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information on the web ?

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zentoucan
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Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:45 pm

information on the web ?

Post by zentoucan » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:45 am

I have been researching the IRN and the Alexandrine and have found that there are a lot of websites with vets, doctors, technicians, bird behaviour specialists, bird behaviour consultants, bird trainers, bird breeders and bird whisperers. They all have their say in how to raise, socialize and train your bird. There is a lot of conflicting information. This is most likely due a number of variations. These are, but not limited too, age of information, type of qualifications, length and type of experience, ability and analytical knowledge to deal with behaviour and training problems, up dated training techniques and lack of websites being updated.
Although there was one website that said to weed out most questionable bird behaviour specialists, bird behaviour consultants, bird trainers, bird breeders and bird whisperers. Is to check and verify their qualifications, reputations and testimonials and to read replies to questions asked. If in their replies they are judgmental, stating how long they have been dealing with birds, 20, 30 to 40 years, blaming the owners and telling stories that relate to the question but don't give a result and information that fails to match up with good reputable qualified vets, doctors, technicians, bird behaviour specialists. Then avoid these people as they will do more damage than good. Just because someone said, that they have been a bird trainer, breeder or whisperer for 20, 30 or 40 years doesn't make it true or them good.
Any way I have decided to get Alexandrine as they had more positives than the IRN.

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ellieelectrons
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Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: information on the web ?

Post by ellieelectrons » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:58 am

Hi Zentoucan

Welcome and best wishes for you and your Alexandrine. :)

You are right, there really is a lot of conflicting information out there and it can get really confusing.

... you'll get conflicting information here on this forum too as we are a mix of people with different experiences and ideas. However, we don't claim to be experts, we are just a group of people who love IRNs and other parrots and want what's best for them.

Ellie.

zentoucan
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Re: information on the web ?

Post by zentoucan » Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:05 pm

Hi elieelectrons
that's the different, there are people who claim to be experts and there are people who don't. some people who are new to bird keeping and wants the best for their birds will look towards the "expert" for advice and believe them. where as the people who don't claim to be "experts" are usually ignored. this doesn't mean they aren't experienced, they're not making any claims. The only advice I will take, will be from professionals after I have checked and verified their qualifications, reputations and testimonials. Because I want the best for my new arrival.

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InTheAir
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Re: information on the web ?

Post by InTheAir » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:28 pm

Hi,
Welcome to the full time job of researching how to keep a parrot! :wink:

My easy way of weeding out the rubbish on training is by not taking any advice that would make the bird uncomfortable with me. That leaves only the positive reinforcement pages, quite a few of my favourites have links to the pages of other trainers I like. :mrgreen: I think you'll figure out what you want to take on board pretty quickly once you have your bird.

Diet, on the other hand, I can't verify sources as well as I would like to. I've had to resort to reading papers on Google scholars about numerous different ringneck related topics as they generally have a paragraph or 2 of feeding observations. Tread warily in those ones, some of the things people do to animals for science is grosss!!
The best observations I've found on wild ringnecks was a study for the purpose of trying to decide the best way to cull them... :shock:

Regards,
Claire

zentoucan
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Re: information on the web ?

Post by zentoucan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:05 am

haven't looked into training methods yet. when I find a bird, think I 'ill let it settle in first . compared to diet, training looks a lot more intense and harder to navigate.
with diet I would speak to the breeder as to what he is feeding the bird, but my research shows good quality pellets, fresh fruit and veg, small amounts of seeds and meat (protein) shell grit, cuttlefish (calcium) and fresh water this done daily and in hot weather the food is remove and changed every 2-3 hours. I have noticed topics about foraging, enrichment and also training diets. but I haven't looked into these topics yet. if you feed the bird good quality food then your bird should be happy and healthy.

I wonder why they were going to cull the wild Indian ringneck, there must have been a very good reason why.

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InTheAir
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Re: information on the web ?

Post by InTheAir » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:33 am

Wild ringnecks appear to do a fair bit of damage to agricultural crops in some parts of Pakistan. There are also feral populations in other countries like the uk.
I'm not sold on pellets, I only feed them because I am pretty sure the manufactures have a better idea about nutrition than I do.... sort of a lesser evil type thing. ..
Some breeders know a lot about nutrition, some don't. ...

Foraging is the best thing ever! You'll love it.


Btw you might like this article
http://parrotconsultations.blogspot.com ... y.html?m=1

zentoucan
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Re: information on the web ?

Post by zentoucan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:27 am

I understand that a bird's diet shouldn't be changed drastically as it can have adverse effects on the bird. my research shows that pellets are only a small part of a birds diet and that fruit and veg are the mainstay. there was a comments about peanuts can be bad for your bird due to a possible bacterial infection of some peanuts which can make your bird very sick or worse fatal. this is the insidious part, packaged food for pets are of a lower standard then packaged food for humans. but because this bacteria doesn't effect humans it is in the peanuts that are sold for human consumption. the bird owner buys the peanuts thinking they have purchase clean peanuts. I have spent some of the day looking for a Alexandrine, found some prospects, need to visit these breeders for a look-see.
research foraging goes on the list.

Melika
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Re: information on the web ?

Post by Melika » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:59 am

zentoucan wrote:there was a comments about peanuts can be bad for your bird due to a possible bacterial infection of some peanuts which can make your bird very sick or worse fatal. this is the insidious part, packaged food for pets are of a lower standard then packaged food for humans. but because this bacteria doesn't effect humans it is in the peanuts that are sold for human consumption. the bird owner buys the peanuts thinking they have purchase clean peanuts.
There's a rather comprehensive explanation about peanuts and a fungus, not bacteria, called aspergillus and it's associated infection called aspergillosis in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11110

It should be noted, for those who don't want to take the time to read that thread, that most cases of aspergillosis in parrots in the past have now been said to be the result of vitamin deficiencies/malnutrition in the parrot which weakened their immune system. It should also be noted that this fungus is EVERYWHERE even in the ground outside (especially moist ground), so you and your parrot are always exposed to it already.
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I've been called 'birdbrained' before, but somehow I don't think this is what they meant. say:hah-nay

zentoucan
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Re: information on the web ?

Post by zentoucan » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:12 am

goes to show you can't believe everything you read

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InTheAir
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Re: information on the web ?

Post by InTheAir » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:04 am

Wellington zoo lost some rare kiwi chicks to aspergillosis in their bedding material this week.

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Skyes_crew
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Re: information on the web ?

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:39 am

I think most bad information comes from people with good intentions unfortunately. It becomes sort of like a chain letter. Example: I hear from my parrot club that a certain bird food is supposedly contaminated. I post on my favorite forum thinking I'm helping others out and saving birds...people from that forum tell others on another forum and before you know it it has reached hundreds of thousands of people. Only problem is that the original information came from someone who was misinformed to begin with. So the intentions were good overall, but the information was bad. I had a 30 minute argument with my parrot club president yesterday that dog saliva will not kill a bird on contact. Yes...that old rumor is STILL going around. She insisted that if a dog were to do so much as lick a bird it would infect the bird and the bird would die. Now to give her some leeway here...she is in her 70's. I guess the moral I'm trying to get at here is when it comes to the health and welfare of your bird, you can read all you want on the web, but trust only what has been documented by actual AV's or your AV. But when it comes to training and taming techniques, you'll never find a better family or wealth of knowledge than with people who have actually lived through it themselves and survived :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Melika
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Re: information on the web ?

Post by Melika » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:04 am

InTheAir wrote:Wellington zoo lost some rare kiwi chicks to aspergillosis in their bedding material this week.
Exactly why focusing on peanuts is so strange when it comes to aspergillosis. One article about the kiwi chicks said, "It is thought the birds' weakened immunity from the nematodes [worms] made them susceptible to this." The lessons I've drawn from research articles: 1) reduce large numbers of aspergillus spores in the environment where possible- for instance, aspergillus likes damp bedding and 2) do what you can to keep your parrot's immune system strong to prevent infection.

To my knowledge, there has only been one full on study done to test avian immune system vs aspergillus, and it supports what Vets have been theorising. http://www.veterinaryresearch.org/content/43/1/32

molossus wrote:micro wave the portion of peanuts for 3 x 30 sec intervals for half a cup...this should kill the fungus..
Can you verify this please?
Skyes_crew wrote:I think most bad information comes from people with good intentions unfortunately. It becomes sort of like a chain letter. I guess the moral I'm trying to get at here is when it comes to the health and welfare of your bird, you can read all you want on the web, but trust only what has been documented by actual AV's or your AV. But when it comes to training and taming techniques, you'll never find a better family or wealth of knowledge than with people who have actually lived through it themselves and survived :D
When I first began looking into what parrots can and cannot eat years ago, the whole 'peanut scare' was up there on things I had read and thought were true. When I was a child my mother had come home one day and told me never to buy nuts from bulk bins in stores, because of aspergillus, but only in bulk bins. When Oldguy posted that question in the linked thread earlier, and I decided to pursue the answer, I found that both the general internet community and my mother had been wrong. The actual research shows something completely different. Now, the people who wrote the articles blaming the peanut for such a horrible thing DID use quotes from research papers, but selectively and rarely posted the reference for you to read yourself. They sure did look like well-researched articles, but were not, since much useful information was actually left out. In some cases glaringly left out, like the article my mother had read about bulk bin storage and aspergillus- it doesn't seem to matter, according to researchers, where it's stored since most of the growth is going to happen before it's ever packaged and shipped.
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I've been called 'birdbrained' before, but somehow I don't think this is what they meant. say:hah-nay

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