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Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Green?

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sheyd
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Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Green?

Post by sheyd » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:17 pm

Hi all, Hope the season is treating you all well :D



Does anyone have any of the above chicks in the age bracket of 3-5 weeks for me to compare my chick to?

Any thoughts on this chick? (3 weeks, 5 days.)
Image

Image

Image

Thanks

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Ring0Neck
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by Ring0Neck » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:51 pm

If i can read your pics correctly i'd say Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Green
give it a bit more time to be sure
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madas
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by madas » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:11 am

If these (Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Green) are the odds then i would vote for the last option violet(sf) dark(sf) green.

for comparison a oliv pos. violet(sf) and a violet(sf) dark(sf) green (siblings). parents violet(sf) dark(sf) indigoBlue and oliv /blue. the violet(sf) dark(sf) green looks steps darker then the oliv bird. But unsure if the violet is violet or deep. But for sure both parents are dark factor birds because of the oliv offspring.

Image

Image

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madas
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by madas » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:19 am

sheyd wrote: Image
Interesting color of the downs. Very dark grey. But could be the pic.

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:31 am

Thankyou both for your replies.


I was also thinking that, going by the colour of the central tail feather, that she might be more than just Violet(sf) Green or Dark(sf)Green.

Madas, yes they can only be my possibilities. The dam carries neither Dark nor Violet. The sire must be a Dark(sf) Violet(sf) (Blue) if the chick is indeed a Dark Violet Green.
Thanks for the pics :D


I will post more as more is revealed..
Last edited by sheyd on Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:35 am

madas wrote:
sheyd wrote: Image
Interesting color of the downs. Very dark grey. But could be the pic.
I noticed it too in when I uploaded the pics- I cannot recall what colour it actually really is, but will have a good look tomorrow. It could well just be that it was caused by the particular angle of the camera at the time.

edit*
I had a look at the down today, and from the pics I took yesterday, this is the closest it looks like to my eye:
Image


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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:11 pm

today's pics 4 weeks, 2 days- still looking like a Violet Dark possibility?


Image

Image

I realize it might be hard going just by a single bird, so I'll include her (edged) siblings next week @5 weeks old.

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:15 pm

Yes, I think its pretty safe to say that she's a Violet(sf) Dark(sf) Green :D

with her sires central tail feather
Image

tail comparison with edged brother
Image

with edged brothers
Image

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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by Ring0Neck » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:46 pm

Good job Shey :)

Nice birds n pics.
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by madas » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:03 am

sheyd wrote:Yes, I think its pretty safe to say that she's a Violet(sf) Dark(sf) Green :D
Looks like Violet(sf) Dark(sf) Green for me too. So congratulation.

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:45 am

Thanks Ben & Madas :D

A recent flight pic-

Image

pic in the nest (with flash)
Image

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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by Johan S » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:18 am

Nice one Shey! :D

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:48 pm

Thankyou Johan :)

Do you know if she would be considered as T1?

edit* actually if I'm correct in my thinking, she would have to be T1, because if she had of gotten a blue gene from her dam, she would have been blue instead of green series-

So, she got Dark, Violet and Blue crossed over from her sire which automatically makes her T1- Do I have this right?

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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by Kappa » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:07 am

Hi Shey,
The importance of /blueT 1 and /blueT2 is more relevant when trying to breed cobalt birds, from green series birds. However, since the sire already has the modified blue gene carrying the dark factor (dark linked to blue), he will pass them on as one. This means she will be a /blueT2.

A darkgreen/blueT1 will have inherited the dark gene from 1 parent and the blue from the other as separate genes and therefore can also pass them on separately.

The advantage of a /blueT2 is that it greatly increases the percentages of producing cobalt birds as opposed blue birds. In blue series offspring, a dark green/blueT2 x blue mating gives 42% chance of cobalt chicks and 8% chance of blue.

With T1, a dark green/blueT1 x blue will give the reverse, 42% chance of blue, and 8% chance of cobalt.

The opposite scenario happens when dealing with green series birds. T1 pairing will produce 42% dark green/ blue and 8% green/blue. Where as a T2 pairing will produce 42% green/blue and 8% dark green/blue.

That's how it's been explained to me. Clear as mud I know :lol: , but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :D
Last edited by Kappa on Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by willowisp71 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:43 am

Congrats, Shey …… beautiful bird - will be a stunner :D Are you keeping her for future breeding?
Regards Deb

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:45 pm

Kappa wrote:Hi Shey,
The importance of /blueT 1 and /blueT2 is more relevant when trying to breed cobalt birds, from green series birds. However, since the sire already has the modified blue gene carrying the dark factor (dark linked to blue), he will pass them on as one. This means she will be a /blueT2.

A darkgreen/blueT1 will have inherited the dark gene from 1 parent and the blue from the other as separate genes and therefore can also pass them on separately.

The advantage of a /blueT2 is that it greatly increases the percentages of producing cobalt birds as opposed blue birds. In blue series offspring, a dark green/blueT2 x blue mating gives 42% chance of cobalt chicks and 8% chance of blue.

With T1, a dark green/blueT1 x blue will give the reverse, 42% chance of blue, and 8% chance of cobalt.

The opposite scenario happens when dealing with green series birds. T1 pairing will produce 42% dark green/ blue and 8% green/blue. Where as a T2 pairing will produce 42% green/blue and 8% dark green/blue.

That's how it's been explained to me. Clear as mud I know :lol: , but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :D
Thanks Paul---Thanks for that :) think I'll have to let that all sink in a bit lol.
willowisp71 wrote:Congrats, Shey …… beautiful bird - will be a stunner :D Are you keeping her for future breeding?
Thanks Deb :) Yes, I'm keeping her (how can I not? I thinks she's stunning :D )

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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by Johan S » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:37 am

sheyd wrote:Thankyou Johan :)

Do you know if she would be considered as T1?
What mutations do the parents carry?

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:02 pm

Johan S wrote:
sheyd wrote:Thankyou Johan :)

Do you know if she would be considered as T1?
What mutations do the parents carry?
Hi Johan, sire is a Violet(sf) Dark(sf) Blue, and dam is a Green Cinnamon SL Edged

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:42 pm

6 weeks- violet colouring coming in on rump
Image


The two SL Edged cocks- I'm fairly confident both are Violet(sf) Green rather than Dark(sf) Green- but why one is 'greener' than the other has me a bit puzzled- any thoughts?

Image

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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by Johan S » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:45 am

sheyd wrote:
Johan S wrote:
sheyd wrote:Thankyou Johan :)

Do you know if she would be considered as T1?
What mutations do the parents carry?
Hi Johan, sire is a Violet(sf) Dark(sf) Blue, and dam is a Green Cinnamon SL Edged
In that case, Kappa got it right. (Very) Roughly 4/5 dark green offspring will be T2 and ready to breed high percentage cobalt and low percentage dark green. There is a small chance (roughly 1/5) that another crossing over occurred (a second crossing over, or decrossing over canceling the first of the sire) and the dark green offspring are now T1. Only testbreeding will determine which offspring are which.

PS: I'm not including violet in the discussion, which is an independent gene when considering blue and dark.

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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by Kappa » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:36 am

Hi Shey,
How do they look in person? I don't know if it's the lighting or angle of the photo, however, from the last photo you posted, I would say that they are different. The one on the left is either violet dark green, or dark green. It's definitely darker and has more of a blue sheen, which you get with dark green. Even the flights and tail look darker. The chick on the right I would go with violet green.

Tough call because of the diluting quality of edged.

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:59 am

Johan S wrote:
In that case, Kappa got it right. (Very) Roughly 4/5 dark green offspring will be T2 and ready to breed high percentage cobalt and low percentage dark green. There is a small chance (roughly 1/5) that another crossing over occurred (a second crossing over, or decrossing over canceling the first of the sire) and the dark green offspring are now T1. Only testbreeding will determine which offspring are which.

PS: I'm not including violet in the discussion, which is an independent gene when considering blue and dark.
Thanks for that Johan :)

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:08 am

Kappa wrote:Hi Shey,
How do they look in person? I don't know if it's the lighting or angle of the photo, however, from the last photo you posted, I would say that they are different. The one on the left is either violet dark green, or dark green. It's definitely darker and has more of a blue sheen, which you get with dark green. Even the flights and tail look darker. The chick on the right I would go with violet green.

Tough call because of the diluting quality of edged.
the differences have always been there, but it is subtle (imo) I don't have a Cobalt to compare the tail feathers too either :(- I just asked my other half if same or different and I got same lol. Yes, having being also edged is blurring things up a bit- but I don't think the more 'olivy' looking one is carrying two structural mutations- as the tail feathers don't compare to that of his sister's.-

I didn't know Dark Greens got a blue sheen- I thought it was only the violets that got that, so thanks for that :)

We'll see what they look like fully feathered- which should be in 1 weeks time.

PS I haven't directly compared their flights, but will try and get a good shot of both together when I have some more hands.

here's another shot-
Image

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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by madas » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:06 pm

sheyd wrote: Image
Looks like two distinct phenotypes. SL Edged b irds in dark(sf) green and violet(sf) green. :)

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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by Kappa » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:26 pm

Hi Shey,
Much better photo, and the difference is even more obvious. I agree with Madas, 1 violet green and the other dark green. That Olive, muddy colour is the violet green.

Been eating carrots much? :lol:
I can send you some cobalt tail feathers after seasons end, if you like.

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:50 pm

Thankyou both- the differences really are quite subtle.... but then I've been told that sometimes it is hard to pick between a Cobalt and a Violet(sf) Blue even when in the same nest- incidentally from the same line as these chicks.

I tried getting a pic of both edged chicks wings together, but since they're at the high risk stage of taking off, the pics did not turn out well because I had to bring them inside. I do however have a pic of one of their flights which I took a week or so earlier which I'll upload below.

Re:Cobalt feather ~ Paul that would be great :D

Image

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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by Kappa » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:18 pm

Hi Shey,
I agree that the edged has made it more difficult, but as you have mentioned the line of dark your sire comes from could complicate things further. I have 2 cobalt cocks from 2 sources, 1 is possibly from the same line as yours and he has a lot of violet showing in the back of his head and neck(bred directly from an imported European cobalt hen), where as with the other it's just noticeable.

I will send you tail feathers from both, as 1 cobalt is darker than the other.


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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:36 pm

Thought I'd share an update- as of yesterday all chicks have fully fledged.

Image

more pics will follow..


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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by Johan S » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:21 am

Those are very good looking, healthy youngsters. Looks like fantastic parents.

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sheyd
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Re: Violet(sf)Green, Dark(sf)Green or Violet(sf)Dark(sf)Gree

Post by sheyd » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:08 pm

Johan S wrote:Those are very good looking, healthy youngsters. Looks like fantastic parents.
Thanks Johan :D

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