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Clipping Wings Question

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hisandy
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Clipping Wings Question

Post by hisandy » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:06 pm

Since my bird in out and about with me throughout the day. I want to keep his wings clipped. How often should I clip them? "He" is about 5 months old.

Sandy

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smallworld
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by smallworld » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:15 pm

Hi Sandy,

You should not keep his wings clipped. I normally wing clip for taming and training purposes and generally do that till their first molt, when they get their flight feathers back.

Its healthy and good for a bird to fly. All its muscle groups are active, obesity is reduced and generally the bird is less proned to depression. So if you're going to clip it, clip it for a season.

Birds are meant to fly and I'm not being sarcastic but if you really dont want your bird to fly for the rest of its life, then its not really a pet for you. You're better of with a chicken or a dog. Those animals are not meant to fly and not being able to fly does them no harm.

hisandy
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by hisandy » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:57 pm

Thank you for the post! Lots of food for thought!!!

Lolly
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by Lolly » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:48 pm

I clip all my ringnecks and lorys usually 1 every 6 to 8 months .
maybe even longer ,once clipped they cant have full flight and dont usually try .
Breeding season I will keep full flight(if they are nesting) and I would not clip under a year old .
I only clip very little ,so i can be faster then them :-) .

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smallworld
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by smallworld » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:05 am

I really hope you didnt take it the wrong way. Its just that alot of people mean well but they dont realize the end effect of what they're doing on their pet.

If you want a healthy animal that can live with you for decades, then good health is a key player. So yeah, you wouldnt want to clip its wings, unless you really have to, so you can tame it.

take care and good luck

julie
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by julie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:42 am

Its a matter of personal opinion whether you want to clip regularly or have them fully flighted.
if he is only 5 months I would wait till he has fully learnt how to fly properly before clipping. You should be able to tell when they need clipping again because you will see them growing back.

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smallworld
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by smallworld » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:01 am

Of course its a matter of opinion if you want it clipped or not. But clipping the wings of the bird suits the convenience of the owner and pays no regard to the health of the bird! Especially when you want to clip the wings over and over again. By the way in some European nations its considered illegal to permanently render a bird flightless. It is being considered if clipping the wing routinely and rendering the bird flightless year after year fits into this category. They're doing that to protect the animals.

Needless to say, a bird that hasnt flown in some years not only shows atrophy of the pectoral muscles but also degeneration of the air sacs.

hisandy
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by hisandy » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:38 am

Wonderful exchange of thoughts and ideas! Thank you everyone!!

Lolly
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by Lolly » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:37 pm

I dont agree with many things being said here about clipping !
but it is all a matter of opinion!
no proven facts on your behalf ....

The question was basically how often and what age ...and instead of answering you are off on a tangent because you believe it is wrong ... maybe wrong for you ...and right for others.
maybe you should start your own thread instead of de-railing anothers....just plain rude!

julie
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by julie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:50 pm

How is it only convienience to the owner?
In most circumstances it is safer for the bird to have its wings clipped. People coming in and out with an even slight possibility of not shutting a door in time and the bird escaping to possibly become a meal for another bird. There is many other reasons for clipping.

Smallworld you have your opinion on clipping, thats fine you have said your piece. Others also have their opinion. just because you think something should be done doesnt mean everyone else is wrong.

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smallworld
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by smallworld » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:50 am

Lolly if you do not know how to read dont go name calling and call people dumb. You're just illiterate and maybe you should read more before you blast your opinion. The statement reads 'I want to keep his wings clipped. How often should I clip them?'. Now what does that mean?

Secondly I never offer an opinion when a question is asked. What I do offer is my knowledge which happens to be backed by literature, advice from vets, research with friends etc etc. I to this day, do not know a single qualified avian vet, who recommends repeatedly clipping your bird year after year. That is not my opinion.

The fact that it is illegal to permanently render a bird flightless in most parts of Europe and that is being considered if constant wing clipping should be included into the law is not something i conjured up out of thin air. It is a fact.

Furthermore, it was my avian vet, who told me that pectoral muscle degeneration, obesity, depression, atrophy of the air sacs, among other things are a major cause for a shortened pet bird lifespan. To prove it he showed me small exposure xrays between two birds. One clearly showed a smaller chest. Now really, if you want to go on deluding yourselves thinking its alright to render my bird flightless, its only this guys opinion, go ahead. I'm not stopping Sandy from clipping her birds wings. I'm just telling her to factor in everything thats at risk before doing that.

By the way Julie getting eaten by another bird and not closing the door, are all human errors. Which is something we should pay for and not the bird. There are just as many cases where a playful frolicking dog has torn a pet bird apart. The bird was not even able to fly to safety in the right time. So seriously, that argument doesnt stand.

If all that I had said above was just my mere opinion with no basis, it would sound like this: Dont trim your birds wings. How would you like it if I tied your hands together all day, for all your life and made you do silly tricks and gave you treats for them. I would also proceed to say that in my experience with patients who have a paralysis, in a coma or unable to use a certain limb for a number of reasons, the muscle groups related to the affected limb begin to degenerate and deteriorate. Which is why with patients who have coma, a new physiotherapy concept is being applied. In which, the legs are moved and the arms as well. This is supposed to slow down the degeneration. The same applies for a clipped bird who has no use for his wings, other than to stretch. The chest and back muscles, which normally would aid in wing flapping, lift and landing are all unused and hence waste away slowly.

Prove to me that a bird that has been clipped for alot of his life, doesnt show muscle atrophy, nor obesity and live as long as their wild cousins and I will gladly bow out.

Sandy you've read everything from peoples feelings to medical opinions. You decide what you want to do with the little one. Just be fair please. I'm not defending my personal opinion out here, just the welfare of birds.

Lolly
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by Lolly » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:35 am

You are a piece of work! !

hisandy
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by hisandy » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:45 pm

Yikes, sorry to have started this whole thing.

I appreciate an OPEN dialogue with various opinions, I did NOT take anything said by ANYONE personally, just a variety of experiences and perspectives. Being a new IRN owner, I appreciate ALL advice!

Seeing how this started such a negative outcome, I will think twice upon more postings!

Being from Hawaii.....show ALOHA!

Sandy

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smallworld
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by smallworld » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:16 am

Sandy, my apologies for my part in making your question unpleasant. The topic of wing clipping is often considered a hot topic and sometimes does get out of hand. But otherwise I think you've enough information about the question you had. So dont be afraid to ask on this forum. Not everything gets blown out of proportion like this.

Have a good day :)

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kyria
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by kyria » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:32 am

Well I will add in my opinion. I have never found anywhere any proof that clipping wings is detremental to the health of a bird so long as it is carefully considered, done correctly and (great of you for asking) at good stages of the birds life. Wing clipping infact has probably saved more 'captive' birds lives than I could even begin to count.

'Captive' birds in human environments need protection from all kinds of dangers that are not natural to the bird. It also tames down their unrooly behaviour, and puts the owner in control, and after all we are their carers and are meant to be in control of them. The are not free wild birds.

I believe in allowing a baby IRN to fledge, and have quite a few weeks of flight to give them the experience and practice, especially that of landing correctly. When you do clip them down for further taming and training, you MUST clip both wings, this keeps balance and the ablility to glide to the ground evenly not off balance therefore preventing them from crashing onto one side or onto their breast bones. Both wings will then also develop muscles evenly.

Flight feathers will return as they birds go through moults, I allow a few weeks or more (up to you) of free flight once the feathers return and, depending on how well trianed they are, you can either leave them flighted, or if they are unrooly, obnoxious and won't respond to your commands you can clip them down for further training and taming. Giving them periods of flight between clippings I believe keeps their flying skills in and gives them a little break from the norm.

I had to clip my boys down three years in a row, each time leaving them flighted became longer and longer, and now the boys are fully flighted still and have been for almost a whole season, I have had times where they are in a bad mood and will not go home that I have almost decided to clip them, but I have always found ways of coaxing them to do what I want them to, with treats and rewards.

I know that there could be issues with over or under developed wing muscles etc. but I honestly believe if your home and your lifestyle demands a clipped bird all the time, then I would rather that than the bird escape and be eaten by wild creatures or god forbid fly into a ceiling fan that needs to be on all the time (hot countries) or fly into a toilet and drown because little johnny didn't shut the toilet door, fall into a sink full of water that was left after dishes, or a hot pot of boiling water you left on coz you ran to answer the phone.

Honestly .. you know what is best for your situation and I believe the small health issues it might cause far out way what could happen if you did not clip.

we have monitored time out of the cage and we are diligent with it. We only have them out and with us when we are at 100% bird time, and its all about them, playtime with the boys. :-)

This is a wonderful family we have here at Indianringneck.com, and discussion is "great", its how we learn, but please try not to take opinions as personal attacks.

ENJOY ! now go kiss your birds :-)
Angie
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Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. {Pro 10:12}
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God Bless


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pinkdevil
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Re: Clipping Wings Question

Post by pinkdevil » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:57 am

Birds generally moult around once a year but can loose the odd feather in between. A new feather is replaced when a feather is lost either through a moult or removal by force by plucking or pulling.

A bird can still be able to fly as the feathers grow longer. The feathers do not need to be full length for a clipped bird to fly.
I have a bird that I clipped last year, the feathers are around half grown and s/he has been able to fly from me to the curtain rail with a bit of extra effort.

Another option to a full clip is a partial clip. With a partial clip you could just trim a few of the flight feathers, (for eg 2 or 3 feathers off each wing), so the bird can still fly but with much more effort, and without the speed or hight as a fully flighted bird can.
Although, be aware that the bird can still fly and if escaped could be lost.

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