Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

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ErnieisAwesome
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:16 pm

Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by ErnieisAwesome »

I've been lurking on this forum now for a while and posted a few times and I gotta say there is more post about mutations and what color you are trying to make these poor birds achieve than bird lovers posting photos and sharing tips with others. And that make me really sad . I've been trying to post a photo of my bird for over a week and it keeps coming up " spam " . I find it to be really difficult and not that user friendly for those of us not trying to make a buck but really wanting to socialize with other families that have made these precious creatures apart of the family .
Good luck to those of you who actual really love yiur featherd friend and all you mad wanna be scientists out there that have no clue what their doing and.know nothing about IRN but have decided to breed them , I hope your entire hatch comes out regular ole green .
SunniDai
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:49 pm
Location: Washington state, USA

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by SunniDai »

I understand what you are talking about. Don't give up on us yet, though :)
~Dana

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ErnieisAwesome
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by ErnieisAwesome »

Dana,
You have a beautiful bird family ! I always wondered if it would be possible to own more than one IRN and still have a bond with my 1st and by the look of your photo it looks very possible , yes ?
I don't give up that easy just making an outsider observation . :) I know not ALL of this forum is breeders just looks like that's the majority of posters atm.
Donovan
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Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:18 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by Donovan »

lol.. i call them mad scientists too
ErnieisAwesome
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by ErnieisAwesome »

Lol! I guess because I consider my bird to be like one of my actual children , I think of how awful it would be if their were a bunch of men sitting around trying to decide the looks of actual human babies. I understand the color variations are beautiful I just think some people get out of hand . We're talking about a real , living , breathing creature here . Not a pack of Now or Laters.
SunniDai
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:49 pm
Location: Washington state, USA

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by SunniDai »

Yes it is possible. Oscar, Luna and Oliver are all rescues, so they pretty much don't let us touch them freely. They tolerate us being near them lol. But in the past year, Oscar and Luna have come a LONG way and Oliver has too in the six months we've had him.
~Dana

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SunniDai
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:49 pm
Location: Washington state, USA

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by SunniDai »

Oh and I can understand the fascination with the different color mutations. They are beautiful. When I got Skyelar, he picked us. I purposely picked Sunni. The other three I knew nothing about. I'm more of an artist than a biologist.
I found your "pack of Now and Laters" comment funny :lol:
~Dana

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MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by MissK »

Hi Ernie,

I'm sorry you are not finding the best this Forum has to offer. I can assure you that when I joined I was the rankest of forum novices, and I was able to come up to speed very quickly. Ellie made a post quite some time back that might possibly help you with your pictures. http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... age#p90606

If you don't mind my saying, I think it is a bit unfair to suggest that the breeders here are unknowledgeable and care only for developing colour mutations and making a buck. You are probably noticing posts from novice IRN keepers who have an interest in breeding but possibly little general knowledge about keeping or breeding IRNs. They are a visible minority. The experienced breeders here are vastly knowledgeable and remarkably generous with their advice as well, and tolerant of all manner of newbie approaches. If you find yourself in need of expert help, a breeder may well be the one who helps you. Please note, too, not all breeders are men, and without breeders you would not have your bird.

I must also challenge your impression that breeders make the majority of posts. I just checked in on a mutations thread and only one of the nine breeders posting there had a history of even half the number of posts I have made, myself. If you would like to read a great deal of verbiage that has nearly nothing to do with breeding or mutations, I invite you to search for posts that I have made. Most of them are in threads that involve people who love their birds very much and seek to improve their relationships with them. While I am not in any way responsible for this Forum, I am proud to be a contributing member. I believe this is the very best forum I have ever seen and I feel that your disparaging comments regarding the Forum and the Members are unwarranted.
-MissK
InTheAir
Posts: 2040
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:24 pm

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by InTheAir »

Another great post from Missk.

A couple other points to add to hers:
*if I had a medical emergency outside my avian vets hours there are a couple breeders here that I would pm because they know more about birds than the vet down the road. If I felt my birds had a diet problem I would also consult them as well as my avian vet as the breeders have a lot more history with this particular species than my av.
* I love my amazing coloured birds that some mad scientists created!
* I have visited a couple breeders from here (and got my sapphire from a member) and their birds get better conditions than a lot of pet birds. They are flighted, they get fresh vegetables, the young get to interact with their own species in flight aviaries, they are never left in isolation like pets while the owners are at work. No one squirts them with a waterbottle or covers their cages when they make to much noise. Quite a lot get raised by their parents, as opposed to being taken away to be raised in isolation from their species, which is one of my pet peeves! The guy I got Sapphire from has a great relationship with his aviary birds, he never tries to pat them or treat them like stuffed toys and a lot of them love to talk to him and follow him around as he passes their flights. They do this by choice. I visited my neighbour a few weeks ago to invite them to join our parrot club (I can hear their irn screeching a lot) and their bird can scream "be quiet" and seldom comes out of it's tiny cage...

I have not been visiting this site so much recently because it is breeding season in the northern hemisphere and I get so depressed by all the new posts from people who have just got a baby irn and are wondering why it is sick (because they don't hand feed it correctly) or why it bites (because they don't handle it correctly)....


There is no such thing as a bad bird! They are just misunderstood or handled in a way they can't relate to. I have to give the breeders who regularly participate on this site some credit for being able to allow bird behaviour to be bird behaviour, and they are more intelligent than me... They understand genetics! A few of them will comment in the pet sections with a very pro-flight stance and they have helped change the opinion on at least one or 2 pet owners on here to pro-flight (isn't that right, Mel?).

I am dead against people buying unweaned parrots... I generally don't point the finger though, I just try to point them to the best help I can offer, the breeders forum here! I just wish everyone who wanted a parrot would research and consider the pros and cons of raising a bird as a novice!


Enough said?
Donovan
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Location: North Carolina

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by Donovan »

ernie it takes like 5 days before you can post pics... alternately, i've seen people manage to post them from the beginning.. not sure how they pull that off
AJPeter
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Contact:

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by AJPeter »

It really gets up my nose when people (present company excepted) who come barge-ing in here with out reading up on stickies or the rules, who only half read posts and worse who post in other people's posts with subjects totally unrelated, I am glad l am no longer like that!
Donovan
Posts: 833
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:18 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by Donovan »

AJ, i would say there is an acceptable refinement period..

however, back on subject.
Whereas MissK's and InTheAir's posts were enjoyable to read I understand where Ernie is coming from. From my own point of view I am always concerned with where the breeders send their baby birds. They sell them, to the first buyer in many cases. Many times those are impulse buys from people who have no idea what they're getting in to and so I am certain many birds end up with far less than favorable living conditions.

A couple of years ago I had an accidental litter of kittens. Luckily they turned out to be abnormally attractive cats (was offered money for them even). Anyway to find homes for them I put an ad on craigslist locally. When someone responded I would check their email with social media like facebook and go check them out. See what kind of people they were. In doing this I managed to weed out potentially unsuitable owners for the kittens. The result was that I found people that I felt would be proper owners of these cats. Amazingly I have heard from -each- of the owners about a year later. People telling me how the cat turned out including pictures and what they named it.

When I got my bird I had entertained the idea of getting him a girlfriend, but then I couldn't stand the thought of going through this same process every time they cranked out a clutch of chicks. Whereas it would be an interesting project to pursue I don't like the idea of just selling birds to... whoever..

I recognize that breeding-birds in aviaries may in fact have pleasant lives and in some way better lives than pets. I also recognize that there exists some degree of detachment from the babies in the name of money.
I currently have at least one amazing bird, in terms of his people skills, (neko for those of you familiar) and he was raised by one of these detached breeders. So, I also see the benefits. The people I bought the bird from have no clue what type of person I am, if I had any prior experience, if I have the general mentality to take on such a demanding and intelligent animal, or if I have the time and patience to provide it an enriching life. They did however take the time to condition this young bird so well that even people with little to no experience could handle him and interact with him. And that is important when dealing with the wrong type of owners, people who might evolve into proper owners.
Plus such a conditioned bird is worth more money haha..

So I see ernie's point about breeders and mutations, etc. I would also never kill an animal but I don't mind eating beef and chicken. I would never breed IRNs but i'm happy to take one as a pet.
ErnieisAwesome
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by ErnieisAwesome »

Actually , Yes you are 100% right . I would not have my Ernie if it weren't for a breeder. A dirt bag breeder that didn't like his color and was just going to get rid of him . He dropped him off at the pet store where I take photos at and i felt sorry for him , so i took him home . So yes , it it weren't for the money grubbing , dirt bag breeder , i wouldn't have my Ernie. = ) Thanks for pointing that out.

Again , I did say in my post that not EVERYONE on here is breeders . That wouldn't make any sense because who would they sell their Hot pink , Lavender Blue , Triple lacewing , 2 degrees from kevin bacon Birds ? ? Haha So , lets quit the school yard bashing and just get back to loving our pets mmmkay ? I can tell already that this just like every forum on the internet is going to have their little " clicks " and I'm too old for that crap.
ErnieisAwesome
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by ErnieisAwesome »

Donovan wrote:ernie it takes like 5 days before you can post pics... alternately, i've seen people manage to post them from the beginning.. not sure how they pull that off
im not sure either . They must be friends with the mods .
ErnieisAwesome
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by ErnieisAwesome »

Donovan wrote:AJ, i would say there is an acceptable refinement period..

however, back on subject.
Whereas MissK's and InTheAir's posts were enjoyable to read I understand where Ernie is coming from. From my own point of view I am always concerned with where the breeders send their baby birds. They sell them, to the first buyer in many cases. Many times those are impulse buys from people who have no idea what they're getting in to and so I am certain many birds end up with far less than favorable living conditions.

A couple of years ago I had an accidental litter of kittens. Luckily they turned out to be abnormally attractive cats (was offered money for them even). Anyway to find homes for them I put an ad on craigslist locally. When someone responded I would check their email with social media like facebook and go check them out. See what kind of people they were. In doing this I managed to weed out potentially unsuitable owners for the kittens. The result was that I found people that I felt would be proper owners of these cats. Amazingly I have heard from -each- of the owners about a year later. People telling me how the cat turned out including pictures and what they named it.

When I got my bird I had entertained the idea of getting him a girlfriend, but then I couldn't stand the thought of going through this same process every time they cranked out a clutch of chicks. Whereas it would be an interesting project to pursue I don't like the idea of just selling birds to... whoever..

I recognize that breeding-birds in aviaries may in fact have pleasant lives and in some way better lives than pets. I also recognize that there exists some degree of detachment from the babies in the name of money.
I currently have at least one amazing bird, in terms of his people skills, (neko for those of you familiar) and he was raised by one of these detached breeders. So, I also see the benefits. The people I bought the bird from have no clue what type of person I am, if I had any prior experience, if I have the general mentality to take on such a demanding and intelligent animal, or if I have the time and patience to provide it an enriching life. They did however take the time to condition this young bird so well that even people with little to no experience could handle him and interact with him. And that is important when dealing with the wrong type of owners, people who might evolve into proper owners.
Plus such a conditioned bird is worth more money haha..

So I see ernie's point about breeders and mutations, etc. I would also never kill an animal but I don't mind eating beef and chicken. I would never breed IRNs but i'm happy to take one as a pet.

THANK YOU for sharing your opinion openly without being offensive and like an adult . =)
Donovan
Posts: 833
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:18 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by Donovan »

ErnieisAwesome wrote:
Donovan wrote:ernie it takes like 5 days before you can post pics... alternately, i've seen people manage to post them from the beginning.. not sure how they pull that off
im not sure either . They must be friends with the mods .
I think it's more a case of dumb luck + file size + file type..
it's a fluke, possibly a bug, but it does happen
InTheAir
Posts: 2040
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:24 pm

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by InTheAir »

ErnieisAwesome wrote:Actually , Yes you are 100% right . I e if it weren't for a breeder. A dirt bag breeder that didn't like his color and was just going to get rid of him . He dropped him off at the pet store where I take photos at and i felt sorry for him , so i took him home . So yes , it it weren't for the money grubbing , dirt bag breeder , i wouldn't have my Ernie. = ) Thanks for pointing that out.

Again , I did say in my post that not EVERYONE on here is breeders . That wouldn't make any sense because who would they sell their Hot pink , Lavender Blue , Triple lacewing , 2 degrees from kevin bacon Birds ? ? Haha So , lets quit the school yard bashing and just get back to loving our pets mmmkay ? I can tell already that this just like every forum on the internet is going to have their little " clicks " and I'm too old for that crap.
umm... how about leading by example on the mature, adult discussion which is free from name calling....
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by ellieelectrons »

Hi Ernie

The problems with posting images occur because we have had pornographic spam images posted to the forum in the past. We have children who use this forum so getting that under control was important. Unfortunately the downside is that new users cannot post images which is regrettable. I don't know of anyone who has been able to post images straight away after joining. I think the avatar image may work for new users but not post images and hyperlinks.

I'm sorry you've been experiencing difficulties with the forum.

I'm not interested in mutations either but you will find that this forum has both a strong breeder community and a strong companion parrot community that usually get along.

Ellie.
ErnieisAwesome
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by ErnieisAwesome »

ellieelectrons wrote:Hi Ernie
I'm sorry you've been experiencing difficulties with the forum.

I'm not interested in mutations either but you will find that this forum has both a strong breeder community and a strong companion parrot community that usually get along.

Ellie.
Thank you Ellie . And i just want to say Im sorry if i came off a little bit** towards the breeders on the forum . You have to understand that at this very moment , I have a bird that i know nothing about because a " breeder " dumped him on someone else . So my experience has not been a good one and I took that out on ALL of the breeders which I'm sure isn't true. Im sure there are some of you that breed because you just enjoy it and find it interesting and its not about the money at all ..
So with that , I appreciate all help and responses I can get to help little Ernie have a healthy , happy life.
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by ellieelectrons »

No problem. Welcome.

The other thing you'll find is that many of the breeders here are extremely knowledgeable on health issues.

IRNs are wonderful companions and can be challenging. I hope you find the answers you seek here.

Ellie.
McmillanBirds
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:39 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Forum of breeders and not bird lovers

Post by McmillanBirds »

Hi Ernieis Awesome

I am a breeder, female at that, and I used to be very active on this forum. :)

I started out breeding in 2009, before I became a breeder, I acquired a little green IRN whom I named Biscuit, the breeder never helped me and I was completely in the dark when I raised her. She is now 11 years old. By some miracle I kept her alive and happy. She is my baby girl.

I started out being completely oblivious to mutations, but I fell in love with the species and knew I wanted to breed them one day. After 3 years of breeding them I became curious as to why I would only get certain colour mutations from my pairs when they were the complete opposite in colour. That is how I started on mutations.

My first year I bawled my eyes out when the babies went to their new homes. I have compiled up pictures and guides on what a baby should be eating, at what stages the feed levels change, what they should be looking like a certain ages and do's and dont's. I also make myself available to all who purchase babies from me, and even those who don't at any time of day or night for help, guidance and even a little encouragement. Before people buy birds from me(of which I sell them at a price just to cover my yearly costs), I make them research IRN and make sure they know what they are getting themselves into.

All of my pairs have names and are in big avairies. They are all my babies.

I just want you to know that we are not all the bad guys, we also love our birds.

Best of luck :)

Carmen

As a side note, I will never take my babies to a pet shop. I do not agree with how they are treated and have everyone looking and poking and prodding them.
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