What colour are these?

[Kimma]

I've only just started learning about the genetics of IRN and still wrapping my head around it.

These are the parents of my IRN, and am working out the right terminology for their colouring.

They are both a beautiful pastel blue as you can see. So they are both blues, but they are not as dark as other blues I've seen. Am I right in thinking they are also pallids? Does being pallid make them lighter all over? Or does it just make the head lighter? The male also has a lovely mauve on the back of his head, but his head isn't lighter than the rest of him like the female. But they are also are a bit of a greeny blue, as is my chick. Do they still count as blue? They look a bit like the aqua blues I've found photos of, but I've also read that they are very rare, so I can't imagine they're aqua.

My chick is only just getting feathers but they are much darker than either parent. Should chicks from these 2 turn out looking the same as them? Will hir feathers get lighter as zie matures? Here is my chick for comparison.

[Skyes_crew]

My guess would be a blue pallid hen and a cinnamon blue cock. Is that what your thinking molossus? So if that's the pairing, then the baby is a blue cock split for cinnamon pallid

[Kimma]

I checked and

Both have black eyes,
The hen has pink feet,
The cock has pinky grey feet.

[Kimma]

then the baby is a blue cock split for cinnamon pallid

Do you mean that a hen would look obviously different?

The babies have similar feather colour but the legs are different.

One has pinky grey feet with dark nails, black eyes.
But mine (pictured above) has the grey feet.

[Skyes_crew]

With the hen she may have dark red eyes. Try taking a picture with a flash to see if she displays red eye in the picture.

If both babies display the same feather color and the pairing is as I stated, then they are both males. If it was a hen, it would be a cinnamon blue or sky blue as it is commonly known.

[sheyd]

Cinnamon also has * "red eyes".

Take a pic with a mobile phone rather than a camera- some (like mine) don't pick it up.

*pupils appear red with a flash- they are not visual 'red' when looking with your eye in an adult bird.

Pallid iris and pupil (full sunlight, no flash) with camera :


same bird different time- using phone:

[Kimma]

So if that's the pairing, then the baby is a blue cock split for cinnamon pallid

Ok, I read some more about sex-linked recessive mutations and I understand a bit better, but I'm still not 100%.

Assuming that's the pairing...

Females would have to be cinammon blue because they can only inherit cinnamon or pallid from the father, and they get blue from both parents.

Males are plain blue because they get blue from both parents and cinnamon/pallid split from both parents, but that split has no visible effect. That's the bit I'm not clear on - why doesn't at least one of cinnamon or pallid do something?

Thanks for the help so far btw, this is so confusing. Though I suspect I'll have an 'ohhhhhh' moment sometime soon and it will all click into place.

[Skyes_crew]

Ok for a sex linked recessive mutation a male baby must receive two copies, one from each parent, for it to visually express itself otherwise it can only be split to the mutation. But a female baby only requires the dad to be at least split for the mutation to visually express it.

So assuming your pair... Blue Cinnamon Cock x Blue Pallid Hen...any female babies would inherit the blue and cinnamon visually from dad and any male babies would inherit blue visually from both parents and cinnamon and pallid splits from both parents. Is that a bit clearer?

[Kimma]

Yep, makes perfect sense now. Thanks so much

But to test myself, is this correct...

If you paired a cock back with the mother, you would get

50% of hens being blue cinammon and 50% being blue pallid
50% of cocks being blue cinammon/pallid split and 50% being blue pallid

If you paired a hen back with the father, you would get

100% of male and female being blue cinammon

[Skyes_crew]

Sort of.... Because the male baby would inherit the cinnamon-pallid it changes the results slightly


blue /cinnamon-pallid x blue pallid

Male babies - the first two are small chances. The second two about 48% chance

blue pallid
blue /cinnamon pallid
blue /pallid
blue pallid /cinnamon

Female babies - first two small chance second two about 48% chance

blue pallid
blue cinnamon
blue
blue pallid cinnamon

The other scenario of pairing the female baby back to the dad would result in 100% cinnamon blue... You are correct

[Kimma]

blue pallid
blue /cinnamon pallid
blue /pallid
blue pallid /cinnamon

And I thought I had it!

I don't understand the notation here - what's the difference between the first two and the second two?

[Skyes_crew]

Only the percentage of chance of achieving that mutation in the offspring. So the first two mutations have a very low likelihood of being produced and the second two have an almost 50% chance of being produced.basically your more likely to produce blue/pallid and blue pallid/cinnamon in male babies and blue and blue pallid cinnamon in female babies.