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Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

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Niffarious
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Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Niffarious » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:40 am

Hi all,

A friend of a friend of mine breeds this lovely species both as aviary animals and for pets. She bred a new pair this year, who produced a baby with splayed legs (I do not know the reasons - perhaps the hen is just inexperienced?). After working with a vet one leg was corrected nicely, the other not so much.

I was asked if I'd be interested in taking in the bird. I met her (the bird), she is otherwise wonderful, and I agreed.

Due to the bird's handicap as well as my belief that length is often more important than height, I chose a long flight cage approx 37" long and I think 24" high. The breeder is now concerned that my cage is far, far too short and that 'these birds like to climb'. In my observations, though her birds were healthy and granted a lot of space their cages were rather barren of perches and toys - of course they would climb.

I have worked with (though not bred) parrots for many years, and in my experience, the only time birds crawl all over the sides is when they cages are too tall and they do not have adequate perches/ladders/etc. (Of course there are exceptions to this, but in general...) As well, I of course want to mitigate any potential for injury if the bird should fall.

Although I have had and worked with other species of parrots, indian ringnecks are not one of them - so perhaps I am mistaken in my assessment that the cage is appropriate given the bird's size and handicap. Any advice?

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Skyes_crew
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Skyes_crew » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:50 pm

It all depends on how much time she will be spending in the cage. They do love to climb and as such I have a tree in the house that my birds climb and play on. It is my feeling though that width is a better option than height as they need room to spread their wings. :)
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Niffarious
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Niffarious » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:55 pm

She will likely be out for several hours most evenings when I return home from work. I do have play-gyms and the like for that.

The cage is as deep as it is tall, if not more-so.

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Skyes_crew
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Skyes_crew » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:43 pm

I think your cage size is just fine. The recommended size is 24" X 24". :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Niffarious
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Niffarious » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:56 pm

Thanks, I should hope so. :) I'm quite worried about going any taller given the circumstances.

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Redzone
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Redzone » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:07 am

Hi, your bird sounds like it possibly has the same problem ours had, known as Juvenile Metabolic Syndrome, our avian vet identified this when we took him in, basically some birds born from the last eggs in a clutch can have a calcium deficiency, causing fractures in legs, back etc. Our vet mentioned that had we clipped his wings that we would likely have had behavioural problems with him due to him being in pain trying to move around while it was healing, but as he was flighted, he didn't have to rely on his legs or anyone else to get around. So I would say a flight cage & unclipped wings are the way to go to have a happy bird!

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Niffarious
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Niffarious » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:44 am

Hi Redzone,

That is essentially my plan! She will remain fully flighted. I've always left all of my parrots fully flighted anyway, so this won't be a new thin for me. :)

I am still wary of giving extra height, but I do want her to have room to fly in her cage.

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Skyes_crew
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Skyes_crew » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:49 am

I think most flight cages, at least the ones here in Hawaii, are more wide than tall. Do you have a pic of the cage?? :)
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Niffarious
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Niffarious » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:08 pm

I do not at the moment, but should be able to get one soon (including the bird...hehe).

I was going to show an example, but apparently as a new user that is spam?

If you look up the large double flight cages, it's like one of those - but half the height. So approx. 37" long, 24" high, and about as deep

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Skyes_crew
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Skyes_crew » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:02 pm

Does it look like this??

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Niffarious
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Niffarious » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:16 pm

Very very similar, but black and bit more sturdy

MissK
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by MissK » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:28 pm

Hi. My personal opinion is that, barring emotional unsuitability and unless the bird simply cannot hang onto a perch, no cage is too big. It is also my opinion that a 24" cube cage is too small, unless it is minimally used.

It is true that a bird can climb from side to side, so your cage is not *necessarily* too short. A taller cage would give you greater flexibility in arranging perches and more room for hanging toys. Also, if he's physically able, there is nothing stopping your bird from climbing on the walls and ceiling in the current cage. Consider the (linear) area covered by your perches as compared to the (2 dimensional) area of the cage walls themselves, and you'll see what I mean.

That said, honestly, I'd rather see your bird in a cage at least 36" x 36" x 20" deep. If you save your pennies in a dedicated bird fund, you may be able to purchase a larger cage some time in the future. You may also be able to score one second hand for a bit less money.

My bird enjoys a rather larger cage which is (about) five feet long and nearly three feet tall, and he uses every bit. Not every person will support a very big cage in their house, though many have the space and means to use one even larger. Most of his perches are about 10" long and mounted to the back, so he has an open area for flight towards the front. He usually prefers to walk or climb. I would very much prefer it to be twice as high, but the cost was prohibitive (more than three times as much). I also keep other birds and a pair of aging dogs, so most of the money in my pet fund goes towards animal maintenance. However, in a few years I expect them, sadly, to be gone and the pet fund will become primarily a Bigger Birdie Cage fund. We must all live in the world we have or can reasonably create.

-MissK
-MissK

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Niffarious
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Niffarious » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:28 pm

Thank you for your response, MissK.

I agree with you on size - I prefer to give my birds as much space as possible within reason and safety. I wanted to include a picture of one of my cages to use as an example of what I like to see as a size vs bird ratio, but apparently linking to my own photos is spamming. I can't even upload it, as the 'board attachment quota' has been reached. Why are there such severe restrictions on sharing media for new users? I'm sure after a post or two, it's relatively certain someone is not a spammer.

Anyway, I think what I am going to do is see how bad of an effect this handicap has on this lovely IRN's mobility. If she gets around as well as any other, a larger (taller) cage should not be a problem. If I want something larger that's still long instead of tall, I'm likely going to have to have something custom made.

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InTheAir
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by InTheAir » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:25 pm

I think that cage is the same size as the ones are local bird club use for displays. I've seen ringnecks in them, and it doesn't give the bird room to do much, especially once you add a few toys and the birds tail grows to full size.


I'm with Missk on this one, unless your bird is really really disabled and can't stay on a perch, I think it needs something bigger

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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by MissK » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:24 pm

Niff,

This is the cage Rocky primarily uses now. I'm a huge fan of it and I promote it to everyone. I found it strikes a balance between what I want and what I can manage. It is very easy to maintain, and I love the extra touch of the nest box door high on the side. That is Rocky's personal door. He knows when that one opens he is invited out. Also, when he wants out, he goes to the door, not unlike the dog who scratches at the back door to let me know she has to pee.

My first complaint about this cage is that I would like it to be deeper, front to back. My second complaint is that I would like it higher inside. My third complaint is that the center of the floor, where the optional divider would slide, tends to collect messes. My final complaints is that the 4 feeder doors and 2 nest doors do not latch. I chose to "lock" them on my own, just in case. I cannot think of any other complaints for this cage, and they are not really significant complaints as it is. I bought two, since I plan on a second bird and I wanted matching cages.
http://www.birdscomfort.com/doubleflight_bird_cage.html

This is the cage I likely would have gotten if cost were not a factor. However, it bugs me that the divider door, which I would be removing, doesn't run the full height.
http://www.birdscomfort.com/double_bird_cages.html

I can certainly understand wanting to design and DIY your own cage. I just wanted you to have a chance to see what I think are a pair of viable options.

-MissK
-MissK

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Skyes_crew
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:16 pm

The first cage you have there MissK is one that I've been looking at. Is it as sturdy as it looks?
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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MissK
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by MissK » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:22 am

I would say it is perfectly sturdy if you use it for the intended purpose and do not house any of the ridiculously large and strong-beaked birds (bigger macaws or cockatoos) who might snack on it. There is nothing a Ringneck could do to hurt it, expect possibly chip the finish if there were a longstanding grudge involved and maybe a chip to start from. :D I think it is a fabulous upper mid grade cage at a rock bottom price. I have plans to hang a rather large sheet of lightweight plexiglass on the back, as I did for the canaries, and I don't expect any problem with that.

The shelf below could stand some reinforcement if you are storing something heavy, especially if weight is not distributed. I have one side basically filled with newspaper (for changing the cages) and for that I placed a sheet of lightweight plywood so it rests on the actual frame, not the wires. That many papers are pretty heavy. Before that I felt the wire would deflect and get stuck that way. My "tidy" soul would have been saddened, so I reinforced it to prevent sagging. I also keep extra large mason jars of bird food there, towards the center, and I feel the collection of them is too heavy for comfort as well if they were not in the center where the support is.

I did NOT test it, but I imagine the top would do the same if you tried to store heavier things on top. I have kept a smaller cage on top with no trouble, and the aquarium light fixture causes no problem. I frequently leave odds and ends up there and no troubles yet.

It is quite sturdy enough to support itself and roll around without deflection. I can hang onto the top edge for support when I lean inside for wiping, no trouble, and I'm heavier than I like to say.

One quite nice feature is that it screws together in such a way no bits are available for birdie to unscrew. Rocky cannot reach the latch handles to do any mischief. I chose to place a strip of orange sticker under the latch handle so it will show only when the latch is open, to reduce the chance of my leaving it not secure.

In wire weight, it is much sturdier and thicker than my ultra-budget canary cages. Canaries are hardly known for testing their cages, so that is quite reasonable. It is lightweight compared to my dog crates. It is more than sturdy enough for all my many bolt-on perches, both half and full length, even the stupidly thick grapevine perch. His bath is a large stainless dog bowl, no problems even when it is filled halfway with water. Please note that if I were to bolt on a perch and then seriously try to move it, I would be able to lever the wires out of line. I did have a perch bolted on the outside and walked into it (doh!) which is how I know. I just bent it back the other way to fix, but I think I was lucky.

It is unbelievable easy to clean, except in the bit I mentioned at the center floor, and where the side bottom edges meet the stand. I was surprised to see the stand is actually part of the cage - cannot be removed without disassembling the cage - and part of the structural reinforcement. The pans have not gotten any damage from my hauling them into the shower, though I am pretty rough on my things. It still looks brand new after a year. When I first saw it I had hopes of joining a pair for an extra deep cage, but my seller candidly told me it could not be done, and that was true. I bought my second cage about 6 months after the first because the colour was being discontinued and, though it is still in the box, I am overjoyed to have it waiting for the day a second bird may come. Due to the exceptionally great deal I got on my first cage, and the fact shipping was local, the second cage came up a total of nearly $100 more than the first, and I didn't even care.

As you can tell, I am overall very satisfied with the cage. If you have any specific tests you would like me to perform and evaluate for you, you have only to ask.

-MissK
-MissK

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ellieelectrons
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by ellieelectrons » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:19 am

Just wanted to give you some more information on posting photos. See this link for more information:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15060

The owner of the forum (Imran) implemented these controls when we were getting pornographic images posted to the forum. These have stopped (so far) since implementing these controls. There are children who use this forum, so it was deemed this was an important measure. Therefore, new users cannot post images or links until they have posted a certain number of posts and been a member for a minimum time period. It does make it hard for new users, and I am sorry about that.

Also, when you are able to post pictures, you can only post them by uploading them to your own photo sharing site (eg. flickr, photobucket) and then linking to them.

I hope that helps. Sorry for the frustration.

Ellie.

jmlw7
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by jmlw7 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:15 am

MissK wrote:Niff,

This is the cage Rocky primarily uses now. I'm a huge fan of it and I promote it to everyone. I found it strikes a balance between what I want and what I can manage. It is very easy to maintain, and I love the extra touch of the nest box door high on the side. That is Rocky's personal door. He knows when that one opens he is invited out. Also, when he wants out, he goes to the door, not unlike the dog who scratches at the back door to let me know she has to pee.

My first complaint about this cage is that I would like it to be deeper, front to back. My second complaint is that I would like it higher inside. My third complaint is that the center of the floor, where the optional divider would slide, tends to collect messes. My final complaints is that the 4 feeder doors and 2 nest doors do not latch. I chose to "lock" them on my own, just in case. I cannot think of any other complaints for this cage, and they are not really significant complaints as it is. I bought two, since I plan on a second bird and I wanted matching cages.
http://www.birdscomfort.com/doubleflight_bird_cage.html

This is the cage I likely would have gotten if cost were not a factor. However, it bugs me that the divider door, which I would be removing, doesn't run the full height.
http://www.birdscomfort.com/double_bird_cages.html

I can certainly understand wanting to design and DIY your own cage. I just wanted you to have a chance to see what I think are a pair of viable options.

-MissK
Miss K - do you have the cage in the first link you posted as a double flight cage? Meaning the "two" cages are really one big cage for Rocky? And if so, you mention the center has an optional divider so it's essentially one huge massive cage? If so, thats amazing! We definitely dont have room for something that large/wide but if that cage is really used as one big one (same for the giant cage on the second link), its definitely something to consider whenever we move out of our apartment and get a house. Maybe if its that huge we really wouldnt feel bad about leaving Remy in her cage all day while we are at work!

Do you have a pic of your cage setup? Id love to see how its arranged for Rocky. I'm always open to new and better ideas than what I have now as although the cage we have we consider is new and fairly big, it's size is probably only half of the double flight cage you have.

MissK
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by MissK » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:46 am

Absolutely, he uses it without the divider. That's why I selected that model, for the width. The divider was helpful in the early days, before we had a relationship, for doing cage maintenance and stepping him up to the large size. He had been in what I consider a travel size cage before I got him, and I know sometimes too much space all at once can be intimidating. But Rocky proved up to the challenge!

I know folks want me to put up pictures, but I'm not really a techno kid, and I have perpetually lost my camera. Eventually I will. :oops:

I have to say that when I decided to get the parrot I already had a history of keeping canaries in the "biggest cage possible". Their cages are only 30" wide as I couldn't fit the 36" ones on my antique washstand I use to hold them. I had, in my living room, a pair of gorgeous china cabinets with all my pretty treasures, and I loved them. When the bird cage came it was clear to see they had to go. I grumbled about it, but I said to myself "Either you're doing this parrot thing or else you aren't," so I sold them to make room. No regrets. Once you get over the surprise of seeing such a big cage in the house, you forget how big it is. It's mostly air anyway.

-MissK
-MissK

jmlw7
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by jmlw7 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:38 am

MissK wrote: I know folks want me to put up pictures, but I'm not really a techno kid, and I have perpetually lost my camera. Eventually I will. :oops:
thats amazing. My fiance and I decided when its time to get a house, if Remy doesnt have a birdie room she can roam free all day/night long, we will get her the bigger double giant cage and take out the divider. Thats really an amazing size and its like a little bird room in itself!

I will always be here awaiting pics from you :D cage, foraging ideas and Rocky! ur ideas are too good to not photograph

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Skyes_crew
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Re: Cage size appropriate for Ringneck with splayed leg

Post by Skyes_crew » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:51 am


I will always be here awaiting pics from you :D cage, foraging ideas and Rocky! ur ideas are too good to not photograph
I agree...I think we need to pool our resources and get MissK a weekend at a tech junkie camp lol :lol: I'm still waiting for the plexiglass pics :wink:
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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