Neko the new guy

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MissK
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Thu May 08, 2014 10:18 pm

Donovan~ yes, great photo! Just now coming along to wonder, ig you line up the cage doors to put your guys into the aviary, how do you get them out?

Ranechild~ HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Fats is the clever one.

AJ~ Watering roses always gets me pricked.
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Fri May 09, 2014 4:50 am

Not quite sure what you mean about lining up cage doors MissK.
I walk in with a travel/transport cage which is Mr Bell's old home actually.

close the doors behind me, then release the birds.

That pic was a total fluke. I just wanted to get a pic of them since they were positioned close enough together to get one.

Well my cell phone takes like 2 seconds from the time you hit the button to the time the actual picture is taken. In that time Mr Bell couldn't handle me aiming the cell phone at him anymore and came after it. (he's very possessive of a cell phone) When he came after it poor Neko got startled and took a plunge. I didn't realize I had captured that moment so nicely for about an hour.

I figured it was just a ruined picture

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Fri May 09, 2014 5:17 am

I thought you took Bell's regular old cage/new travel cage to the aviary and lined up the open doors for the bird to transfer. I guess I was thinking of somebody else..... I'm not very smart sometimes! :lol: Or maybe that was the old, pre-Neko way..... :?:
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Fri May 09, 2014 5:39 am

no.. I've always walked in with that cage in my hands. .. then closed the doors behind me, then opened the little cage to release.

Now that mr bell has a newer larger cage i had attempted to hold the old cage up to the new one to get him to go into it so i could take him out, but since they didn't match up perfectly he just went around the little cage and pretty much escaped into the house.

otherwise, yeah maybe you're thinking of someone else :P

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by AJPeter » Fri May 09, 2014 2:56 pm

Mr Bell looks a little harassed!

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by AJPeter » Fri May 09, 2014 2:58 pm

Mr Bell looks a little harassed!

This is strange after the photo l posted this but the photo has gone and left me with two posts sorry about that.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Fri May 09, 2014 3:21 pm

The photo is on page 1, so not gone.
I'm really proud of that pic, and yes mr bell couldnt take it anymore, he gets so jealous of my phone.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by InTheAir » Sat May 10, 2014 12:12 am

Great photo! What lucky boys you have! Sapphire is so jealous of their aviary, she wants one too!

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Sat May 10, 2014 1:05 pm

Just had a brief thunderstorm.. I covered the top of the aviary and let both birds ride it out.. Neko got a little damp, but Mr. Bell shows no signs. I figure because he could find a sweet spot to get away from the rain.
It lasted for about 15 minutes.

Neko takes a dive to the bottom sometimes so this morning I found a small poplar tree to put inside with them. It gives Neko a way to climb back up.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by AJPeter » Sat May 10, 2014 1:21 pm

Billie loves listening to the answer phone messages there are only two but she wants to listen to them every day also when l answer the phone she sits on my shoulder and likes to listen, sometimes she will sqwark juat to let them know she is there. Which l think is jolly decent of her/

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Sat May 10, 2014 1:31 pm

ever sing to your birds? I'll get to singing sometimes and mr bell will almost always come land on me and start doing the wings thing at me

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by AJPeter » Sat May 10, 2014 1:43 pm

I scream when she screams, l sing when she sings. Today she was singing as l played "Won't you come Bill Bailey!" so l joined in with the chorus.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Sat May 10, 2014 4:06 pm

Tonight's supper.. similar to the other pic that resembled a caesar salad... but this one has no romaine lettuce. Instead it has about 2 tablespoons of cooked oatmeal and a scrambled egg.

so..

1 scrambled egg
2 tablespoons of cooked oatmeal
apple shavings
broccoli
cauliflower
red pepper
light spices out of the cabinet

I gotta say this is better than I expected.. apparently oatmeal, egg, and apple goes nicely together.




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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Sat May 10, 2014 8:08 pm

I sing (badly) Rocky Raccoon to Rocky sometimes. I think he likes it.
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by AJPeter » Sun May 11, 2014 1:05 pm

Do you have the music to Rocky Raccoon MissK?

How many birds are you feeding Donovan?

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Sun May 11, 2014 1:44 pm

just two.. there is lots of waste in feeding... i usually eat some of it too just so it doesn't go to waste...

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Sun May 11, 2014 8:31 pm

I just scare it up on You Tube and sing along.
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Mon May 12, 2014 5:15 pm

Don't do it MissK.. you'll always sound better in the car alone than you will on Youtube lol .. but if you do.. we'll check it out ;)

Moving on, i just scratched the back of my neck.. and a little fluffy bird feather turned up.... this is not a good sign.

and on yet another note. I'm seeing a pattern. The last two evenings when Neko put himself to bed.. Mr. Bell decided to go land on the outside perch to have a little fight. Not sure why he does this but it seems to be their thing so, whatever.
(I have an exterior perch setup right next to Neko's main spot so that Mr. Bell can go hang out with him when he wants.)
It goes on for about 20 seconds and they peck and bitch at each other through the bars then Mr. Bell leaves.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Mon May 12, 2014 6:10 pm

You're safe Don - I do not expect to post myself ANY time soon.
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Tue May 13, 2014 6:09 am

Speaking of singing mr bell loves that opera singing bird that speaks spanish. I don't know what kind of bird it is but its big and green, neko won't be exposed to that. Gonna try to make him a talker.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by ranechild » Tue May 13, 2014 7:44 am

I think that photo of the two in the aviary would make a very good rap album cover. It looks confident and violent. That's meant as a compliment

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Wed May 14, 2014 7:15 am

Neko is becoming such a bully to mr bell. He goes well out of his way to make him fly off unless he's occupied with eating.
Yesterday I recorded them for about 20 minutes. All they did the whole time was fight over a toy until they settled on separate ones.
In other cases neko will climb the play stand just to make mr bell fly away which is kinda funny because mr bell just flies to a different part of the cage and it takes neko a little while to get there since he can't fly yet.

Later i'll dig through the forum to see if there's anything about this type of bullying.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by AJPeter » Wed May 14, 2014 1:31 pm

It is called pecking order, and not much you can do Mr Bell will have to make a stand.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Thu May 15, 2014 11:49 am

Do I have a plucker?? I never noticed this until just now when he was wet

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Thu May 15, 2014 1:21 pm

1) HAHAHA! He's all WET! :lol:

2) Did Mr. Bell lose his patience when you were not looking?

3) How bad is it? Whatcha gonna do?
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Thu May 15, 2014 1:54 pm

Yes he's all wet. He loves a shower and a spray bottle, but doesn't seem interested in wading around in bath water. This is the exact opposite of Mr. Bell.

I want him to start liking baths because I have a -huge- plastic pan for bird bathing. It's big enough that both birds could get in with their wings fully extending and never touch each other or the sides. It's about the size of a very small kitchen table.

Anyway... on the plucking, I haven't witnessed any plucking but I saw a spot on Neko's chest recently that was suspicious to me but it was very small so i decided to dismiss it. Then today after his shower I noticed the bare spot and new feather growth on his back and so now I'm concerned he's been plucking.

I suspect that he may have been plucking when I first got him because that bare spot shows signs of growth. Maybe he's over it. I really hope I don't have a plucker since pluckers aren't very attractive :)

But if I end up having to put a lamp shade over his head then so be it.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by AJPeter » Fri May 16, 2014 12:50 pm

Could Neko have got in a fight with Mr Bell and l lost? I have seen parrots, big ones pluck all their feathers except around the neck and head, they look ghastly. But it caused by a mite. If Neko starts to pluck get some anti pluck stuff and make date to see the vet.

I offered Billie a shaower today she stood on the make shift perch but as soon l turned the water on she changed her mind, some days are shower days and some days are not!

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Fri May 16, 2014 1:00 pm

Neko is happy to shower or be misted every day... Mr Bell wants a week at least between baths. He will shower sometimes but I think he has not had positive experiences in the shower.... which is my fault and his bad luck for being my first bird. He was starting to like showering again a few weeks ago until i got the idea to spray him with the mister. That didn't go over so well.

As far as the birds fighting, all I've seen is them bumping their beaks together and grunting about it.
Mr Bell wants badly to be friends with Neko. I don't think he would attack him. It's Neko that's causing the tension between them, and I suspect that may have something to do with him not being able to fly.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Sun May 18, 2014 9:01 am

I think Neko, being as young as he is, may be entering the bluffing stage. I'm not sure what age it happens, but for the last couple of days he's had an attitude and has even tried biting a couple of times.

Luckily he doesn't know how to bite and make it hurt so when he shows signs of not wanting to be messed with I just leave him alone. Hopefully he'll never learn how to use the can-opener like mr bell did.

So i'm not taking it as being bitten.. as much as i'm taking it as him communicating and saying 'i'm not in the mood'.. so.. okay...

On the flipside to that, he was wanting attention a little while ago and was letting me pet him while he made baby bird noises. I had him on my finger and he laid his head down on my hand and had his eyes closed while i was petting his head and neck. So he went from jerk mode to sweet mode.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Sun May 18, 2014 6:40 pm

ya know... You can prepare for a new bird all you want.. but once you realize they're doing their business all over a lower perch or in their water bowl.. you find yourself rearranging the cage.

In my case I had to take a perch and cut a few inches off of it so i could reposition it so he wasn't dropping all over it.... now things seem to be well. He has his one spot he stays in .. and now the food, water, and perches are all clear :)

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Tue May 20, 2014 4:32 pm

Today I was working with Neko when I came home from work.. I came home and found him quite hungry. This morning I put him a bunch of vegetables in his food bowl and when I came hom I found all or most of them on the bottom of the cage. I'm betting he did this early and didn't actually eat all day. So I used this as a bit of a training opportunity. First I gave him some free food to take the edge off, but this bird is perpetually hungry so I could still work with him afterward.

Anyway, even though he can't fly I'm teaching him to 'fly' to me when I call him. So anyway I usually just make him stretch out to have to step up on my finger in order to get his treat.. When he steps up I drop my hand down a bit so it makes him have to flap his wings.

Today he was so excited that he was jumping and flapping to get to me.... so i held my hand down a few inches and was making him take a leap of faith to get his treat. I held my hand about 6 inches down and about 6 inches out and he was doing it.. jumping and "flying" to me.

My concern is the fact that he knows he can't fly. I'm imagining that I'm building trust this way. Is it possible this will somehow reinforce any helpless feelings he might have while he's clipped?.. "being forced to jump to get food"? Could this actually have the opposite effect in the future and make him -not- want to fly to me?
Or could this make him really happy and confident to have a little successful flight that doesn't end in a thump

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Tue May 20, 2014 10:56 pm

Donovan, you're such a nice guy. :D Don't overthink this flying thing. He's eager, he's having success, it's a good thing. Later on he will develop a new way of getting this done, like a little kid who doesn't need a stepstool to reach the shelf anymore.
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Wed May 21, 2014 4:29 am

Mr Bell eating some seed and wishing i'd get that phone out of his face.
Neko checking out his reflection and wishing i'd take him back inside.
They're so mistreated.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Wed May 21, 2014 8:42 am

SO sad, so very sad..... :D
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Wed May 21, 2014 7:49 pm

Birds know birds I suppose.

Last few nights Mr. Bell has chosen to go to Neko's cage and pick a fight through the bars. Neko has gotten to ignore him when he does it... therefore providing no form of reinforcement for this bad behavior.
Now, though, Mr. Bell is being a lot nicer .. Neko is responding by touching beaks through the cage bars. Apparently they like interacting that way. Outside of the cage they're both a couple of touch-me-nots

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Wed May 21, 2014 9:20 pm

Soooooooooooooooooooooo, maybe Mr. Bell might know a little something about that boo-boo on Necko after all?
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Thu May 22, 2014 5:50 pm

I have decided that Neko is officially going through his bluffing. He's had an attitude the last two days. Even when I hand feed him he seems to get angry about it. This means this is an extremely influential, and brief, time in his life. I need to research this immediately before I lose the ability to physically handle him for a lifetime.

I could be wrong. I need to research the age range of the bluffing

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Thu May 22, 2014 6:26 pm

You're not going to lose the ability to handle him for a lifetime. Even if you had to go back to square one, remember they can learn, they can change. Do your research. Let me know how it ends.
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Sun May 25, 2014 1:51 pm

Today I have both birds outside. At this point it's late afternoon and they've been outside for probably 7 hours now.

Every few minutes I have to look outside to check on Neko and make sure he hasn't fallen down. I still need to rig up something to help him climb back to the top when he decides to try to fly.

Anyway I just checked on them again and I see Mr. Bell just inches from Nekos face.. displaying and regurgitating for him. (or pretending to).And Neko is letting him do it.

This is huge progress for these birds as Neko has always been in the habit of chasing Mr. Bell away. Over the last few days I've seen more subtle reactions out of Neko when Mr. Bell gets too close. And today I'm seeing full blown tolerance.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Mon May 26, 2014 2:00 pm

Ever had an animal that knew Left from Right?

My dad's dog wants to cradle in your left arm against you.. but not your right..

and Neko seems to enjoy being touched on the right side of his face and neck... but not his left.

weird stuff but it is somehow what they learned.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Mon May 26, 2014 4:20 pm

I used to have my bed pushed against the left wall of my bedroom. Since then I've gotten a larger bed and moved it to the center of the room. The dog still will only approach to jump up when I call her from the right side of the bed, the only side that was available when it was pushed against the wall. Even if she is on the left and I pat the bed and invite her up, she has to go all the way around and jump up on the other side. :lol: The other dog has no such hangups.
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Mon May 26, 2014 4:41 pm

btw... the plucking i was worried about seems to have disappeared... the raw spots on Neko's chest and back are growing back with no further signs of interference

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Mon May 26, 2014 7:37 pm

That's a relief. Keep eyes open for a repeat.
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Wed May 28, 2014 5:53 pm

Neko has blood up towards the base of his tail feathers tonight. When i spotted it it was still wet but not really bleeding... honestly i'm not that concerned about it, but I'm wondering what caused it.

Could preening (or even plucking) cause it?.. or could it be a broken blood feather? I have no knowledge of things like that

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Wed May 28, 2014 8:31 pm

Don, I would be freaking out if my bird was bloodied twice from unknown causes. Glad you're keeping your cool. But let's round up the suspects, shall we?

Individuals known to possess a weapon are Mr. Bell and Neko, himself. Could there be an irritant on Neko that he is trying to resolve? A pest or the lingering discomfort of a pest no longer present? Could Mr. Bell be protecting one of his possessions when you're not looking?

Who else has a weapon and opportunity? What creatures can access your birds while they are in the aviary? Or the home? Cats? Raccoons? Snakes? Rodents? Others? Remember that a wild animal doesn't have to be inside the aviary to cause harm - my mom's old Canary can attest to that. He lost his whole tail to a raccoon when she left him caged on the porch past twilight. If there is a predator on the outside who can reach in, or the bird is unaware near the cage wall - it could happen.

How else can a bird be punctured, maybe passively? Is there any rough or sharp spot he could have connected with? Could he have fallen or just landed awkwardly on something, even a toy? How about stubby little broken branches? Part of the cage that's not quite 100%? Something in the cage that you didn't realize was broken?

Did you locate the exact source of the bleeding this time?
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Wed May 28, 2014 8:44 pm

This is the first time he's been bloody ... what I posted before was a picture of some missing feathers that i spotted while he was wet. I checked those recently and they seem to be growing back.

I left my phone at work by accident so i wasn't able to get a picture. I don't have a camera otherwise.
But it was at the base of his tail and it was a few drops that even ran down a little. By the time i saw it it was already drying up which is why it didn't really concern me.

I spent a fair amount of time with both birds together this evening. It happened while i was right here but i have no idea what caused it. It didn't seem to bother him but i'm sure he felt it. Only thing I can think is that he took a spill.. once again thinking he can fly. Really pisses me off that they clipped his wings so severely. He can hardly even slow down on his way to the floor. If you're going to clip a bird's wings leave them -some- ability to control where they land at least.

So I just wondered if he hit his tail feathers pretty hard. Otherwise I have no clue. My dad used to keep birds and tells me he has seen them draw blood while preening.. so.. i just don't know..

And i'm still concerned he may be a plucker but i don't have strong evidence that it's something he plans to continue doing.

so.. I just don't know

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Wed May 28, 2014 9:04 pm

Well, as always I wish the best. That first picture must look worse than it was in person - it looks like a sore wound to me, at the very least subcutaneous bleeding. It's also possible that when Neko started bleeding more recently he knocked open something already done. Not trying to promote trouble, just trying to cover every explanation.

For some reason I hesitate to endorse a plucker theory. I have no rationale, since I am far from a plucking expert. Is he losing any feathers?

I'm going to email SkyesCrew on this; maybe she will look in and have an opinion............
-MissK

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by MissK » Thu May 29, 2014 6:46 am

Here's what SkyesCrew contributed:

Tell Donovan he does not have a plucker. Most likely if the bird was DNA'd the person took the feathers from the chest. Second, the blood up near the base of the tail. If he tried to fly and landed with his tail tucked, he could have broken something. That warrants a trip to the vet. A broken tail bone in a bird is not something to play around with. Ask him if the tail is ever up or if it's always pointed down. Ask if he has range of motion or if it's always limp.
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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Thu May 29, 2014 7:57 am

The tail bone didn't seem damaged. I didn't notice any awkward posture. But i'll check that out more tonight when I get home.

This morning he seemed fine and even seemed fine all evening last night around the time the blood appeared.

He was surgically sexed. The picture I posted is of his upper back, prime preening / plucking spot. There was also some feather damage on his chest that seems to have occurred around the same time that pic of his back was taken.

I don't believe he's a plucker but he may have dabbled with it.
The blood was a mystery. I looked this morning and it looked good. But now that I think about it, I thought I saw blood there once before but dismissed it because it was hardly there. Maybe he has an old scratch back there that he won't let heal.

like, knocking off a scab and having a little blood pool up from it.

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Re: Neko the new guy

Post by Donovan » Thu May 29, 2014 4:19 pm

okay.. now i'm home.. i have inspected Nekos tail. The blood from last night is gone except for a tiny spot that stained..

I moved his feathers around and found at least one tail feather that is red with blood in the sheath... it's not bleeding... so.. i'm not gonna worry about it.

I know this is damage from his inability to fly or even create enough wind to at least control his crashes. I suspect he hit his tail on the seed skirt around the cage and bent a feather in a bad way. Imagine bending a fingernail back.

anyway.. he's cage bound for the next few days. Since he likes to check to see if he can fly yet.. I'll have to keep him locked up for a while and really limit his freedom until he can at least slow himself down on his way to the floor.

On the bright side he's spending more time with his vegetables this evening since he has nothing else to do

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