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why is it?

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ShirleyBird
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why is it?

Post by ShirleyBird » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:06 pm

I have noticed that a bunch of people are having issues taming their birds( myself included ). Why is this? Are irn's in general hard to tame or are most of us just not purchasing the correctly ( example : purchasing from pet shops instead of breeders, expecting too much too soon, getting older birds instead of younger ). I just want to throw out there I'm perfectly happy if I can never touch my birds. I enjoy watching them being birds. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have a hands on relationship, but if I don't, its not going to effect how much I enjoy them,nor my commitment to provide them with a loving and safe home for the next 25-30 yrs. I just am hopeful That most feel the same way...animals of any kind are not items and shouldn't be "returned " for a person's mistake for not researching, or not having the time or commitment to try and tame. ANYTHING worth having is worth working for.
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julie
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Re: why is it?

Post by julie » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:16 am

expecting too much too soon comes to mind with some. I dont think getting a bird from a pet shop plays a part because I got my boy Indie from a pet shop and he ended up being a real sweetheart. They need to feel comfortable with us before they will even give us the time of day. It really helps a lot if they have been handled before.I reccomend getting a bird that is curious about you,you know the bird that when you go into a petshop and look at the birds without trying to touch them and just casually talk to them and they look like they are trying to understand what you are saying and when you make kissy noises it comes a little closer,thats the bird I would choose.

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Re: why is it?

Post by julie » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:40 am

I also think because some people see the very tame irns that people have and the ones that talk,do tricks ect and they think I want my bird to do that.They dont realize that it takes time and effort and sometimes our blood shed to get the birds to that point.

ShirleyBird
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Re: why is it?

Post by ShirleyBird » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:24 pm

[quote="Ariahna"]Shirley that is a very good question. Research, knowledge, patience and commitment are all necessary. I agree with Julie, the place the bird comes from really shouldn't matter if the new owner has the four qualities I mentioned. All to often though people will get birds without doing research and thinking through all the possibilities first. They don't think about the various ways their life may change (Marriage, kids, moving, etc.) and how that will affect their bird(s) and have a plan to deal with those changes.

I will regretfully admit that was me...I thought I want a bird that will talk and be loving and do tricks and do my laundry ...ok not the latter lol. But might as well.lol. I was unreasonably hopeful I was going to take them home and our wonderful life( the one I imagined ) would be obtained from day one.lol. Here we are mths later and STILL working on simply getting them to be petted! I catch myself now being so excited abt just getting Shirley to step up or going home on command. Lol. Far cry from teaching to talk or tricks, but ill tell you a secret ....I'm just as happy! I now realize it was unfair of me to put my hopes on them without thinking of all the trials they faced before they even reached our home. Its not fair to force your will on anyone, even birds. So we're taking things slow, going by their cues...after all, we are still getting to know each other and have (God willing) the next 25 yrs together to develop our relationship, so no rush...

Thx for the link! I wish everyone would read it, its words to think abt!
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ShirleyBird
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Re: why is it?

Post by ShirleyBird » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:30 pm

[quote="julie"]I also think because some people see the very tame irns that people have and the ones that talk,do tricks ect and they think I want my bird to do that.They dont realize that it takes time and effort and sometimes our blood shed to get the birds to that point.[/quote]

Very true on all parts...its so funny how its like kids, you think you know but until you're up @2:30 with no sleep and haven't showered for days(exaggerating ) you have no clue what all it takes. Lol.Thx for the response!
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Blueberrybird
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Re: why is it?

Post by Blueberrybird » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:56 am

This is a great link, I hope someone reads it before they purchase, but I will never understand how you could be dissapointed and re home a bird, that's sad, you should be committed to providing the best life possible for the animal, no matter what! And the videos you see on you tube are very misleading and overall are an injustice to these birds. ( I love my birdie!) even though he is acting like a monster at present! :)

julie
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Re: why is it?

Post by julie » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:12 am

Blueberrybird wrote:This is a great link, I hope someone reads it before they purchase, but I will never understand how you could be dissapointed and re home a bird, that's sad, you should be committed to providing the best life possible for the animal, no matter what! And the videos you see on you tube are very misleading and overall are an injustice to these birds. ( I love my birdie!) even though he is acting like a monster at present! :)
I wouldnt say they are misleading in any way its just people dont ask how long and how much effort has gone into getting them like that.

Blueberrybird
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Re: why is it?

Post by Blueberrybird » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:25 pm

I made my purchase after viewing you tube, all of those videos should have a disclaimer of sorts, lol! But I wouldn't trade my molting, non speaking, moody turd bird for anything. He is bitchier than me in the mornings and that is saying a lot. Hehe.

Blueberrybird
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Re: why is it?

Post by Blueberrybird » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:45 pm

Oh ariahna! I just read the old aviaries web link above, LOVE IT!! :)

ShirleyBird
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Re: why is it?

Post by ShirleyBird » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:12 pm

[quote="Blueberrybird"]I made my purchase after viewing you tube, all of those videos should have a disclaimer of sorts, lol! But I wouldn't trade my molting, non speaking, moody turd bird for anything. He is bitchier than me in the mornings and that is saying a lot. Hehe.[/quote]

Lol. At least we can take comfort in not being alone...as in Moody birdies. Unfortunately mine is x 2. I however found a solution to their biting. Don't stick hands near them! Lol. Seriously they are almost 10 mths now and can bite like nobody's business! I have tried gloves ( all that did was scare them to death ). They however now are eating treats out of my hands( with eyes watching to see if I try anything. Lol). Shirley is stick trained so she's easy to move abt.I guess I'm just waiting.......and waiting ....and waiting, for them to feel comfortable enough to pet, or at least handle. If no success, I can buy a "watch bird on duty" sign.lol. :) thx for sharing!
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ringneck
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Re: why is it?

Post by ringneck » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:53 am

This is a very interesting thread about Indain Ringnecks. I must say that I too agree youtube videos are very misleading for people who are new to parrots. In fact, most do not realize how much effort it takes in developing an extremely tame bird. Though there are many factors that develop the bird’s personality, the first year of the bird’s life and how it is socialized are the most critical elements that mold the bird. I believe many people make the mistake of believing these creatures are content inside their cages for many hours of the day. In fact, it is too easy to keep a pet bird in a cage and forget about it as most unprepared owners find the birds difficult to deal with—for many reasons I could list on and on.

For example, I am often left confused by the perception of people not wanted to own female ringnecks. I find many people simply believe they are too aggressive, do not talk, and make horrible pets. Yet I have two female ringnecks who are simply the best parrots I have ever owned. Their love for me is unconditional and they are gentile.

I think one of the most disturbing things about the pet-parrot-market is what happens to handfed parrots who do not meet their owner’s expectations. These birds have been imprinted to have more human characteristics and suffer when the owner decides to give the bird up. Most will never adapt to other birds and must live out a lonely life simply because they do not perceive themselves as birds—a handfed parrot is a freak of nature when placed with their own kind. I have several that I have tried to integrate with their aviary mates—yet I find them always struggling. Makes me really sad that people don’t take responsibility for something they did. For some reason, we humans believe all living things are disposable—especially if we don’t see the consequences.

Ringnecks are not easy parrots to tame. It takes a lot of work but once the connection has been established—the joy these parrots exude is infinite. My parrots are my life and I love them so much. They truly are a gift and I am honored they have even let me connect with them.

Best Wishes,

IMRAN-C

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ellieelectrons
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Re: why is it?

Post by ellieelectrons » Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:37 am

I am guilty of posting YouTube vids without explaining how hard it has been to train them. Although my birds can do quite a few behaviors that I have taught them eg. Turn around, go back to their cage on command, play basketball, etc. I also struggle with aspects of our relationship. Both of our birds were hand raised which makes the taming process easier but it doesn't make it foolproof. We still have problems with occasional biting, extreme fear of new people and although they know how to step up, go back to their cage, they won't always do it when I want them too.

So, I just wanted to let you know that most IRN owners struggle with aspects of their relationship with their bird.

On petting, I used a lot of positive reinforcement with our oldest bird and she now loves petting and tells us when she wants it. Our younger bird has never liked it and after reading an article by the Parrot Society, I decided not to force it on him. I am happy to interact with him in other ways. The article explained that for many birds petting is not pleasurable and the author believed that parrot owners should be content to not pat their birds. I wish I could remember more about the article as it explained clearly their rationale for their position. If I find it I will post more.

I like what you've written in this thread and am wondering if it would be a useful 'sticky' thread for the forum?

Ellie.

Ellie.
Last edited by ellieelectrons on Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ringneck
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Re: why is it?

Post by ringneck » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:04 pm

great idea! just made it sticky! :wink: I think many people should read this thread! :wink:

Best Wishes,

IMRAN-C

ShirleyBird
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Re: why is it?

Post by ShirleyBird » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:46 am

Thank you for your knowledge! I pray others will read while deciding if ringnecks are the correct match for their lifestyles. I truly believe education is the key to anything ....including pets. I also think reading information is not enough! You can read every piece of info out there and still be unprepared for the characteristics your bird might display ( being everyone is different and will react so). So for some it is helpful to discuss issues with others whom are knowledgeable. I think this forum is great for that!

It also bothers me who many people see animals of any kind as disposable or replaceable. They are living creatures and should be treated with respect. Birds are not domestic animals( like cats and dogs) and shouldn't be expected to stop showing wild tendencies, for our enjoyment. As far as human kind goes that's a novel of its own. Its just comforting knowing there are still great people in the world who genuinely care for all God's Creatures. Thanks again for knowledge and sharing.
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ShirleyBird
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Re: why is it?

Post by ShirleyBird » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:52 am

[quote="ellieelectrons"]I am guilty of posting YouTube vids without explaining how hard it has been to train them. Although my birds can do quite a few behaviors that I have taught the. Eg. Turn around, go back to their cage on command, play basketball, etc. I also struggle with aspects of our relationship. Both of our birds were hand raised which makes the taming process easier but it doesn't make it foolproof. We still have problems with occasional biting, extreme fear of new people and although they know how to step up, go back to their cage, they won't always do it when I want them too.

I like what you've written in this thread and am wondering if it would be a useful 'sticky' thread for the forum?

Ellie.

Thank you for sharing and it sounds like you've spent a lot of time caring for your birds. They sound AMAZING! Thanks for the complement regarding thread.
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Lauren
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Re: why is it?

Post by Lauren » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:07 pm

I am so glad someone has said this!!! this is exactly my thoughts. When I home my chicks I tell new owners the honest truth, no sugar coating!! I write essays on the negatives of owning a ringneck and tell them every chance i can how hard it can be! i want everyone to know that bringing a new bird home is no walk in the park! Even after years, they can still not be what we imagined or what we see on youtube! I always get questions like 'will it talk?' 'will it bite?' 'is it loud?'. People need to be educated!

Personally, my male is 11 years old, hand raised. I got him when i was 15 (do the math on how old i am lol) I was very nieve and so was my parents who got him for me. I wish I had of given him a better 1st few years but i was young and niave! Now 11 years on, he still doesnt talk (just mumble jumbled screetchy sounds that only i can understand what hes trying to say), he still bites on occasion and it freakin hurts! he draws blood when he does, hes moody and unpredictable at times. But he is such a delite to have in my life!! Hes quirky and always surprises me even today and he shows his love in other ways. My female had a screeching ''problem'' and never let me pet her. She was an avairy baby but she loved having showers with me, sitting on my shoulder, shareing my food. I say 'problem' because it wasnt her problem at all but my partners, she didnt like him and he would yell back being a 'non bird person'. I did everything I was taught to after educating myself when my male was well into his adulthood. I love them for who they are and I love that they are being what they are, birds.

Sadly I recently had to give my female up, not by my choice, if i had a choice she'd still be here with me. It was the hardest decision Ive ever had to make! People around me say 'she was wild' 'she was evil' 'she was difficult'.. if only they could see what i saw in her! I loved everything about her. I didnt like that uneducated people around me hated her so much.
"Jibby aka Gilbert" Indian Ringneck 13 years "Charlie" Rex Rabbit 1 year

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Lauren
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Re: why is it?

Post by Lauren » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:13 pm

Oh I agree with everything everyone has said here. Nice topic and replies! :D
"Jibby aka Gilbert" Indian Ringneck 13 years "Charlie" Rex Rabbit 1 year

ShirleyBird
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Re: why is it?

Post by ShirleyBird » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:49 pm

[quote="Lauren"]Oh I agree with everything everyone has said here. Nice topic and replies! :D[/quote]

I'm sorry abt your bird, I can tell how much you cared for her...it must have been hard for you..Thx for giving me hope that in the next 11 yrs, I can still get bit..lol. When my son played baseball for the first yr, he got hit in the eye and picture day was the following day.I told him he shouldn't be embarrassed of his pictures but be happy because that's a memory ...now when I get bit( and she does leave scars) he says " mom, your should be happy, its a memory "...
So I have lots of "memories" already. Lol. thx for sharing!
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stv217
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Re: why is it?

Post by stv217 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:44 am

I've owned two ringnecks and found them to be very tame and friendly. There are two things that I don't believe people account for.

First, bluffing in ringnecks is probably the most notorious puberty stage of any pet bird species save for the larger cockatoos. Once a ringneck starts acting out like this, communication breaks down with the owner and a downward siral begins. It takes alot of work to keep things going so once bluffing ends, the bird will be back to its sweet loveable self.

Secondly, many people believe patience on its own will win the bird over. I find this to be a fallacy. Birds have triggers that activate years of instinct. In he end, instinct will always trump training. An owner should use training to shape behaviors of the bird, so that it can express its instincts in ways that work with the owner.

For instance, Ace used to bite my face when he was scared of something and wanted away, or if he really wanted a treat or toy I was holding. These bites didn't draw blood but they were damn annoying. It is an instinctual behavior though to bite a flockmate when danger is present. So I taught Ace to give me kisses when he wants something. Now when he wants something or is scared, he presses his beak to my face instead if biting.

Now as far as petting goes, ringnecks are not known to be cuddly. People should have realistic expectations. Ace only lets me pet him at certain times, and he'll indicate this by fluffing up his feathers. Ace will actively seek out my roommate for petting though, and goes crazy for it. I've just had to learn accept it.

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Lauren
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Re: why is it?

Post by Lauren » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:49 am

Great reply stv217.. agree with every point.. however patience is still very important.. but your right about it not being the only thing we need. My 11yo 'kisses' for treats too.. he too presses his beak on my cheek or lips instead of biting like he used to. He will only ever bite when hes protecting a nest and his (no longer with us) female. He never bites without a good reason. I should of mentioned this in my earlier post.
"Jibby aka Gilbert" Indian Ringneck 13 years "Charlie" Rex Rabbit 1 year

anabelster
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Re: why is it?

Post by anabelster » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:59 pm

I lucked out with our Yoshi. He is the sweetest thing on earth. He doesn't like to be touched with hands, but I think it's because he's traumatized from his feathers being cliped. He still loves to be up on my shoulders and will climb up on my finger to get there. He nibbles on my ear and will put his beak on my cheek and just stay (kinda like what the dragon from "How to Train Your Dragon" does when he puts his face to the boys hand : p) I think he likes the warmth. When he feels ignored he will get really close to my face and just stare or just talk until I finally pay attention. He will take my shoulder over food.

The owners I got him from actually told me that these birds don't like to be touched. So what I expected was much less than what I've gotten as far as him being affectionate and sweet and playful. What I didn't expect was the ginormous mess that I have to vaccum twice a day and the poop all over his cage! Recently he destroyed a new pair of shoes and all the buttons on the phones and remotes, sooo didn't expect that, either. From now on when we leave I'll have to leave him in his cage.

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ellieelectrons
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Re: why is it?

Post by ellieelectrons » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:20 pm

Sounds like Yoshi is just wonderful!
anabelster wrote: From now on when we leave I'll have to leave him in his cage.
I never leave mine out when we are not home as I'm scared they will chew through electrical cables or something like that!

Ellie.

Chicklet
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Re: why is it?

Post by Chicklet » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:36 am

I would guess that most of the parrots (all varieties) featured in videos doing tricks and who are extremely tame were hand raised by their owners. That bond that develops when you hand feed your fiddo is strong. I am glad that I learned this many years ago when I bought a breeding pair of cockatiels just to get them out of a bad home. The male was downright mean and plucked himself and his mate. The female would allow me to handle her after she was out of the cage but only when she felt like it. Their first baby the male started plucking the second feathers started to come in. I had no choice but to hand feed even though I was clueless. I got books and set out to hand raise Plucky. I never had to clip his wings and he was allowed to fly around supervised. His favorite place was on top of my head. He said a few things and was extremely tame with everyone, never bit, nibbled the ear of whomever's shoulder he happened to land on. He played fetch, gave kisses and was the most lovable little guy. The reason for that is that he was socialized for hours a day while our family raised him, played with him and he even ate at the table with us, with a dish on his own placemat. He was even kind of potty trained where he usually went back to his cage to do his business.

The younger the baby is and the more mothering you do the easier it will be to tame and train. Our family just got Rikku this last Saturday morning. Rikku is roughly a month old and on four hand feelings a day. She or he is extremely tame already and loves to snuggle and give kisses. We spend at least four to five hours a day on socializing currently.

When all is said and done, you will receive back the equivalent of what you invest in time and effort. The earlier you can begin that investment the earlier you will see the payoff. As many have mentioned...trust is the most important component. A fiddo who trusts it's human will be able to be trained and tamed and one who doesn't will have to gain that trust first.

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Re: why is it?

Post by sanjays mummi » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:59 am

Wow, what a fascinating read, and so many likeminded folk. I have viewed the youtube videos and hugely entertaining they are. But i want my wee sanjay to do things on his terms, and take all the time he needs. I do'nt see the need for cuddling unless it is something he asks for. We were dog people for over thirty years and never subscribed to the "furry children" theory. Sanjay is what he is and we love him for what he is, a capricious, fickle and highly amusing companion.

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InTheAir
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Re: why is it?

Post by InTheAir » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:54 pm

What a great thread!

It should be compulsory reading for new owners.

We have found dedicating hours to researching all aspects of parrot care, dropping all expectations we have of our bird, and dedicating hours every day to keep an eye on him out of the cage and being there when he wants to play or nap on us was all it took for us to be happy with our bird ;p

I'd like to add that handraising the irn yourself is not necessary to form a bond, and in a lot of cases it is best left to a professional.
We got our irn at 3 months old (weaned, of course) and he has happily made us his flock. He is very tame, he will sit on strangers, but shows a much stronger preference for us.
I'm sure there are people out there who have got their birds older then we did and still formed a strong bond with them.

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ellieelectrons
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Re: why is it?

Post by ellieelectrons » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:52 pm

I'll add that we didn't handraise our guys either... and in some countries it is illegal for birds to be sold unweaned (Australia being one of them). I don't think this is necessary for a bird to form an appropriate bond with you. You also don't want a bird that sees you as its mate (a pair bond) as this can make it hyper protective of you and not tolerant of others and introduce other inappropriate behaviours.
sanjays mummi wrote:I do'nt see the need for cuddling unless it is something he asks for. We were dog people for over thirty years and never subscribed to the "furry children" theory. Sanjay is what he is and we love him for what he is, a capricious, fickle and highly amusing companion.
The recent parrot workshop I went to backs up your ideas. They said that too much cuddling of your bird can bring about an inappropriate pair bond between the human and the bird.

Ellie.

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InTheAir
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Re: why is it?

Post by InTheAir » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:41 pm

I agree with the patting also, tame as our bird is we only give him scratches around the head.
The best bond to have with a parrot is as a flock mate.

Having read quite a lot on the subject of inappropriate bonds between parrots and humans, I do think it is very wise to learn how to avoid giving inappropriate signals to your bird.
It surprises me to hear, otherwise rational, people saying that it is a good thing to keep a bird in a state of sexual frustration (ie: inappropriate bonding to a human). I don't think that is doing the bird a kindness.

There is a lot of information out there on this subject, and I highly recommend anyone who hasn't give the subject much thought to look into it.

After all, your ringneck is a best friend and, like all good friendships human our canine or whatever, the relationship has boundaries that both parties understand to allow it to flourish.

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Re: why is it?

Post by stewartsma » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:06 am

Each bird owners or potential bird owner should look at a parrot with the expectation that they are getting a 3 year old child. You have to teach them to trust you and you have to learn that they will throw tantrums. They have a keen memory from the start(so they wont be forgetting what happened the first night you brought them home). I feel all birds have the tendancy to become little monsters if they are not trained properly. You must go slow and gain a birds trust allow them to calm down in their new environment before inflicting training sessions on them. Buikd a trust and a bond.

Stewart and I began building a bond soon after he arrived at work. Je would only come out for me and ride around on my shoulder. After he trusted me he would allow others to pick him up but I still had to be the one to take him out. Slowly he allowed me to begin petting him(even so its on his say) he only gets them on top of his head and the back of his neck(which he seems to enjoy he makes soft noises and closes his eyes).

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Re: why is it?

Post by charlieIRN » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:27 am

i noticed my girl has become more aggressive since last 2 weeks. She never bites me until 2 weeks before. she seems healthy but eats less (or may be i think so). I am going to college and returns home by 6 pm but my mom takes care of her during my absence. I spend time with her after I return from college. is she angry on me for not spending much time as i used to do ? she doesn't eat seeds, she takes it from my hand, make it into pieces, spits/ throws it (doesn't eat), then again takes another seed from my hand.

P.s: i have her for 7 months(i got her when she was 1 yr or so from a pet store) and since she is not much tame, i couldn't let her out of cage [ she don't know how to come out of cage it seems as i tried to make her come out of it, but she refuses]. she is molting now.

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Redzone
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Re: why is it?

Post by Redzone » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:24 pm

They do tend to get a bit short tempered/feisty when they are molting!

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Kimma
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Re: why is it?

Post by Kimma » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:25 pm

This is an awesome thread. It hasn't put me off getting my IRN, but it's helping me to have reasonable expectations.

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Donovan
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Re: why is it?

Post by Donovan » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:54 am

I wasn't told much about IRNs before getting mine. I was told what kind of bird he was because I'd never seen one before. I was told he was about 6 months old and that it would take another 6 months or so to know what sex he was.

I went home, did some quick research and an hour or two later I went back to rescue my bird from the ratty little pet shop that smelled like cat urine.

Anyway I would say my bird has been fairly average. He's not a talker although he tries a little, and I'm not allowed to touch him. Otherwise he hangs with me on my shoulder. Or finger. When he's in 'sweet' mode he'll touch my nose with his beak. The only touching i'm allowed to do is a single fingertip to the beak and that's it.

So I haven't gotten the most amazing bird but he's not the nightmare I've read about, so I think I'm good to go. Best part is playing fetch though which I'll post up a video of one day with full instructions (as I see them) on how to teach your bird this activity.

SunniDai
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:49 pm
Location: Washington state, USA

Re: why is it?

Post by SunniDai » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:40 pm

When I got Skyelar, I had actually gone to pick out a sun conure. When the owner let the birdies out of their cage, Skyelar climbed up my sleeve to my shoulder. Three times. So I asked the owner about this little blue bird (had never even heard of a ringneck before) and was told a little about ringnecks. I figured since he sought me out, he must be the one I was taking home. So I took him home and got educated. Quickly. I instantly did some research and found this site and did LOTS of reading. Luckily, his bluffing stage didn't last terribly long.
Now, three years later, we have three new ones and my life will never be the same again. And I'm okay with that. I adore my three little crabby, screamy brats :)
~Dana

Image

warbuckle
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:09 am

Re: why is it?

Post by warbuckle » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:13 am

Well folks,

I got lucky, lol. Ringer beds down at 830-9pm nightly and wakes up with 2-3 Good morning screeches at about 8-830pm. We may get 1/2 a dozen more screams throughout the day, but other then that a "fairly" quiet bird who talks his beak off. He loves to perch on us, and does not like to step-up and be put back on his cage, so now we just say "cage" do a couple of bobs and he flies back to his cage. He is more or less indifferent to my budgies and lovebirds and they are slowly coming out from underneath their paper to watch him....we did have 1 evening where he seemed a bit off and was doing the "screech" every 30 secs, we tried to ignore those and praise any words or quieter sounds with a treat, will take a bit of time. He eats pellets / seed mix and a ton of fruit, apples, oranges, kiwi, banana, melon, green beans, carrots, a tot of shredded chicken once a week etc.........the moult will be interesting, hopefully it will not happen when my other 2 flocks are moulting......lol, or it will be a noisy household.

regards

Will

SkyeBerry
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:14 am
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: why is it?

Post by SkyeBerry » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:15 am

WOW! I am so glad I found not only this forum but this thread. I have had my guy for about 4 yrs and purchased him as a weaned baby. Like SunniDai, I was investigating a sun conure after reading about that species. While at the breeder's however, I became fascinated with 'Sunny's' blue buddy who was a month younger. They were each the last of their clutch, so the breeder put them together for company. I went home and started researching ringnecks. (Unfortunately, found an abandoned IRN site but not this one???) After a month and more visits, I came home with two birds. :D I have had a lot of successful years of owning and training dogs, cats, horses, lovebirds etc and I did not expect a move to parrots to be a piece of cake but I must admit lately I have been concerned. More for Skye's happiness though versus him not being talkative enough or affectionate etc. In fact, Skye has a pretty healthy vocab (I think???) ~75 words right now. I can get him in/out of the cage, he perches on my arm & shoulder, is inquisitive and appears to want my time & attention. He is fully feathered and I seem to be his preferred perch. Typing all this, after reading about so many other 'horror' stories and cries for 'HELP!' I almost wonder why I am concerned. But I am.

I have had a rather unique life & don't worry I am not going to get into it except to say on more than one occasion I have done some really deep sole searching. I am someone who believes that part of societies' problems come from a lack of accountability. Hence, a lot of abandoned animals - birds & IRNs included. I consider myself very fortunate to have met a particular horse trainer when I was 14yrs old. He did not teach me to ride, he taught me to train...Actually, what he taught me was how to communicate with a horse and set that horse up so he understood what I wanted. There was no 'horse breaking' involved. His philosophy was that 90% of the time if the horse did not do what you wanted, it was your 'fault.' The other 10% of the time, the fault belonged to the person/s who had the horse before you. At the time, although my young head would not have formulated that thought on its own, that is how I felt. I had previously trained my own dog and had my horse from 8months. I had already taught myself to ride and trained him to a saddle. We successfully rode together. I just knew we could do more. And we did, with this man's assistance.

I believe this is where my frustration stems. Finding that person/source of 'mentorship' for Skye and I. That and the fact that unfortunately since purchasing my two birds I have been plagued with medical issues that have often left me bedridden. There is just so much I wish I could have done with the birds before this point and I just do not want to screw it up. Getting back to the sole searching, I am positive it is not ego. I just love these guys so much. I really believe that if you take on an animal, that life - food, shelter, emotional development, enrichment,etc - is your responsibility and it is not disposable or something you can ignore in a cage or pass on as a problem to someone else. [note: I am aware there are extraordinary circumstances, where the bird needs a new home.]

In my gut, I just know things could be better and should be. In the last few days, it has occurred to me that the problem is in part, a lack of confidence on my part. I have realized that with dogs, cats, horses (in my case), learning to drive the car etc, I and most people acquire a certain amount of knowledge just by existing in the world. You see these things around you. You see them on tv being interacted with. You see how others interact with them and how they react back on almost a daily basis. Yes, I have seen pictures of parrots. Likely there has been a bird or two in a movie. I have even seen a parrot show at an aquarium. I have read books and lots of stuff on the internet. Watched a lot of U-tube. (And have recently found stuff that will be helpful, including this site. :) ) But I now realize, that without that accumulation of 'peripheral' knowledge over years of life, I should have spent more time at various breeders with more babies, at more rescues, asked some different questions, talked to more people etc. I knew IRN's were not considered a good first parrot. I should have asked people "why?" "What do you wish you knew but did not?" "Where can people go for qualified help?" "Is there someone who helps people train their parrots?" etc I had had lovebirds for 12 yrs - often getting other peoples problems - an trust me hormonal female lovebirds are a real experience most want to avoid - but I have done well with these. And as I talked to parrot people, everyone focused on the sun conure. "Don't get one." "You'll love it, but hate it!" "Very few people can stand them..." FYI - my conure is great. Not perfect but I don't worry about him/her. I do not want to ever think about life without Sunny. NO ONE I spoke to in person had any warnings about IRNs and their specific behaviours and sensitives. I wish I could locate more info on this and if anyone has a book to recommend PLEASE do so. The best information I have come up with, and this has also been recent, is reading up about African Greys and their temperament.

Anyway, I guess I have purged enough. Sorry, but it feels good and I think someone reading this and considering an IRN may find this helpful. I know it would have encouraged me to do some extra work. One thing I would like to add - In my case, I do not think the web videos led me to believe parrots would be easy. I have done enough training of animals from scratch and working on problem animals that came to me to know there is always a lot of 'ground work' and practice before anything looks easy. My concern is how to get there. So many birds get messed up by good intentions and I do not want to make those mistakes. And there seems to be a lot of incomplete, sometimes wrong information, regarding parrots in general. And in the meantime, Skye continues to develop and look to me for guidance as to how he is to interact in a world he did not evolve for.
Mary

lpmurdock831
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:35 am

Re: why is it?

Post by lpmurdock831 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:56 pm

It has been mentioned in earlier posts on this topic, but I also think the reason many people may find training an IRN difficult is a matter of "perspective" and "expectations".
People, especially those who may be "stepping up" from an "easier-to-tame" species like a budgie or a cockatiel, need to be aware that... how shall I say this... there seems to be a lot less you can "change" about an IRN's initial opinion of you, or at least that it takes very VERY much longer to get to the same point in training.

I know my own expectations were thrown for a loop when I discovered that Snow hates sitting on hands. It was more than that he's just scared of them - after about 6 months of 2-hour-a-day training, he would happily sit near one next to him on the perch, would even let me (sometimes) stroke his feet, and has now (1yr+) begun to take treats from me through the cage bars - but asking him to step up onto a fist/arm/finger has always resulted in a flurry of feathers and ear-piercing "indignant" squawks. When i first found out, I was gutted to think my hopes of proudly carrying him around the house on my arm were dashed, and I had daytime nightmares of him being locked in a cage most of the time because I couldn't control him when I needed to (eg: going to work).
I must have struggled with these kinds of thoughts for about a week before finally letting go of the idea of carrying him around on my arm. I've NEVER had to alter my expectations so drastically before, and if I'm feeling dramatic I might even say it tested who I was as a person. Once I did let go of those silly pre-conceived notions, though, it freed me up to find another solution that works much better for us both: stick training! Snow now happily jumps onto his favorite stick - so happily, in fact, he'll even do it for near-strangers - and it's even allowed us to continue working on trying to get him "okay" with hands.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think it's really that they're harder to train, more that they require a different mindset.
It's not so much as YOU training THEM, but THEM training YOU in new ways of thinking.

MissK
Posts: 3006
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: why is it?

Post by MissK » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:24 pm

I've read this thread before and now I think I might be ready to add my comment. If I had but one word of advice to the Ringneck keeper, that word would be "Respect". I do see a lot of respect in this thread. It's a big concept, though, sneaking quite a lot under the umbrella of seven little letters.

When we respect someone, we do them the courtesy of taking them as they are. We judge them against themselves and find them with merit. We would still respect them in a crowd of a thousand or just on their own. We do not insult their abilities; nor do we ask for what they cannot do. We admire them, in the sense that we regard their capabilities and qualities with some sense of positive awe. We identify in them their own accomplishment, intrinsic power, and worth. We identify, also, their differences from ourselves, their weaknesses, and shortcomings, and we do not allow these to hamper our respect. We are sincere in our handling of the relationship.

When we respect someone, we want to know them fully. We want to know where they came from, their history, their culture, their influences. We want to understand their fears, desires, and motivations. We want to know their essential nature and their needs - what makes them tick, what they need to take in, as well as what they need to let out. We speculate on their future, and we seek to find the place of our own being in relation to theirs, to know in what ways we can be a positive agent in their life, to learn what we must learn in order to be relevant.

When we respect someone, we care about them. We promote their well-being. We have a concern in how the world will influence them, whether they will experience success or failure in days to come. We are careful in our interactions, and we pay attention to the effects of our deeds. We frequently like or love the one we respect, but sometimes we do not. Regardless, we honour the relationship between us. We welcome opportunity to improve it, and sometimes we must recognize when it would be better ended, or never begun, for the good of both parties.

I am sure that everyone reading this will be able to identify more hallmarks and responsibilities of respect. It is my sincere desire that everyone keeping, or planning to keep, an animal of any kind will respect that animal to the fullest degree. It is my belief that in respect the most essential stone in the foundation of any relationship is laid, and the best step is taken to heal a relationship in distress.
-MissK

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