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Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:38 pm
by trabots
Good stuff Madas, they are the end birds? These appear slightly different shades, are other mutations involved. Is the middle bird a Blue or a Parblue?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:41 pm
by trabots
detailed info will be discussed on the genetics ext.


Sorry, I failed to see this. Where can we find??

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:57 pm
by Ring0Neck
Working on it now Willy.

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:30 pm
by sheyd
nice job- will be following with much interest

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:27 am
by trabots
Well for once we have a mutation name which has nothing to do with colour but has many meanings in Hindi for great wealth. The departed Beatle, George Harrison's son Dhani fits the bill, with a worth of some $250 million.

I too look forward to the fledged images and of course will then be trying to find the same mutation extant in another species of parrot. Madas, what was the situation it was found in or did it appear in an aviary. The colours look very interesting and one immediately wonders what the Blue series looks like unless of course it is a Parblue.

Impatient for info is an understatement. You are a cruel dude Madas.

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:38 am
by Ring0Neck
Willy.

It's Molossus that has posted these birds

Find info here
http://ringneck-genetics.com/index.php/ ... cts-forum3

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:46 am
by madas
Ring0Neck wrote:Willy.
It's Molossus that has posted these birds


Yeah. Molossus != madas. :D

Not your Day Willy, isn't it. ;)

the true madas. :lol:

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:29 am
by trabots
Just testing you ...............hah, I mean duh! Meanwhile are these pics related at all? Don't know where they came from.

[url][URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/Trabots/media/Trabots%20IRNs/DSC02844.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]

[url][URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/Trabots/media/Trabots%20IRNs/brown.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:10 am
by Ring0Neck
Interesting, the second pic reminds me of my grey from the sl edged cinnamon pair, somewhat different.
i no longer have him
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgez.jpg

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:32 pm
by prodigy
Stunning bird Lee !

looks very similar to a turquoise grey cinnamon

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:44 pm
by prodigy
Thank you Sir !

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:35 am
by Ring0Neck
Molossus.
I'll take them :D

on a serious note ; you have hands on experience with most mutations out there.
I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:04 am
by prodigy
Wow I love the green bird the color is quite intense, would love to see that in Opaline (nudge nudge)

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:05 pm
by Ring0Neck
Exciting Stuff !!

Keep us in the loop with progress.

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:27 pm
by sheyd
a new Grey??? Do you know what does it do with Violet?

anymore coming--- fascinating!

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:28 pm
by sheyd
trabots wrote:Well for once we have a mutation name which has nothing to do with colour but has many meanings in Hindi for great wealth. The departed Beatle, George Harrison's son Dhani fits the bill, with a worth of some $250 million.



I found this (granted it has an extra 'a'):

Dhaani means light green. It has come from a word called 'Dhaan' that is the outer covering of a raw grain of rice (kacha chawal ka daana). The green color of that grain is called dhaani.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhaani

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:31 am
by Johan S
What strange new marvels yet await us? These birds are really something! :D Any chance of uploading a picture of the rumps and bellies of these birds? From this last picture I'd guess we are looking at a blue dhani and grey(blue) dhani.

Did you breed any non-dhani out of the pair to give us some clues on the hen?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:38 am
by trabots
Molossus, is this the pairing? Blue x Dhani /Blue? Just because the birds are grey coloured doesn't mean Grey is involved. Why would your source mess things up with a new mutation by putting Grey into them?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:40 am
by trabots
the cock paired to a blue/ctail bred a violet grey bird...go figure???


I presume that the Violet Grey was proven by breeding? Grey would mask Violet so how else would you know? If the cock indeed bred a Grey I would use a different Blue which you know breeds normally, otherwise you are adding another huge uncertainty to the understanding of the Dhani. The Blue cock which breeds Greys needs further investigation on its own, again by using a straight Blue.

Which of the 2 young looks like the mother?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:13 am
by prodigy
Molossus, Sir

Do they look anything like this in the flesh ?

Image

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:08 pm
by madas
prodigy wrote:Molossus, Sir

Do they look anything like this in the flesh ?

Image


Looks like an emerald grey cleartail.

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:52 pm
by keeskk16
if i see the tail feathers it looks like there is some sort of misty in it (purple)

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:46 pm
by trabots
My dhani hen is a mustard brown bird. It has an overtone of mauve. None of the chicks look like their mother.


One of the young is clearly a Blue, the other is not. In order for one to be Blue the Dhani hen is split Blue. For neither chick to look like the mother, either of the parents has to have another dominant (or dominant in Blue series) mutation extant. As the cock is Blue that leaves the hen which then cannot be the phenotype of a 'clean' Dhani. You might have a chick like the hen in the 2nd clutch. In any event IMO one of the 1st two chicks is the Dhani phenotype, not the mother. How about a pic of the mother?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:54 pm
by sheyd
wow, how close are those two names- Dhaani and Dhania!? - thanks for the true origin of the name :)

my guess is the Blue chick is a 'clean' Dhani (in blue series without any other modifier/mutant gene) the other imo carries Grey--- which if my theory is correct, would make the dam a Greygreen Dhani.

looking forward to more pics

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:38 pm
by bennjamin
Maybe the dam could be a sf violet/ blue or even be both , sf dark and sf violet ?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:17 pm
by Sherjil
Hi Lee; I found a violet series Dhani snap on babu's profile. He was calling it a "dhani lavender grey" :s which means it should be a dhani violet cinnamon grey , but I dnt see any cinnamon features. Also grey shd mask the violet... may be its just a Dhani Violet Blue.

Anyways the bird looks stunning :)


Image

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:43 pm
by Johan S
trabots wrote:
My dhani hen is a mustard brown bird. It has an overtone of mauve. None of the chicks look like their mother.


One of the young is clearly a Blue, the other is not. In order for one to be Blue the Dhani hen is split Blue. For neither chick to look like the mother, either of the parents has to have another dominant (or dominant in Blue series) mutation extant. As the cock is Blue that leaves the hen which then cannot be the phenotype of a 'clean' Dhani. You might have a chick like the hen in the 2nd clutch. In any event IMO one of the 1st two chicks is the Dhani phenotype, not the mother. How about a pic of the mother?


Willy, I agree. My guess would be the mother is a greygreen Dhani, the father blue, and we are looking at dhani blue and dhani grey (blue) offspring. Greygreen is the best mutation when working towards a brownish phenotype. We see it in edged and cinnamon combinations with greygreen. Greygreen misty isn't brown, but I tend to agree with keeskk16 as well that there are certain misty traits here present too. This mutation seems to be some mixture of misty and emerald combined in one.

In this pic, I think the dhani chick at the left is a dhani blue. The dhani chick on the right I'd say is dhani grey. And if this is the case, clearly our "traditional" structural analysis would indicate that dhani isn't a deeper structural mutation, but rather on the feather cortex or due to psittacin.
Image

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:36 am
by trabots
Molossus, the first order of business now is to breed a clean Dhani. Babu sure makes us work for it. Can you get an image from him of the original mutant?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:38 am
by trabots
Sherjil, where can we find "Babu's profile"? Cheers.

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:55 am
by madas
trabots wrote:Sherjil, where can we find "Babu's profile"? Cheers.


I guess it's on fatzebook. :D

madas

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:45 am
by sheyd
Have we an update? :D

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:10 am
by king kong
Hi
here under is the link of Babu's facecbook
https://www.facebook.com/brijesh.chauhan1

but some one has mentioned early that he usually mentioned species name in his own way sometimes these terms really make me confused

but no doubt he is having one of the Stunning n astounding birds in the world

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:59 am
by Johan S
Molossus, how about an update to this topic please? :)

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:22 pm
by Johan S
molossus wrote:foursome with 'grey' dhani
Image
...
twosome with grey dhani
Image

comments welcome.


Thanks for the pics, Molossus. They really are turning into something very interesting. A really stunning collection of chicks. The two birds highlighted above appears to have a different phenotype from the pictures, with the first one showing some psittacin (to me, at least). Do you think it could be a greygreen dhani perhaps?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:04 pm
by prodigy
After having seen these birds in the flesh, I can truly say they are something else. With a fluorescence like nothing I have ever seen before in a IRN.

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:52 am
by Johan S
molossus wrote:Johan yours in an interesting submission. Initially I thought this to be a blue series bird (when i asked for opinions , members agreed) Now , with the bird showing more a blending of blue green (dull jadeblue) this could even be a parblue mutation. Since two grey babies(one in each clutch) also appear parblue too , I have a little more work cut out . Now I am not even certain that the blue series is actually a green series Dhani.. I will match to produce green and blue series birds from the same parents.


Agreed, that could very well be the case too, depending on whether the dame is split to blue or parblue.

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:48 pm
by Ring0Neck
Molossus,
Here they are in Hue/Sat 155/150 Paint.Net Dimension

Note: See how they change color slightly diff. in every pic.

Image

Image

Image


Image

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:24 pm
by Johan S
Molossus, I'm not questioning whether dhani is dominant, but rather wondering what the hen is split for. I would be very surprised if she is already a DF dhani, as that would require two dhani parents. Did you achieve 100% dhani offspring to suspect this in some of the options of what the hen could be?

prodigy wrote:After having seen these birds in the flesh, I can truly say they are something else. With a fluorescence like nothing I have ever seen before in a IRN.


Pro, how sure are you about fluorescent? From the photos I'd suspect they are rather iridescent than fluorescent (at this age, at least). Did you guys test with a UV light to confirm a shift in wavelength of the UV light?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:29 am
by prodigy
I spent allot of time just staring at these birds from every angle :-)

I still say florescent and not iridescent as the color remains the same at any angle (it almost like they have a thin layer of chrome over them, and VERY brightly colored) when Lee said to me the first time they look nothing like in the pictures I thought he was joking.These birds in the flesh look very different to the pictures.

Its as if someone has implanted light-bulbs in these birds, you can spot them from meters away out of all the other cages they just stand out.

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:47 am
by Ring0Neck
Molossus,

Would the Dhani be similar to Babu's Saddlebacks?
I'd say; pair one Dhani to a Harlequin next season.


Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:12 am
by Johan S
molossus wrote:Johan hi. In trying to uncover the exact nature of this mutation I have to set aside any preconceived notions and apply a default countdown,, and conduct ongoing tests to eliminate any possibility of the bird being erroneously identified.
I am mindful of the parblue issue with emerald and turq and how differently we all perceive these mutations. since i do have emerald green in alexandrines (tests ongoing for elimination of doubt) I am unwilling to short cut the testing process.
the dhani chicks appears a blend of color (total chicks bred this season = 3 total dhani chicks = 3
1 chick appears bluegreenblend and 2 greybrownblend .
this raises questions about the dhani mother hen...it appears greygreen ish with a mauve sheen
this means that the mother is likely a green series bird...or could it be a parblue df ie consider a parblue turq df grey series. this bird will appear greygreen(remember my df greyturq cock loaned to Carmen,, that is completely greygreen in appearance.) I am the first to doubt the hen to be a df dhani(there were only two stock birds out there and the hen is one of these.) but stranger things have happened.
when i paired the dhani greygreen hen to a blue cock I hoped to breed a green dhani but will have to conduct further tests to verify each dhani color series.
I want the forum members to bombard me with theories ... Willy write to me.
Ringo hi. I am not sure that the saddleback is a dhani relative. in fact i do not think there is a relationship. but you never know until you know. I will breed the dhani to dom pied in due time. perhaps in 2015. I do not have enough material .. only one adult hen and three offspring. This time out i paired the hen to a turq violet. any thoughts on this decision forumites??


Molossus, I don't think you are jumping the gun at all and respect the cautious approach you follow. Regarding your last thought, I'd rather use a cobalt violet and breed one generation towards cobalt and violet (possibly even both) without any turquoise (or another parblue) yet. If you are lucky, you could start answering the dhani + dark factor and dhani + violet factor questions in one season. I'd rather focus on pure blue series and green series, rather than parblues, which would give an intermediate and possibly confusing result.

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:52 pm
by Sherjil
trabots wrote:Sherjil, where can we find "Babu's profile"? Cheers.


here you go :) https://www.facebook.com/brijesh.chauhan1

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:35 pm
by Sherjil
molossus wrote:Johan hi. In trying to uncover the exact nature of this mutation I have to set aside any preconceived notions and apply a default countdown,, and conduct ongoing tests to eliminate any possibility of the bird being erroneously identified.
I am mindful of the parblue issue with emerald and turq and how differently we all perceive these mutations. since i do have emerald green in alexandrines (tests ongoing for elimination of doubt) I am unwilling to short cut the testing process.
the dhani chicks appears a blend of color (total chicks bred this season = 3 total dhani chicks = 3
1 chick appears bluegreenblend and 2 greybrownblend .
this raises questions about the dhani mother hen...it appears greygreen ish with a mauve sheen
this means that the mother is likely a green series bird...or could it be a parblue df ie consider a parblue turq df grey series. this bird will appear greygreen(remember my df greyturq cock loaned to Carmen,, that is completely greygreen in appearance.) I am the first to doubt the hen to be a df dhani(there were only two stock birds out there and the hen is one of these.) but stranger things have happened.
when i paired the dhani greygreen hen to a blue cock I hoped to breed a green dhani but will have to conduct further tests to verify each dhani color series.
I want the forum members to bombard me with theories ... Willy write to me.
Ringo hi. I am not sure that the saddleback is a dhani relative. in fact i do not think there is a relationship. but you never know until you know. I will breed the dhani to dom pied in due time. perhaps in 2015. I do not have enough material .. only one adult hen and three offspring. This time out i paired the hen to a turq violet. any thoughts on this decision forumites??


Hi Lee & All;

I see members and yourself are using "grey" along with "dhani" to describe the chicks and their mother's visual appearence. Are you just refering to phenotype or you actually believe that grey is involved in the genotype of these birds ?

If the ans to above question is YES then following question :
Please correct me if I am wrong. I believe grey destroys the feather structure completely this is the reason why we cant distinguish visual difference between a SF grey and a DF grey. Having said that this is also the reason why grey can mask other structural mutations like Dark Factor or Violet Factor. If Dhani is "only" structural mutation how come grey is not masking Dhani ? I.e. how come one of the chick is described as dhani grey blue ?

Can you please upload their mother's snaps ?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:01 am
by Johan S
Sherjil, the grey mutation destroys the feather structure in the spongy zone of the feather, but not on the cortex. Any type of structural mutation acting on the outer layer of the feather barbule would not be influenced by the grey mutation. I believe there is a very good chance that this is what we are seeing with the misty mutation too.

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:52 am
by Mad Max
Hi lee
Do you have a picture of the grey with blue head . I would like to see it

Regards
Robert

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:43 pm
by Sherjil
Johan S wrote:Sherjil, the grey mutation destroys the feather structure in the spongy zone of the feather, but not on the cortex. Any type of structural mutation acting on the outer layer of the feather barbule would not be influenced by the grey mutation. I believe there is a very good chance that this is what we are seeing with the misty mutation too.



Thanks Johan ... it would be interesting to see a snap of misty green and dhani green side by side :)

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:46 pm
by Sherjil
molossus wrote:Sherjil some time in august last year I opened a thread on structure alteration. check it out.
what i saw in some alleles of misty is a range of grey on blue that is amazing. in one genotype the body is entirely grey and the head a clear blue. so much for grey destroying structure.


Thanks Sir leme check that thread ...

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:07 am
by madas
Mad Max wrote:Hi lee
Do you have a picture of the grey with blue head . I would like to see it

Regards
Robert


here you go:

Image

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:12 am
by Sherjil
madas wrote:
Mad Max wrote:Hi lee
Do you have a picture of the grey with blue head . I would like to see it

Regards
Robert


here you go:

Image



Beautiful bird Madas :) is this a SF grey misty ? btw why do misty have such variation in phenotypes ?

Re: Introducing the Dhani

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:58 am
by madas
Sherjil wrote:
madas wrote:
Mad Max wrote:Hi lee
Do you have a picture of the grey with blue head . I would like to see it

Regards
Robert


here you go:

Image



Beautiful bird Madas :) is this a SF grey misty ? btw why do misty have such variation in phenotypes ?


Not my bird. But i think it is a misty grey (unsure if ef or df).