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Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

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Johan S
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Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:59 am

Hi all,

since the forum is quite, I figured I'd upload a series of photos (starting with one) from some birds carrying structural mutations. As specific birds are discussed, I'll upload additional photos.

So, what are we? (Hint: Use the turqblue second to the right as reference)
Image

PS: There is a way to cheat to get to the result. If you know how, don't do it! :!:

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Ring0Neck
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:06 am

I'll go L to R (turq. perch) DF Vio SF Dark; DF Vio SF NT Vio; DF Vio Green
front perch DF Dark
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Johan S
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:11 am

No players except Ring0? What a pity.

Ok Ben, so one stars so far for the mauve. Hint: no other DF mutations present.

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madas
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by madas » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:08 am

Johan S wrote: No players except Ring0? What a pity.
Sure but not always online. :) Some people have to work. :D

Left to right:

dark(sf) violet(sf) blue, dark(sf) SA 'deep'(sf) blue, dark(sf) violet(sf) green, dark(df) blue.

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Ring0Neck
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Ring0Neck » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:52 am

Very dark birds, a lot of greyish toned color
If the first one is vio cobalt well..
my vio cob looks like this:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/cobVio.jpg
could be the lighting and type of camera used.
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Johan S
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:51 am

madas wrote:
Johan S wrote: No players except Ring0? What a pity.
Sure but not always online. :) Some people have to work. :D

Left to right:

dark(sf) violet(sf) blue, dark(sf) SA 'deep'(sf) blue, dark(sf) violet(sf) green, dark(df) blue.
Not always online? :o Of course you are. :D

Have another look at this one:
Image
Ring0Neck wrote:Very dark birds, a lot of greyish toned color
If the first one is vio cobalt well..
my vio cob looks like this:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/cobVio.jpg
could be the lighting and type of camera used.
And compare you blue bird to the turqblue and you'll notice the difference there too. Yours; an under roof picture with enhanced light, mine an outdoor picture in overcast conditions. Now run a "normaliser algorithm" in your head to account for those differences until our blues look the same. Then the same for the cobalt violet. I also noticed that my Samsung screen shows it very nicely, but my LG screen shows the colour very saturated and close to one another. Background differences in the pictures will play a role. Since yours is rather even, the camera has an easier time calculating the colour temperature adjustment (if in automatic mode). I just set mine to overcast. All those damn variables. :(

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Taliep » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:20 am

Hi Johan

lets give it a try. Violet DF Dark, Violet Df Dark, Df Dark, Violet Dark Green and Emerald Turq or Turq opaline :D

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madas
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by madas » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:49 am

Johan S wrote: Have another look at this one:

Image
So is it the same green series bird as in the other pic? if it isn't dark(sf) violet(sf) green then dark(sf) SA 'deep'(sf) green.
Or is it another riddle? :?: For my eyes to dark or "olivish" to be a normal violet(sf) green.

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:43 pm

madas wrote:So is it the same green series bird as in the other pic? if it isn't dark(sf) violet(sf) green then dark(sf) SA 'deep'(sf) green.
Or is it another riddle? :?: For my eyes to dark or "olivish" to be a normal violet(sf) green.
Yes, there are a couple of riddles, but not with this one. Well, there isn't supposed to be, in any case. Most people visiting myself or my dad will guess that it is a cobalt violet (I always ask what they think first), but the tail is lighter (or less purple and more blueish for sure than a cobalt violet). You can clearly see the green bird still has blueish tail, albeit very dark. The line was imported from Belgium by one of our friends, and has been breeding true to colour for a few generations, and more than 10 birds. Breeding outcomes are always blue and SF violet. We own eight violets from this line and are steadily breeding it into other mutations for combinations. Here are older brothers from our dilute (hopefully this year we'll get a violet dilute) and opaline series. Two pics of the opaline, with more/less light; notice the rump. He was the last to breed and only started moulting when I left early January (meaning very late). This is still his 15 month moult. One of my favourite birds.

Image
Image
Image

As always, your opinion is welcomed and appreciated.

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:55 pm

And, to get a bit more on track again with the original picture, the bird partially visible at the far right (next to the turqblue) looks like this:
Image

Madas, there's your riddle. :D

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Mad Max » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:24 am

hi All
I am going to go with the DF Violet , SF violet (although it is very dark) sf Deep violet and a darkgreen violet with the turquoise blue

Robert

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Ring0Neck
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:32 am

Johan S wrote:And, to get a bit more on track again with the original picture, the bird partially visible at the far right (next to the turqblue) looks like this:
Image

Madas, there's your riddle. :D
Nice bird indeed.

Are we looking at SF Dark SF NT Violet Blue?
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:01 am

Mad Max wrote:hi All
I am going to go with the DF Violet , SF violet (although it is very dark) sf Deep violet and a darkgreen violet with the turquoise blue

Robert
Hi Robert, in the discussion between Madas and myself it was let slip the green bird is a SF violet green. Now work from there and the next hint. :D
Ring0Neck wrote:Nice bird indeed.

Are we looking at SF Dark SF NT Violet Blue?
Nope, not this one. But it is there in the original pic. Give it another go. This bird is too light to carry two structural mutations.

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:24 am

Oh,
Ok, so the 2nd bird original pic is SF Dark SF NT Violet Blue , i still see that bird very dark to carry only 2 struct. mutations in SF, (using two screens).
If that is the case how would that bird look adding df vio to it?! :shock:

first bird on the left is light but probably not as light as yours yea.
DarkDeep DarkViolet Dark DarkDeepVioletBlues
Image
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madas
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by madas » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:56 am

Johan S wrote:And, to get a bit more on track again with the original picture, the bird partially visible at the far right (next to the turqblue) looks like this:
Image

Madas, there's your riddle. :D
This is easy: SA 'deep' blue or NT violet blue. :P

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by madas » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:58 am

madas wrote:
Johan S wrote: No players except Ring0? What a pity.
Sure but not always online. :) Some people have to work. :D

Left to right:

dark(sf) violet(sf) blue, dark(sf) SA 'deep'(sf) blue, dark(sf) violet(sf) green, dark(df) blue.
To quote myself: dark(sf) violet(sf) blue, dark(sf) SA 'deep'(sf) blue, violet(sf) green, dark(df) blue, turqblue, SA 'deep' blue.

:D

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Ring0Neck
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:13 am

madas wrote:
Johan S wrote:And, to get a bit more on track again with the original picture, the bird partially visible at the far right (next to the turqblue) looks like this:
Image

Madas, there's your riddle. :D
This is easy: SA 'deep' blue or NT violet blue. :P
:D
It sure looks that way but then where is the riddle if that's sf nt violet? i expected a twist to it.
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:23 am

Ring0Neck wrote:Oh,
Ok, so the 2nd bird original pic is SF Dark SF NT Violet Blue , i still see that bird very dark to carry only 2 struct. mutations in SF, (using two screens).
Make no mistake, the bird is very dark. More so than a good quality violet. It is between SF violet and SF violet SF dark.

Maybe this will put it in perspective. Compare the tails of the SF dark SF NT blue to the cobalt turqblue. As you can see, it is significantly darker. And I'm confident we can expect something similar for the DF NT blue, which will most likely lie somewhere between the two tails in the pic.
Image

An open wing shot
Image
The rump
Image
The belly
Image
Ring0Neck wrote:If that is the case how would that bird look adding df vio to it?!
Ben, it will most likely be a mauve lookalike. That's what we've been seeing with our cobalt violet(df), and what Willy has been observing too when 3+ structural mutations get together. It is also exactly what I'm trying to convince locals of. Still having a hard time with that, but I'll be persistent. :lol:
madas wrote:
madas wrote:
Johan S wrote: No players except Ring0? What a pity.
Sure but not always online. :) Some people have to work. :D

Left to right:

dark(sf) violet(sf) blue, dark(sf) SA 'deep'(sf) blue, dark(sf) violet(sf) green, dark(df) blue.
To quote myself: dark(sf) violet(sf) blue, dark(sf) SA 'deep'(sf) blue, violet(sf) green, dark(df) blue, turqblue, SA 'deep' blue.

:D
Bingo! You have corrected the green and added the missing birds of your first efforts. :D

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:31 am

madas wrote:
Johan S wrote:And, to get a bit more on track again with the original picture, the bird partially visible at the far right (next to the turqblue) looks like this:
Image

Madas, there's your riddle. :D
This is easy: SA 'deep' blue or NT violet blue. :P
You sure it isn't SF dark? :wink:

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by madas » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:03 pm

Johan S wrote:
madas wrote:
Johan S wrote:And, to get a bit more on track again with the original picture, the bird partially visible at the far right (next to the turqblue) looks like this:
Image

Madas, there's your riddle. :D
This is easy: SA 'deep' blue or NT violet blue. :P
You sure it isn't SF dark? :wink:
Yeap. Sure. To light for a SA cobalt. :D

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sheyd
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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by sheyd » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:33 pm

I guessed dfDark Blue for the bird at the front on the far right side. for the next greyish bird I guessed dfViolet sfDark (which I since found isn't the case) the one next to it, is it a sfViolet sfDark too?

Lost me on the rest. NT Violets and this Australian Deep are going to do my head in :lol:

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by sheyd » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:39 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:Very dark birds, a lot of greyish toned color
If the first one is vio cobalt well..
my vio cob looks like this:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/cobVio.jpg
could be the lighting and type of camera used.
Mine looks in between yours and Johan's (sorry not the best, but shows colour next to a reg Blue)
Image

I've seen other supposed Violet Cobalts that look more bluish than purplish too. Wonder if these birds are of the Euro strain (which is what I currently think)?

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:53 am

I've played around with the enhance function provided by photobucket, and this was the results

Image

It seems to clear the colouring up a bit. I suspect the green background in my pictures confuses the issue a bit. Keep this in mind and look again at the original

Image

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by sheyd » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:47 am

Ok, birds on the front perch left to right :
sfNT Violet sfViolet, df Dark Blues
Birds on the far perch:
sfViolet sfDark, sfViolet Green, TurquoiseBlue and sfNT Violet Blue.

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:37 pm

sheyd wrote:Ok, birds on the front perch left to right :
sfNT Violet sfViolet, df Dark Blues
Birds on the far perch:
sfViolet sfDark, sfViolet Green, TurquoiseBlue and sfNT Violet Blue.
Not a bad attempt. Two changes: front perch is a sf violet sf dark, and back perch is the sf NT violet sf dark for comparison between the violets in cobalt.

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by sheyd » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:53 pm

Hi Johan, do you have a pic from behind? those two look virtually identical from the front?

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by Johan S » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:38 pm

Shey, unfortunately, not good ones. This one came out too dark. You can see the difference in the wings, but not very well.
Image

This one of the NTviolet cobalt compares it to a cobalt turq and came out better.
Image

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Re: Structural mutations (an SA perspective)

Post by sheyd » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:11 pm

Yes, I can see a difference now- thanks for the pics :D

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