Emerald and Emerald turquoise
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Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Mike,
Busy times for me, & besides I prefer if someone else does it.
As Recio says in other words... nothing will suffice.
I can put whoever wants to go in touch with Aaron.
Busy times for me, & besides I prefer if someone else does it.
As Recio says in other words... nothing will suffice.
I can put whoever wants to go in touch with Aaron.
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Mikesringnecks wrote: with the chick showing more florescence, then we have visual confirmation that they are a split emerald parent and an EmeraldBlue chick, thereby confirming your initial proposition.
Hi Mike and Recio, unless I'm missing something, I don't think I agree with that. If the parent is a green SF emerald, it will show the fluorescence of the emerald mutation and possibly also the fluorescence of the patched psittacin (unless it is masked by emerald). The fledgling will show the fluorescence of the emerald mutation as well. If the parent is a green / emerald, it will mostly likely show the fluorescence of the patched psittacin, and the green / emerald chick will show no fluorescence. In either case, the best possible outcome is the chick will show the same fluorescence (emerald as an incomplete dominant mutation) as the parent, or less (emerald as a recessive parblue), but not more.Recio wrote:You are 100% rigth.
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Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Hi Johan
It does get a bit complicated because the genetic makeup of parent and chick seem to change over time. However, my current understanding is that the parent is Violet Green and carries an emerald gene either split or single factor and the chick is Violet EmeraldBlue or Violet Blue sf emerald.
If the chick is EmeraldBlue I assume it will show emerald type florescence under UV light, whist the split parent will show lower level florescence from its non florescent yellow pigment. If they are both sf emeralds, I am assuming their UV signatures would be similar.
However, it is probably now all pointless as Ben doesn't seem to want to pursue the matter. I would have thought that even a visual observation of the pair under UV illumination would be useful without the need for photography.
Kind regards
Mike
It does get a bit complicated because the genetic makeup of parent and chick seem to change over time. However, my current understanding is that the parent is Violet Green and carries an emerald gene either split or single factor and the chick is Violet EmeraldBlue or Violet Blue sf emerald.
If the chick is EmeraldBlue I assume it will show emerald type florescence under UV light, whist the split parent will show lower level florescence from its non florescent yellow pigment. If they are both sf emeralds, I am assuming their UV signatures would be similar.
However, it is probably now all pointless as Ben doesn't seem to want to pursue the matter. I would have thought that even a visual observation of the pair under UV illumination would be useful without the need for photography.
Kind regards
Mike
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Hi Johan,
That is what I was understanding from Mike's words. Maybe we understood different birds when speaking about the chick (suppossed split Emerald or his son showing Emerald)
Recio
That is what I was understanding from Mike's words. Maybe we understood different birds when speaking about the chick (suppossed split Emerald or his son showing Emerald)
Recio
Last edited by Recio on Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Ah, I'm with you again. My bad. For Aaron's experiment, my interest is mostly with the green offspring (green emerald / blue or green / emerald). I always forget about the blue/parblue offspring, probably because I think they don't contribute anything new to the puzzle.Mikesringnecks wrote:If the chick is EmeraldBlue I assume it will show emerald type florescence under UV light, whist the split parent will show lower level florescence from its non florescent yellow pigment.
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Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
G,Day Mike , As you can see on my web site , the use of UV light will give you a real good insight to what your dealing with , why not drop overand borrow my gear??
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Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Hi Chris
Will do, thanks a lot
Kind regards
Mike
Will do, thanks a lot
Kind regards
Mike
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Some comparing pics of two emeraldblue tail to two blue tail feathers (pics made by Willy):
So who is able to pick the emerald feathers?
madas
So who is able to pick the emerald feathers?
madas
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Great pics (thanks Willy) and Madas
I've no experience with Emerald, and I'm basing my guess off of the 2 bluest
Whilst looking on my phone- but will guess the middle 2 are Emerald, because they appear greener..
?
I've no experience with Emerald, and I'm basing my guess off of the 2 bluest
Whilst looking on my phone- but will guess the middle 2 are Emerald, because they appear greener..
?
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Hi Madas,
Could you tell Willy to take the pics under natural sun ligth? .... just to see how the apparent hue depends on ligth spectrum and iridescence.
Recio
Could you tell Willy to take the pics under natural sun ligth? .... just to see how the apparent hue depends on ligth spectrum and iridescence.
Recio
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Not me, no psittacin there...madas wrote:So who is able to pick the emerald feathers?
madas
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Yeah and that's the strange thing.Johan S wrote:Not me, no psittacin there...madas wrote:So who is able to pick the emerald feathers?
madas
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Compare this tail
Bird is obviously in moult.
Bird is obviously in moult.
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Madas, so which ones are the emerald tail feathers? Time to reveal the mystery.
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
I too think the 2 in the middle are emerald as Shey said.
The blue has darker colored the right side of the feather, barely visible (or i'm seeing things ) .
I think the idea of the feather example is to show the emerald is at the blue locus we know.
For breeders that have Indigo, Emerald is not that special anymore, close phenotype to Indigo esp. when young in the nest, it is however when you compare mature Emerald V Turq.
The blue has darker colored the right side of the feather, barely visible (or i'm seeing things ) .
I think the idea of the feather example is to show the emerald is at the blue locus we know.
For breeders that have Indigo, Emerald is not that special anymore, close phenotype to Indigo esp. when young in the nest, it is however when you compare mature Emerald V Turq.
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
According to Willy the two left feathers are the emerald. Under UV they show a slight fluorescence but not as much as on the body compared to Deons pics.Johan S wrote:Madas, so which ones are the emerald tail feathers? Time to reveal the mystery.
madas
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Emerald = line breeded Indigo to eliminate the patchiness???Ring0Neck wrote:I too think the 2 in the middle are emerald as Shey said.
The blue has darker colored the right side of the feather, barely visible (or i'm seeing things ) .
I think the idea of the feather example is to show the emerald is at the blue locus we know.
For breeders that have Indigo, Emerald is not that special anymore, close phenotype to Indigo esp. when young in the nest, it is however when you compare mature Emerald V Turq.
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Has anyone bred these colours to show a comparison, emerald cobalt, emerald SF violet, emerald cobalt SF violet ? or is that being to adventurous yet. (I know Mike has in cleartail.)
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Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Madas maybe now fancy that .
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Ben, I don't think that is a very relevant comparison. I could take feathers of SLino and NSLino that look identical and show that we are dealing with different locii too.Ring0Neck wrote:I think the idea of the feather example is to show the emerald is at the blue locus we know.
I was sure about the feather second on the left, but not about the one on the left and the one second to right. On different PC screens I would alter between these two.madas wrote:According to Willy the two left feathers are the emerald. Under UV they show a slight fluorescence but not as much as on the body compared to Deons pics.Johan S wrote:Madas, so which ones are the emerald tail feathers? Time to reveal the mystery.
madas
Is there anybody that uses the main tail feather to identify emerald? I usually look for other identifiers.
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Hi Madas,madas wrote:According to Willy the two left feathers are the emerald. Under UV they show a slight fluorescence but not as much as on the body compared to Deons pics.Johan S wrote:Madas, so which ones are the emerald tail feathers? Time to reveal the mystery.
madas
In that pic we can not see either the yellow colour or the iridescence in the tail feathers. Should we conclude that yellowness is coupled to iridescence? The difference between both mutations is only visible (for those feathers) under uv .... would this difference also be visible under natural sun ligth? Could sun ligth make appear the "yellowness" and the iridescence, or only one of them, or none at all? If both were present it would point to an structural yellow rather than a pigmentary yellow.
Regards
Recio
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Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
EMEROLD= LINE BREED INDIGO TO ELEMINATE PATCHINESS . ???
This statement is just so WRONG in so many ways. It doesnt matter how many times you Line Breed or In-Breed you will NEVER produce Emerolds from Turquoise. One of the greatest CON jobs ever pulled in Australia was the sale of PastleAquas,were 100s of people bought PastleAquas hoping to breed Aquas [ Emerolds ] PastleAqua = Indigo
This was the main reason Babu Re-Named the Turquoise family into 3 sections Turquoise ,,Indigo and Saphire , Although you never hear of Turquoise or Saphire as it seems all ozys only breed Idigo for some reason.??
Even when you did breed a look-a-like ,there babies when breed to Ino or Harlequin will still be Turquoise and display Turquoise charastics.
Both these Mutations are Beautiful ,both in there own way.
ADDED PICS OF MY COBALT EMEROLD HARLEQUIN TO COMPARE TO INDIGO COBALT HARLEQUIN.
This statement is just so WRONG in so many ways. It doesnt matter how many times you Line Breed or In-Breed you will NEVER produce Emerolds from Turquoise. One of the greatest CON jobs ever pulled in Australia was the sale of PastleAquas,were 100s of people bought PastleAquas hoping to breed Aquas [ Emerolds ] PastleAqua = Indigo
This was the main reason Babu Re-Named the Turquoise family into 3 sections Turquoise ,,Indigo and Saphire , Although you never hear of Turquoise or Saphire as it seems all ozys only breed Idigo for some reason.??
Even when you did breed a look-a-like ,there babies when breed to Ino or Harlequin will still be Turquoise and display Turquoise charastics.
Both these Mutations are Beautiful ,both in there own way.
ADDED PICS OF MY COBALT EMEROLD HARLEQUIN TO COMPARE TO INDIGO COBALT HARLEQUIN.
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
First: I read it as a question and not as a statement. So i think he ask it to start a discussion with a new point of view.mcw-indianringnecks wrote:EMEROLD= LINE BREED INDIGO TO ELEMINATE PATCHINESS . ???
This statement is just so WRONG in so many ways.
Second: It is a fact that an Indigo has a aqua (emerald) like body color. Not as deep as an aqua but the base color is fitting. See here:
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... ald#p90692
greetings the other Chris
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
BTW: I don't think a breeder who is saying words like this "After buying the world famous Clearwing Cleartail from my mate Gary I bought DF Violets and Mauve (DF Cobalt) to bred to the Clearwing Cleartail's; as they don't even exist, I no longer have a use for the DF Violets." should judging others comment. These words don't testify of great knowlegde within the bird breeding sector.mcw-indianringnecks wrote: EMEROLD= LINE BREED INDIGO TO ELEMINATE PATCHINESS . ???
This statement is just so WRONG in so many ways.
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Here are the feathers in full sunlight. Still no difference:
Willys words: "In full sunlight the feathers appear identical top side and bottom. Interestingly the EmeraldBlue feathers fluoresce more strongly underneath than above."
Regards.
madas
Willys words: "In full sunlight the feathers appear identical top side and bottom. Interestingly the EmeraldBlue feathers fluoresce more strongly underneath than above."
Regards.
madas
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
I suggest & i believe i speak for most of us Willy to rejoin the forum.
We need to communicate with each other !!!! and yes lesson learnt for all i guess, lets move on pls
Ben
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
I am definitely for, even if Madas is a great translator.Ring0Neck wrote:
I suggest & i believe i speak for most of us Willy to rejoin the forum.
We need to communicate with each other !!!! and yes lesson learnt for all i guess, lets move on pls
Ben
Recio
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Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
If this forum is to move forward the return of degrading and disrespectfull behavior should not be tolerated. I am against this motion.Ring0Neck wrote:
I suggest & i believe i speak for most of us Willy to rejoin the forum.
We need to communicate with each other !!!! and yes lesson learnt for all i guess, lets move on pls
Ben
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Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Chris I have seen this indigo blue earlier in a private communique and agreed it is phenotypical of the line I have here in Australia and I mostly agree with your comments above thou I point out when the subject indigo blue when line bred the aqua intensifies I am still in early stages with my program thou I can state the F2 birds are in some cases darker than the emerald as dipicted and described by JS and TMartin in thier ABK article however I am carefull here to point out that these aqua variants in the indigo are still patchy.Chriskoi wrote:First: I read it as a question and not as a statement. So i think he ask it to start a discussion with a new point of view.mcw-indianringnecks wrote:EMEROLD= LINE BREED INDIGO TO ELEMINATE PATCHINESS . ???
This statement is just so WRONG in so many ways.
Second: It is a fact that an Indigo has a aqua (emerald) like body color. Not as deep as an aqua but the base color is fitting. See here:
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... ald#p90692
greetings the other Chris
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
After the above comments may be we could reformulate Madas words as:madas wrote:Emerald = line breeded Indigo to eliminate the patchiness???
Aqua = line breeded Indigo to eliminate the patchiness???
I agree with Chris that it is not possible to produce Emerald by line breeding Indigos (or even the very speculative Saphire ) but may be we could get an Aqua-like bird as described in other species, which could be specifically identified by its uv signature (total lack of fluorescence under uv) together with a lack of patchiness and a decrease (about 50%) of the even psittacin.
@ Criskoi: we all understood what Madas was refering to ... and also what Chris was answering. Let's keep cool
Regards
Recio
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Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Hi All
I too would very much like to have Willy back on the forum.
Kind regards
Mike
I too would very much like to have Willy back on the forum.
Kind regards
Mike
Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
You need a willy for many reason, I think we are poorer for not having him here, so I hope he comes back too!