a bit about us and our bird

Let us know a little about yourself! Tell us about your birds and why you are here.

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eckythump
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:18 am
Location: nottingham uk

a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

hi, thought i would share my story, on the 7th of march this year ( 2014 ) my partner and i decided we would like our pet to be an IRN, so we started looking for some and finally found an advert on gumtree of a woman selling 2 baby IRN's for a very reasonable price 120 miles away in london, we bought them and took them home, 1 of them seemed fairly tame like it had been handled, it would also let me tickle its belly, meanwhile the other was so scared all it would do was flap its wings and try to get away, 1 morning 3 weeks after we bought them i made a gruesome discovery..... the most tame IRN called freddie had passed in the night, i called a vet which did not help so i went to a guy that was a breeder and also owned a pet shop, he looked at the bird and said it had starved itself to death because it was probably traumatised by the move, this worried me greatly..... was i going to wake up 1 morning to find it had happened to pennie our other IRN??? well as time has gone by we still have pennie and she seems in great health :D the same day as freddie died something changed in pennie that was totally unexpected, i put my hand in the cage and instead of her flapping and scared out of her skin she jumped on my hand ( stepped up ) and is no longer scared of me IN the cage, but i cant seem to get close by putting my fingers thru the cage she continues to move away, it almost feels like she is happy to step up in her domain but thats it, i'm sure in time that will change and she is a lovely bird and now a totally integrated member of our family.
Little Buttercup
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by Little Buttercup »

Hi, welcome. So sorry about your loss. Wishing you all the best with Pennie!

Ash
eckythump
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Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

Little Buttercup wrote:Hi, welcome. So sorry about your loss. Wishing you all the best with Pennie!

Ash
thx she is doin really well thx for ur comment :)
MissK
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by MissK »

Hi. Sorry about your trouble with Freddie. I hope someone here may be able to shed some light, because it seems to me that it would not take a bird three weeks to starve. He may have been unwell to start.

Regarding Pennie, her turnabout seems a fortunate event. Many people complain the bird is nice only outside the cage and guards the inside. My bird was another who surprised me by stepping up on his own while I was cleaning the cage. Simply dumbfounding, but wonderful.

I suggest you help Pennie learn to follow a food lure. The skill will be so helpful to everyone. Simply give her treats and then hold one juuuust far enough away so she must stretch to get it. Practice this a while and then try a few juuuust a little bit further away, so she moves her body to reach it. Continue in the same way, giving now a treat up close, then one she needs to move to get. Keep the changes very small and start with only a very few in between distances she is very comfortable with. Eventually she will be following your hand before you put the treat where you intend to hold it. You will be able to lead her around by her following the treat.

Additionally, once she is so comfortable following the treat you may start holding it from the outside of the cage. Let the treat poke in but not your finger. Then treats inside, then try another from outside. You may get a happy surprise!
-MissK
eckythump
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Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

very good idea missk however pennie dont seem to favour anything as a treat so i think it may be a long process of gaining trust :D this morning was the 1st time i could tickle her and her allow me to for a few seconds at a time, small steps but probably giant 1's for pennie, one thing that winds my partner up that i find endearing is that when i leave the room pennie squaks for me to come back in, i think you are right with the turnabout being a fortunate event though.
MissK
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by MissK »

Keep trying with different foods. Like a child who never had ice cream yet, she may not know her favourite foods and may need to learn them. Nuts (almonds, peanuts), seeds (sunflower, safflower), and fruit (apple, pear) as well as spray millet are all frequent favourites. Don't forget to eat these things in front of her, and let you and your partner feed each other these things in front of her, now and then offering a little her way. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day, and keep trying every day. You are not just offering her a snack; you are teaching her to take things from you as well.
-MissK
eckythump
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:18 am
Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

MissK wrote:Keep trying with different foods. Like a child who never had ice cream yet, she may not know her favourite foods and may need to learn them. Nuts (almonds, peanuts), seeds (sunflower, safflower), and fruit (apple, pear) as well as spray millet are all frequent favourites. Don't forget to eat these things in front of her, and let you and your partner feed each other these things in front of her, now and then offering a little her way. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day, and keep trying every day. You are not just offering her a snack; you are teaching her to take things from you as well.

thx for the advice missk it is well received, there are a few on the list i have yet to try, the thing bothering me the most at the moment is that i can put my hand in the cage and play with pennie but if my hand is outside the cage she runs away, from the things ive read here and on google forums this is pretty rare, she wont go near anyone when shes out either she flies away from us, if anyone has any ideas how to change this it would be most helpful. :)
MissK
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by MissK »

Reread my post 4 posts up. Teach her to follow a lure.
-MissK
eckythump
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Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

MissK wrote:Reread my post 4 posts up. Teach her to follow a lure.

little bit difficult as i said missk she dont favor any treats at the moment
MissK
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by MissK »

OK, ekky; Keep Trying! Every day.
-MissK
eckythump
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Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

MissK wrote:OK, ekky; Keep Trying! Every day.

oh i will, eventually i will stumble across it :) shes come on a bundle compared to the skittish little bird from a few weeks ago :)
eckythump
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Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

MissK wrote:OK, ekky; Keep Trying! Every day.

might have found pennies favorite treat, just not sure if IRN's are supposed to eat them..... raisins if anyone can veryfy that its ok to feed them to her would be a great help :)
eckythump
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Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

ok ive been on this site a while and thought i wud put a pic up of my IRN, ive had her for 2 months now and today i went out and bought a 2cnd IRN for my partners birthday called blue, now pennie is no longer lonely ( not that she was anyway lol )

PENNIE

Image


BLUE

Image
Donovan
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by Donovan »

I don't know the situation around the other bird starving or if that's even true but I have heard of it happening even when they had seed. Basically they ate most of it but the bowl still looks full so no new seed gets put in. In any case, how is pennie handling blue?
eckythump
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Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

Donovan wrote:I don't know the situation around the other bird starving or if that's even true but I have heard of it happening even when they had seed. Basically they ate most of it but the bowl still looks full so no new seed gets put in. In any case, how is pennie handling blue?

well blue is a bit older than pennie and he was deffo hand reared so very tame and has started to mimic, he came out of his cage basically as soon as we got him in the door, the missus was changing his water and he just nudged past her and went on top of his cage, i thought ah well lets see if he steps up and he did then gave me a few kisses then back down my arm straight on to pennies cage, i opened pennies cage and she didnt want to come out so i left the door open for her turned my back for 30 seconds and blue was in her cage in a blink of an eye, they seem to get on well till blue puts his beak on her feet or tries to preen her then she growls and screams at him....... all in all not bad for the 1st hours that we got him home :)
MissK
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by MissK »

I missed (or forgot) why we were talking about birds starving with seeds in the bowl :?: , but the deal is that it could happen in very basic ways -

1) Bird eats seeds on the top layer of the dish, and a layer of chaff covers the rest of the seeds. The chaff hides the seeds from the bird so he sees no more food, eats no more food.
(2) Variation on that, the chaff on top fools the keeper into thinking the bird has plenty of food and doesn't give more - bird could be missing the seed in the bowl OR the bowl could contain nothing but chaff, either way, bird doesn't eat.
(3) Bird eats all the seeds it identifies as food and while other seeds in the mix remain, bird does not eat them because, again, they're not seen as food. Bird doesn't eat.

It seems a foolish way for a bird to starve, with food right there, but it can certainly happen. I guess that's why we call them Bird Brains.
-MissK
AJPeter
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by AJPeter »

Budgies seem not to dig below the chaff, and it is true the chaff could hide an empty bowl, the moral is to throw away yesterday's seed bowl whether eaten or not. My Alex hen ploughs through her seed bowl scattering seeds every where looking for the choice item. Do IRN act like budgies with the seed bowl?
SunniDai
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by SunniDai »

Mine seem to fling everything in the seed bowl far and wide to get to something they THINK might be below the chaff.
~Dana

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eckythump
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Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

i don't really like the fact that blue's wings have been clipped although i can see the benefits of it, got a question for anyone who knows the answer....... do IRN's learn off each other because blue is really tame and will come on to me out of the cage but pennie will only come to me while in the cage ( i think she feels safer ) as soon as i go to take her out she scrambles back to 1 of her perches, things i've tried are trying to lure her with her fav treats but with no joy, so if anyone else has any ideas i would be most appreciative.
MissK
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by MissK »

do IRN's learn off each other
Absolutely.
-MissK
SkyeBerry
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Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by SkyeBerry »

Hi...I have read all of this thread after researching specific words to find a different message. I agree with MissK - seeing the new bird trust you will be beneficial for the more timid bird. But please remember that each bird will develop trust based on its own time frame. Some birds can take a year or more. Also, birds accept human interaction, hands on touch etc to various degrees. This is one of the reasons it is often recommended that if you know exactly what type of relationship you want with your bird, you look for a bird that already allows that interaction - of course, as your skills develop, you become more confident in your ability to train a younger bird and/or one with less acceptance of people/or trained behaviours. Some species of bird are also more friendly, trusting, and accepting of hands on manipulation. I hope you were aware that Indian Ringnecks are not generally known to be 'cuddly' prior to choosing this species.

I think the point you made with the bird feeling safer in its cage and more accepting of you while your hand is in the cage versus outside of the cage is accurate. I think this points to you having a timid bird that may have not been handled/worked with very often versus a bird that has been poorly handled and/or abused by a person. In my opinion, your situation is more favourable for you but you must be very patient.


I would suggest the following: assuming you have bird proofed the area, I would leave the cage doors open as much as possible to allow your first bird to come out on his own as much as possible - provided you are there to also supervise. Create a playgym with toys. Is there one already on the cage top? If not create one. You need to provide 'environmental enrichment' that will stimulate your birds curiosity. Seeing the new bird interact with these things should also increase the first bird's motivation. Do not try and interact with the bird if it comes out of the cage. This may cause it to become uncomfortable and quickly return to the cage and he/she may decide to not investigate further. Set up a feeding station outside of the the first bird's cage. Do not worry about knowing what the bird's favourites are. Put in food that you know the new bird likes. Again seeing the second bird eat at this station will hopefully increase motivation to come investigate.

Continue to work with the bird while it is in the cage. Use tiny pieces of nut, fruit the bird will eat, bits of millet sprig to feed the bird from your hand. You want the bird to see your hand as friendly and having good food. Of course, if you do discover the bird has a favorite use this.

I also suggest you research Barbara Heidenreich's article and videos on target training. (http://www.goodbirdinc.com/)Use this information and train your bird to target to various items and places within the cage. Once you have successfully completed this step, place a bird right at the cage entrance. Target or station the bird to this perch on the inside of the cage. Eventually change this perch for one that also extends outside the cage. Move the bird closer to the door by small increments. Successfully completed, target the bird one step out of the cage, then two etc. Be patient and very encouraging. I have not yet heard of a bird that does not seemed pleased to hear a very enthusiastic and sincere "Good Bird!"

Please keep us posted. Note: my IRN is also very timid but has come a long way. But I have been very patient and have been happy to just talk and observe him. This can be very useful in developing a relationship. In my situation, my bird has also picked up 75 words he uses. Some he clearly understands and uses to get what he wants. Some IRN's develop a large vocab, some a few words, and some none. Again, it is recommended that if you really want a talking bird, you need to purchase a bird that is a known talker. Even species that are known as super talkers, have individuals that show no interest in developing this ability.

You should also move the cage to any area that the bird can observe you in your daily activities. Alternately, sit close to the cage and read a book, watch TV, nap, knit etc. This shows the bird you are 'safe' and not interested in hunting it. Along this line, some birds/animals are naturally more timid/submissive and therefore are not comfortable with loud voices or direct eyes contact, 'hard eyes'. Try looking at the bird from the corner of your eyes, or with your head bowed down so you have to look up. This again is less threatening.

Good luck! We will all be looking forward to reading about your progress. Everyone is here to help and most have come up with various obstacles to overcome. You will find that there are sometimes differing opinions. In my opinion, this is because different methods work better for different personalities of people, birds, and people/bird combinations. You will ultimately find out what works best for you and your birds. :D
Mary
eckythump
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

heres an update, blue has been with us for just under 3 weeks now and both my birds are coming along in leaps and bounds without me having to do anything except spending plenty of time with them, pennie now comes to me outside the cage and gives me kisses and rubs noses, she is also very vocal and seems to be trying to talk but its just not happening YET, as for blue well what can i say he now has a black ring starting to form around his neck so is a boy, we was told by the auctioneer when we bought him that he was semi tame and was starting to talk..... we never heard anything for the 1st week then he fell to sleep one afternoon and seemed to be having a nightmare and he was talking, peekaboo, tickle tickle and hello could be clearly heard, he now says what you doing and the clearest word of all is thankyou, my birds are only in their cages at bedtime unless no one is home then blue is in his cage, they seem to be ok together, the odd squabble which i wont get involved in unless it becomes necessary, pecking order and all that, blue seems to be the boss most of the time, blue seems to not like fingers so i still cant tickle him yet but i am hoping he picks that up off pennie coz she does.

as far as training my birds ive decided to go down the road of them doing it naturally or not at all, that is to say if they want to come, talk or what ever they will, if they do thats great if not that is also fine, i still love my birds what ever, none of them bite so all is good :)
MissK
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by MissK »

Hey,

I understand wanting to let them "do it naturally". I think you might want to consider my personal, in my house, preferred for me training method, which I really consider to be "lazy training". I would rather enjoy my birds than pursue an agenda - seems too much like work to lazy me. However, I do have goals, stored waaaay back in the back of my head, and my bird does learn new things.

Basically, I keep the bird and I interact with the bird, and I provide him the tools for doing whatever I wanted, and once he has had a good, long time to get comfortable with the trappings of whatever, then I go in with the food lure and entice the behaviour out of him.

Of course, my training goals may be rather a bit different than other people's. I don't expect to ever want my bird to "give a kiss", for instance. But, I have helped him learn how to fly, how to climb and swing, negotiate a variety of surfaces, to step up, go into a different cage - stuff like that. What I want for him is that he know how to be a bird, since he didn't really know how to do that when he came to me, plus the absolute basics skills for living with humans.

I think what I do is very, very laid back. It does still include some guidance, though, so the bird is not left to develop skills or not, leaving it to chance. Your birds, especially Blue, seem to have some behaviours already, and you might be content with that. However, consider teaching them, however lazily, the skills they will need to make living with humans easier, plus any skills they don't already have that would be needed in the unexpected event you had to rehome them one day. I'm talking about taking juice (maybe one day medicine) from a spoon, going into a travel cage without a fuss, permitting toweling (such as done by the vet) , even stepping onto the vet scale, accepting strangers with grace, -that kind of stuff. Also teach them to eat pellets, regardless of if you want them to have that in their diet, because if they one day end up in a rescue situation, that's what they will likely be given to eat.
-MissK
eckythump
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:18 am
Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

MissK wrote:Hey,

I understand wanting to let them "do it naturally". I think you might want to consider my personal, in my house, preferred for me training method, which I really consider to be "lazy training". I would rather enjoy my birds than pursue an agenda - seems too much like work to lazy me. However, I do have goals, stored waaaay back in the back of my head, and my bird does learn new things.

Basically, I keep the bird and I interact with the bird, and I provide him the tools for doing whatever I wanted, and once he has had a good, long time to get comfortable with the trappings of whatever, then I go in with the food lure and entice the behaviour out of him.

Of course, my training goals may be rather a bit different than other people's. I don't expect to ever want my bird to "give a kiss", for instance. But, I have helped him learn how to fly, how to climb and swing, negotiate a variety of surfaces, to step up, go into a different cage - stuff like that. What I want for him is that he know how to be a bird, since he didn't really know how to do that when he came to me, plus the absolute basics skills for living with humans.

I think what I do is very, very laid back. It does still include some guidance, though, so the bird is not left to develop skills or not, leaving it to chance. Your birds, especially Blue, seem to have some behaviours already, and you might be content with that. However, consider teaching them, however lazily, the skills they will need to make living with humans easier, plus any skills they don't already have that would be needed in the unexpected event you had to rehome them one day. I'm talking about taking juice (maybe one day medicine) from a spoon, going into a travel cage without a fuss, permitting toweling (such as done by the vet) , even stepping onto the vet scale, accepting strangers with grace, -that kind of stuff. Also teach them to eat pellets, regardless of if you want them to have that in their diet, because if they one day end up in a rescue situation, that's what they will likely be given to eat.

to be honest missk i think you have misunderstood what i was saying, perhaps i should have made it clearer, most of what i have read is humans teaching their birds how they want them to act, what i was saying was that i will not force positive behavior because that is how i want them to be, what i meant was if there was something they did not want to eat or do then i would not push it.

as for things a vet may do while giving treatment my vet asks me to wait outside so my animals dont connect me with anything that might be bad, i also accept you have plenty of knowledge about birds that probably exceeds my own 30 odd years, admittedly these are my 1st indian ring necks but they are very much the same as some of the other birds i have kept over the years, i dont really consider my approach to my birds as lazy and i am pretty much offended at the idea, what i was saying is that i will let them do things at their own pace, from what i can work out i think blue may have been physically abused and that pennie still is very skittish around everyone except me, i work from my pc at home so i spend a lot of the day with them interacting, their cages are 2 feet to the left of me, my birds also pick which cage they want to sleep in ( seperately ) and since ive been doing that they seem to prefer to sleep in each others cage rather than their own.
MissK
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by MissK »

Hi. Yes, I did misunderstand. I thought you meant you were not going to train them at all. Sorry. Now I think I understand you meant you will not force them to do something they don't want to do. That's great. We can all agree that's the best way to go! :D

I see you are offended because you think I have called your training approach lazy. Here it is you who have misunderstood - if you will kindly reread my first line, you will find the words "my personal, in my house, preferred for me", which I thought would make it clear the following concepts described my own and not yours or anyone else's that I was suggesting you might like to try. So sorry if this was not clear to you.
-MissK
eckythump
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

MissK wrote:Hi. Yes, I did misunderstand. I thought you meant you were not going to train them at all. Sorry. Now I think I understand you meant you will not force them to do something they don't want to do. That's great. We can all agree that's the best way to go! :D

I see you are offended because you think I have called your training approach lazy. Here it is you who have misunderstood - if you will kindly reread my first line, you will find the words "my personal, in my house, preferred for me", which I thought would make it clear the following concepts described my own and not yours or anyone else's that I was suggesting you might like to try. So sorry if this was not clear to you.
i think its ended up with crossed wires all around, i do apologise missk for my part of the misunderstanding, i think we all love our babies so much sometimes we may rush reading things just to get back to playing and bonding with them.

you mentioned something about blue having some behavior's which i don't understand, was you talking about him talking in his sleep??

i must admit although i want my pennie to be the same with all of my family i am secretly enjoying the fact that she is bonding quicker with me at the moment, i suppose its a little selfish but i just cant help myself :)

i will take another photo of blue in the next few days and put it on here, i cant believe how quickly his ring is forming around his neck, he had nothing when we got him 3 weeks ago this thursday.
MissK
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by MissK »

Hi ecky,

I meant that Blue has some trained behaviours already - you mentioned the give a kiss, plus the talking and being semi tame. I bet you are going to discover he knows more than that, too. Now I'm dying to see this bird auction as well!
-MissK
eckythump
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Location: nottingham uk

Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by eckythump »

MissK wrote:Hi ecky,

I meant that Blue has some trained behaviours already - you mentioned the give a kiss, plus the talking and being semi tame. I bet you are going to discover he knows more than that, too. Now I'm dying to see this bird auction as well!
hi missk, i am learning things about blue everyday as he settles in, i live in the uk and we have what they call fur and feather auctions in a place called melton mowbray, here's a link to their webpage so you can take a look http://www.meltonmowbraymarket.co.uk/ , they dont get IRN's very often so it was fate as it was the 1st time we had gone and the mrs was looking for one his color, blue cost me £120 gbp and was the star of the sale and last to be sold, we didnt really know anything about him, name, age, favorite foods etc etc, he is rung and he was hatched in 2012 so still young.
MissK
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Re: a bit about us and our bird

Post by MissK »

Well, I really think you got quite lucky! :D

(MeltonMowbray looks like an exciting place!)
-MissK
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