Emerald Green Fluorescence

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Johan S
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Johan S »

Dr Deon, thanks for the pictures. They really shed a new light on emerald.

Here are some of my observations. First of all, between my dad and myself we have bred a lot of turquioseblue opaline chicks sharing the same phenotype as the cock when 15+ months of age, and they all have very few green feathers at the age of these chicks. Typically they can very easily be confused with blue birds. I find it extremely interesting/exciting that there exists such a significant interaction between the emerald and turquoise genes in the emeraldturquoise (or emerald turquoiseblue) chicks when compared to the non-turquoise birds. For my eyes, the two opaline chicks on the right show a significant difference in phenotype. Herein for me lies the excitement. I would love to see a picture of the opaline cock before his first moult to clarify his type of parblue (i.e. how much green was already displayed).

The picture, as displayed on my monitor, makes the 3rd bird on the left appear like a normal blue. It shows much less emerald yellow than the hen. It could just be the picture/light, it could be a homozygous emerald hen compared to heterozygous emerald cock, or possibly even an age dependent factor. We will learn in time.
Chriskoi wrote:Come on Recio. It's not your day. :D So why should all the offspring birds be females??? Pair is Opaline x non Opaline and i can see two opalines and two normals. So the normals are males. :)
The two greener ones are EmeraldTurq birds one in opaline and split for opaline. the other two are EmeraldBlue. same: one opaline and one split for opaline.

Chris
Chris, maybe have another look? For my money, three opalines and one "normal" cock. :wink:
Chriskoi
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Chriskoi »

Johan S wrote: Chris, maybe have another look? For my money, three opalines and one "normal" cock. :wink:
If you zoom in then the second bird from the right could be opaline too. :) So Deon is/was a very, very lucky man. :D
But the first offspring identification (bird in the nest) of Deon was two opalines and two normals.

Chris
Deon Smith
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Deon Smith »

Recio, the younsters are EmeraldTurquoise Opaline hens on the outsides, 2nd juvenile EmeraldBlue/opaline cock, and the third one from the left EmeraldBlue Opaline hen.

The 100KB limitation on posting size cause loss of definition, so the following high resolution downloads are worthwhile. The last image 0017 is the 5th baby.

http://adobe.ly/1i2AHVW

http://adobe.ly/Jz5oGx

http://adobe.ly/1i2BmqB

http://adobe.ly/1l7CY4T


Deon
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Deon Smith »

Ring0Neck wrote:
Could we deduce from above that Homozygous Parblues won't vary in their phenotype?[/quote]

The Parblues used to be quite variant in parblue expression even the homozygous ones. But there has been quite a development with the Parblues in S.A. at least; the modern ones getting greener and more stable. I have heard breeders stating broods of identical offspring from a clutch, and not even only Homozygotes. Maybe Johan Schoeman would comment on that. A pity WS is not here anymore.

Deon
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

Deon Smith wrote:
Ring0Neck wrote:

Could we deduce from above that Homozygous Parblues won't vary in their phenotype?
The Parblues used to be quite variant in parblue expression even the homozygous ones. But there has been quite a development with the Parblues in S.A. at least; the modern ones getting greener and more stable. I have heard breeders stating broods of identical offspring from a clutch, and not even only Homozygotes. Maybe Johan Schoeman would comment on that. A pity WS is not here anymore.

Deon
I'm of the opinion that Parblues are such a mutation where variability is the norm or a feature perhaps (We knew that). I'm thinking mainly: adaptation to changing enviroment from a single mutation to be able to slightly camuflage/change phenotype without major changes /therefore rapid phenotypical change can occur even in a mature bird according to their surroundings to sustain the existing flock survival not just the newly born. With that in mind, in a particular part of the world they should stabilize in phenotype due to no changes in surrounding environment. Just my thought.
I'm sure i did not say anything new, I was just clarifying why i asked the initial Question.
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Mikesringnecks
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Mikesringnecks »

Hi Deon
I entered this debate some months ago because I couldn't identify the phenotype of all 7 chicks produced by an EmeraldTurquoise yhyt hen and a Dark Violet Blue whwt cock. As it turned out, the forum was very helpful and the chicks were finally identified as 2 Violet TurquoiseBlue yhwts, 2 Dark EmeraldBlue yhyts, an EmeraldBlue yhyt, a Violet EmeraldBlue yhyt and a Dark Violet Emerald Blue yhyt.
This result would seem to strongly support the EmeraldTurquoise proposition, but I couldn't determine whether or not the Violet EmeraldBlue yhyt and Dark Violet EmeraldBlue yhyt chicks were also carrying Turquoise because I had nothing to compare them with and I knew from the mother's phenotype that the EmeraldTurquoise combination was not patchy.
I don't think I can offer the debate anything more from the chicks, but it does occur to me that the EmeraldTurquoise yhyt mother may hold some useful clues because I do have some relevant comparators.In this regard. I have attached front and back pics of the 2012 EmeraldTurquoise mother with her 2013 EmeraldBlue yhyt daughter and an unrelated 2013 Green yhyt cock bird. I can identify what I think are three important features from this comparison and there may well be others.
1. The yellow bellies are very different in hue and, whilst the EmeraldBlue yhyt's belly looks white in the photograph, I can assure you it is actually pale yellow. In fact, the mother's belly colour looks to be part way between that of the Green and the Emerald.
2. Their green backs are different hues as one would expect, given the variation in yellow pigmentation.
3. There is no sign of patchiness in the back of the EmeraldTurquoise yhyt mother even though she is part way into her first adult moult.
I have looked at them under UV from Chris Whipps SA torch but I am not certain of what I am seeing yet with UV so I haven't commented on it or tried to photograph it.
Your comments would be much appreciated.
Kind regards
Mike
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Mikesringnecks
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Mikesringnecks »

Hi Deon & Recio
One additional comment regarding my one year old "EmeraldTurquoise Cleartail" hen. Given the obvious difference between her and the young Green Cleartail cock bird in the comparative photos I submitted, I find it hard to understand how she can be an Emerald Green split turquoise Cleartail. On the other hand, I also find it hard to understand why she is not patchy if she is an EmeralTurquoise Cleartail as I have historically assumed until proven otherwise.
Again, any comments/advice would be much appreciated.
Kind regards
Mike
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

Hi Mike,

Firstly i want to Thank you for your efforts. You're a great contributor. Great Pics.

I will not attempt to answer your questions regarding the patchiness on TurquoiseEmerald but we could look at a few points/questions below:

1. How much do we know about inter-allelic Parblues phenotype?
IndigoTurquoise
TurquoiseSaphire
IndigoSaphire
Do we have examples of such? Do we even care? I am suspecting very little patching on these birds.
I have what i believe is 1 of above Parblue combos , a green bird a visitor would call it, not much patching.

If you had a 1 year old Turquoise Cleartail with no patches, what would the general concenssus be out there?
Probably 4 words: It will show later.

Why do we choose Emerald over other parblues ?

If we open our mind and horizon to explore Parblues as a family i'm sure we'll find a few hidden gems there.

I would continue but pressed for time ATM.

Ben



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Mikesringnecks
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Mikesringnecks »

Hi Deon & Recio
I'm afraid I miss labelled one of the birds in the photographs. The one I labelled Turquoise should read EmeraldBlue. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused, I was having computer problems trying to get pics to a size suitable for the forum and I lost the plot! You can blame old age, I won't comment further.
Kind Regards
Mike
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Mikesringnecks »

Ring0Neck wrote:Hi Mike,

Firstly i want to Thank you for your efforts. You're a great contributor. Great Pics.

I will not attempt to answer your questions regarding the patchiness on TurquoiseEmerald but we could look at a few points/questions below:

1. How much do we know about inter-allelic Parblues phenotype?
IndigoTurquoise
TurquoiseSaphire
IndigoSaphire
Do we have examples of such? Do we even care? I am suspecting very little patching on these birds.
I have what i believe is 1 of above Parblue combos , a green bird a visitor would call it, not much patching.

If you had a 1 year old Turquoise Cleartail with no patches, what would the general concenssus be out there?
Probably 4 words: It will show later.

Why do we choose Emerald over other parblues ?

If we open our mind and horizon to explore Parblues as a family i'm sure we'll find a few hidden gems there.

I would continue but pressed for time ATM.

Ben

Hi Ben
Firstly, I'm afraid I miss labelled one of the birds in the photos, the bird labelled Turquoise should have been labelled EmeraldBlue. Sorry if that was confusing but I was focusing more on the computer and the intricacies of the forum than on the content. I suspect those photos will add some support to Willy's contention, even though he doesn't see value in photographing juvenile par blues.
I have bred Turquoise birds for years and they have always been patchy for the first couple of years, even though sometimes the patches didn't show until the juvenile molt.
I have not tried combos other than Emerald and DF Turquoise principally because, until recently, I thought indigo and sapphire were just "marketing" variations on Turquoise. In the last year I have seen Indigos that do seem to be sufficiently consistent over time to be attributed to a separate allele, I have never seen a sapphire.
Kind regards
Mike

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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »



I got the pics from Aaron. Will upload v. soon.
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Gratz »

Hello Mike
I hope you dodnt mind , I played around with paint.net with your photo and got some very interesting results, take a look
[URL=http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

regards
Gratz
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »



Aaron's Photos

Notes:
(CT=Cleartail)
(Pics are of low quality, I might see Aaron this week if so I will take hi res pics)
I will use Parblue teminology.
Underwing cream coloring: Thus far I am yet to see an Emerlad without cream under the wing, therefore we consider the easiest way to ID an Emerald, if anyone has/seen Emerald without cream underwing pls come forward (see thread below)
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 26&t=18322
Spoke to Aaron before i received the pics and i asked if there was cream color under the wing?; He said no.

Summary


J F paired EmeraldBlue /CT x Violet Green CT /Blue
Known offspring:
Violet Green /CT possible /Emerald male


Aaron acquired this bird.
Pair Blue series CT hen X Violet Green /Emerald /CT male
Known offspring:
Violet EmeraldBlue/CT
Violet Green /Blue /CT hen






Aaron's Violet EmeraldBlue 2013 from above pair.
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/PA255747.JPG
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/PA255755.JPG



Now the long awaited pics of the father Violet Green /Emerald /CT
* My first first thing i picked up was the neckring color :idea:

Image

Image

Image

Image


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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Johan S »

Thanks for the pics, Ben.
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Recio »

Hi everybody,

Back from a long week-end and I have just found some very interesting ideas/pics.
1. Do Turquoise and Emerald interaction induce a diferent phenotype than the simple addition of both phenotypes? That is an Emerald TurquoiseBlue (or an EmeraldBlue if you prefere till we get the rigth cue) shows...
1.1 .... a patched or a non patched phenotype?
1.2. .... a greenish colour stable from feathering or a progressive greener color?
We have pics for both, patching and colour, showing both situations. Which is the good one or how to explain both situations? I have postulated that the apparent non patched phenotype, probably with progressing greener colour, could be Green series Emeralds. One posible cue to check it could be the main tail feather colour under normal lighting, which is like a normal blue in blue series Emerald and greener in Green series. This idea could be wrong if the interaction of Emerald with Turquoise induced a "spreading" of yellow pigment to the main wing and tail feathers.

In Deon's pics the situation is complicated by the addittion of Opaline to the mix. The greener birds chicks in Deon's pic do not show any patchiness, and, at priori it would not be due to the presence of Opaline (Opaline Turquoise combo produce patched birds, with a decreasse in the apparent amount of yellowness as described by Johan and seen in http://www.psittacula-world.com/EN/Psit ... rld-EN.htm). This greener color is atributed by Deon, despite the lack of patched psittacin and the earlier even green color, to the presence of Turquoise. The other possibility is that the chicks were Green series Emeralds, and thus, the mother must also be a Green series bird.
@Deon: could it be posible to have in the same pic the main tail feather of the mother together with a normal blue feather under normal lighting? If they are the same it would point to the mother being a blue series bird and the even Green colouring without patches of the chicks being due to an special interaction between Turquoise and Emerald. If the mother's tail is greener it would point to the mother being a Green series bird and probably also the chicks.

@Ben.
Thank you a lot for the pics of Aaron's Violet Green. I agree with you that this is the bird to finally answer what really Emerald is since the Emerald gene is carried by the male as is clearly seen in the underwing creamy patch of the offspring.
But ... we should look at this bird with the rigth "eyes":
1. You say that the lack of the creamy underwing patch is a sign of the bird being split Emerald. I do not agree: the underwing creamy patch (either structural or pigmentary) is masked in Green series birds by the presence of yellow psittacofulvines.
2. We are considering Emerald as a posible structural mutation acting on the feather cortex, and we also have indirect data pointing to an action of Violet also in the feather cortex. In this situation we can not exclude an interaction between both mutations producing a masking effect.

What should we look for in this Violet Green male to know if he is also Emerald or just split Emerald? Two things:
1. Emerald combination with parblues has so far never allowed to produce birds showing a red ring. If this Violet Green male does not show a red ring it would point to Emerald being expressed. The problema is that, on these pics, I am not able to say if the red ring is present or not. Could you get better pics or directly ask Aaron?
2. The ligth yellow colour of Emerald can be easily masked by the presence of yellow psittacins in Green series birds under normal ligthing, but when you look at feathers containing both pigments under 365 nm uv ligth, it is the Emerald fluorescence which will mask the normal psittacin fluorescence. We need to look at this bird under uv to know for sure if Emerald is expressed or not.

I hope you agree with these ideas.

Regards

Recio
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »



Johan,

My pleasure!


Hi Recio,

I can see a red ring in the last pic, download the pic and zoom in but not too much due to low res.

When i meet up with Aaron i'll take pics of high res. that will allow us to zoom in without distortion to the pic.

If i agree with the 2 points? not really
Sounds like we are looking for signs of split to a mutation to me.
I doubt Aaron will do any UV tests, took a while to get these pics.


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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by sheyd »

Thanks for the pics Ben- looking forward to others
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by madas »

Recio wrote: You say that the lack of the creamy underwing patch is a sign of the bird being split Emerald. I do not agree: the underwing creamy patch (either structural or pigmentary) is masked in Green series birds by the presence of yellow psittacofulvines.
Hi Recio,

on the one hand you are saying Mikes bird which is a visual blue bird should be a green series bird clearly identifiable by the creamy underwing patch. On the other Hand you are telling us "the creamy underwing patch is masked in a green series bird".
So something isn't fitting here. :(

greetings.
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by madas »

Recio wrote: 1. Emerald combination with parblues has so far never allowed to produce birds showing a red ring.
Until now i haven't seen a pic of a fully matured EmeraldOtherParblue IRN male which is proving this fact. Can you provide such a pic?

thx.
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Recio »

Ring0Neck wrote:

Johan,

My pleasure!


Hi Recio,

I can see a red ring in the last pic, download the pic and zoom in but not too much due to low res.

When i meet up with Aaron i'll take pics of high res. that will allow us to zoom in without distortion to the pic.

If i agree with the 2 points? not really
Sounds like we are looking for signs of split to a mutation to me.
I doubt Aaron will do any UV tests, took a while to get these pics.


Hi Ben & everybody;

I said that "this is the bird to finally answer what really Emerald is" but I did not say why. I was expecting one of you to uncover it :) . It was my Christmas present.

Let's see: Aaron bird is a green Violet split Blue (it produces Blue Violet chicks) and heterozygous Emerald (we'll see later that it is not possible to be split Emerald). If Blue and Emerald were both alleles of the same gene ... how could they both be carried by a green bird? How Aaron's bird could be Green Violet/Blue/Emerald in the parblue model. How could three different alleles (Wild, Blue and Emerald) hold in the same locus? Thus, as I said, Aaron's bird proves without doubt that Emerald is not an allele of the Blue locus.

If Emerald is an independent mutation, as proven by Aaron's bird, and Emerald is present in Blue series bird as SF, then Emerald is a dominant mutation since its heterozygous form in blue series is already visible. It seems that Emerald is not readilly visible in a Green Violet male, but before speaking of a masking effect I would like to see the neckring (I expect a thiner and/or orange like colour for the red ring). If we ever detect a masking effect, we should study whether this effect depends on the presence of normal psittacins or of the Violet mutation.
Humans only have 3 pigments in our retinas for colour perception but birds have 4 pigments allowing them to see in the uv spectrum. Probably what appears as a masking phenomenon for us, shows a clear difference for our birds. If Aaron's bird shows to fluoresce like Emeralds, then we should not say that Emerald is masked in green series even if we can not see it under normal ligthing conditions.
Madas said: on the one hand you are saying Mikes bird which is a visual blue bird should be a green series bird clearly identifiable by the creamy underwing patch. On the other Hand you are telling us "the creamy underwing patch is masked in a green series bird".
So something isn't fitting here.
Hi Madas. Here you are mixing the wings patches of psittacins (I said that Mike's bird could be a green series bird because it lacks the psittacin patches typical of parblues) with the creamy underwing patch which identifyes Emerald in blue series birds. I hope it is clear :P

Best regards to everybody and one thousand thanks to Ben and Aaron for providing data and pics.

Recio
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

Recio,

Sorry to dissapoint :cry:
You got this part mixed up the other way around or wrong.
Let's see: Aaron bird is a green Violet split Blue (it produces Blue Violet chicks) and heterozygous Emerald (we'll see later that it is not possible to be split Emerald). If Blue and Emerald were both alleles of the same gene ... how could they both be carried by a green bird? How Aaron's bird could be Green Violet/Blue/Emerald in the parblue model. How could three different alleles (Wild, Blue and Emerald) hold in the same locus? Thus, as I said, Aaron's bird proves without doubt that Emerald is not an allele of the Blue locus.


Here it is again:
Aaron acquired this bird.
Pair Blue series CT hen X Violet Green /Emerald /CT male
Known offspring:
Violet EmeraldBlue/CT
Violet Green /Blue /CT hen



Green/Emerald X Blue
Offspring:
Green/Blue
EmeraldBlue

* All blue series birds offspring will be EmeraldBlue, all greens are split Blue.

Last edited by Ring0Neck on Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by madas »

Recio wrote: it produces Blue Violet chicks
Where did you get this info from?

Ben wrote:
Ring0Neck wrote: Summary


J F paired EmeraldBlue /CT x Violet Green CT /Blue
Known offspring:
Violet Green /CT possible /Emerald male


Aaron acquired this bird.
Pair Blue series CT hen X Violet Green /Emerald /CT male
Known offspring:
Violet EmeraldBlue/CT
Violet Green /Blue /CT hen
and i thought an image of the violet EmeraldBlue /CT chick was posted here showing the typical creamy underwing color.

Perhaps i simply lost the the overview. :)

madas
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Recio »

Hi Madas & Ben;

Thank you for the correction. I misunderstood that a Violet Blue was also bred from that bird.
Anyway if you analyse the possibilities with the non parblue model, you will find that the results are also explained considering that the male could be Green Violet heterozygous Blue heterozygous Emerald (Green Violet/ Blue/ Emerald).

Still waiting for consistent data.

Best regards to you

Recio
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote:
Violet EmeraldBlue/CT
Violet Green /Blue /CT hen
Ben, what you need to do is look at the highlighted offspring and compare it to the father with the "eyes of a bargain hunter". There should/could be a very very slight difference, like with the alexandrines if the offspring is non-emerald. A "bargain hunter" will pick it up, esp. if the birds look the same and offers the chance of picking up an emerald gene at a low price. I'm not saying you should go rip off Aaron! I'm merely explaining the level of scrutiny required. It'll be tricky business, picking out a difference, if at all.

Recio, after my nice holiday and being mostly absent from the forum, and between the blue emeralds and green emeralds and parblue emeralds in blue (and green?) I'm getting a bit confused with the phenotypes. Could you please briefly summarise again? And possibly with a pic of each?
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

Johan,

Although I am of the opinion that she is split blue & CT only, I have been talking to Aaron for a few weeks now to acquire this hen.


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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Johan S »

The point I was trying to make was to look very very carefully, but nothing wrong in buying a nice violet green / blue / CT! :lol: Or even a violet emerald green / blue / CT, depending on how the wind blows... :wink:
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

Johan, Recio...

Here's the green violet/ct/ blue!? hen, sister of the Violet EmeraldBlue/CT Aaron bred.
I'll take more pics tomorrow once they are in the cages.
Flash used as it was evening.
Image
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Johan S »

Nice looking bird, Ben. You planning to pair her to a blue CT male?
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »


Johan,

I have not given it much thought.
It could be any blue series male, being a young hen i won't worry much what she is paired with 1st season.
not even sure i will assign her a cage to breed in this year.

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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Johan S »

Ben, are you saying you don't have 2015 fully planned yet ??? :shock: :lol:
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »


Edit: Johan check out the pic below:

http://parakeet.me/irn/m/em/P1229102.JPG
Last edited by Ring0Neck on Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

Correction as pointed out in email by Willy
i said: "Johan, Recio...

Here's the green violet/ct/ blue!? hen, sister of the Violet EmeraldBlue/CT Aaron bred."
It should read:

Here's the green violet/ct/ blue hen as she is 100% /blue, sister of the Violet EmeraldBlue/CT Aaron bred.
the :?: was if perhaps the bird is emerald green violet/blue >3% chance IMO but the :?: was placed as if the split for blue was questioned.
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote:Correction as pointed out in email by Willy
i said: "Johan, Recio...

Here's the green violet/ct/ blue!? hen, sister of the Violet EmeraldBlue/CT Aaron bred."
It should read:

Here's the green violet/ct/ blue hen as she is 100% /blue, sister of the Violet EmeraldBlue/CT Aaron bred.
the :?: was if perhaps the bird is emerald green violet/blue >3% chance IMO but the :?: was placed as if the split for blue was questioned.
Shouldn't it read violet green ?emerald / ct / blue if there is a > 3% chance in your opinion? Since you are saying there is a chance greater than 3 percent... :wink:
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »


Johan,
Yep, but i let you write it :D

Greater than for sure, could not be less... not soon anyway.

We've had some heavy rain here so i could not take any pics today.


Last edited by Ring0Neck on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by prodigy »

Ben Please be sure to get some pic's of the tail as well and the whole bird including tail.

Thanks in advance ;-)
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »


First pic again + auto level the lighting

Image

and Hue/Sat system

Image
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by prodigy »

thanks Ben, what hue and saturation settings (155/150) are you using as I am not getting the same result ?

The bird is showing up a Violet Green ????
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

Peter,

yes, 155/150
** I add AL at the photo's name if i use Auto-Level

I only used hue/sat after i cleared the excess lighting
use from Menu->Adjustments->Auto-Level (or curves but not precise) only after i use hue sat
here's another pic did not use auto level on it

Image
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

The bird is showing up a Violet Green ????
Because that's what she is
This hen is a Violet Green/Blue/CT bred from the split emerald of Aaron's
as far as we know it does not carry emerald visual or split
i do however see light feet n nails and a slight diff in overall color although i only have older green violets to compare with.


Another pic with FLash !
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/em/P1249180.JPG
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote:i do however see light feet n nails and a slight diff in overall color although i only have older green violets to compare with.
Please keep us posted on how this bird develops, as she has the potential to unlock the mystery. Age also does make a difference, so good that you are keeping that in mind.
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

Johan S wrote:... Age also does make a difference, so good that you are keeping that in mind.
It sure does.
look at the pic below: perched father n sibling grey emeralds
if you have a good large screen you can see the emerald's progression on the young's back n head.


Image

http://parakeet.me/irn/m/em/DSC_1374.jpg

PS: See pic below, Flash used.
emerald iridescence
better if you download the pic and zoom in brightness high on screen 40" or bigger :lol:

http://parakeet.me/irn/m/em/P1249233.JPG
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Mikesringnecks »

Recio wrote:
Gratz wrote:firstly Mikes bird, are we certain it is an Emerald Green as I am under the impression that it was called an Emerald turquoise blue, having turquoise in the makeup of the bird can we truly see if it is green series or blue series Emerald.
Hi Gratz,

Mike's bird was called EmeraldTurquoise Cleartail because it was an Emerald bird producing turquoise chicks and on the basis that Turquoise and Emerald were alleles of the same gene, but not because turquoise was present in the bird's phenotype. We know that Turquoise is not masked by either Emerald (we all have seen patched Emerald Turquoise phenotypes) or Cleartail (as showed by Madas' pics), thus this female producing Turquoise chicks owns the Turquoise gene but it is not expressed in the mother. All this means that the Turquoise gene is carried as split (otherwise we should see the turquoise patches in an adult blue series bird), and an Emerald bird split to Turquoise means that Emerald and Turquoise are not alleles of the same gene, and , thus, the female is a green series bird split for Turquoise (SF Emerald Green Cleartail/Turquoise).
Something else:
1.TurquoiseBlue birds do not show any yellowness in the main wing and tail feathers under normal lighting.... it means that there is not visual psittacin.
2. Willy's pics have shown that Blue and Emerald (Blue series emerald) tail feathers look the same under normal ligthing... it means that the yellowness induced by Emerald (whatever it is structural or pigmentary) is not visible in blue series birds under normal ligthing.
3... so ... where does it come the different colour (yellowish although the pics quality does not reflect what I can see directly probably due to the flash effect) we can see in this female's tail feather under normal lighting? I say that it depends on the normal psittacin present in the tail of green series birds, maybe at a lower level, since Clairtail decreases tail feather psittacins. Probably the amount of psittacins in the tail feather of a Green Emerald bird is even higher and is clearly visible to the naked eye under normal ligthing. Looking at a Green Emerald (or Green/Emerald) under 365 nm uv would confirm that Emerald is dominant and not a parblue (or not :evil: ) and allow to finish this discusion (although I find that we are all learning a lot with this long lasting brainstorm :) ). So, come on people owing Emeralds, try to breed an Emerald to a plain green bird.

Hi Recio
I undertook to photograph the 7 chicks my EmeraldTurquoise Cleartail hen & Violet Cobalt Cleartail cock produced once they finished the juvenile molt and colours were clearer in natural light. They have not quite finished but they are about to start selling so I have acted a bit early. Unfortunately, the photos themselves will have to wait because a Google update has crashed my picasa photo program.
However, a couple interesting points emerged while I had them all together in the photo box.
1. The TurquoiseEmerald Cleartail hen, a juvenile Green Cleartail and a juvenile Dark Blue Emerald Cleartail were photographed together to compare the yellow in their tails and bellies. The yellows were very different, Green strongest, EmeraldTurquoise significantly weaker than Green and Cobalt Emerald very pale in comparison to both the others. This indicates to me that the turquoise gene is probably being expressed in the TurquoiseEmerald hen's phenotype.
2. The yellow in the tails of the 5 Emerald Cleartail juveniles was exactly the same despite them carrying different combinations of structural mutations (Violet Blue, Dark Blue, Violet Dark Blue and Blue). This proves to me that none of them are carrying a turquoise gene as it would produce the same tail colour as their mother.
Your comments would be much appreciated.
Kind regards
Mike
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Gratz »

Hi Mike
I think we are learning a lot more now about the Emeralds.
I and a few other forum members now now that it is a fact that the Emeralds get darker and true to colour as they mature.
I also think that you will find that your young emeralds will start to show a yellowish tinge on the underside of their tails as time goes on,usually from 5 months onward. I found this to be a trait of the Emeralds weather they carry Turquoise or not .

regards
Gratz
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by Ring0Neck »

Regarding Emerald <=> Parblue

J F has paired this year a Green/Blue Cleartail X DF Emerald poss split CT hen
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Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Post by prodigy »

Pictures please Sir, especially of the GreyGreen Emerald CT. I would like to see what it shows up under the filters.
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