SL Edged

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

SL Edged pics of Carmen's (posted with permission)

Blue
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Cobalt TurquioseBlue
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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

another argument for Cinnamon in this bird- look at his rachis-

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it is much, much lighter than this cock who can only be split for Cinnamon

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Ring0Neck
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Shey,

if the older bird is a hen then you're forgetting hen's edged phenotype is same as a df edged male.

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Ring0Neck wrote:Shey,

if the older bird is a hen then you're forgetting hen's edged phenotype is same as a df edged male.

nope not forgetting- that bird was determined to be a cock by some members of the board (and myself)

Rachis:
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same bird on the far right- hen on the left
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hen at the front, cock at the back
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McmillanBirds
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Re: SL Edged

Post by McmillanBirds »

Hi all

Just a few pics. A cobalt turq edged. I have placed a standard blue baby next to it so one can see the comparison. The edging has made the baby appear quite a bit lighter. I assumed normal blue so pulled from the nest, when I had it next to the other blue baby I realised my mistake.

Taken last week
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The standard blues wing
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The cobalt turq edged wing
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when compared together at that age
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wing comparison done on sunday just before I took the blue baby to its new home
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tail comparison
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and finally some pics taken today
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Here are pics of the one sibling. A turq grey edged(?masking cobalt)

last week
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today
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And finally, Shey, just for you as you are interested in the green series edged babies

2 grey green edged babies, 1 is better marked than the other
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So, after those millions of photos( i have a serious addiction :roll: :lol: ) I hope they come in handy :lol:

Take Care
Carmen
sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

great set of pics Carmen! looking forward to how they all end up looking.
love the GreyGreen edged- I reluctantly passed up on a edged GreyGreen Cinnamon hen a couple of days ago as I don't currently have the aviary space to add Grey- I know the person who breeds the edged though, so will be keeping a close eye on what next pops up for sale... :)

PS.. I have a serious photo taking addiction too!
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Re: SL Edged

Post by McmillanBirds »

Hi all

An update

?cobalt turq grey edged, pics were taken with a camera, just over a week ago before it went to its new home.

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I will try get updated images for this baby.

Cobalt turq edged, pic taken with my phone last night. Will do proper photos in natural light when the weather clears.

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This is another sibling of these 2. A creamino (?cobalt ?edged)

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And then the 2 grey green edged babies

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McmillanBirds
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Re: SL Edged

Post by McmillanBirds »

updated pics

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SCB 22
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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 »

Any idea what these marking could be from on this young female? She is a year old now.
She has the black looking marking since a chick.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew »

Those grey green edged babies are so beautiful. :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Re: SL Edged

Post by McmillanBirds »

Skyes_crew wrote:Those grey green edged babies are so beautiful. :D
Thanks :) waiting for the dna results to come back. I think they are both males though, keeping one for future breeding.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew »

I'd have a hard time letting go of either of them :D

SCB22...it looks like stress barring or maybe damage to the feather structure. Has she had her year old molt yet? If it doesn't disappear with that, then I have no idea.
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SCB 22
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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 »

Skyes_crew wrote:I'd have a hard time letting go of either of them :D

SCB22...it looks like stress barring or maybe damage to the feather structure. Has she had her year old molt yet? If it doesn't disappear with that, then I have no idea.
She has had it since a chick, and seems a male sibling in another household has it too, yes she moulted once last year and once this year and it only seems to have increased with moults... I thought stress barring too, but she is a happy well adjusted bird, with plenty of time out the cage, and never shows any signs of anything to stress her out...
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew »

When the new feathers break through, is it dark immediately or does it gradually turn dark? Also, what are the parents of the birds?
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SCB 22
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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 »

They are immediately dark, father was a normal green, mother was green cinnamon edged bird.

3 males and 1 female in the clutch.

Only in touch with owner of the one male and this female.
And seems they both have the odd marking, but i am trying to get more recent pics of the male, but here is one

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SCB 22
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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 »

That was before his moult this year, same as the female, and hers got darker, i am trying to see if the male has gotten darker as well.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew »

I found this great article on fault barring...but I'm not so sure it applies if the marks are getting darker each molt. Are they in the same identical location each time?

http://www.birdresearch.dk/unilang/faul ... ltbar5.pdf
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SCB 22
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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 »

its hard to tell, seems to be the same place, and darker. Male has more of a set "pattern" across his wings, where as she seems to be a bit more all over the place?

Glanced over the article, and i just find it strange that 2 birds, in complete different households, one is an aviary bird, one an indoors pet, should have the same / similar markings, and are brother and sister, it is 2 different set ups and situations if you know what i mean? if both birds had been in the same household i would have said that its fault / stress barring ?

Anyone else have any idea?
trabots
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Re: SL Edged

Post by trabots »

Pluck a couple of adjacent blackened feathers outside of moulting time. They will no doubt grow in ok and then start losing colour and are brittle at the ends which get ragged from normal preening. I had the same feather issues with some of my lorikeets. Improved diet seemed to assist. It is not a colour mutation.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 »

i dont see how their diets could be improved any further, they are on a pellet diet, in addition to seeds as well as a selection of fresh fruit and veg? not an identical diet as they are in different homes, but the same basic elements. Different brand of pellets and offered different fruit and veg.

As mentioned one is a wild avairy bird, one is an indoor pet, i just find it odd that 2 birds in the different circumstances have the same thing.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew »

Part of that article addresses fault barring as a genetic occurrence. It is possible that they are just more susceptible to surrounding stressors...ie...noise, handling, weather. When the feather structure becomes brittle it breaks off or becomes ragged and leaves a darkened almost purple like appearance.
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew »

I have a really good mentor :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

OP hen's true colours are finally being revealed- and (Ben & Johan) finally a shot of her flights! :)

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her son
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew »

Wow he's beautiful!!!!!
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

OP hen's true colours are finally being revealed- and (Ben & Johan) finally a shot of her flights! :)


Sky,
Are you talking about me or Johan? :lol:
Bird is a she ;)


Shey,
IYO what is she?
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Skyes_crew
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew »

Ring0Neck wrote:
OP hen's true colours are finally being revealed- and (Ben & Johan) finally a shot of her flights! :)


Sky,
Are you talking about me or Johan? :lol:
Bird is a she ;)


Shey,
IYO what is she?

Ummm...no comment :mrgreen:

The son in the last pic lol
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Skyes_crew wrote:
Ring0Neck wrote:
OP hen's true colours are finally being revealed- and (Ben & Johan) finally a shot of her flights! :)


Sky,
Are you talking about me or Johan? :lol:
Bird is a she ;)


Shey,
IYO what is she?

Thanks Mel- :D


Lol @ the first bit!!
Ben- she's a well marked Cinnamon Green SL Edged as far as I know.. I thought you were waiting for the flight shots- I've been waiting since April? myself lol
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Yes & Yes :D Nice shots
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Johan S
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote:
OP hen's true colours are finally being revealed- and (Ben & Johan) finally a shot of her flights! :)


Sky,
Are you talking about me or Johan? :lol:
Bird is a she ;)


Shey,
IYO what is she?
:lol:

IMO, cinnamon edged green. When you look at the hen, one can see that there are some very diluted feathers, and some brighter ones. This isn't uncommon this time of the year with cinnamon birds. And of course, edged is seen in her flights and it is visible in her son (sex-linked dominant).
sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Ring0Neck wrote: :D Nice shots
:) thanks- I can't wait for her to re-emerge

those newer feathers are very similar in shade/colour to her 3 month old son's-- speaking of which, does anyone know if SL Edge darkens with age?
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

here they are altogether;

Wildtype sire (top) Cinnamon Green SL Edge dam (left) and Green sf SL Edge/Cinnamon offspring(right)


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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Ring0Neck wrote:
Ring0Neck wrote: {bare in mind this (being SL Edged) is the only mutation in IRNs where females look different (lighter) then sf males}.
... of the same age :D
but then, the pic of your chick would be irrelevant..? ps- my chick and intheair's chick are of the same age just about-

I have asked another edged breeder about my chick, and they have said that sf males are slightly lighter than Wildtype, not much difference between them- which is inline with what we already know.
I have asked to see a pic of his Green sf edged cock in together with a Wildtype so I could see a comparison between his- I am yet to see this difference (whatever it is) from a different bloodline.

let's discuss over here- so not to take away from Clare's thread
Ben,
any chance you could take some pics of your sfViolet Blue sf SL Edged chick in with some of your other sfViolet Blue (can be Parblue or straight) chicks for some comparison shots?

Anyone have a pic of a Green SL Edged hen (without Cinnamon) preferably next to a Wildtype?

Mother & son
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... 999244.jpg

Father & son
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... 9df04d.jpg

I've asked:
those newer feathers are very similar in shade/colour to her 3 month old son's-- speaking of which, does anyone know if SL Edge darkens with age?
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »



Will take some pics as soon as i can.
The others are in a flight cage

See this post
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 337#p97016


--------------------------------------------------
lets take green color and start from beginning

We're most likely to see 6 different SL Edged here in OZ being:
SF Edged Male
DF Edged Male
SL Edged hen
Cinnamon SF Edged male
Cinnamon DF Edged male
Cinnamon Edged hen


hen's color is closer to a DF SL Edged male

Shey, which ones are yours?
I don't have edged in green so i'm of little help, perhaps Tiennie will chip in.


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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

whenever you can Ben, no rush (appreciate it)

thanks for the link to the other thread- interesting on Tienie's edged cock being split for adm Pied and being of a lighter phenotype than what is considered 'normal' although I can not tell how much the colour deviates without a reference bird in the pic. It also ties in neatly with my cocks feet description asked by me earlier in another thread--- seems it could be a possibility.

Interested in Tienie's thoughts :)

Anyhow, the two (edged) are as follows-

SF Edged Male--------------------------Youngster
DF Edged Male
SL Edged hen
Cinnamon SF Edged male
Cinnamon DF Edged male
Cinnamon Edged hen------------------------------Dam

youngster: dark overcast days -no flash
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to me, his phenotype is what I'd expect a Green SL Edged hen to look like.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Pics of the violet edged male

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cleared up the fog, same image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Thanks Ben- seems we get a bit of a variance between different lines- There was one pic I saw just recently 8) that I thought for sure must have been a hen due to it's very light appearance- but nope it's a cock--- was one of your birds :lol: So it seems we get some sf cocks extremely diluted and others in-between, others that look almost normal.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Hi Shey,

Have you considered DF Edged & perhaps Cinnamon?
& if you look at cinnamon pics during moult you will surely get a difference, even in the same bird how it looked before/during/after moult, during they look better than pieds.

any of these?
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgez.jpg

Most Pairs i acquired were males edged split cinn & cinn edged hens
so DF & Cinn was always on the table for all offspring.

Edged will certainly keep us entertained, & i also keep an open mind in case there's another mutation in play through my edged.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

sheyd wrote:So it seems we get some sf cocks extremely diluted and others in-between, others that look almost normal.
I agree with this. Lots of variation in SF edged males.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Would you like to elaborate Johan?

I noticed mentions in posts re variation of Edged phenotype, perhaps you could extend on that for us?

overall we have 4 most common phenotypes for males in OZ as most have been cinn. crossed

sf edged, sf edged cinn. df edged, df edged cinn.

and perhaps a great variation as Johan mentioned :!:
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Shey,

I just had another look at the pic i uploaded and it looks rather light the violet edged.
Ask Clair, she has seen it.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

We have two lines, two fairly well marked male birds, and some males from a decent looking hen, yet her sons aren't that well marked. Tienie is the person to speak to regarding variation, he has a huge collection of edged birds compared to ours.

Mother
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Son
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Different cock, much better marked
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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas »

Johan S wrote:We have two lines, two fairly well marked male birds, and some males from a decent looking hen, yet her sons aren't that well marked. Tienie is the person to speak to regarding variation, he has a huge collection of edged birds compared to ours.
Maybe alleles of the same locus??? Remember here in Germany we a breeder who is owning birds which look and inherit like "SL Edged" birds but he still believes both mutations are different. I will start a new topic about it then i have some more freetime. Pics could be find here: http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 50#p103873

madas
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

Madas, it's not impossible. I personally don't prefer to explain different expressions of a similar mutation as alleles, but rather to think of alleles as completely different mutations at the same locus (say pastel, bronze fallow, NSLino and DEC; all with unique characteristics). Or in other words, no amount of selective breeding of one allele with the wildtype will change the phenotype of that allele into another, so pallid x wildtype will never result in SLino (of course pallid x SLino could dilute pallid eventually, so I tried to choose my words carefully).
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

The one on the left I think Ben. imo Cinnamon doesn't make much difference to the overall body colour in blue series edged birds, apart from the flights (& claws- also the central feather tail shaft). From what I have seen so far.
Maybe alleles of the same locus???
Stefan, I have recently wondered this myself

Johan- I wonder if it's possible that dfDark may have an erasing effect on edged- meaning that it can't display/display as it normally would?
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Shey,

That's a DF SL Edged Cinnamon Blue male.

We get scalloping effect on:
DF Edged Cinnamon males
EF Edged Cinnamon hens


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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S »

sheyd wrote:Johan- I wonder if it's possible that dfDark may have an erasing effect on edged- meaning that it can't display/display as it normally would?
Shey, it's not entirely impossible. I have wondered the same thing in the past. And from discussions with other breeders, they have also started noticing that dfDark and even sfDark reduces the effect. Having said that, I've seen a sfDark edged bird at a friend that I was sure was a female since it was very well marked. Turns out to be a male. And we haven't had young edged males that we kept back until these mauve birds, so I haven't seen the effect of aging on edged first hand either.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Ring0Neck wrote:Shey,

That's a DF SL Edged Cinnamon Blue male.

We get scalloping effect on:
DF Edged Cinnamon males
EF Edged Cinnamon hens


I think of edged as having two components- markings and dilution- so 'scalloping' falls under the markings category for me- I look at markings second to dilution.

I do not think we are talking of the same bird (but was from you originally)- certainly one was shown of your friend's that could be considered a df (until proven otherwise)- but that was different in that it's head remained undiluted while it's body clearly was- typically like every other df edged cock . The other who had me fooled -was nicely diluted (light) all over and a cock-not unlike my cock.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck »

Shey.

I would wait till all birds are finished moulting to see the real phenotype.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

Ring0Neck wrote:Shey.

I would wait till all birds are finished moulting to see the real phenotype.
as far as I know df cocks don't moult into their heads later- say like a CT. - I'm not dismissing the idea of the youngster being df- right now he doesn't fit into that model.. like I said before- I thought for sure he was a hen- until I saw updated pics of him and his ring forming.

- Johan- thanks- yes, will be interesting to see how your edged Mauve matures.--- if by chance you get any shots of his wing markings, could you post on them on here please :)?
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd »

update-

midway through first moult:

(sf SL Edged cock)

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Wildtype sire in the middle, Cinn SL Edged dam to the left & sf SL Edged youngster on the right

Image

will update with new pics after he finishes his moult.
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