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urgent all australian breeders

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Kappa
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urgent all australian breeders

Post by Kappa » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:59 am

Hi everyone,
I have just been informed of new laws and legislation about to be pass on the 16th of may. They are similar to those faced by our SA counterparts.
Can anyone confirm this. If so we need to get the ball rolling on our own fight.

Johan S
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Johan S » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:40 am

I've seen talk of this today on Facebook this morning. You guys need to get numbers together urgently. We'll help any way we can.

Kappa
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Kappa » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:37 am

Hi Johan,
Thanks for your support.

For those breeders who are not aware of this, some back ground info on the proposed new amendments of the legislation is out lined below:

It is not pin pointing specific breeds but has a blanket ban on all non- native species.

Petition Background (Preamble):
Currently a draft being proposed to amend the classification of some breeds of birds. Non-indigenous bird species will be declared as prohibited pest animals under the Catchment and Land Protection Act 1994 (CaLP) Act, this list includes:

Chilean Flamingo, Greater Flamingo, Greater Rhea, Yellow-collared Lovebird, Peach-faced Lovebird; Rosy-faced Lovebird, Mandarin Duck, Egyptian Goose, Red Munia; Red Strawberry Finch; Red or Indian Avadavat; Tiger Finch; Red Waxbill, Cuban Amazon; Cuban Parrot, Yellow-crowned Amazon; Yellow-headed Amazon; Yellow-fronted Amazon; Yellow-naped Amazon, Hyacinth Macaw, Graylag Goose, Blue-and-yellow Macaw, Canada Goose, Muscovy Duck, Common Redpoll, Lady Amherst's Pheasant, Bobwhite Quail; Northern Bobwhite, Red-fronted Parakeet, Common Waxbill; St Helena Waxbill, Silver-eared Mesia, Pekin Robin; Red-billed Leiothrix, African Silverbill, Black-headed Munia; Black-headed Nun, Black-headed Mannikin, Tri-coloured Mannikin, Monk Parakeet; Quaker Parrot, Nanday Conure, Helmeted Guineafowl, Java Sparrow; Paddy Finch, Alexandrine Parakeet, Slaty-headed Parakeet, Rose-ringed Parakeet; Indian or African Ringneck Parrot or Parakeet, Red-whiskered Bulbul, Maroon-bellied Conure, Island Canary, African Collared Dove; Barbary Dove, Red Collared-Dove, Ostrich, Paradise Shelduck, Red-cheeked Cordonbleu, Blue-black Grassquit; Jacarini Finch

This will change regulations regarding the keeping of these birds as pets in the future at the discretion of the CaLP committee.

Should the Australian Government amend the Live Import List1 regarding import of these species into Australia, they would be prohibited from being brought into, kept or sold in Victoria.

There is an active petition on Facebook : people against the proposed bird ban law.
I can't seem to get the link to work, so please go the the Facebook page and please sign the petition. This affects all of us so let's make a stand and show your support.
Cheers.


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Ring0Neck
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:08 pm

The above is last year's
"You are invited to review this discussion paper and provide written comments to DEPI by Friday the 28th June 2013."



Is there something recent we should worry about?
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know

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InTheAir
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by InTheAir » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:18 pm

Sorry, I posted the wrong link. I hadn't drunk my coffees

I think this is the right ones
http://goo.gl/wm9bT7 http://goo.gl/uETJde http://goo.gl/vLKWiY

Johan S
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Johan S » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:46 am


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Ring0Neck
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:15 am

I had a quick glance through and unless i'm missing something there is no threat to bird keeping in any way.
If i am missing something could someone point it out please.

This is not Australia wide but limited to Victoria state.

It says:
3. Non-indigenous bird species that are known to be in Victoria in private collections

The government does not consider it reasonable to increase the regulatory burden for bird keepers in Victoria. Permits to keep species already known to be in private collections would not be required.

Bird species known to be in private collections in Victoria will be allocated as described in 3a and 3b on the basis of their threat to Victoria.
3A
Component 3a - For those species determined to pose a high threat of establishment in the wild in Victoria, the feral or wild populations of those species should be managed by DEPI as appropriate
The policy will clearly define the threat levels. Declarations will only be for feral or wild populations of these species. The declaration will not impact on birds in captivity.
. What they are trying to implement:
The government should develop a cooperative working relationship with the avicultural sector to foster environmentally responsible management of bird collections, to limit escape from aviaries and to prevent any further establishment of species in the wild.
.
3B = N/A
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know

Kappa
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Kappa » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:15 pm

Hi Ben,
Yes this is a Victorian issue, but don't think for a minute that it wont have future implications for the rest of the country.

What you're missing is the fact that if IRNs turn out to be classified as an unacceptable threat, then they will be only be able to be kept as pets. This means that while we will be able to keep them, we won't be able to breed or sell them, thereby slowly eliminating them by natural attrition.

It is similar to what was faced by breeders in SA and we were all happy to go in and bat for them. So what's wrong with helping out us Mexicans.

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Ring0Neck
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:12 pm

:d
Kappa

True, no doubt once new laws are passed in a state the others will likely follow. i merely pointed out so forum members from O/S
can understand what Victoria is.

Of course we are all in !
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know

Kappa
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Kappa » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:19 am

Hi Ben,
That's good to know.
I've probably confused our O/S friends with the reference to being Mexican :D .

Personally, I think this is all going to end up being a revenue raising exercise through the introduction of registration of breeders and permits to keep IRNs and other exotics. Its currently a large unregulated market, with huge income potential for the government and we all know what usually happens when something becomes a viable commodity, everyone wants their share of the pie, especially the government. The keeping of exotics is now a large business and it supports and employs many people is various areas from the grain growers, the pet shops, avian vets, and so on. Therefore, a negative approach to this would disadvantage more than just us breeders.

Unfortunately, theses government agencies go around and preach the worsted case scenarios and support them with data from sources that have no local bearing. The problem with that is if you get enough narrow minded politicians ( and we have plenty of those ) to believe them we have laws created that we don't need.

I haven't read a single case study relevant to Victoria or Australia as a whole, where a cow cocky has complained about flocks of IRNs destroying his/her crops. It's just not happening. They seem to overlook the impact of cockatoos, galahs, corelas, rainbow lories, feral pigs, cats, dogs, goats, horses, camels and others, on our environment. I know there are IRNs out there, I have caught some myself, but its not having the disastrous outcomes that they are trying to convince people to believe.

BTW I have just today had a buyer pull out of a sale of IRNs based on the current events, preferring to wait for the outcome before he commits to anything. So the damage is already starting to be done. I just hope that it doesn't affect the current level of popularity of the IRN. Only time will tell.

Mad Max
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Mad Max » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:31 am

Hi Kappa/Austrailian breeders

Our thoughts go out to you as we have just gone through the same thing here in SA , The impact is huge my avian friends , We have lost a ton of revenue in SA as a resault of this , Prices of birds have dropped by at least 25% and sales have dropped by even more .
Lucky for us there are still some die hard buyers out there that have kept us going .
I estamate about a 2 year window before we fully recover from our ordeal . The nice thing that came out of it is that we will have to manage our flocks much better and also , due to the permit system I believe less bad conditioned breeding will take place here in SA.

Fight your fight and fight hard as you will only get one chance to state your case .

Regards
Robert

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madas
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by madas » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:38 am

Mad Max wrote: Prices of birds have dropped by at least 25% and sales have dropped by even more .
Then send some dom. pieds and emeralds to Europe. :D

madas

Johan S
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Johan S » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:08 pm

Lee, I think two things play a role here:

1) This one is on topic; I believe the push in declaring IRN as invasive in SA has caused a lot of damage to the market, esp. since there is still uncertainty as to what the permit system will entail. If it is like cycads, where one needs to keep an updated possession permit. When buying a new plant, one applies for a transport permit, then apply for another permit when crossing provincial boundaries, then transport the plant and finally apply again for an update to your possession permit that requires an inspection, with each one costing R50 and taking weeks, and this for every transaction, then I can't see IRN flourishing in SA any more.

2) Last year, more than 15 birds were imported from Oz that I know off, and there is already talk about more than that this year with the ban now lifted. Why are these guys still importing when the local bred birds are a) available and b) "the prices are in line with imports"? My humble opinion is that something is amiss with b). We can discuss it privately if you wish. Lets rather support our Ozzie friends in this topic.

Johan S
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Johan S » Thu May 01, 2014 2:01 am

Lee, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. That makes for interesting conversation. :D

My point was a very simple one.
Johan S wrote:... and b) "the prices are in line with imports"? My humble opinion is that something is amiss with b).
Unfortunately, even though you mention you disagree with me, you yourself explained what is amiss (i.e. the problem) very well and leaves very little for me to add. I will use only your own words and highlight the key areas.

You said:
molossus wrote:sellers have been battling to sell their birds...asking prices were initially in line with import prices...
But more importantly
molossus wrote: the original pricing for their first exported birds were reasonable ,, until they found out that their birds were sold for up to 5 x more.
As I've originally stated, my feeling is that the local bred birds aren't priced right. I never saw the 5x inflation that you mention, but there are enough examples of 2x - 3x inflation on single birds, esp. the locally bred ones. And this is public knowledge and certainly no big secret. And they don't sell well. And at that price, they won't. Buyers know it and will wait it out. Most can't afford it in any case. The importers have picked up on this and have undercut local breeder prices in 2013 with a number of imports that sold quietly at 2/3 the price of the local bred birds. That opportunity should never have existed in the first place. The same is going to happen this year, because local breeders have not changed their approach, and allowed another season for rather importing birds. There's already talk of some good numbers of new imports shipping soon (if not already). Until local breeders offer a viable alternative to importing birds, I'm afraid nothing will change. That means dominant pieds and emeralds will sell, but it will be at import prices (here 'in line' means 1x, not 2x - 5x) and from Oz breeders.

As for the other points, they are all true, and not only for SA, but internationally. One doesn't need to look much further to the global recession of about 2007 - 2009. The impact of that is still felt by most. Europe seems to be recovering the fastest.

Kappa
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by Kappa » Thu May 01, 2014 2:09 am

Hi Johan,
I have to agree with you on the point that the popularity of the IRN will in time be determined by the cost and frequency of permit renewal. I suspect the pet trade will be where the market softens the greatest. I can't see pet owners paying an annual fee which could be more than what their current, or potential pet, is worth to buy. It may be worth while for breeders to accept and absorb the cost of a permit, but I can't see it happening in the pet market.

This will result in a change in the supply and demand chain, and consequently the over supply will damped prices. Furthermore, the influx of cheaper Victorian birds into the other states will force prices down around the country, eventially affecting everone. Yes there will be the die hards who will still pay a premium for good birds, but they will not be able to sustain the whole market off their own backs. Wether the market can recover from this will be proven in due course.

I know from experience, with the licences required for the Australian natives birds many didn't find it an attractive option, and as a result the Ozzie birds were relatively cheap. This allowed the exotics to flourish and secure a strong market share. As some ozzie native birds were removed from licensing requirements, over time, their value and popularity increased and this renewed interest lead to an explosion of new mutations.

I just hope that those who choose not to comply with the final outcome chose a responsible way of giving up their birds, and hopefully don't do the wrong thing by the responsible breeders, and release birds into the wild. As crazy as this sounds, i know of pet owners who have done this. It's the easy out for some. This would just play into the hands of the authorities and make matters worse for everyone else.

smick
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Re: urgent all australian breeders

Post by smick » Fri May 02, 2014 2:12 am

I have signed the petition and asked others on a different site if they would like to support as some of them will be affected as well. Kappa I think your 100% right if they introduce a permit many people with only a pet bird or small number of breeders may say stuff it I don't want the permit and if they can't sell their birds off they may just release them causing the exact problem the government is trying to avoid. Lets hope the Victorian government see's sense and doesn't introduce a permit. I know of many people who will only buy natives that are off the licence books and yes the licenced birds have suffered greatly with a restricted market. Thanks Smick.

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