Page 1 of 1

Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:33 pm
by Donovan
Instead of spamming the forum with new threads every time I have a new observation or question I figured I would just chronicle everything here in the story section.


So I got a lutino. At 14 weeks old he is still very much a baby. He is still trying to figure out how to hold stuff with his foot and makes lots of baby sounds.
He is absolutely -not- afraid of me. In fact he seems to have instantly adopted me as momma bird and at time seems desperate for me to have him step up.

When I fed him the first time he ate so much that I had to take his food away and he is willing to eat -anything-. So I plan to take this opportunity to indoctrinate him into loving only the highest quality foods.
I made him a little salad of romaine, cauliflower, bell pepper, radishes, green beans, carrot, and apple. He ate every bite.

Still though, he seems to be fixated on food. Is this a nervous response to his new environment or natural for his age?

I actually had him out of his cage while having his supper. After 5-10 minutes my other bird decided to go check things out. Neko was obviously uneasy about the other bird flying over but he just kept on eating. Mr Bell leaned in cautiously and neko snapped at him as if to say "hey, back off". A few minutes later mr bell is stealing the food right out of nekos mouth and just trying to touch him in general. So now poor little neko is getting mad and slinging food out of the bowl so I put neko back in his cage with his food.

Now, this brings two questions to mind.
1) is this normal bird interaction?
2) could this be setting the stage for neko to end up hating mr bell in the future?
It never occurred to me that being able to interact with my new bird would come for free and that he might have to learn how to accept another bird. He was so well socialized by for people that I wonder if he didn't learn to trust other birds.

I need to make sure that nekos interactions are positive and be careful to make sure he doesnt associate mr bell as being a thorn in his side, all the while doing the same for mr bell.
When neko is in his cage mr bell will go sit next to him sometimes. Neko appears a little nervous when this happens but is willing to touch beaks through the bars. This might be a better way to do things..

Oh and on a side note, mr bell has been a little irritable since I brought neko home. I want to give neko certain kinds of attention at his impressionable age but don't want mr bell feeling left out, so that part is a bit of a juggling act.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:36 pm
by Donovan
Today it occurs to me that foraging will be the law of the land for Neko. He doesn't seem interested in toys very much but he is showing a desire to forage. So I can take his fixation for food and make him work for it. So given that I will do some foraging research.
Mr Bell has never cared much for foraging. He'll do it a little but gives up pretty early. He'd rather take something apart or tear something up.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:16 pm
by MissK
Congratulations Papa Bird! I think allowing them to choose their level of closeness is best. Just what my gut says.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:45 am
by SkyeBerry
In addition to my IRN I also have a sun conure. I should add that they came from the same breeder and were only a couple days apart. They were the last of each clutch that were for sale - she kept a couple - so these two were put together. I was warned it likely would not last. It has been 4 years and they can still be put in the same cage - often choose to go in the same. They do not cuddle a lot but they are often near one another. There is some mutual grooming. The conure occasionally begs for food and sometimes the IRN attempts to feed her. I am sure Skye would attempt mating but the sun conure is not 'that' interested. The tease. :lol:

If one bird is eating something it is not unusual for the other to try and steal it - even from the others beak - but it has not led to any fighting. The same occasionally happens over toys. I have noticed that this year my IRN has become much more confident - he seems less dependent on the conure - maybe tired of being rejected? - and wants more of my attention. This translates to not automatically accepting the outside position on my shoulder. So far there has just been jostling and some squawking but I will definitely start to keep a closer eye on things as the dynamics are changing.

If you search google, you should be able to find articles on the pros and cons of being a multiple bird household as well as allowing their interaction. I think a lot is going to depend on the birds as well as you. It is my understanding that there is NO hierarchy with parrots. That each struggle over food or position is individual and that the same bird does not always win. When I feed the birds outside of their cages, if I am not hovering near-by, I just put out two stations about 4 feet apart. That way one bird can't eat at one and guard the other.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:54 pm
by Donovan
okay so I get home from work.. neko's bowl of food is completely empty (gave him a vegetable mix this morning).. there isn't much to be found in the bottom of the cage so i'm guessing he ate everything.. which is fine.... I have fed him again and he's tearing into it.. I gave him the same vegetable mix and he didn't act like he wanted that so i gave him some seed/cereal mix and that's going over pretty well...

he was bobbing his head a lot... ya know like those birds with psychological problems do in crappy pet shops?... his behavior seems strange to me, but again I will chalk it up to him being a baby.

------------

Alright.. a few hours later and the evening has been interesting. Neko has gotten skilled at making Mr Bell leave him alone.

Mr Bell decided to eat a collard green stalk .. because he stole it from Neko (he didn't want his own, he wanted neko's)

I let Neko stuff himself silly and he quit the head bobbing.. man he's a little piglet. Afterward I let him perch on my thumb and he seemed to enjoy my other fingers being laid over his back.. so I talked to him for a while and he cooed .. then went to his roosting spot in his cage and is now fading out.

Mr Bell is still having some attitude, but as soon as I put Neko away Mr Bell was ready to play ball on the desk.. so I guess he's not all that beat up about having a new bird around.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:23 pm
by MissK
Hey, check me on this, but I would think if the baby wants to eat his vegetables you should give him all he wants, right? He isn't going to get obese on collard stalks, that's for sure. And he's growing, right? Human kids eat a crap ton of food at certain stages. Right? I'm so not into babies, and I don't know what I'm talking about, but this is how it would seem to me.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:54 am
by Donovan
Checked his keel this morning ad per skyberry's suggestion. I'm not sure hoe it should feel. I can feel it. It doesnt show but I can feel it. I'm gonna take him to my local vet in a couple days and weigh him. He was 105g when I got him. By now he should be a tad more so we'll see.
Its not an avian vet but I just need him to be weighed so it should be fine. Can't afford a full blown avian checkup just yet. I'm sure he's fine and i'm just over analyzing.

Oh and missk I am leaning toward agreeing with you about just letting him eat as much as he wants. Last night he was a lot more choosey about what he ate and didnt finish everything. So again, i'm probably looking too much into nothing

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:42 am
by MissK
To weigh him at home you can get a kitchen scale that weighs in grams. Buy or make a perch that will fit on the scale. Place the perch on the scale and then turn the scale on, so it reports zero weight with the perch on it, Just add bird and read the weight.

If you need to make a little perch, take two little bits or blocks of wood and drill a hole through them Fit a dowel between them and you have a mini perch for the scale.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:54 pm
by AJPeter
Do you cage them when you got to work of let them fly in the aviary?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:12 pm
by Donovan
Neko was clipped when I got him so he probably won't get much aviary time this year. I asked them not to clip him but it was their policy so whatever.

Mr Bell is a bit stubborn about getting into the carry-cage right now. I'll probably make him start sleeping in it so I can take him outside in the mornings. But for now the morning is a bit too chilly compared to the inside of the house.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 12:33 pm
by AJPeter
What we might think of as chilly they would think it was freezing, please take care when moving them from one temperature zone to another to aclimatise them slowly, best to let stay in their cages if there is a big temp drop.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:59 pm
by SkyeBerry
Any dampness in the air always makes it colder as well. I was talking to someone who moved here from Norway. Her father raises lots of grass parakeets. She said they lose more birds in the rain versus the snow.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:54 pm
by Donovan
Poor little Neko.. they clipped his wings. I asked them not to but they claimed it was their standard policy. (he'll never be clipped again)
He was on top of his cage just now.. holding on to a ladder and flapping like crazy.. exercising I suppose... Once he was finished he decided to check to see if he could fly yet and took off... straight down and hit the skirt/seed catcher thing.

I hate seeing them unable to fly.. but trying so hard. I remember once Mr Bell was doing something.. and whatever he was messing with fell over and he tried to fly but couldn't.

Both Neko and Mr. Bell were clipped heavily... not even a partial clipping that at least lets them get a little air to slow down the fall or help them determine where they crash. No.. both were clipped so they flew like bricks. Mr. Bell's days of falling straight to the floor are long over but poor Neko has at least 6 months of busting his **** to look forward to.. I hope it doesn't take that long but that's how long it took Mr. Bell.

I remember the first time Mr. Bell flew. He went about 6 feet and landed where he wanted. So from there I worked with him by standing in a hallway and having him fly down it. He was on a one way ticket to the floor at the end of the hallway but it was an easy landing so no big deal. After only a day or two of that he figured out he could actually fly so he starting going up instead of just down. And he's been wide open ever since.

I wish I knew then what I know now. Mr Bell is a difficult bird in some ways. Neko will benefit from my current experience and knowledge that I have gained in the last two years since I got mr bell.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:46 pm
by InTheAir
Awww he sounds so sweet!
It seems to be fairly common for young birds to revert to begging behaviour when they move into a new house. Some people give them a little formula or mashed up food as a comfort feeding.
Of all the parrot stuff I've read, restricting food for young birds has never been a recommended course of action. Food restriction at sensitive times can be detrimental. I'd seek further advice on that from a professional if you feel you need to limit his food.
I haven't read much on the subject of internal parasites in parrots, our vet did administer a precautionary dewormer. I know other animals will show increased appetite and poor weight gain if they have them, so that might be worth looking into.

Bummer about his little wings! It'll be great when you've got 2 birds zooming around and landing on you at random.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:33 pm
by Donovan
I only slowed down his eating for the first 24 hours because I wasn't sure what was going on.

In any case he is eating a normal amount now .. which is to say he picks at it and then manages to save some for later.

He got his first shower today.. He went nuts for that.. he enjoyed a bottle sprayer and the shower.

Oh, and I sneezed this morning before I uncovered him.. and he went "Reeehh" from behind the cover. I thought that was funny.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:49 pm
by SkyeBerry
You sound completely smitten with Neko. Aren't you glad you did not let his colour get in the way of chosing him?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:48 pm
by Donovan
yellow wasn't my first choice but i wouldn't hold it against him. I'll be working with him to make sure he stays tame and learns fun little tricks.. he seems to enjoy physical contact like being petted so i'm going to make sure I do it every day so that he'll end up being a much better bird to handle (when need be) than mr bell is.

mr bell has grown uninterested in playing games lately.. except for peekaboo which is when he gets up on a tall lamp and hangs upside down around the rim when i stand where he can't see me...
but as far as playing fetch and other little games he seems to have lost interest.. like the high value treats aren't impressive enough to motivate him anymore... I think I can fix that with millet though

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:53 pm
by SkyeBerry
I recently read an article that stated that even when birds enjoy being handled when they are young it is not unusual that they enjoy it less as they get older. I believe it said many would still tolerate it and of course it depends on the individual bird.

Mr Bell may be feeling a little out of sorts for a while. I think some fresh millet from you and some one on one time would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:49 am
by Donovan
I am certainly not neglecting mr bell because of having a new bird.. so he is basically getting the same amount of one on one time he always has.. which is a few brief moments throughout the day and then about 10 minutes worth later in the evening.

anyway, so both birds are in the aviary today... Neko has to stay in the travel cage because he can't fly yet, but he's getting a little fresh air and he got about 30 minutes of sunlight until the sun moved over the shade tree. Gonna clean their cages real good while they're outside and do some other housework

I managed to get mr bell out there with him by getting him to sleep in the travel cage last night. He didn't appreciate it.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 1:27 pm
by AJPeter
When Billie was younger she enjoyed a lot of cuddling and neck scratching but now she is not keen on it the one thing she really enjoys is "Kiss Kiss" and she gets a kiss on top of her beak, never sure whether l will keep my nose intact but seems to enjoy it, holding her head up for the kiss. We often rub noses together.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:35 pm
by Donovan
mr bell likes rubbing noses also...

I have seen lots of videos of people touching and petting their IRNs.. so i know it's possible.

I am going to attempt to offer treats before and after each touching.. even though right now he doesn't require it... i want to implant the idea that touching is good... i just want to rub his face and head and be able to pick him up without him panicking like mr bell does

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 4:40 pm
by SkyeBerry
Donovan - I wasn't implying you were ignoring Mr. Bell, just saying he might not be too thrilled about having another bird around. I am sure he will adjust.

I am sure you could get both birds comfortable or at least accepting of touch. I just recently started working with Skye - who is now four - and I can touch his beak with my fingers now. Before I could not. He has been pushing his beak against my lips and rubbing my cheek for quite some time. I ask "can I touch your beak?" I also now ask "can I touch your toes?" I am hoping that his familiarity with " can I touch...?" and knowing nothing is done to hurt him and then he gets a treat will make it easier for him to accept more and more touching. I would like to be able to examine him, including wings, and also trimming his toes. Barbara Heidenreich has a free video you can watch showing her training a bird to allow toe trimming. It should be on youtube. There is nothing special about her technique and you likley would come up with the same concept.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 8:44 am
by Donovan
hhmm.. so Neko was just making a big fuss.. getting excited while playing with his toys and I think he actually started displaying to one of them.. is that possible at his age of only 3 months??

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 9:30 pm
by SkyeBerry
A lot of young animal 'play' is the beginning of practice for adult life in the real world. Chasing a ball is hunting instinct for example. Play 'fighting' develops skill for both defense and aggression - challenging pack leaders and a kill for food as wll as co-ordination and strength. I do not see why this would not apply to parrots. I would not think this was true 'hormonal' behaviour,' but I have limited baby experience.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:49 am
by Donovan
So I will be focusing now on somehow getting neko to like mr bell. Gonna try treats for any time I see him behaving nicely.

Also I know theyre willing to touch beaks through the bars but even this is starting to look bad.

What about putting their cages together and have a toy or piece of food running through the bars of each cage. Would this help them bond if they're both chewing up the same thing together? Would it frustrate them, or would it just reinforce the idea that they're separate? On the bright side they are having their supper out of cages and in near proximity. Maybe I should try using a larger bowl so they can share something more important

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:50 am
by sanjays mummi
In theory this sounds ok, but it begs the question what if Mr Bell takes the lions share, would Neko get enough to eat?.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:07 pm
by Donovan
sanjays mummi wrote:In theory this sounds ok, but it begs the question what if Mr Bell takes the lions share, would Neko get enough to eat?.

It's more likely that Neko will drive Mr.Bell away. There will be more than enough for both of them so no one's going hungry. I wonder if it might be better to bring neko to the bowl while mr bell is already eating. That way he doesnt feel like mr bell is coming after him. I might try it that way. Let neko watch for about 30 seconds.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:56 pm
by MissK
So, I had this idea to put a perch through both cages so the birds in different cages could sit on the same perch and feel each other's vibrations. I tried it, but the perch I used was too thick and got wedged so it didn't move. You inspire me to try again.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:07 pm
by SkyeBerry
Because you have years and years to look forward with these birds, I would be hesitant to push them together so much to make friends. I often has the reverse effect with kids and cat/dogs etc. With smaller birds, like lovebirds, that often do share cages, it is suggested that the two cages are put near each other but not close enough that the birds can reach through the bars and grab the others toes/beak. Place the food and water dishes so that the birds will be looking into the others cage when they are eating/drinking. When they start to eat and drink at the same time - mirror each others behaviour - you know they are beginning to accept each other as part of their flock.

I do not think I would put a toy in between the two cages. I would be concerned that they each claim 'ownership' and it becomes something to fight over.

I would provide the large feeding station outside the cages as you are already doing. I would set up a large foraging or play station if you have the room. When they are out together and interacting nicely I would offer the treats as well.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:57 pm
by Donovan
MissK you only have a single Ringneck yes?
But then you have the budgies... who are you trying to get to be friends??...
That's an interesting idea bout the mutual perch.. I will certainly look into that..

Skyeberry - When I have placed the two bird cages near each other while i'm at work they were still a couple inches apart from each other.. I like your point about the toy.. so I may just try a piece of food.. something long and narrow that can fit through bars of both cages.. so they can share it... plus it will possibly go along with MissK's idea of feeling vibrations.

They've been eating together. (about 18" apart) on top of the playstand of Neko's cage. Tonight I'm going to make a single bowl of food but large enough for both of them and try feeding them together... see how that goes...
I don't want to try to 'force' them to be friends.. i want to manipulate them into thinking it was their idea to be friends.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:33 pm
by MissK
That's right - one Ringneck, five Budgies :oops:, a Canary, and a Guest Canary. I actually wanted them to share a perch because they are not allowed to share a cage. Rocky is in love with one of the Budgies, but I am so mean and overprotective, I won't let them touch. :cry: I thought sharing a perch would allow them to feel closer to each other. Ironically, since my Albino Budgie has grown up and proved to be a male, Rocky's girlfriend is feeling a little bit fickle. But again :!: I am so mean, I even split up the male from female Budgies, since I don't want baby Budgies. So, again, I think they would like to share a perch and feel closer than they are allowed to get. I did see Rocky glueing his beak to the wall by the boy Budgie cage, so it is very possible he will select a new friend. :lol:

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:39 pm
by Donovan
Okay... we have progress...

i made a big salad (usually I eat whatever i don't put into their bowls)... anyway I gave them the whole thing in a large bowl tonight.. (i even put a little hot sauce on it.. that sounds awful but for a bird it might be awesome)

Anyway.. they fought at first.. then neither of them wanted to eat... so i took out one of the regular feeding bowls and put it next to the big bowl. Neko went for the small bowl.

Anyway I was watching and as he would pull pieces out he was actually handing (beaking) them to mr bell. A few days back when i first introduced them mr bell was stealing the food right from nekos mouth.. since then neko hasn't allowed that.. but tonight he wasn't only allowing mr bell to steal his food but he was stretching his neck out towards him and just giving him the bite of food....

Too bad they're not really hungry.. I think they filled up on millet earlier when I got home since i'm also trying to train them for different things.. (bell to accept the travel cage.. neko to keep him tame)

so... progress?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:45 pm
by MissK
Gosh that sounds cute. I dream of a day when Rocky gets to feed another Ringneck, not the bars in his cage. :cry:

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:54 am
by Donovan
Well for working on different things with both birds is going to be easy. Neko is an early bird and mr bell is a night owl.

Mr bell seems to want to be left alone until around 9pm. He's always gotten a second wind around that time. He's also not a morning person. In the morning when I uncover him he always just sits there for like a half hour without really moving, like he's just not ready to get up yet.

Neko on the other hand is ready to pass out by 8:30 or 9. And I can hear him playing with toys before I even uncover him. So for now he and mr bell are on different schedules. Which is great but I think neko will adapt to my schedule over time like mr bell did.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:45 pm
by AJPeter
[quote="MissK"]So, I had this idea to put a perch through both cages so the birds in different cages could sit on the same perch and feel each other's vibrations.

I think MissK is friends with Mick Jagger.

Do lions share?

I think Mr Bell will dominate Neko simply becasue he has been there the longest, but you are doing the right things Don

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:48 pm
by SkyeBerry
Donovan - you wrote 'Too bad they are not really hungry?" - it is too bad that they did not eat more after your work or perhaps more will be thrown away but its FANTASTIC how they interacted! Maybe not being so hungry is the key - if they are 'too' hungry (I know you aren't starving them), they may still feel a bit of a need to fight to ensure they are going to get their share and be well fed. If they are not so hungry, they can 'afford' to share as they know there is lots to eat - ie) the large salad.

MissK - I was a little lost regarding 'sharing of the perch' and 'vibrations' but I get it now. :lol: My male and female zebras and lovebirds get to be caged together. As long as I don't feed a lot of high fat seeds, egg food, and supply nesting material there are few eggs. Admittedly, the lovebirds are a little trickier but some of these females will lay eggs even if there is no male or nesting material. Poor budgies. :(

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:04 pm
by Donovan
Bird Food

Image

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:07 pm
by Donovan
SkyeBerry, That is a -wonderful- point, thanks :)

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:13 pm
by MissK
Mary- I understand. I have some wacky ideas sometimes. :lol: I do feel sorry for the birds all not getting to mingle as I know they want to do. I *did* go out and get a second female Budgie, though, just so little Riff would not have to be housed all alone. I hope they don't make eggs.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:28 pm
by SkyeBerry
MissK - it took me three years before I felt guilty enough to put the male and female zebras together. With lovebirds, you can't tell the sex unless you: have their DNA tested; they have a sex linked mutation (& I don't know them); a female lays an egg; or you only have two lovies and suddenly there are 6. For about eight years I was lucky - no eggs. Now I have one chronic egg layer that by rights should be having nutritional problems but is not - so I respect the food manufacturer. I also have two females that lay two clutches a year - which I can live with. None of the eggs are fertilized (at east that is what I tell myself) so I don't feel bad when I eventually throw them away. For the lovies, I let the females keep the eggs so they stop after 5-6 otherwise they will keep going. I toss the eggs when the female gives up on them or when they start feeling like they are deteriorating. I then cross my fingers they do not start over again.

Donovan - Sorry, for hi-jacking your thread, but I don't think this is going to go much further.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:40 pm
by Donovan
Skyeberry, feel free to chit chat. It's a good place for it. In the meantime i'll just keep posting neko stuff...
Speaking of which I hardly gave him any attention tonight other than that bowl of food and a brief couple of moments of exaggerated tones.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:37 pm
by MissK
Donovan~ I have my fork and I will travel. That bird food looks delicious!

Mary~ Maybe you should invest in some fake eggs..... I *do* feel like a big jerk, not letting the sexes mingle, but I don't want my little girls to be slaves to their biology. :o

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:28 pm
by AJPeter
Wow fancy mating Zebra's and Lovebirds no wonder Dodo's died out, That photo Donovan looks like my dinner or the dog's is this what Mr Bell and Zeko get to eat, don't let Billie see or she will want a willow plate as well.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:12 pm
by Donovan
Yes AJ .. that is what they've had for the last several nights.. they're starting to lose interest.. so i might change up the ratio a bit and see if that will help their appetite

it's romaine lettuce, cauliflower, broccoli, asparagus, a touch of rice and chicken, bell peppers, apple, squash, and alfalfa sprouts. It's actually pretty good with some salad dressing. I put a little italian dressing on it for the birds... my portion got a bit more because you couldn't really taste it in theirs. So I added a little hot sauce to theirs
______________________


I'm trying something today. I determined a mutual high value treat for them.. millet.
To preven Neko from chasing Mr. Bell away I was keeping him busy with millet.. with mr bell about 8 inches away from him.
I gauged how quickly they eat the food and gave them pieces the right size to both be finished at the same time. Then I held my hand open between them with all the pieces of millet in my palm. This kinda forced them to be much closer to each other.
My thinking is that it will implant the idea that good things happen when they're close together. Then maybe Neko will stop acting so offended by sharing a proximity with Mr. Bell and see his being around as a positive experience.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:25 pm
by Donovan
10 Minutes Later

While I was typing the last post, I saw a neat thing.
I had given Mr Bell some kind of nut out of a treat bag. I didn't hand it to him I just tossed it over for him. Well he didn't care. He just looked at it. He was too busy watching Neko rummage around with various items on the desk. Neko found the nut I tossed down for Mr Bell and picked it up. So now Mr. Bell wants nothing more than that nut and he starts chasing Neko around the Desk to get it.
Being young, awkward, and flightless Neko couldn't hang. He dropped the little prize and Mr. Bell got it and flew up to the next level with it.

He ate it on for a minute, then he flew down next to Neko, dropped it off half eaten, and then flew off across the room. I'm not sure if it was his intention to actually give the nut to Neko or if he just dropped it by accident, or if he was trying to throw it off the edge of the desk. Either way, Neko would take something like that as another positive experience. So.. good....

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:49 pm
by SkyeBerry
Donovan - well that is twice Mr. Bell seems to have given food to Neko. It will be interesting to see if the behaviour continues. I know of other birds that have 'adopted' a new bird as a baby even when the new bird was fully grown.

MissK - from about 25 zebras I get 2-3 eggs per year. Without a nest, mine will not continue to lay. re: the fake eggs - some birds seem to figure them out - wrong weight or texture I am not sure. A friend had no success with the fake eggs so she tried boiling and marking the eggs as they were laid. Her hen would always push the marked eggs out of the nest and replace them with new ones. So no dodo there! Maybe there is a scent??? hmm..but then how do other hens deposit their eggs and get another species to raise them?? Maybe it depends on the species? Society finches seem willing to raise just about anything.

my lovebirds: male and female pair - rehomed to me close to a year ago. They had a history of two clutches (5-6 eggs/clutch) a year. With changing up their environment etc they laid 4 eggs in the fall and no eggs this spring.

The above lovebirds came with one of their babies. Also was laying two clutches a year - no mate. She laid a clutch of 5 if the fall and currently has a clutch of two. I am hoping there will not be any more clutches at this point.

The lovebird I do worry about has had just about everything tried with her. Currently, using Harrison's Red Palm oil with raspberry leaves. Something in the leaves is supposed to safely interfere with egg production. My vet has suggested I remove her from the bird room and cage her. I would then move the cage around the house every few hours. I have been reluctant to take her away from her 'mate' however. I struggle with quality of life issues and mimicking as normal a life as possible. I do realize what my occur. My biggest concern is if she will produce a soft egg - that will be difficult to push out - prior to producing thin shelled eggs. It is an ongoing discussion with the vet but any suggestions are greatly welcome.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:25 am
by MissK
Mary~ you have my sympathies there! I am getting ready to bring home a female bird on purpose - I don't know, I must have lost my mind. That will make three in my house. I may need to start drinking to cope with the stress. :lol: She's a little Lineolated Parakeet, and you know me - that opens the door to a second female Lineolated Parakeet down the road. She has been housed with Budgies in her previous home, so I will see how my bunch feels about her and vice versa. I think I'm gonna call her... brace yourself.... Lynnie!

Donovan~ I am kinda jealous about your second Ringneck. :D

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:50 pm
by AJPeter
And l thought Zebra's had four legs.

MissK you could try Rose water for your stress, let me know if it does you any good.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 pm
by ranechild
MissK, Fats says "drink, drink, DRINK!!!"

I liked a bird breeders page on Facebook and now everyday i see pictures of baby IRNs. OMG, this morning picture of what must be 8 week old Albino and Blue IRN--- I wanted to scoop them up and listen to their little baby meows. awwwwwwwwwww. Good thing they are more than a hundred miles away from me.

there's also an extremely sute moustache parakeet on that page---must resist the urge!

its good your two seem to be interacting better than my IRN and quaker do :)

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:28 pm
by Donovan
This is an amazing picture.
I'm gonna repost it in the photo section of the forum


Image

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 10:18 pm
by MissK
Donovan~ yes, great photo! Just now coming along to wonder, ig you line up the cage doors to put your guys into the aviary, how do you get them out?

Ranechild~ HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Fats is the clever one.

AJ~ Watering roses always gets me pricked.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 4:50 am
by Donovan
Not quite sure what you mean about lining up cage doors MissK.
I walk in with a travel/transport cage which is Mr Bell's old home actually.

close the doors behind me, then release the birds.

That pic was a total fluke. I just wanted to get a pic of them since they were positioned close enough together to get one.

Well my cell phone takes like 2 seconds from the time you hit the button to the time the actual picture is taken. In that time Mr Bell couldn't handle me aiming the cell phone at him anymore and came after it. (he's very possessive of a cell phone) When he came after it poor Neko got startled and took a plunge. I didn't realize I had captured that moment so nicely for about an hour.

I figured it was just a ruined picture

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 5:17 am
by MissK
I thought you took Bell's regular old cage/new travel cage to the aviary and lined up the open doors for the bird to transfer. I guess I was thinking of somebody else..... I'm not very smart sometimes! :lol: Or maybe that was the old, pre-Neko way..... :?:

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 5:39 am
by Donovan
no.. I've always walked in with that cage in my hands. .. then closed the doors behind me, then opened the little cage to release.

Now that mr bell has a newer larger cage i had attempted to hold the old cage up to the new one to get him to go into it so i could take him out, but since they didn't match up perfectly he just went around the little cage and pretty much escaped into the house.

otherwise, yeah maybe you're thinking of someone else :P

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:56 pm
by AJPeter
Mr Bell looks a little harassed!

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:58 pm
by AJPeter
Mr Bell looks a little harassed!

This is strange after the photo l posted this but the photo has gone and left me with two posts sorry about that.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 3:21 pm
by Donovan
The photo is on page 1, so not gone.
I'm really proud of that pic, and yes mr bell couldnt take it anymore, he gets so jealous of my phone.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:12 am
by InTheAir
Great photo! What lucky boys you have! Sapphire is so jealous of their aviary, she wants one too!

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:05 pm
by Donovan
Just had a brief thunderstorm.. I covered the top of the aviary and let both birds ride it out.. Neko got a little damp, but Mr. Bell shows no signs. I figure because he could find a sweet spot to get away from the rain.
It lasted for about 15 minutes.

Neko takes a dive to the bottom sometimes so this morning I found a small poplar tree to put inside with them. It gives Neko a way to climb back up.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:21 pm
by AJPeter
Billie loves listening to the answer phone messages there are only two but she wants to listen to them every day also when l answer the phone she sits on my shoulder and likes to listen, sometimes she will sqwark juat to let them know she is there. Which l think is jolly decent of her/

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:31 pm
by Donovan
ever sing to your birds? I'll get to singing sometimes and mr bell will almost always come land on me and start doing the wings thing at me

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 1:43 pm
by AJPeter
I scream when she screams, l sing when she sings. Today she was singing as l played "Won't you come Bill Bailey!" so l joined in with the chorus.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:06 pm
by Donovan
Tonight's supper.. similar to the other pic that resembled a caesar salad... but this one has no romaine lettuce. Instead it has about 2 tablespoons of cooked oatmeal and a scrambled egg.

so..

1 scrambled egg
2 tablespoons of cooked oatmeal
apple shavings
broccoli
cauliflower
red pepper
light spices out of the cabinet

I gotta say this is better than I expected.. apparently oatmeal, egg, and apple goes nicely together.




Image

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:08 pm
by MissK
I sing (badly) Rocky Raccoon to Rocky sometimes. I think he likes it.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 1:05 pm
by AJPeter
Do you have the music to Rocky Raccoon MissK?

How many birds are you feeding Donovan?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 1:44 pm
by Donovan
just two.. there is lots of waste in feeding... i usually eat some of it too just so it doesn't go to waste...

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 8:31 pm
by MissK
I just scare it up on You Tube and sing along.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:15 pm
by Donovan
Don't do it MissK.. you'll always sound better in the car alone than you will on Youtube lol .. but if you do.. we'll check it out ;)

Moving on, i just scratched the back of my neck.. and a little fluffy bird feather turned up.... this is not a good sign.

and on yet another note. I'm seeing a pattern. The last two evenings when Neko put himself to bed.. Mr. Bell decided to go land on the outside perch to have a little fight. Not sure why he does this but it seems to be their thing so, whatever.
(I have an exterior perch setup right next to Neko's main spot so that Mr. Bell can go hang out with him when he wants.)
It goes on for about 20 seconds and they peck and bitch at each other through the bars then Mr. Bell leaves.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:10 pm
by MissK
You're safe Don - I do not expect to post myself ANY time soon.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:09 am
by Donovan
Speaking of singing mr bell loves that opera singing bird that speaks spanish. I don't know what kind of bird it is but its big and green, neko won't be exposed to that. Gonna try to make him a talker.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 7:44 am
by ranechild
I think that photo of the two in the aviary would make a very good rap album cover. It looks confident and violent. That's meant as a compliment

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:15 am
by Donovan
Neko is becoming such a bully to mr bell. He goes well out of his way to make him fly off unless he's occupied with eating.
Yesterday I recorded them for about 20 minutes. All they did the whole time was fight over a toy until they settled on separate ones.
In other cases neko will climb the play stand just to make mr bell fly away which is kinda funny because mr bell just flies to a different part of the cage and it takes neko a little while to get there since he can't fly yet.

Later i'll dig through the forum to see if there's anything about this type of bullying.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:31 pm
by AJPeter
It is called pecking order, and not much you can do Mr Bell will have to make a stand.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:49 am
by Donovan
Do I have a plucker?? I never noticed this until just now when he was wet

Image

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 1:21 pm
by MissK
1) HAHAHA! He's all WET! :lol:

2) Did Mr. Bell lose his patience when you were not looking?

3) How bad is it? Whatcha gonna do?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 1:54 pm
by Donovan
Yes he's all wet. He loves a shower and a spray bottle, but doesn't seem interested in wading around in bath water. This is the exact opposite of Mr. Bell.

I want him to start liking baths because I have a -huge- plastic pan for bird bathing. It's big enough that both birds could get in with their wings fully extending and never touch each other or the sides. It's about the size of a very small kitchen table.

Anyway... on the plucking, I haven't witnessed any plucking but I saw a spot on Neko's chest recently that was suspicious to me but it was very small so i decided to dismiss it. Then today after his shower I noticed the bare spot and new feather growth on his back and so now I'm concerned he's been plucking.

I suspect that he may have been plucking when I first got him because that bare spot shows signs of growth. Maybe he's over it. I really hope I don't have a plucker since pluckers aren't very attractive :)

But if I end up having to put a lamp shade over his head then so be it.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:50 pm
by AJPeter
Could Neko have got in a fight with Mr Bell and l lost? I have seen parrots, big ones pluck all their feathers except around the neck and head, they look ghastly. But it caused by a mite. If Neko starts to pluck get some anti pluck stuff and make date to see the vet.

I offered Billie a shaower today she stood on the make shift perch but as soon l turned the water on she changed her mind, some days are shower days and some days are not!

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 1:00 pm
by Donovan
Neko is happy to shower or be misted every day... Mr Bell wants a week at least between baths. He will shower sometimes but I think he has not had positive experiences in the shower.... which is my fault and his bad luck for being my first bird. He was starting to like showering again a few weeks ago until i got the idea to spray him with the mister. That didn't go over so well.

As far as the birds fighting, all I've seen is them bumping their beaks together and grunting about it.
Mr Bell wants badly to be friends with Neko. I don't think he would attack him. It's Neko that's causing the tension between them, and I suspect that may have something to do with him not being able to fly.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:01 am
by Donovan
I think Neko, being as young as he is, may be entering the bluffing stage. I'm not sure what age it happens, but for the last couple of days he's had an attitude and has even tried biting a couple of times.

Luckily he doesn't know how to bite and make it hurt so when he shows signs of not wanting to be messed with I just leave him alone. Hopefully he'll never learn how to use the can-opener like mr bell did.

So i'm not taking it as being bitten.. as much as i'm taking it as him communicating and saying 'i'm not in the mood'.. so.. okay...

On the flipside to that, he was wanting attention a little while ago and was letting me pet him while he made baby bird noises. I had him on my finger and he laid his head down on my hand and had his eyes closed while i was petting his head and neck. So he went from jerk mode to sweet mode.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:40 pm
by Donovan
ya know... You can prepare for a new bird all you want.. but once you realize they're doing their business all over a lower perch or in their water bowl.. you find yourself rearranging the cage.

In my case I had to take a perch and cut a few inches off of it so i could reposition it so he wasn't dropping all over it.... now things seem to be well. He has his one spot he stays in .. and now the food, water, and perches are all clear :)

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 4:32 pm
by Donovan
Today I was working with Neko when I came home from work.. I came home and found him quite hungry. This morning I put him a bunch of vegetables in his food bowl and when I came hom I found all or most of them on the bottom of the cage. I'm betting he did this early and didn't actually eat all day. So I used this as a bit of a training opportunity. First I gave him some free food to take the edge off, but this bird is perpetually hungry so I could still work with him afterward.

Anyway, even though he can't fly I'm teaching him to 'fly' to me when I call him. So anyway I usually just make him stretch out to have to step up on my finger in order to get his treat.. When he steps up I drop my hand down a bit so it makes him have to flap his wings.

Today he was so excited that he was jumping and flapping to get to me.... so i held my hand down a few inches and was making him take a leap of faith to get his treat. I held my hand about 6 inches down and about 6 inches out and he was doing it.. jumping and "flying" to me.

My concern is the fact that he knows he can't fly. I'm imagining that I'm building trust this way. Is it possible this will somehow reinforce any helpless feelings he might have while he's clipped?.. "being forced to jump to get food"? Could this actually have the opposite effect in the future and make him -not- want to fly to me?
Or could this make him really happy and confident to have a little successful flight that doesn't end in a thump

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:56 pm
by MissK
Donovan, you're such a nice guy. :D Don't overthink this flying thing. He's eager, he's having success, it's a good thing. Later on he will develop a new way of getting this done, like a little kid who doesn't need a stepstool to reach the shelf anymore.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 4:29 am
by Donovan
Mr Bell eating some seed and wishing i'd get that phone out of his face.
Neko checking out his reflection and wishing i'd take him back inside.
They're so mistreated.

Image

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:42 am
by MissK
SO sad, so very sad..... :D

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:49 pm
by Donovan
Birds know birds I suppose.

Last few nights Mr. Bell has chosen to go to Neko's cage and pick a fight through the bars. Neko has gotten to ignore him when he does it... therefore providing no form of reinforcement for this bad behavior.
Now, though, Mr. Bell is being a lot nicer .. Neko is responding by touching beaks through the cage bars. Apparently they like interacting that way. Outside of the cage they're both a couple of touch-me-nots

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 9:20 pm
by MissK
Soooooooooooooooooooooo, maybe Mr. Bell might know a little something about that boo-boo on Necko after all?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:50 pm
by Donovan
I have decided that Neko is officially going through his bluffing. He's had an attitude the last two days. Even when I hand feed him he seems to get angry about it. This means this is an extremely influential, and brief, time in his life. I need to research this immediately before I lose the ability to physically handle him for a lifetime.

I could be wrong. I need to research the age range of the bluffing

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:26 pm
by MissK
You're not going to lose the ability to handle him for a lifetime. Even if you had to go back to square one, remember they can learn, they can change. Do your research. Let me know how it ends.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 1:51 pm
by Donovan
Today I have both birds outside. At this point it's late afternoon and they've been outside for probably 7 hours now.

Every few minutes I have to look outside to check on Neko and make sure he hasn't fallen down. I still need to rig up something to help him climb back to the top when he decides to try to fly.

Anyway I just checked on them again and I see Mr. Bell just inches from Nekos face.. displaying and regurgitating for him. (or pretending to).And Neko is letting him do it.

This is huge progress for these birds as Neko has always been in the habit of chasing Mr. Bell away. Over the last few days I've seen more subtle reactions out of Neko when Mr. Bell gets too close. And today I'm seeing full blown tolerance.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:00 pm
by Donovan
Ever had an animal that knew Left from Right?

My dad's dog wants to cradle in your left arm against you.. but not your right..

and Neko seems to enjoy being touched on the right side of his face and neck... but not his left.

weird stuff but it is somehow what they learned.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 4:20 pm
by MissK
I used to have my bed pushed against the left wall of my bedroom. Since then I've gotten a larger bed and moved it to the center of the room. The dog still will only approach to jump up when I call her from the right side of the bed, the only side that was available when it was pushed against the wall. Even if she is on the left and I pat the bed and invite her up, she has to go all the way around and jump up on the other side. :lol: The other dog has no such hangups.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 4:41 pm
by Donovan
btw... the plucking i was worried about seems to have disappeared... the raw spots on Neko's chest and back are growing back with no further signs of interference

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:37 pm
by MissK
That's a relief. Keep eyes open for a repeat.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:53 pm
by Donovan
Neko has blood up towards the base of his tail feathers tonight. When i spotted it it was still wet but not really bleeding... honestly i'm not that concerned about it, but I'm wondering what caused it.

Could preening (or even plucking) cause it?.. or could it be a broken blood feather? I have no knowledge of things like that

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:31 pm
by MissK
Don, I would be freaking out if my bird was bloodied twice from unknown causes. Glad you're keeping your cool. But let's round up the suspects, shall we?

Individuals known to possess a weapon are Mr. Bell and Neko, himself. Could there be an irritant on Neko that he is trying to resolve? A pest or the lingering discomfort of a pest no longer present? Could Mr. Bell be protecting one of his possessions when you're not looking?

Who else has a weapon and opportunity? What creatures can access your birds while they are in the aviary? Or the home? Cats? Raccoons? Snakes? Rodents? Others? Remember that a wild animal doesn't have to be inside the aviary to cause harm - my mom's old Canary can attest to that. He lost his whole tail to a raccoon when she left him caged on the porch past twilight. If there is a predator on the outside who can reach in, or the bird is unaware near the cage wall - it could happen.

How else can a bird be punctured, maybe passively? Is there any rough or sharp spot he could have connected with? Could he have fallen or just landed awkwardly on something, even a toy? How about stubby little broken branches? Part of the cage that's not quite 100%? Something in the cage that you didn't realize was broken?

Did you locate the exact source of the bleeding this time?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:44 pm
by Donovan
This is the first time he's been bloody ... what I posted before was a picture of some missing feathers that i spotted while he was wet. I checked those recently and they seem to be growing back.

I left my phone at work by accident so i wasn't able to get a picture. I don't have a camera otherwise.
But it was at the base of his tail and it was a few drops that even ran down a little. By the time i saw it it was already drying up which is why it didn't really concern me.

I spent a fair amount of time with both birds together this evening. It happened while i was right here but i have no idea what caused it. It didn't seem to bother him but i'm sure he felt it. Only thing I can think is that he took a spill.. once again thinking he can fly. Really pisses me off that they clipped his wings so severely. He can hardly even slow down on his way to the floor. If you're going to clip a bird's wings leave them -some- ability to control where they land at least.

So I just wondered if he hit his tail feathers pretty hard. Otherwise I have no clue. My dad used to keep birds and tells me he has seen them draw blood while preening.. so.. i just don't know..

And i'm still concerned he may be a plucker but i don't have strong evidence that it's something he plans to continue doing.

so.. I just don't know

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:04 pm
by MissK
Well, as always I wish the best. That first picture must look worse than it was in person - it looks like a sore wound to me, at the very least subcutaneous bleeding. It's also possible that when Neko started bleeding more recently he knocked open something already done. Not trying to promote trouble, just trying to cover every explanation.

For some reason I hesitate to endorse a plucker theory. I have no rationale, since I am far from a plucking expert. Is he losing any feathers?

I'm going to email SkyesCrew on this; maybe she will look in and have an opinion............

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:46 am
by MissK
Here's what SkyesCrew contributed:

Tell Donovan he does not have a plucker. Most likely if the bird was DNA'd the person took the feathers from the chest. Second, the blood up near the base of the tail. If he tried to fly and landed with his tail tucked, he could have broken something. That warrants a trip to the vet. A broken tail bone in a bird is not something to play around with. Ask him if the tail is ever up or if it's always pointed down. Ask if he has range of motion or if it's always limp.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:57 am
by Donovan
The tail bone didn't seem damaged. I didn't notice any awkward posture. But i'll check that out more tonight when I get home.

This morning he seemed fine and even seemed fine all evening last night around the time the blood appeared.

He was surgically sexed. The picture I posted is of his upper back, prime preening / plucking spot. There was also some feather damage on his chest that seems to have occurred around the same time that pic of his back was taken.

I don't believe he's a plucker but he may have dabbled with it.
The blood was a mystery. I looked this morning and it looked good. But now that I think about it, I thought I saw blood there once before but dismissed it because it was hardly there. Maybe he has an old scratch back there that he won't let heal.

like, knocking off a scab and having a little blood pool up from it.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:19 pm
by Donovan
okay.. now i'm home.. i have inspected Nekos tail. The blood from last night is gone except for a tiny spot that stained..

I moved his feathers around and found at least one tail feather that is red with blood in the sheath... it's not bleeding... so.. i'm not gonna worry about it.

I know this is damage from his inability to fly or even create enough wind to at least control his crashes. I suspect he hit his tail on the seed skirt around the cage and bent a feather in a bad way. Imagine bending a fingernail back.

anyway.. he's cage bound for the next few days. Since he likes to check to see if he can fly yet.. I'll have to keep him locked up for a while and really limit his freedom until he can at least slow himself down on his way to the floor.

On the bright side he's spending more time with his vegetables this evening since he has nothing else to do

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:39 pm
by Donovan
Okay so today Neko's damaged feather fell out.. it looked rough but he's no worse for it.

and on a side note he's in full IRN mode today and being completely annoying like a 3yo toddler.. getting into everything and constantly having to be corrected.

Also I never realized it until now but I actually successfully trained Mr. Bell to do his business away from my desk and away from my shoulder.
Neko keeps dropping right on my desk. Mr Bell always flies away to do it. And yesterday after I had a shower Mr. Bell landed on my shoulder and was playing in my hair.. Abruptly he flew away... pooped,.. then came back... I thought that was pretty awesome, plus I appreciated it lol

I guess I should pay more attention to Neko and encourage him to poop in other places.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:29 pm
by Donovan
Neko's Aggression:

When given the opportunity Neko will shoo Mr. Bell away by advancing in an aggressive manner.

When I am there for it I will intercept Neko and put my finger under his chest (making him step up). This allows Mr. Bell to do his thing without Neko making him leave.

I see this as a form of negative reinforcement for Neko because sometimes he wants to Be in that spot or play with that toy or eat from that bowl, and I am doing a sort of time-out.

Can we think of any reason why this is bad?
and if so can we think of an alternative?

I can

I have noticed that Neko will stop advancing on Mr. Bell as long as he has something in his foot like a toy or a piece of food. I don't want to keep shoving food and toys in his face to keep him from shooing Mr. Bell away because I'm concerned that he'll see it as a positive reinforcement.
Shoo Mr. Bell away = get a treat

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:46 pm
by Donovan
Poor Neko.. he's taken so many spills from trying to fly that he has like 3 tail feathers left.. two of which are bent.

I found one in the floor today and at its base it had what seemed to be a smaller feather growing in. I do suspect he's undergoing a small first molt.

Unfortunately i've had trouble finding -when- the first molt occurs. I know the information is on the forum but the search function could use a little reworking :P

okay, So -when- does the first molt (moult) occur?

----------------

On a side note, despite the perpetual tension between my birds, ... given the opportunity Mr. Bell will put himself to bed on an external perch on Neko's cage and they'll sleep shoulder to shoulder. This is rare but once in a blue moon I do actually get out of the house and come home very late, and every time I do, I find Mr. Bell on that outside perch right next to Neko, only the cage bars separating them.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:03 pm
by MissK
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww! :P

We're having an "aawwwwww" moment tonight as well. Sinbad, so scared of everything, finally eating his peanut and making a little noise like a crying dog with a Ringneck accent. My heart really goes out to him, poor little bugger.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:12 pm
by Donovan
ugh, poor Neko... I come home from work, let him out of his cage... leave the room for 30 minutes to have a beer and relax.. ..
I come back and both birds are on the floor.
Mr. Bell has managed to access the treat bag and it is scattered everywhere(x3)..
and neko is down there too with a bloody tail feather again.

So .. that does it.. no more unsupervised excursions for Neko until he can fly.
I watched him the other day when he took a leap of faith. He lands right on his rear.. like .. he tries to. His tail feathers are so beat up right now and I guess he's going through a molt.

I am not sure when they have their first molt though.

Neko is now 5 months old.. could he be molting right now?..

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:59 pm
by Donovan
They don't think I'm watching, but mr bell is regurgitating for neko tonight and neko is accepting it

9 times out of 10 neko makes him go away.. or mr bell goes to this spot to pick a fight, but tonight they're okay

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:15 pm
by MissK
You think he's taking care of the baby or expressing his love? I'm a little bit interested in that because Rocky has his regurgitation hobby and I wonder if *one day* he might share it with Sinbad instead of the cage walls and floor.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:21 am
by Donovan
well sometimes mr bell might sit in front of a mirror regurgitating (or doing the gesture), It's usually right before bed time he finds something to show his favor to.
I don't know his motivations. But I don't believe he was doing it because Neko is young. He was doing it as a matter of routine. He usually goes to his favorite mirror but this time he didn't. Maybe he tries all the time and neko chases him off... i don't know.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:21 am
by MissK
(nodding) Huh. Let me know if you have any further insights. This is an interesting topic for me, of necessity.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:51 am
by Donovan
i'm sure as neko gets older and especially when he starts getting hormonal that he'll be more receptive to he and mr bell feeding each other.

what does rocky regurgitate for?.. his reflection?.. for you?.. for his little budgie girlfriend?..

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:38 pm
by InTheAir
I think mine had their little moult at about 6 months old.
Does Neko have a really bad clip? I haven't had a clipped bird, but I was under the impression that a "good" clip allows the bird to glide downwards safely. Reading this thread makes me even more anti-clipping! Get him imped with mr bells old flights! That'd look pretty funky.

I think I read a thread in the breeders section that had references to "Bromances" in aviary birds. It was quite a while ago, so I can't remember which thread.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:29 pm
by Donovan
I have no interest in breeding birds. I had considered it briefly but then I didn't like the idea that probably 80% of them would go to inappropriate homes. I don't want to contribute to that sort of thing.

So I got another male .. and with that they'll just have to have a bromance lol.. (what a term!).

Neko drops like a rock when he tries to fly. I watched him one day. He has a tendency to land with his tail feathers pointed down so it's no surprise he's having the issues he's having.

As such his freedom has now been severely restricted. No more unrestricted time outside the cage.
Before I bought him I noticed a facebook post from that breeder that showed he and all his brothers (5 lutinos in the clutch, all male) had taken their first flights and would now be clipped.

Weeks later when I went to go finish purchasing him they took him into a little side room and clipped his toenails and did more clipping on his wings. I was distracted at the time and when I realized what they were doing I asked that they not do it. The lady said he'd already been fully clipped previously and was just evening up the wings. Either way I didn't like it.

The people are very professional and know birds very well. They just have a different philosophy. They didn't appreciate knowing that I had a fully flighted bird and warned strongly against it.

Not to worry though. He will never again have his nails or wings clipped.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:32 pm
by Donovan
oh, funny story... sorta...

When mr bell was still very young and couldn't fly yet (he was also clipped when i bought him) he jumped/flew away from me and landed on my dog's back. This didn't go over well with the dog and she was trotting around the living room with her tail tucked trying to get away from mr bell who was riding on her back.

It was funny to see, but i'm sure it wasn't very funny to the animals.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:14 pm
by InTheAir
Bromances and man-dates are all the rage in aus, though it is used in reference to guys who are friends hanging out, not dating.

That's very nice of you to say the breeder was very professional, I'm afraid I'm not convinced. Irns shouldn't fly like a rock and they certainly shouldn't be hurting themselves as a consequence of a clip.

I often look over the breeding threads to find more info on behaviour. I like to learn about natural behaviour and habits of a species. I think that the more I know about them, the more I can adjust my bird keeping to suit them. I have even read quite a lot about raising babies, even though I hope to never do it!

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:56 pm
by MissK
1) Rocky seems to regurgitate to whatever is there, though never to me or his mirror. He largely ignores the mirror, really. He will put it on a toy, on a rope, on cage wire (side or grate), on vegetables, on pellets, inside beads, on the seashell...... He will eat a nut and then hang the shell up on the side of the cage and feed it. He's very resourceful!

I strongly hope one day he will stop regurgitating but, failing that, that he will do it only for Sinbad, and that Sinbad will be fine with that. I don't know the odds of that hope seeing reality, but it's all I've got.

2) It strikes me as possible that Neko is landing on his tail because he may be using it to (try to) brake on the way down. It makes me a little upset, to think of poor Neko doing the bird equivalent of standing on the brake pedal while the car continues to move forward and crash. :cry:

3) Nothing should fly like a rock except an actual rock, and maybe that one guy I hate. Oh, and that other guy I hate. Just them. And rocks. Not animals.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:24 pm
by Donovan
Does Rocky regurgitate and make a mess with it?..

Mr Bell generally keeps his lunch to himself. I haven't seen his regurgitation gestures as a problem. Maybe i successfully discouraged it. There were times when I was giving him attention and then abruptly stopped giving attention when he'd start doing the neck thing. So I guess it was sort of like negative reinforcement.

And yes, Neko is landing on his tail because he's trying so hard to slow down. I've watched it. He's definitely standing on the brakes.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:50 pm
by InTheAir
Negative punishment = removing reward to decrease the likelihood of behavior being repeated

There's a little quadrant diagram on this page that I find helpful for not confusing my +s and -s. http://k9coach.blog.com/2012/12/02/apdt ... -part-two/

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:42 pm
by MissK
A mess. Why yes; yes he does!

Poor little Neko. I'm starting to want the person who clipped him to fly like a rock. I'm just not very nice, I guess!

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:41 pm
by Donovan
alright..

Neko's cage is a little bigger than mr bell's. I'm kinda interested in possibly moving mr bell into nekos cage. He goes in there sometimes anyway.. to steal food or look out the window.

When I close the door on him he gets upset shortly afterward and wants out. Can we think of any way to merge these guys into one cage?... smoothly...
I am considering putting mr bell to bed in neko's cage instead of his own. I wonder if that in itself might make things a little simpler.. to sleep and wake up together. But i'm not sure that's a good idea.
I mean.. i could -just do it- and force them together and i'm sure they'd adapt well enough inside of a week. But i'd rather do it without upsetting mr bell too much.

do we have any ideas?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:21 pm
by MissK
Any reason this cannot come back to good old fashioned bribery? Treat that good ol' boy!

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:20 pm
by Donovan
treats are plentiful inside neko's cage.. he seems to prefer going there to eat seed and pellets over his own cage.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:55 am
by Donovan
Well Neko is really growing up. He is getting to where he no longer wants to be petted. He lets me, but as i'm reaching for him he gets a little attitude and makes a specific grumbling sound. Once I start petting him he gets into it, but usually I will back off if he protests in any way. It's interesting tho because when he's in the right mood I can tell he wants to be touched by the way he will squint his eyes.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:14 am
by Donovan
This morning Mr. Bell is outside in the big cage and Neko is inside still. I have confirmed that they're still talking to each other through 2 walls and about a hundred feet between them.

They were both screeching. I looked outside and see Mr. Bell pacing back and forth until he hears neko screeching from inside the house, then he stops and perks up to listen and returns the call. I can barely hear mr bell from inside but i'm guessing the birds hear each other just fine and are calling to each other

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:36 pm
by Donovan
So.. about 7 hours later..

both birds have been outside for a while now.. it's pretty hot today. The air is stagnant and thick with humidity and it's just miserable out there... about 95 degrees (35c) (they have access to shade)

So I turned the garden hose on.. with a mist nozzle set up to mist the cage.. well low and behold mr bell is finally interested in taking a shower :P..
He flew around trying to get away from the water at first but when he saw neko shaking around and bathing he decided it was a good idea for him to do it too..

Since then I've turn the water on for 5-10 minutes each hour and each time i've done it mr bell has made a point to get in the mist.

This is good since he has gone weeks without bathing. Like he was on bath strike or something for a while. Neko on the other hand never misses an opportunity for a bath.

In the meantime I'm enjoying having them outside and not breathing down my neck all day :D .. the outside cage is like... a babysitter

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:28 pm
by Donovan
Boring and pretty well uneventful but why not
the garden hose misting


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43UkCdLfzKA



nozzle on bottom left

Image

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:52 pm
by Donovan
So I created this thread so I could spam the forum in just one little thread .. so now my 4th or so post in here today...

I was just getting ready to bring the birds in from outside... From across the yard I told Neko to turn around.. and he did it lol.... a full 360...
I didn't think he'd do it without a treat present but he did and well I felt like a jerk for not giving him anything..

anyway.. i thought it was really cool that he understood .. out of context

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:48 pm
by MissK
I really enjoyed reading about their adventures today.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:48 am
by InTheAir
That aviary looks like heaven! It's the middle of winter here and a little cold. Our guys had bathtubs, but haven't been using them and I've been away so they haven't had a shower for a few days (my boyfriends work hours don't suit winter bathing, they sleep on the perch while he showers). They went mental when I took them into the bathroom! Sapphire found that she could hang from the door and rub herself on the glass to catch the spray when it is my turn for the water.
It makes me wonder how they would cope in the wild, it hasn't rained here for over a week.

Ps. my shower was horrible, Sapphire had chilli juice on her face and shook it off into my eye (again) and the ambient temperature was about 17 degrees Celsius in our house, so the cold shower was most unpleasant!

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:05 pm
by Donovan
The youtube link is a crappy quality 50something second view inside the cage while the garden hose was raining on them.

Fairly boring but I enjoy watching them shower.
Mr bell flies to the dry side. Poor neko can only climb then has trouble getting around the frame of the cage.

Since then i've installed handicap railing at each of those points in the cage.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:25 pm
by Donovan
Ya know, I gotta say, the little effort I took to "potty" train Mr. Bell was far more effective than I realized until I got Neko

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:06 pm
by Donovan
for the love of god.. these birds are like little vultures.

I sit down with a burger and next thing I know i have a bird crawling up my arm towards my hand with his beak wide open and the other on my head leaning over in my face going, "what about me?"

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:31 pm
by Donovan
This weekend's aviary shower..... very very hot outside.. both of them very glad I turned the water on.
(this cage is not as cluttered with perches as it looks in a picture :P )

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:40 pm
by Donovan
InTheAir wrote:When Nila went through a little phase of not wanting to be in his cage, my boyfriend and I realised we had to make his cage a treat (our guys are out of their cages most of the day every day). He loves foraging, so we would set a heap of toys and puzzles up and show him they were there and he'd go straight in to play. We left the doors open, so he knew he could leave if he wanted to.
Last night I had an issue getting Mr. Bell to go to bed... to the point I gave up and just went to bed myself. This means he was loose all day while I was at work. So I'm getting the idea again that I need to work on his desire to go into his cage at night.
Sometimes he's willing, other times he's not.

When he's not willing I just turn all the lights out, get him on my finger and put him in his cage. Last night he decided that he knows what i'm up to and come hell or high water he would -not- be locked up.

So I'm gonna have to make his cage into the most awesome place in the world.

Neko spends little time out of his cage. He -likes- being in his cage. I let him out, he gets on top and eats.. plays with a couple of foot toys, then goes back into his cage when he gets bored. Mr. Bell's behavior issues are a direct result of my lack of knowledge when I got him. There is a mix of bad experiences and being spoiled when it comes to being put away into his cage.

Neko's experiences are far different and this is probably why he's completely willing to go back into his cage.. i've taken different approaches to each bird....
Anyway... it's frustrating that mr. bell won't cooperate... it's also frustrating that i do know and understand what i need to do to properly condition him but i don't want to spend what little free time i have doing that. Weekend mornings are great for me.. work day evenings are not... So this is gonna take a while.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:41 am
by Donovan
Holding Nekos beak with my thumb and finger is like rocking a baby.. it puts him to sleep.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:08 pm
by Donovan
turns out cats and birds are a good mix after all.

Last night my cat spent the night inside. I woke up about 4am to him playing and making a ruckus.
Turned out he was after a mouse that was underneath Neko's cage.

I hate to think how long that mouse has been eating stray bits of bird seed.. ugh... anyway the cat cornered the mouse but couldn't get to it. I moved something out of the way and it was just sitting there all freaked out and scared to move. I put a towel over it... caught it.. and took it for a long walk outside. No I didn't kill it. He had a nick on top of his head and another one on his leg but he seemed okay so i let him go far away from the house. I walked him out into an open field next to my house.. with lots of food sources between there and my house.

So.. the birds being so messy with little bits of food surrounding the cage area drew in a mouse.. and the cat caught on and did something about it... good stuff, and assuming the mouse didn't have any life threatening injuries got off pretty dang lucky.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:54 pm
by MissK
Once upon a time I used to hunt mice in my mother's kitchen with my old stray tom cat. He was well fed and a bit lazy about the hunt. He would see the mouse and watch it go, but not chase. I would bring the cat in range and expose the mouse. All I would see then was the cat seeing the mouse and then the cat pointing the other way with the mouse in his mouth - nothing in between. He was fast and he was deadly, just rather lazy about getting to that point. I miss him.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:37 am
by Donovan
found a fun new feature on my phone which allows me to capture more in-flight pics so don't be surprised if i spam this neko thread with flight pics for a while :P

Image

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:39 am
by Donovan
Just need an actual digital camera.. high speed and high def.. that picture would have been fully in focus with the right camera

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:46 am
by InTheAir
It's still cool pic! My mum gave us her old high quality digital camera and even I can take good photos now. It's amazing!

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:38 pm
by MissK
I concur; it's still a cool pic!

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:58 pm
by Donovan
So,.. does your bird ever get too excited about something and just bite the **** out of you for it?

Mr. Bell just peeled my finger back while i was playing with him. I don't think he was being aggressive.. just got too excited..... in any case it was game over.

I'm not sure if that's the right lesson to teach... (bite hard at the end of the game)

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:12 pm
by MissK
I would think it might be par for the course - they do get excited and really nail the toys from time to time. No actual data from our house, though, just conjecture.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:12 am
by Melika
Thanks for sharing all your experienced and pictures. I agree, this is a good way to do it!

Do they live in the aviary? -curious-

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:42 am
by Donovan
They live inside and go to the aviary on the weekends while i'm home.

One bird can't fly yet so I like to be around when he's outside. He has to climb everywhere still so I check on him every few minutes

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:57 am
by AJPeter
The secret way not to get bitten is to keep your fingers out of their beaks.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:31 pm
by Donovan
LOL I'm such a jerk, sorta..

Neko being so young still the only thing i've really taught him is to turn around for a treat...

I got a laugh out of him just now... I gave him a piece of chicken and right after I gave it to him I told him to turn around... hahah.. and he did... treat came before the deed...

I guess we have the honor system going on.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:03 am
by Donovan
Well Neko made his opinion of the Aviary very clear to me just now.

Since he can't fly yet i'm able to take him out on my finger. Well this time about half way from the house to the cage he realized where he was going.. he zeroed in on the cage.. leaned forward real far, held on tight with his feet and started flapping like hell.

When we got close enough he tried to fly the rest of the way, but of course he just fell (poor guy i wish they hadn't clipped his wings). He was really excited to go out.

-----------

I also started teaching him to play fetch today. He's a really quick learner. All we've done though is let him take the ball and drop it. I kept catching it every time so i decided to miss it a few times on purpose so he'd get the concept of "no treat if it doesn't go to my hand"

The sad part about this is I had to leave mr bell outside by himself for about an hour while i played with Neko haha.


Oh!.. haha.. yeah, and when I took him outside a humming bird came and checked him out. I guess because he's so bright yellow.. it only lasted a couple of seconds but it buzzed down and hovered about 3ft away.. looked at us and left.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:01 pm
by MissK
Sounds nice, :)

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:46 am
by AJPeter
Some of the people around here hum a bit

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:30 am
by Donovan
AJ... it turns out you're right about keeping your finger out of their beaks.. that really does the trick on avoiding being bitten....

In today's Neko news, he has started doing the signature IRN heart wings when i talk to him... thought that was neat.. he's 7 and a half months old now... he's starting to cluck when I talk to him also...

I say, "Helloooo I'm Neko!... Yeah!!" .. he always clucks alot after the word Hello.. and does the wings after "yeah"

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:51 pm
by AJPeter
Actually l am half left.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:12 pm
by Donovan
Mr Bell has been living in Neko's cage for about two weeks. He has always given me a hard time about being put away at night (sometimes he cooperates and sometimes he doesn't)

Recently he went into Neko's cage around bedtime and found a perch and tried to play invisible. So I went along with it and shut the cage, covered it up and turned out lights. The next morning they didn't seem to appreciate being so close to each other but the cage is big enough that they managed to maintain their own personal bubbles.

Feeding is tricky.. Nekos main perch puts him over one of the potential food dish locations .. so of course that dish is never in there. The cage has 3 food areas. So.. in the evenings when it's supper time I put that one dish back and fill them both up .. the third is for water of course. Then I have to take the dish out.. and before i go to bed I fill it up with seed or pellets, or I might just drop some peppers down into it for them to eat in the morning.

Anyway... I like the prospect of moving them in together because I could eventually take Mr. Bell's cage down and reclaim a little real estate. But I'm waiting to see if Mr. Bell decides to change up his routine.. in any case, since he's been going to Neko's cage at night he no longer gives me a hard time about being put away.

The biggest issue i'm really having with this is that if I know that I'd like them to spend the day outside I always like to put Mr Bell to bed in the small cage so i can carry it out in the morning. Now if he realizes i'm trying to put him in that cage he just flies away and slips into Neko's cage and perches and gives me this "you can't see me" look.

Neko isn't as impressed with it all as Mr. Bell is but he's getting used to it. The worst part is that sometimes Neko is a bully and if Mr. Bell is doing something he doesn't want him to do then he'll go out of his way to work his way to the other side of the cage to be a jerk to Mr. Bell.
---------------

Moving on....

Neko is starting to chatter a lot. He has his normal sort of clucking sounds but then he starts whistling and it's very very quiet.. it's kinda neat but i'm starting to recognize some of the whistling as noises that Mr. Bell makes, or at least it's very similar, so that tells me he's starting to mimic. I've been saying some things to him pretty frequently.. hoping he might talk eventually but I have a feeling he's just going to make bird noises ...
Mr. Bell spoke a few times but then decided he didn't like doing it so i haven't heard anything out of him in months.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:28 pm
by Donovan
Birds went outside today for the first time in probably a month. (this is mostly due to Mr. Bell's reluctance to enter the carry cage)

I took Neko out there on my finger instead of in a cage since he can't fly away yet. He was so excited to be going outside he went nuts. As soon as i went outside he started squawking and flapping and zeroing in on the cage, then he tried to fly to it which all he can do is fall haha. So I scooped him up and he's still going at it, and then jumped again.

I'm glad he likes going out because Mr. Bell acts like it's a punishment.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:00 pm
by Donovan
You know those Halls cough drops?..

Well I just found one on the floor. Mr. Bell being the obvious culprit.

the great part was that the wrapper was slightly shredded and only a small bit of the cough drop itself was exposed. This tells me that he had fun tearing open the wrapper until he got a taste of the cough drop, then decided to ditch it haha..

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:18 pm
by Donovan
Well neko got his butt kicked by mr bell last night.

I think mr bell is being hormonal right now while the season is changing.

I gave him my old keyboard last night and he was having fun finally being allowed to destroy it. He got possessive to the point of aggression over it. Well neko decided to check out the keyboard and mr bell came flying from across the room, landed on neko's back one foot on the back of his head and started biting at him. I was right there so i put a stop to it right away.

They've been living in the same cage for a month or two now but today i figured it best to separate them so i didn't come home to a dead bird.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:36 pm
by MissK
Wow, that's fairly exciting!

Do you think Bell's got "Special Feelings" for that keyboard?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:45 pm
by Donovan
Not the keyboard, no, his shadow and reflection, yes haha.

I've decided not to interact with him much for now.

And on a side note neko's flight feathers are coming in nicely (and suddenly).
I've been encouraging him to flap more to work his muscles and help increase lung capacity

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:10 pm
by MissK
Why not interact with Mr. Bell? Are you mad at him? Don't be. He's just a little birdie and he has to do what his birdiness tells him to do. You should behave, whatever the reason, normally to him.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:18 pm
by Donovan
Oh I am which is pretty simple... I don't play with him as much as I used to anyway so if i don't talk to him a bunch it shouldn't be a big deal to him...

while he's being hormonal i don't want to be too friendly. birds get the wrong ideas sometimes lol

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:50 am
by AJPeter
Forth coming announcement Donovan and Mr Bell in Nuptial bed, it is not only birds that get the wrong end of the stick.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:10 pm
by Donovan
thanks AJ
:P

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:27 am
by Donovan
Well Neko just took his first flight in 8 months or so.

He flew half way across the yard to the walk-in cage outside.

So, that's the last time he gets to go outside without being in a cage. He wasn't flying very well, but he definitely got enough wind to fly about 20-30 feet before landing on the ground.
After that he kept trying to fly but couldn't get enough air. I had him step up on my finger and he took off again, toward the cage and landed on it this time... he loves that cage and gets so desperate to go to it. I suppose that's a good thing.

In all honesty this is probably a great time to teach him to fly outside but i'm not.. instead i'm imposing a no-outside-without-cage rule.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:23 pm
by MissK
Congratulations that he's flying, but bigger congrats that he's flying HOME. That's fantastic.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:10 am
by Donovan
Neko is starting to talk which is neat..

i've been saying "Hello, I'm Neko!" to him for a while... so he's trying the "I'm Neko" part ... but he's struggling with it... just now he went "M'Neko-oh-ooh-Aaah-SQUAWK"

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:21 pm
by Donovan
Neko has just discovered the joy of sticking his head down into his food bowl and making noise for the acoustics.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:02 pm
by MissK
What a silly! My little Linnie (Wally) is learning to say "How are you", and HE'S NOT LEARNING IT FROM ME!! :lol:

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:05 pm
by SkyeBerry
Hi Donavon - just re-read the entire thread. Sounds like you are having lots of fun. FYI - I read that birds often say 'Hi' before "Hello." It is an easier word for them. There are books, and sites I am sure, that tell you how to teach them to talk but I have not accessed them. I just come across the odd fact when researching other things. It is my understanding that if you just sit and talk to them, or have them listen to a tape etc, they will learn to mimic the phrase but have no context. If you want them to understand what the word means then you need to use it appropriately. The same as you would a human child. I go back and forth as to how much Skye truly understands but it is definitely increasing. Lately, I have noticed that if I do something to annoy him, he flies away, comes back, looks at me and says " Say sorry." LOL What gets me is I have never said "Say sorry." I have said "I am sorry." So now when Skye does act inappropriately, I tell him "Say sorry." He has not said sorry back. Usually if he has been naughty but then wants attention, he says "Kisses?"

re: bluffing phase - some animal behaviourists do not believe there is such a phase. Maybe because there will be many 'bluffing phases' as you and the bird go through various life changes together??? I am not sure. What I did was to follow Barbara Heidenreich advise. Hmmm...oops...cannot remember enough of it to advise you. But it worked with Skye. In general, she recommends lots of patience and kindness and never to push a bird past its comfort zone. Thus, it becomes your job to learn the different subtle and not so subtle signs and what they mean. She has a good video on how she worked with her own bird when it started not wanting to go into its cage. I am going to "save draft" and have a quick look for you.

'phew' - had some trouble getting the draft back - but so far - some info you might find interesting re: biting
http://goodbirdinc.blogspot.ca/2012/12/ ... -bite.html

did not find her comment re:bluffing

but found:

http://goodbirdinc.blogspot.ca/2009/08/ ... ck-in.html

I am surprised Mr. Bell does not want to go outside when Neko is out there, especially since he worked so hard at spending the night in Neko's cage.

I am so glad you decided to put the birds in separate cages after their spat. This is one area (of many) where I agree with MissK - no need to rush. The three of you have a long life together ahead of you.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:28 pm
by Donovan
Mr. Bell has recently become very cooperative about going into the transport (to outside) cage.

The only thing Neko says in proper context is peekaboo, and so does mr bell. They'll get on the bill of my hat.. lean down, look at me upside down and go ... peekaboo haha..

but no, i haven't really taught words in context... although mr bell once landed on me randomly and said thank you... i assumed he wanted a treat since i had been trying to teach him to say thank you when he got a treat... instead he used it to get a treat... .... close enough

Neko has become a full blown flyer now and has become the nuisance i was hoping he would become. he gets into things he shouldn't... lands on my head when i don't want him to... poops on my shoulder (arg).. Mr. Bell doesn't poop on me.. he's actually potty trained to a couple of spots.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:30 pm
by Donovan
and nekos vocabulary is increasing daily... so he's not as good at learning puzzles or tricks as mr bell is, but he learns words.. so both birds are fun in different ways

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:32 pm
by Donovan
So,
New cage location apparently means new routine on putting the birds away.. i have to learn the new deal now

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:47 pm
by Trinnity
Donovan wrote:and nekos vocabulary is increasing daily... so he's not as good at learning puzzles or tricks as mr bell is, but he learns words.. so both birds are fun in different ways
That's a cool name: "Neko". Very nice.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:36 pm
by Donovan
thanks.. oddly enough I learned later on that Neko may be the japanese word for "cat" haha

of my two birds... one is dog-like... and neko is more cat-like in his mannerisms and personality

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:40 pm
by AJPeter
Hi
I am trying to teach Billie to say "Naughty!" I heard a macaw say it and he draggged the word out it was hilarious!

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:26 pm
by Donovan
maybe make it a "you're so naaaaughty"

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:37 am
by AJPeter
Good idea on this theme of talking in the morning Billie seems reluctant to poop so l make farting noises with my lips to get her gastric juices working and this does the trick! Maybe she will make farting noises?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:07 pm
by Donovan
i don't think they're speaking ability is good enough to mimic that but keep trying it might work haha

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:52 am
by SkyeBerry
Skye learned to bark because of the neighbours dog. The sound is muffled by the time it gets into the house but Skye definitely barks - it is a soft 'woof woof.' If it was more 'barky' I might not be so pleased.

I taught Skye to say 'weee' after learning another bird says it when he swings. Skye doesn't play, but he quickly learned that touching a target stick gets him food - it was then easy to teach him to circle - interestingly he can bend easily in one direction and not nearly as well as the other. I am currently trying to teach him to put a coin in a 'bank.'

I recently learned Caleb is the Jewish word for 'dog' - not sure if I should mention it to my neighbours - their son who is named Caleb.

Peter - keep in mind you never know what may become Billie's favorite word -and he may use it a lot! ie) farting noises
- BTW - Skye is no trained monkey - he has no problem letting me know he will say words when he wants - if I ask him to say a word, he sometimes says most of his vocabulary except that word

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:57 pm
by Donovan
Neko apparently recently discovered his reflection. He's always ignored it in the past but the last couple of days he's been pretty impressed with himself.

Anyway this morning he kept collecting toys and flying back to the mirror with them. I don't know what he was thinking but it did it 3 or 4 times. I don't know if he was using the scientific method to determine that what he was seeing was in fact his reflection.... if he was just being silly... or if he was making an offering to the other bird which irns don't really do :P

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:02 pm
by AJPeter
Hallo Donovan the escaped bird was Ash who took in another bird, as you know l have a large 2' x 3' mirror on the wall behind Billie's cage, the only time she sings and talks is to her reflection but she has never carried anything up to show her relfection.

Does Neko have a large mirror?

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:08 pm
by Donovan
yeah i leave a large mirror in the floor.. propped against the wall and the birds can go down and check themselves out from time to time.

Re: Neko the new guy

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:02 pm
by AJPeter
I feel sorry for birds that only have a budgie size mirror, Billiie talks to her reflection in the mirrow on the wall, some time she scolds it. Yesterday l moved the cage so l could vacumn the floor and she could see herself in a different mirror, she was very intrigued.