New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him.

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MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

Hi Abbi!
Weekly update. We have tried with giving him treats and announcing these treats, he comes down and does have his treats but only after we are at a safe distance.
So, this sounds good. Do you get the feeling he is making the connection between you coming along and announcing treats and the treats being there to eat? That would be ideal.
Tried cutting down on treats so he wants them more, but no real effect.
You don't need to cut down on the treat until he's taking them the way you want - ie, until it's "working". The reason for reducing the size of the treat is two-fold: 1) You want him to get the treat, appreciate his reward, but not spend all his time eating and getting distracted from your goal and 2) You don't want him to get all full and lazy before you have accomplished what you came for. Right now you are still in the "lookie how I have a jackpot of goodies - you *want* to be my friend" stage.
He is still getting stressed when we are close by, he flaps around inside the cage ;(
I'm sorry about this. Review your approach, make sure you are not surprising him, you're gentle, not moving too fast or creeping like a predator, you're bringing treats. When you get to the spot that is too close for his comfort, if you turn around and face away from him, does he manage to settle at all?
The notable positive is he is turning to face us most of the time if the distance is fine and when we sit near him to eat.
Am I understanding this correctly, he has *changed* his behaviour for the better? This sounds quite fine indeed. I would inch closer, and when I say inch, I mean literally move the place you sit closer only by inches over time.

Abbi, I know the slow pace has got to be frustrating, but if you are seeing a positive change, then you are doing something right. Have you got him set up in the bigger cage? How does he like it? How do you like it? Have you found out his #1 favourite food? Keep trying. You both can do this!
-MissK
Tyeman
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman »

just a thought would it be more effective to move the treat closer inch by inch or yourself closer inch by inch?
MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

I want Abbi to gradually reduce the distance that he sits from the bird, to help him get in closer, to help Heisenbird accept him closer. He cannot currently get close enough to pass the bird a treat directly without upsetting the bird.
-MissK
Tyeman
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman »

MissK wrote:I want Abbi to gradually reduce the distance that he sits from the bird, to help him get in closer, to help Heisenbird accept him closer. He cannot currently get close enough to pass the bird a treat directly without upsetting the bird.
yes but i was just wondering if inching the treat closer to abbi would be more effective than inching Abbi closer to the treat and bird.. if ya know what i mean.. or are you just talking in general not treat time..
MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

I really meant in general, when he's near the bird, and specifically when he's eating, to help with the goal of the bird accepting his presence calmly.

I'm interpreting your other suggestion to mean something like having the bird follow a treat trail that leads ultimately to Abbi? I would not dismiss that; it could be worth a try. You would have to use a heck of a jackpot treat, though, at the stage this bird is in. Following a treat is, essentially, luring. Once Heisenbird understands and is on board with the concept of following a lure, Abbi will be able to let him out. That's when I think the treat trail idea could come into play.

I rather think, though, it would end up a snatch and run situation for quite some time. Still, I think this is how folks tame the wild animals at the park, to example. Sit still and toss out a trail of treats. Perhaps Abbi can implement both of these strategies once he starts letting the bird loose in the room.
-MissK
Tyeman
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman »

ahh right yea i get ya
Abbi30
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 »

Hey guys,

Thanks MissK for that, new cage is in, he's trying to settle at the moment. so the distance has gone back a little bit. I've added a pic for you to see. Still trying different treats. grapes and pomegranate seeds are still a winner. still announcing them and giving him treats on the hour, sitting by him when we eat, talking etc. difficult to edge closer to him like you guys are suggesting. other than giving him a treat and sitting closer to him.

Abbi
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MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

Abbi, the cage looks nice. I wish you were local to me so I could run over and help you furnish it with wonderful things!!!

Since you're about to go buy stuff, please, please let me convince you to use as much natural material as you can. If you can research and obtain natural (and free!) bird-safe branches (maybe from a friend who has their own land), that would be ideal. Failing that, there are some nice things on the market. PERCHES SHOULD BE OF THE DIAMETER THAT THE BIRD'S FEET GO 75% AROUND THEM, WITH AT LEAST ONE SLIGHTLY BIGGER AND ONE SIGHTLY SMALLER. This is for proper foot health and exercise.

Going to make myself some tea and look on Amazon for you.
-MissK
MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

PERCHES
Falling in the category of "random diameter", here's a neat perch: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liane-bird-perc ... uctDetails
Avoid ones like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kerbl-Wooden-Pe ... ords=perch
This is the sort of perch we use for the main perches. Ours are made of fir, with the bark still on. http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Range-Branc ... ords=perch
These are expensive, hard to clean, and very chewable. Still, they are softer underfoot and some birds really like them. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sisal-Zigzag-Pa ... parrot+toy

EXTRA NICE
There are several styles of feeders. I found these to be the easiest to use. They are available in a variety of sizes, so see them in person to select a size. I like those which are about four fingers in diameter for liquids, and about three fingers bigger for solids. If you feed seeds, be sure to use the bigger size so chaff doesn't bury the fresh seeds.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rosewood-Stainl ... =coop+cups
The hang-on style are easily dislodged and thrown about. The rotate-and lock style are annoying for the human in VERY short order. Only use them if your bird proves it can and will throw the others. Last resort. SO annoying.
You will certainly want a few of these for making kabobs of fresh foods, and also for building toys with blocks, beads, leather bits, etc. Cautions: Get only stainless steel, and make sure the stick screws into the top part. If you get the one with a screw-off nut at the bottom, Heisenbird will be unscrewing it and dumping the contents in no time. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fruit-Holder-En ... parrot+toy

TOYS
Here are toys that my bird is known to like, presented for your shopping or DIY inspiration. DIY is best, and less expensive. Also you have most control, not buying things your bird won't use, or being able to concentrate on things he loves. You WILL need to rotate, though, because birds get bored with stuff. I got tired of looking online, so certainly there are more. Maybe you get the idea. Northern Parrots seems to be a nice store?

One of these, in various weights, could be your best DIY toy friend.... be sure to get untreated & natural. http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... ral%20jute
One of these is enough, or build something like it DIY. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ruff-Tumble-Bar ... parrot+toy
Things that may be appreciated, but quickly destroyed. There is concern about swallowing the bits of the little balls inside. Also, anything on the floor for long will get poopy.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/King`s-Roll-Rin ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Munch-Balls-Wov ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Woven-Paper-Sti ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ruff-Tumble-Hip ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bird-Kabob-Mini ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colourful-Wood- ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colourful-Wood- ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Natural-Chews-P ... parrot+toy
This was a huge hit until I left it in too long and he got tired of it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Happy-Pet-Treas ... parrot+toy
We don't have this, but I'm going to look for one right now!! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hide-`n`-Treat- ... parrot+toy
-MissK
Abbi30
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 »

Miss K

Im off work today so, I'm gonna get on it!! Thank you for all the links, they all look super.

Abbi
Donovan
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Donovan »

Birds don't always handle change so well but they -do- adapt after a short time. Admittedly I have not read every word on this thread, but I did see the pictures. (Nice place btw) The old cage was practically sitting on the floor, and even the new one should be placed onto some kind of little table maybe.

Now as far as him being tamed before that may very be true. But now you have to start from scratch. The taming he received before becomes only a basic foundation and the rest is on you.

If the bird does not take treats from your hand then just hold a treat through the bars while you're just sitting there doing your normal thing. Don't look at him very much and don't even talk to him. Just sit there holding a peanut or something through the bars.

This requires having your bird cage right next to you. So you may need to rethink its permanent location. You may sit there a half hour before he even comes to terms with your hand being there. He may not take the treat. It might take a week of doing this before he works up the nerve to come to it. Eventually, he will take the treat, and when he does he'll have an epiphany that says, "hey this guy's not so bad"

Continue doing this until he gets better at it, taking things from you more readily. Eventually, assuming you're letting him out of his cage, if even to just explore the top of it, you can give him treats while outside. Again this may require just holding the treat a foot or two away while ignoring him, or it may not. It's up to him on that one. Let him walk over to you on his own terms.

This will all be more effective if his cage is not constantly being moved or rearranged.

Anyway, once it gets to where he will take treats from you outside the cage, it's time to up the ante. Try holding the treat just out of his reach, make him really stretch to get to it. Once he's used to it, back up another inch or so, so his only hope of getting the treat from the person he now trusts is to hop over to your hand to eat it.


Now on the cage subject, don't overload him with toys and perches. Change his one or two toys out every day or two.

Get a small wire or chain (make sure you know what it made of and determine if the material is safe) and try hanging up some cauliflower or peppers or a giant collard leaf, turn healthy food into chew toys.

I like to put at least one natural perch in the cage, an actual twig. This can be tricky to get the right size and shape.

Anyway, I may post a bit more later, i'm a bit pressed for time right now. Plus I should read more in the thread.
Abbi30
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 »

Donavan that sounds very sound advice. Thanks for the compliments on the place. I have bought some millet seeds maybe these would work well as keeping them held at a distance. We can't really move the cage around but we may sit by the cage more. We work from there now and gives him more close contact to us.

I will try giving him treats, announced and try your method of holding something for a while and see if his curiosity gets the best of him and he does turn up, i might make a false arm as not to lose mine in the process ; )

Yeah form the above threads i got the same point, a natural perch or set of perches and some toys to swap around.

How does everyone feel about mirrors, are they a good thing or not?

Abbi
Donovan
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Donovan »

Mirrors are wonderful for indian ringnecks. If you want to put one in his cage put it somewhere he can see it and touch it, and make sure it's not somewhere that will force him to see himself all the time.

My bird has a different relationship with about 3 mirrors in the house. It makes them happy to look. No doubt someone will warn you about bonding issues but I wouldn't worry about it.

A while back I got him a hand held mirror, like a paddle, as soon as he saw me approaching him with it he went nuts, he knew I was bringing him a new mirror. He flew to me and climbing down my shirt and practically killing himself to get to see. As I was hanging it up he was all over my hands and the handle... very excited. So yes, get a mirror, get a couple of different kinds, change them out sometimes, and experiment with different locations.
MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

Rocky has a little mirror. He talks to it once in a while and ignores it the rest of the time. Unless it causes trouble, I see no evidence that a mirror is not fine.
-MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter »

I have read that you should take down or cover wall mirrors when your bird is flying, but the mirrors in my LR do not bother my Alex hen and there are two, both wall mirrors, one behind her cage and by the door, she likes to bob to the one behind her cage but does not try and feed her image.

I am not keen on those little budgie type mirrors in the cage because the bird must be trying to work out where its image has gone as soon as it moves. It must be very frustrating for birds not to see their whole bodies, like trying to look at the world through a porthole! Sorry MissK and Donovan.
MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

It's OK. Birds don't shave.
-MissK
Abbi30
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 »

Hey all.

As an update, sorry been away for a while and been busy with work. Heisenbird is getting on well. He's a lot more confident now, he's stopped 'freaking' out when we are close to his cage, he ventures in and out if there's any seeds around. He's taking on his diet well, fruit mainly (grapes, kiwis, apples, pomegranate and mango) not eating too much veg yet so don't know if I should worry, I'm giving him a mix of seeds every few days and some pellets on other days (but he's not having the pellets yet), any ideas about this would be good. His cage is nice and busy now (I'll put some new pics up when I'm on the laptop).
I was wondering what the next step would be to get him to eat from hand and then eventually getting him to 'step up' any ideas or would I be rushing it given he's just getting comfortable with us.

Thanks in advance

Abbi
MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

Abbi, so nice to hear from you and good news, too! I'm glad.

I would say keep the good food coming, Identify the favourite, and start offering that in small bits through the cage bars. See how it goes. Also, let people in the house feed each other in front of the bird and offer bits.
-MissK
Abbi30
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 »

Hey Miss K, thanks

Yep, already started feeding him pomegranate through the bars and he'll come and have it. Any other ideas on how to get him to eat from hand or stepping up?

Abbi
MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

If he will eat the pomegranate that you hold through the bars of the cage, the next step is to have him follow that food as you move it (just a little, be nice) along the outside. Once he follows that food lure solidly you start offering the food closer to the door, closer to the open door, at the edge of the open door, on the perch inside. Thus you build to feeding by hand from other locations than through the bars.

Stepping up -- I cheated, so maybe ask someone else. I can't tell you to do what I, myself, was unwilling to do. However, that would be using the food lure to entice him onto the hand/wrist/finger/stick. There was a certain amount of "testing" done by my bird that I was too wussy to continue. I trained a different bird to step up while he watched, and 30 days later he hopped on all by himself.
-MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter »

Abbi30 l think they will naturally step up, l offer my hand to my Alexandrin Hen and if she lifts a foot that means l can go closer and she will step up, if she looks at me as if l am daft then l wait for another time some times she decides this is a step too far and pins her eys and l know to get out double quick. Some people train their birds to step up when ever they comand, if that is what you want then search the forum.
MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

AJ, I think your bird was second hand and may have learned to step up somewhere in her previous life.
:wink:
-MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter »

Yes of course MissK, you hold a good point there, but it was not something she did from the beginning, all l got for my efforts were bites, that is until Billie lifted a foot and placing my hand close to her she stepped up, If she had been trained she might only stepped on command "Step up" But even now that means nothing to her.
MissK
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK »

We who keep the second hand birds will never really know for sure. I can say that for all Rocky will step onto my wrist (generally) when it is offered, he displays no understanding what "step up" means. He only hears these words when Ranechild visits. :lol: Still, she told me one time he actually said "step up" to her. He still sometimes comes out with words I never heard him say before, in the previous owner's gravelly speech. Unfortunately, I'm really bad understanding accents in general, so i don't understand. He's loud and clear on the one good word he learned from me ("What??")and I can tell sometimes he's working on "Perfect" and "Good Bird!!" in my voice.
-MissK
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