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indigo violet blue ?

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smick
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indigo violet blue ?

Post by smick » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:46 pm

G'day all, from my Indigo blue cock to violet blue hen I have bred 2 good coloured violets,1 indigo blue and 1 that should be indigo violet blue.
This bird has some green in wings but overall is more a dark blue than violet blue in colour is it possible the mother is a dark violet blue as is very dark purple in colour. I asked when purchased if she was df violet blue as she is so dark but told no. If she is dark violet blue would that make this youngster a cobolt indigo blue?.
young for this year from pr1 - indigo blue cock x violet blue hen- 2 violet blues,1 indigo blue and the indigo violet blue in question.
p2 - turquoise blue pallid cock x blue hen- 2 blue pallid hens and 1 blue cock/pallid
pr3 - green pallidino cock x blue pallid hen 2 green pallids .
pr 4 - turquoise blue cock x creamino hen - 2 turquoise young (1 very strong coloured in turq), 1 blue, and 1 creamino.
I cant download photo's to show this indigo violet blue as compared to its siblings and the other 2 normal blues I have bred. I tried to set up photo bucket but virus protection wont allow :roll: Thanks Smick.

Johan S
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Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by Johan S » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:28 am

Smick, very hard to tell without photos, but from your description you sound on the right track suspecting dark for pair 1.

Indian Ringneck Vic
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Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:06 pm

Smick the indigovioletblue you refer to as being dark is a common result when a good quality violet has been used in the parent pair and this is what I suspect has occurd in your case . A friend of mine has been surmising for years now that violet quality is governed by a host of contributing factors that have been brought about by outside influences this can crossing out to different colour morphs and mutations etc . As the violet mutation has only been commonly available for a relatively short time these influences have confused what the true morph should look like . I know that there is an argument out there that the only way to tell true morph colour is to DF and the homozygous prodigy will reveal the true identity but then what identity are you revealing ? We discused this amongst ourselves approximately 5 years ago and decided to enter into a violet program and surprisingly the results were pleasing at the outset we both now are constantly asked if our violets are DF when they are not I did produce my first DF violetblue last year and there is a huge difference in expression between it and our SF model . We also applied a similer model to our cobalts and now we have SF models that are a close morhotype to our SF violetblues. This this post can be expanded on if there is enough interest out there. I would be happy to post photo's however I've been unable if you visit my web-site there are plenty.

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Skyes_crew
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Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by Skyes_crew » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:51 pm

From an American point of view, I would be very interested to see your results. My violets come from an original violet blue hen (who I also have) produced by Gordon Hayes. It is very hard to tell the SF from the DF though once they pass their first molt. I'm curious to know what birds you used in your program. What is their origin? And because I'm not too sure, can you post a link to your site so I can view your pictures? Thanks :)
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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sheyd
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Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by sheyd » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:53 pm

Indian Ringneck Vic wrote: As the violet mutation has only been commonly available for a relatively short time these influences have confused what the true morph should look like .

Hi Paul,
I am currently of the belief that there are in fact two Violet mutations- one of which is darker than the other- and because of these two strains- people often mistake the darker strain for a df in sf.


Melissa- here's the page I think Paul was referring to: http://www.indianringneckvic.com/apps/p ... d=13833651

Indian Ringneck Vic
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Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:27 am

Hi mel and sheyd first my model was based on American violet this is most important second this will only work if all the i's and t's are crossed and dotted . I prefer to base my model on the aquision on the cock (violet) . Sheyd I agree with your comment that there are two phenotypes of violets being light and dark and importantly they are also genotype different and yes they have been crossed and mixed . The reason I chose the American violet is this is the phenotype I find the most stunning . The other reason for chosing the American in Australia is there are still reliable stocks available from a core of good breeders. This model would work on either American or European gene stocks thou the later may not be easily found in a original gene pool .???We have applied this model to European cobalts however due to the unavailability of a complete range we have had to alter our model and although we have had some success with our SF cobalts we are still way short of a full deck. Rather than turn this post into a long drawn out blurb I would prefer to release information in point form as and when the information is requested this way I have chance to digest the information I'm publishing and it also gives interested parties time to follow my model. I must appologise for not posting my web-site I was'nt sure if it was appropriate thank-you Sheyd for your help. Please be patient I'm sure all will benefit and remember this is a tried program .

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Skyes_crew
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Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:26 am

Thank you Shey. :)

Paul, I have been on a bit of a scavenger hunt for awhile now. Now that's a long drawn out story lol. But it is part of the reason I ask if you know the history/origin of your stock. Not just where you acquired your cock bird, but the cock birds actual history. Do you have pictures of a nest containing both SF and DF and then comparison photos of the same birds at a year old? That I would LOVE to see. I'd appreciate any info you'd be willing to share :D

Mel
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Johan S
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Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by Johan S » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:59 am

Paul, I am ALWAYS interested in other people's opinion and experience with violets.

Indian Ringneck Vic
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Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:21 pm

PART 3 - Selection of the Cock this is going to be the key that will make or break this model. First we are talking about American Violet and it is important that this selection process is based on selecting the closest genotype as possible to the original Violet Green stock from where these originated. It is important that the bird selected has a history that is known to be clear of any other colour morphs or mutations that may reflect influences that are not visible to the eye. Having selected this bird which I would base my model on being a Violet Green the next step in the process is to double factor this bird, this is to be done to enable to visualise the full expression. You now have the opportunity of selecting a DF Violet Green that displays all the quality you require for your model to continue. The selection of the Hen in the above pairing is as equally important to select only a specimen that is free of any recessive gene other than Blue and in this instance this bird maybe a Violet Blue that has been selected on the quality of the birds expression and its known history. To be continued.

Below the pic of a SF Violet Green and DF Violet Green to show difference of expression between each. These are unrelated birds and a pic of a DF Violet Green which is the same bird in both photos tho being a couple of years apart and this DF Violet Green is our progenitor that was used in our program.

Cheers
Paul
Attachments
DF Violet Green with SF Violet Green.jpg
DF Violet Green & SF Violet Green
DF Violet Green with SF Violet Green.jpg (21.75 KiB) Viewed 1143 times
DF Violet Green.jpg
DF Violet Green
DF Violet Green.jpg (17.29 KiB) Viewed 1143 times

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Skyes_crew
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Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:02 pm

Beautiful birds :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Johan S
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Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by Johan S » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:21 am

Thanks Paul. Great looking birds.

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sheyd
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Re: indigo violet blue ?

Post by sheyd » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:07 am

lovely birds- and in my favorite series :mrgreen:

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