them too.)
-MissK
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Sapphires cage is seriously cool! I love it soo much, I just cleaned it and it was so easy and both birds came in and "helped" me. When I was deciding on that cage, I asked about it on another forum and someone from the usa said they got the same size and style for about $500, though that was before shipping.
I'm really glad to see you are making progress with Chris, it takes time and patience but it is worth it! Irns have their own minds and seem to people watch before they commit to making friends. We have one who is very social with people, yet he will fly off if a stanger is too pushy. If the same person lets him make the first move he will instantly become friends with them and fly to their shoulder. Our other irn is the same, but takes longer to make a move. They are also stomachs on wings and quickly warm to anyone who offers them food.
I'm really glad to see you are making progress with Chris, it takes time and patience but it is worth it! Irns have their own minds and seem to people watch before they commit to making friends. We have one who is very social with people, yet he will fly off if a stanger is too pushy. If the same person lets him make the first move he will instantly become friends with them and fly to their shoulder. Our other irn is the same, but takes longer to make a move. They are also stomachs on wings and quickly warm to anyone who offers them food.
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Hi
I did get to see the links..I actually have seen those type of cages at a petco shop in California.
I like it the one from birdscomfort..I am going to see for how much I'll get it at the stores over here..with a little luck I'll get a good deal for my birdkid.
I did get to see the links..I actually have seen those type of cages at a petco shop in California.
I like it the one from birdscomfort..I am going to see for how much I'll get it at the stores over here..with a little luck I'll get a good deal for my birdkid.
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Find the cage you like at petco, then buy it on ebay
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Birds Comfort bases shipping charge on actual distance. You won't want to buy from them because *I think* they're shipping from Florida or New Jersey...... I was completely happy (not just content) doing business with them, but that's a long trip.
-MissK
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Hi everyone
So today I've spent time with Chiris. So far I've gotten him to eat sliced apple and tomatoes. Doesn't care for strawberries so much. I tried hand feeding but no luck even thru cage. His been getting better at letting me sit by him but once my son walks up he gives him his back..i hope I can change that. I've whistle same tune to see if i can get him to make some music or noise. No luck. Any tips?
So today I've spent time with Chiris. So far I've gotten him to eat sliced apple and tomatoes. Doesn't care for strawberries so much. I tried hand feeding but no luck even thru cage. His been getting better at letting me sit by him but once my son walks up he gives him his back..i hope I can change that. I've whistle same tune to see if i can get him to make some music or noise. No luck. Any tips?
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
He has been grooming himself and trying his new toys when he thinks I'm not looking. It's funny
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Indian Ringnecks are super sneaky..
They love to think they're getting away with something, and when they're in their own little world they don't want to be watched or interfered with..
Some birds will only talk when others are out of the room... some will talk when they're covered.
in your case your bird wants to play with his toy when you're not watching.... this is a great sign in my opinion.
They love to think they're getting away with something, and when they're in their own little world they don't want to be watched or interfered with..
Some birds will only talk when others are out of the room... some will talk when they're covered.
in your case your bird wants to play with his toy when you're not watching.... this is a great sign in my opinion.
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
So I'm really worried today,
My bby is at the vet...i found worms from the storage bag where I had his food and lning paper.
I immediately threw it out and took him in.
He has diarrhea, so far they going to inject him..give him medicine nd do check up
Plus test of his fecal. Oooh i hope he'll be alright.
My bby is at the vet...i found worms from the storage bag where I had his food and lning paper.
I immediately threw it out and took him in.
He has diarrhea, so far they going to inject him..give him medicine nd do check up
Plus test of his fecal. Oooh i hope he'll be alright.
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Good on you for taking him to the vet. Best of luck.
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Soo..it's been few hrs we came bck from vet..so far he looks okay.
He's eating but I haven't seen him drink water really, but has eaten fresh tomatoes..
Had to give him meds so although some had said to not hold him against his will for his own good I did to administer his med.
He was nervous first but then after few bites..he would allow me to pet him and stepped up but would fly off to floor lol..i guess not yet. I was wearing gloves though..i feel a bit more at ease incase he bites. Soo for next week i need to give him meds til our next app to give us test results. Hope everything turns out good, I don't want to lose him.
Cristina
He's eating but I haven't seen him drink water really, but has eaten fresh tomatoes..
Had to give him meds so although some had said to not hold him against his will for his own good I did to administer his med.
He was nervous first but then after few bites..he would allow me to pet him and stepped up but would fly off to floor lol..i guess not yet. I was wearing gloves though..i feel a bit more at ease incase he bites. Soo for next week i need to give him meds til our next app to give us test results. Hope everything turns out good, I don't want to lose him.
Cristina
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Hi Cristina,
You have several things going on at once right now. Let me see if I can sort them out:
You brought home a juvenile Ringneck, believed to be male, on the 4th of July.
He does not want to be held.
He's a little nervous in the situation, turning his back and pacing at times.
He is relaxing a little bit for you, just you.
He has eaten some apple and tomato.
You are being considerate and giving him some space.
You intend to upgrade the cage as soon as you can.
He is quiet.
He preened and played with some toys when he thought you were not looking.
You found worms where you store the food and cage papers and this worried you.
Because of seeing worms you took him to the vet.
He has diarrhea.
The vet will (did?) inject him with medicine.
The vet will (did?) do a fecal exam.
After the vet he ate tomatoes.
You restrained him to administer medication.
Upon restraint he bit you, and you were wearing gloves.
Afterwards he let you pet him, though he would not stay with you.
You are going to medicate him for another week until you get test results.
I picked all these statements from your text posted here. I don't think I missed anything.
Working backwards, and about the thing that made me want to assess your total situation, is my concern over your vetting experience. I'm not a vet. I want to make perfectly clear that I am not educated in avian medicine. OK? Clear? It's good that you went to the vet. Obviously, you need a pro to address any problem that's out of your command, and in health situations, a doctor in person is far superior to asking strangers far away on the internet. Good job there. I hope your vet is a "real" bird vet, not just someone willing to take your money.
I'm concerned because it sounds like the bird is getting medicine when there is no firm diagnosis based on the test results that are not in yet. You took him to the vet because you saw worms in your provisions. Had you seen any diarrhea before you went to the vet? If yes, for how long? What are the circumstances of the diarrhea the vet saw - brought from home or produced in the office? Some animals (including us) may have digestive upset induced by stress. I am not sure if birds are so affected, but the question does arise. You have had him for one week - has he been eating a different diet (from what he was eating before you got him) for this week? A change in diet will commonly cause digestive upset in many animals. Has he been eating a lot of tomato? Tomato is a fruit. The sudden introduction of fruit or vegetables where the diet did not include them before, especially if eaten in some quantity, is likely to cause some digestive upset. Tomato also has a high water content. We know that if the birds consume a lot of high water content food, their poop is likely to consequently contain extra water as well.
I'm just trying to point out here that there are a variety of reasons an undiseased bird might have bad poo, so you won't worry too much. I'm hoping your vet took all these possible reasons into account before prescribing for your bird. I understand that if a bird is sick, quick action is needed, and the vet may well have felt it was "better safe than sorry". I also feel, however, that medicines are potentially harmful, and should be prescribed only when they are truly needed and the benefit outweighs the risk. I also believe it would be best if someone else administers the medication so that your relationship with the bird is not damaged more than absolutely necessary. He may let you slide once or twice, but after a week of restraint I feel he is likely to form some firm negative opinions of you. A clear sign that this has already happened would be when the sincerity of the bite increases. Of course, by then the damage is done.
I'd also like to comment on the worms you saw. You don't mention what kind of worms they were, and I imagine they are well gone from your home. If you do have a sample, you might want to take a photo and measurement for identification. I suspect that what you had was likely some sort of grain moth larvae. If so, they pose no direct threat to the bird. In fact, the bird might well just eat them. I understand they can contribute to spoilage over time, and this is why we like to buy a fresh seed mix for the bird. If your food comes packaged in clear plastic, you can inspect it before purchase in hopes of preventing them coming into your home. If the food contains visible moths, worms, or webs, or if there are little hunks of seeds stuck together as if by a drop of water, do not purchase that food. If you do get some like that, you can return it as "defective" (possibly) or stick it briefly in the freezer. This opens a fresh can of, uh, worms, though because it is also thought that freezing seeds destroys their nutrition. You must also, since we're on the subject, have a look at the way you store your seeds. Some people want to store them air tight to prevent infestation or spoilage. Others feel they must be packaged in a way that they are able to "breathe". The thought behind this is that seeds contain moisture which can cause spoilage when trapped. Think of a sweaty sock left in a sealed baggie for a week. I buy a high quality (some might say snooty brand) seed, and I keep it as instructed by the seller, in a cool place, in a breathable bag. I buy in bulk, but I also use it in bulk
. Those with only one or two birds would be best advised to buy in smaller quantity. Seed mix is perishable.
Going back a little further, I did not find the dimensions of your cage. I'm not looking to condemn you for having a small cage, or push you to shop before you're ready. However, cage size really does matter. How much it matters increases by how much too small it is. Please let me know, here or in pm, the dimensions of your cage. I am truly interested in the welfare of your animal and your relationship with him. Let me take a brief minute to illustrate with (another) story about one of my birds. Sinbad, you might have read, is a mature, untame IRN. I got him about a month ago. When I went to buy him he was in a "finch" cage, too small for even finches to live in properly full time. He could move around a little, if he just walked back and forth on the perch or climbed the wall. There was not enough room for him to flap properly. A total stranger, I stuck my hand in this cage, and the bird tried to get away only once. He ran into the wall and then just sat still. He was terrified and had no place to go, so he did nothing. He presented the appearance of being calm, but he was just scared stiff. After I brought him home and got him into a bigger cage (24"x20"), and then a much bigger cage (64"x21"), his behaviour changed dramatically. With room to run, he expressed his fear by running away and screaming. In the smaller cage he paced and clung to the wall making "false starts" as if getting ready to fly away. In the larger cage he would actually fly away and keep his back turned, and the screaming continued. The entire living room was not big enough for the both of us. Nobody would have guessed, from the behaviour of the bird in the finch cage, that this is how he really felt. I was not really surprised (though I was disappointed) but this is not my first untame IRN. I feel a cage the size of the entire room would not be unsuitable for Sinbad while he adjusts, but this is currently outside the realm of what I can do. I hope Sinbad's story can elucidate why I'm always so concerned with cage dimensions.
I know I had a lot to say today. I hope I was able to help you relax about the worms you saw, and understand how the big picture affects the small snapshots of behaviour (or bad poo) that you may see. I certainly hope Chiris is OK, and I feel pretty confident about him. Did the store offer any health guarantee or evidence of vetting or quarantine while he was in their care? **ALSO, you don't have to wait for your next visit to get test results. You can call every day and ask if the results are in. If they say they will call you, you can still call every day. They may care, but I guarantee your bird is more important to you than he is to them. If you get the results by phone, you can leave a message to ask the vet if there is needed a change in the medication. On the one hand, they want you to come in and buy another appointment. On the other hand, there is no reason to deny your animal up to the minute care.
You have several things going on at once right now. Let me see if I can sort them out:
You brought home a juvenile Ringneck, believed to be male, on the 4th of July.
He does not want to be held.
He's a little nervous in the situation, turning his back and pacing at times.
He is relaxing a little bit for you, just you.
He has eaten some apple and tomato.
You are being considerate and giving him some space.
You intend to upgrade the cage as soon as you can.
He is quiet.
He preened and played with some toys when he thought you were not looking.
You found worms where you store the food and cage papers and this worried you.
Because of seeing worms you took him to the vet.
He has diarrhea.
The vet will (did?) inject him with medicine.
The vet will (did?) do a fecal exam.
After the vet he ate tomatoes.
You restrained him to administer medication.
Upon restraint he bit you, and you were wearing gloves.
Afterwards he let you pet him, though he would not stay with you.
You are going to medicate him for another week until you get test results.
I picked all these statements from your text posted here. I don't think I missed anything.
Working backwards, and about the thing that made me want to assess your total situation, is my concern over your vetting experience. I'm not a vet. I want to make perfectly clear that I am not educated in avian medicine. OK? Clear? It's good that you went to the vet. Obviously, you need a pro to address any problem that's out of your command, and in health situations, a doctor in person is far superior to asking strangers far away on the internet. Good job there. I hope your vet is a "real" bird vet, not just someone willing to take your money.
I'm concerned because it sounds like the bird is getting medicine when there is no firm diagnosis based on the test results that are not in yet. You took him to the vet because you saw worms in your provisions. Had you seen any diarrhea before you went to the vet? If yes, for how long? What are the circumstances of the diarrhea the vet saw - brought from home or produced in the office? Some animals (including us) may have digestive upset induced by stress. I am not sure if birds are so affected, but the question does arise. You have had him for one week - has he been eating a different diet (from what he was eating before you got him) for this week? A change in diet will commonly cause digestive upset in many animals. Has he been eating a lot of tomato? Tomato is a fruit. The sudden introduction of fruit or vegetables where the diet did not include them before, especially if eaten in some quantity, is likely to cause some digestive upset. Tomato also has a high water content. We know that if the birds consume a lot of high water content food, their poop is likely to consequently contain extra water as well.
I'm just trying to point out here that there are a variety of reasons an undiseased bird might have bad poo, so you won't worry too much. I'm hoping your vet took all these possible reasons into account before prescribing for your bird. I understand that if a bird is sick, quick action is needed, and the vet may well have felt it was "better safe than sorry". I also feel, however, that medicines are potentially harmful, and should be prescribed only when they are truly needed and the benefit outweighs the risk. I also believe it would be best if someone else administers the medication so that your relationship with the bird is not damaged more than absolutely necessary. He may let you slide once or twice, but after a week of restraint I feel he is likely to form some firm negative opinions of you. A clear sign that this has already happened would be when the sincerity of the bite increases. Of course, by then the damage is done.
I'd also like to comment on the worms you saw. You don't mention what kind of worms they were, and I imagine they are well gone from your home. If you do have a sample, you might want to take a photo and measurement for identification. I suspect that what you had was likely some sort of grain moth larvae. If so, they pose no direct threat to the bird. In fact, the bird might well just eat them. I understand they can contribute to spoilage over time, and this is why we like to buy a fresh seed mix for the bird. If your food comes packaged in clear plastic, you can inspect it before purchase in hopes of preventing them coming into your home. If the food contains visible moths, worms, or webs, or if there are little hunks of seeds stuck together as if by a drop of water, do not purchase that food. If you do get some like that, you can return it as "defective" (possibly) or stick it briefly in the freezer. This opens a fresh can of, uh, worms, though because it is also thought that freezing seeds destroys their nutrition. You must also, since we're on the subject, have a look at the way you store your seeds. Some people want to store them air tight to prevent infestation or spoilage. Others feel they must be packaged in a way that they are able to "breathe". The thought behind this is that seeds contain moisture which can cause spoilage when trapped. Think of a sweaty sock left in a sealed baggie for a week. I buy a high quality (some might say snooty brand) seed, and I keep it as instructed by the seller, in a cool place, in a breathable bag. I buy in bulk, but I also use it in bulk
. Those with only one or two birds would be best advised to buy in smaller quantity. Seed mix is perishable.Going back a little further, I did not find the dimensions of your cage. I'm not looking to condemn you for having a small cage, or push you to shop before you're ready. However, cage size really does matter. How much it matters increases by how much too small it is. Please let me know, here or in pm, the dimensions of your cage. I am truly interested in the welfare of your animal and your relationship with him. Let me take a brief minute to illustrate with (another) story about one of my birds. Sinbad, you might have read, is a mature, untame IRN. I got him about a month ago. When I went to buy him he was in a "finch" cage, too small for even finches to live in properly full time. He could move around a little, if he just walked back and forth on the perch or climbed the wall. There was not enough room for him to flap properly. A total stranger, I stuck my hand in this cage, and the bird tried to get away only once. He ran into the wall and then just sat still. He was terrified and had no place to go, so he did nothing. He presented the appearance of being calm, but he was just scared stiff. After I brought him home and got him into a bigger cage (24"x20"), and then a much bigger cage (64"x21"), his behaviour changed dramatically. With room to run, he expressed his fear by running away and screaming. In the smaller cage he paced and clung to the wall making "false starts" as if getting ready to fly away. In the larger cage he would actually fly away and keep his back turned, and the screaming continued. The entire living room was not big enough for the both of us. Nobody would have guessed, from the behaviour of the bird in the finch cage, that this is how he really felt. I was not really surprised (though I was disappointed) but this is not my first untame IRN. I feel a cage the size of the entire room would not be unsuitable for Sinbad while he adjusts, but this is currently outside the realm of what I can do. I hope Sinbad's story can elucidate why I'm always so concerned with cage dimensions.
I know I had a lot to say today. I hope I was able to help you relax about the worms you saw, and understand how the big picture affects the small snapshots of behaviour (or bad poo) that you may see. I certainly hope Chiris is OK, and I feel pretty confident about him. Did the store offer any health guarantee or evidence of vetting or quarantine while he was in their care? **ALSO, you don't have to wait for your next visit to get test results. You can call every day and ask if the results are in. If they say they will call you, you can still call every day. They may care, but I guarantee your bird is more important to you than he is to them. If you get the results by phone, you can leave a message to ask the vet if there is needed a change in the medication. On the one hand, they want you to come in and buy another appointment. On the other hand, there is no reason to deny your animal up to the minute care.
-MissK
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Hi MissK,
Thank you for calming all my worries a bit more.
Chiris. Has been doing well so far. He's still quiet which what you said about Sinbad is actually describing him.
He paces and when I try to put my hand in he rans to climb the walls of the cage. He has been eating new seeds i bought and tomatoes that seems to be his fav.
Med wise the vet had given him antibiotics to make sure he didn't have parasites. They called in today to say his fecal lab came out neg..no parasites,
But i still need to take him in next week just to check him. I've done towel holding him..which calms him.
Cage wise I don't know dimensions. I need to look them up.
Thank you for calming all my worries a bit more.
Chiris. Has been doing well so far. He's still quiet which what you said about Sinbad is actually describing him.
He paces and when I try to put my hand in he rans to climb the walls of the cage. He has been eating new seeds i bought and tomatoes that seems to be his fav.
Med wise the vet had given him antibiotics to make sure he didn't have parasites. They called in today to say his fecal lab came out neg..no parasites,
But i still need to take him in next week just to check him. I've done towel holding him..which calms him.
Cage wise I don't know dimensions. I need to look them up.
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
I'm glad there are no parasites. That's great news! Please offer Chiris a little bit of almond or pecan for me. 
(Make sure nothing has been added to it, like salt, sugar, or flavours...)
(Make sure nothing has been added to it, like salt, sugar, or flavours...)-MissK
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Yes I am too...
So I've researched my bby cage type and in petco they are called finch flight cage..is that bad?
Can that be a reason this bby is shy nd quiet?
When I was 11 i had a ringneck well really my brother but he never actd like that on the contrary he was loud and he would step up when we reached out for him..
So I've researched my bby cage type and in petco they are called finch flight cage..is that bad?
Can that be a reason this bby is shy nd quiet?
When I was 11 i had a ringneck well really my brother but he never actd like that on the contrary he was loud and he would step up when we reached out for him..
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Can you post a link to the cage on their website or just measure the one you have?
It's not this one, is it? http://www.petco.com/product/114152/Pet ... -Cage.aspx
It's not this one, is it? http://www.petco.com/product/114152/Pet ... -Cage.aspx
-MissK
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Yes its similar to that one
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Thanks to all who gave me good advice.
I really needed it. It's sad to say..unfortunately my
Beautiful baby ringneck has passed to a better life.
I kinda had a feeling that was going to happen, after vet visit I started seeing signs.
I'm not sure if I'll adopt another baby anytime soon. My son took it bad since he's little and was his
First bby bird. Thanks once again.
I really needed it. It's sad to say..unfortunately my
Beautiful baby ringneck has passed to a better life.
I kinda had a feeling that was going to happen, after vet visit I started seeing signs.
I'm not sure if I'll adopt another baby anytime soon. My son took it bad since he's little and was his
First bby bird. Thanks once again.
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
Cristy, no!!! I am *so* sorry. Did the vet make any firm diagnosis? Since you had the bird such a short time and you did take him to the vet, can you get any compensation or another bird from the seller? (Given the choice, I would opt for compensation, in case they have uncontrolled health issues there.) Vet documentation might be needed, and I'm sure the vet would provide it.
I really wish you the best in processing your loss and helping your child as well. If you do decide, in the future, to try another Ringneck, you can use what you've learned so far to select an appropriate cage and you already have a vet contact, which is good. You never know, but that you might come across a mature bird who needs a hand up. If you do, remember that the bird you get is the bird you get, so it might have some issues. Choose carefully. If you are open to a second hand adult, try the Rescue groups. They will help you be ready and prepared, and they will be able to tell you about the bird because they will have kept it long enough to get to know it. You would be able to visit it, perhaps volunteer to assist with it's care, to help you know if that's the one you really want. And the price will be lower than a pet store, for sure.
However things work out for you, I really wish you the best.
I really wish you the best in processing your loss and helping your child as well. If you do decide, in the future, to try another Ringneck, you can use what you've learned so far to select an appropriate cage and you already have a vet contact, which is good. You never know, but that you might come across a mature bird who needs a hand up. If you do, remember that the bird you get is the bird you get, so it might have some issues. Choose carefully. If you are open to a second hand adult, try the Rescue groups. They will help you be ready and prepared, and they will be able to tell you about the bird because they will have kept it long enough to get to know it. You would be able to visit it, perhaps volunteer to assist with it's care, to help you know if that's the one you really want. And the price will be lower than a pet store, for sure.
However things work out for you, I really wish you the best.
-MissK
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
MissK,
Thanx for those kind words. I'm not sure the vender would do that but I will ask.
I do hope to adopt another. About the rescue birds how.can i get more info of some near me?
I think now I would rather try for an older ringneck from someone who'll know the bird well.
Thanx for those kind words. I'm not sure the vender would do that but I will ask.
I do hope to adopt another. About the rescue birds how.can i get more info of some near me?
I think now I would rather try for an older ringneck from someone who'll know the bird well.
Re: First time IRN owner need help!
If you got any documents with your bird, look in them for any mention of a health guarantee. Even without that, still contact them. Go in person. Ask for help, be nice but firm, and don't be afraid to show your sadness and humanity. Try not to appear angry unless it is a pet store, then use your judgement. If your vet will provide you documentation of the care, have it in hand. Good luck! Be strong!
Here are some thoughts about second hand bird resellers, rescue group, private sale, flippers, retired breeder:
About Rescue groups, I would say ask your vet and also Google for them and contact any bird clubs in your area (might have to google for that as well). Ringnecks are not exactly common in rescues here, but they do show up. I think they are becoming more trendy - I formed this opinion based on how many I have seen in the pet shop. I imagine there will be more of them as time goes by, both mature and young but not babies. People will buy them without doing their homework and then they'll get dissatisfied if the bird is noisy or not tame or can't be petted.
I think a Rescue group would be honest about their birds, and they would appreciate your taking time to get to know the bird and be sure it is a good fit. They would probably have some requirements you have to meet, and they might want to inspect your home. They might have stipulations that you take the cage the bird is already in or they might just want to approve the cage you have. Some groups insist on letting a bird choose you instead of the other way around. I understand their point, but I would not personally tolerate that requirement. I would find a different rescue. Shop around and don't automatically take the first bird you see because it's there. **There is also a chance you might encounter a different type of bird and feel a big connection. No shame there, as long as you research and know what you're getting into.
I've bought two second hand Ringnecks in private sale. It's an iffy way to get your bird, but you can do it if you are well informed, very observant, and lucky. I hit the jackpot with my first, and I was darn lucky because I had not thought to ask certain questions or consider how to evaluate the answers and "read between the lines". In looking for my second, I met and rejected a number of birds who did not meet my list of carefully considered criteria. I gambled on the second bird I bought, and I was a little disappointed because he was not entirely honestly represented. However, he still falls within my criteria, so he's with me. The ideal private seller, as far as I am concerned, is going to know a lot about their bird and his species in general. They will be able to tell you what he likes to eat and his habits, where he came from, how long they had him, the history of his housing and any medical situations. They will have anecdotes about living with him. They will tell you the negative as well as the positive. They will probably be sorry to see him go and they will have questions about you and your intentions. They may send him along with tons of additional things, treats, toys, random special items. They might even ask you to keep in touch or give them an update from time to time.
There is another type of bird reseller you need to be aware of. Here they call them "flippers". These people take in birds (possibly under false pretense) and resell them for profit (again, possibly under false pretense). They might represent themselves as a Rescue but be an organization of only one one person (or couple) and they won't have a website, a business card, or a contract. The price might be attractive, but these people don't know anything about their birds and they don't care. They only want your money. The only way I can think of to help spot them is that the birds might be too cheap, they might have a lot of birds, they probably won't ask anything about you besides when you can pay them, and they might either be too casual or stingy with information or they might spin a big yarn about how perfect the bird is. They might not know even the basics about the species that interests you. The bird might not have a name. I would recommend that you, personally, avoid buying your bird from a flipper. You can bring home a whole lot of trouble that way. I did buy my Lineolated Parakeet from a flipper, and I did well. However, I assessed him carefully before purchase and I spent a lot of time in the flipper's home, inspecting the other birds and how they were cared for. I know how to spot a bird who is showing signs of sickness, (he wasn't, though it's no guarantee) and I took him to the vet right away. Also, he's not exactly my second hand first bird.
It is sometimes possible to get a retired breeder bird right from the breeder. I would consider it a gamble because the practices, nature, and ethics of bird breeders run the gamut. A retired breeder may be prone to give you headaches at breeding time. They might be upset at not having a mate, and this might upset you, in turn. My yellow Canary is such a bird. He is a delight most of the time, but in the first few years it was hard to see him looking uncomfortable. I got an unbred mature bird at the same time, from the same breeder, who did not display the same discomfort or feistiness.
I advise anyone buying a bird to make their own list of "must haves" and "deal breakers". For example, some of my "must haves" were "must be an adult male with a closed leg band". Some of my deal breakers were "cannot pluck or be so untame as to be frantic when approached in the cage". The person who sold Sinbad said he only ever made a little noise in the morning, and that was a big, fat lie. He came very close to eviction from my home due to the excessive noise. However, he has chilled out a lot in his first month with me, and I believe I can handle his current level of vocalization.
Here are some thoughts about second hand bird resellers, rescue group, private sale, flippers, retired breeder:
About Rescue groups, I would say ask your vet and also Google for them and contact any bird clubs in your area (might have to google for that as well). Ringnecks are not exactly common in rescues here, but they do show up. I think they are becoming more trendy - I formed this opinion based on how many I have seen in the pet shop. I imagine there will be more of them as time goes by, both mature and young but not babies. People will buy them without doing their homework and then they'll get dissatisfied if the bird is noisy or not tame or can't be petted.
I think a Rescue group would be honest about their birds, and they would appreciate your taking time to get to know the bird and be sure it is a good fit. They would probably have some requirements you have to meet, and they might want to inspect your home. They might have stipulations that you take the cage the bird is already in or they might just want to approve the cage you have. Some groups insist on letting a bird choose you instead of the other way around. I understand their point, but I would not personally tolerate that requirement. I would find a different rescue. Shop around and don't automatically take the first bird you see because it's there. **There is also a chance you might encounter a different type of bird and feel a big connection. No shame there, as long as you research and know what you're getting into.
I've bought two second hand Ringnecks in private sale. It's an iffy way to get your bird, but you can do it if you are well informed, very observant, and lucky. I hit the jackpot with my first, and I was darn lucky because I had not thought to ask certain questions or consider how to evaluate the answers and "read between the lines". In looking for my second, I met and rejected a number of birds who did not meet my list of carefully considered criteria. I gambled on the second bird I bought, and I was a little disappointed because he was not entirely honestly represented. However, he still falls within my criteria, so he's with me. The ideal private seller, as far as I am concerned, is going to know a lot about their bird and his species in general. They will be able to tell you what he likes to eat and his habits, where he came from, how long they had him, the history of his housing and any medical situations. They will have anecdotes about living with him. They will tell you the negative as well as the positive. They will probably be sorry to see him go and they will have questions about you and your intentions. They may send him along with tons of additional things, treats, toys, random special items. They might even ask you to keep in touch or give them an update from time to time.
There is another type of bird reseller you need to be aware of. Here they call them "flippers". These people take in birds (possibly under false pretense) and resell them for profit (again, possibly under false pretense). They might represent themselves as a Rescue but be an organization of only one one person (or couple) and they won't have a website, a business card, or a contract. The price might be attractive, but these people don't know anything about their birds and they don't care. They only want your money. The only way I can think of to help spot them is that the birds might be too cheap, they might have a lot of birds, they probably won't ask anything about you besides when you can pay them, and they might either be too casual or stingy with information or they might spin a big yarn about how perfect the bird is. They might not know even the basics about the species that interests you. The bird might not have a name. I would recommend that you, personally, avoid buying your bird from a flipper. You can bring home a whole lot of trouble that way. I did buy my Lineolated Parakeet from a flipper, and I did well. However, I assessed him carefully before purchase and I spent a lot of time in the flipper's home, inspecting the other birds and how they were cared for. I know how to spot a bird who is showing signs of sickness, (he wasn't, though it's no guarantee) and I took him to the vet right away. Also, he's not exactly my second hand first bird.
It is sometimes possible to get a retired breeder bird right from the breeder. I would consider it a gamble because the practices, nature, and ethics of bird breeders run the gamut. A retired breeder may be prone to give you headaches at breeding time. They might be upset at not having a mate, and this might upset you, in turn. My yellow Canary is such a bird. He is a delight most of the time, but in the first few years it was hard to see him looking uncomfortable. I got an unbred mature bird at the same time, from the same breeder, who did not display the same discomfort or feistiness.
I advise anyone buying a bird to make their own list of "must haves" and "deal breakers". For example, some of my "must haves" were "must be an adult male with a closed leg band". Some of my deal breakers were "cannot pluck or be so untame as to be frantic when approached in the cage". The person who sold Sinbad said he only ever made a little noise in the morning, and that was a big, fat lie. He came very close to eviction from my home due to the excessive noise. However, he has chilled out a lot in his first month with me, and I believe I can handle his current level of vocalization.
-MissK