Help I do not understand

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thirdy
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:27 am
Location: South Africa

Help I do not understand

Post by thirdy »

Hi there. . .
Last year I hand raised two ringneck chicks. I thought that both of them were female but from last week they starting trying to mate. The one is a blue lacewing that I know is a female because her mother is cinnamon blue and her father is dark green/pallid and she goes in that mode that female goes in so that the male can mate her (so she stand still with her head to the back). But the other ringneck that is creamino I do not know if it is a male or female it mother is turq blue(parblue) and the father grey/ino. And when the female goes in that mode he put his feet on her and tries to mate. So is this creamino a male or what? And if so can I breed with then next year.
thanks. . .
Ring0Neck
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by Ring0Neck »

creamino I do not know if it is a male or female it mother is turq blue(parblue) and the father grey/ino.
It is a hen ! can not be a male.
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thirdy
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by thirdy »

But can that pair still give creamino if the male did not split ino?
Ring0Neck
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by Ring0Neck »

No,

Cream-Ino=Turquoise & Ino
If there is no Ino in either birds then INO can not be bred from them
I'm an Explorer
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thirdy
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Location: South Africa

Re: Help I do not understand

Post by thirdy »

Thanks you helped me a lot and every time I just learn something new about colors it is so exciting. So I'll just keep the two females and decide which one of them I will breed next year. Maybe the creamino with a grey turq and the blue pallid with a green pallidino.
Thanks again. . .
Recio
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by Recio »

Hi,

Young IRN can behave as male or as female independtly of their real sex, and this till they reach sexual maturity. Their apparent sexual behaviour does not really help in determining the sex in young birds. Your birds are both females for sure (if the parents genetics are good) ... so do not wait for the ring to appear.

Regards

Recio
thirdy
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Location: South Africa

Re: Help I do not understand

Post by thirdy »

Thanks then I'm so glade. . .
trabots
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by trabots »

Young IRN can behave as male or as female independtly of their real sex, and this till they reach sexual maturity.
I flock my 100 odd IRNs after breeding. Many revert to old same sex partners at this time. Some male pairs copulate, both same sex pairs feed each other. Some males get around in trios. Only 10% of breeding pairs will stay 'mated' in this flock situation. The deviant ones completely change back to breeders when paired again. Many become friendly enough to land on me or take treats from the hand, learning by watching others. They then become unfriendly when paired again but will without fail be friendly when returned to the flock. The interactions of these birds in a flock situation is missed by those who keep them as pairs all season.

[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]
Recio
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by Recio »

Hi Willy,

My flock is very little (25 birds) but I have never seen this kind of behaviour between/among adult birds. I have seen adult unrelated birds feeding the youngs of the last breeding season, I have seen some figthins (specially females) to stablish the hierarchy during the first days after they are all together (end of summer), I have seen displaying males .... but never copulating adult males. Anyway IRN are stuning birds able to adapt to most new environemental conditions and to do that their behaviour must be "unfixed" so I would not be surprised that their sexual behaviour could be different from one country to another, or from one breeder to another. Maybe breeders are selecting the "deviant" males since they seem to be easier to re-pair again year after year to different partners, while the "normal" ones who keep with the same partner are more difficult to test breed.

Which are others experiences?

Regards

Recio
vinayv92
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Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:03 am

Re: Help I do not understand

Post by vinayv92 »

I had 2 wild-type green females for around 6 years . They were extremely bonded and displayed similar behaviour as to what you mentioned in your earlier posts . The funny thing was that the females would always switch as to who would be on 'top' every season .
sheyd
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by sheyd »

vinayv92 wrote:I had 2 wild-type green females for around 6 years . They were extremely bonded and displayed similar behaviour as to what you mentioned in your earlier posts . The funny thing was that the females would always switch as to who would be on 'top' every season .
interesting that is. I have seen someone write (elsewhere) that they were sure they had a pair because they saw their birds mating- as would anyone I guess- how interesting that you've both had (you & Willy) females (or males) doing the deed. I wouldn't have thought it possible.

as it turns out, the pair they saw mating neither had a ring- will be interesting to see if fertile eggs result (or not)- of course that wouldn't rule out a same sex pair-
Ring0Neck
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by Ring0Neck »

Interesting

I have a pair that's been together for years, yesterday i've seen them mating...
nothing new as they have been for the last 2 weeks, only thing is i now see the female on top performing the exact thing as a male would :?
yea, rubbed my eyes and did the cross thingy and all that (kidding)
Today the male was back on top of the situation :lol:


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willowisp71
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by willowisp71 »

LOL! Oh well, at least your birds, whether same sex or not, know what they are doing! I don't think my boy knows which end he's supposed to be at! He's got all the right moves........except he keeps getting in front of her, instead of behind and on top of her :!:

We keep threatening to show him Youtube video's so he can get the gist of it :lol: :lol: :lol:
Regards Deb
Ring0Neck
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by Ring0Neck »

Deb,

youtube it :lol:

* should these birds be classified HalfSiders also ?? :lol:
I'm an Explorer
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willowisp71
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by willowisp71 »

LOL! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Funny bugger :D
Regards Deb
Ring0Neck
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by Ring0Neck »

I have another bizzare 1

My Emerald male is a "Freestyler"

He has been attempting a sideways maneuver for a couple of weeks
one leg on the perch and the other on top of the hen lol
(pretty sure he has not seen any utube clips ) :lol:
hen was not too impressed
now he reverted back to the traditional way. :lol:
he had me worried there for a while.


I'm an Explorer
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ellieelectrons
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by ellieelectrons »

My two are going at it like crazy at the moment too. Charlie seems to only manage to get one leg onto Janey's back at a time, I think it's because they do it on a swing. The top of their cage only has swing perches. I thought about moving a fixed one up to the top, but then considered it might act as a contraceptive?!?

Ellie.
Ring0Neck
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by Ring0Neck »

might act as a contraceptive?!?

for a while...
i doubt that will stop them... they'll go on the ground and do it as 1 of my pairs decided to proceed. :D
100% fertility from them
I'm an Explorer
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ellieelectrons
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by ellieelectrons »

They don't seem to do it on the ground, although I guess I don't see them 24/7.

There has been no egg-laying yet, I guess because she hasn't found a suitable nest. It's been such a difficult time though, I've decided I'm going to try to get through this season without giving her a nest just to see how long it takes for her to come out of breeding mode... unless she lays an egg or her behaviour gets way worse... and then we'll reflect on how it went for next year. It does feel cruel not allowing them to breed and it the nesting behaviour has been difficult to deal with inside our house.

Ellie.
Ring0Neck
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by Ring0Neck »

Ellie,

On the bright side, behind this rather uneasy experience, there's a great wealth of information which you will cultivate and share with the world; many bird lovers will benefit from your experience as they will be able to make informed decisions.
Good work, appreciate for taking a "punch" for the team.

83IV
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ellieelectrons
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by ellieelectrons »

Thanks Ben. That's really kind.

Ellie.
sheyd
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by sheyd »

I see it a different way- If you don't intend on letting them raise babies or you're not interested in breeding then don't give them a nesting box.

Birds are no different to cats, dogs, horses...ect can you imagine if everone felt that it was cruel not to let them all breed? :shock:
No need to feel cruel about 'not letting them breed' :)

If you're seriously invested, the conditions are met and you're all for it- then no worries.

I have a pet Blue cock and he's in love with an aviary female..feeds her follows her, grooms her ect- but no breeding box. Doesn't stop him from courting her, or her wanting him to mount her..lol
I never intend on breeding him, so there is no box in there for her to want to lay eggs lol No doubt, if I were to supply a box there'd be a nice little clutch of infertile eggs to dispose of later :wink:

I had another pet bird though she's now living with my son's dad- she's completely tame (like the Blue) will look for nesting sites when you take her out of her cage- crawl down your shirt :shock: dig in the grass clippings, climb in school bags and any other place she thinks will be a great 'nest'. She clucks when you say her name - you know the whole hen display thing lol in fact you can't get her to step up when she's in breeding mode- you have to actually put your hand around her to pick her up. She will never be bred- she's happy being broody on her own. My son gets a kick out of it- personally I don't try to encourage that sort of (natural) behaviour.
InTheAir
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by InTheAir »

@ Trabots, nice pictures, it looks like a ringneck party in there! I particularly like the innovative use of bicycle wheels.
I'm quite a fan of repurposing stuff.
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: Help I do not understand

Post by ellieelectrons »

Hi Shey

Thanks for answering. I'd be interested in picking your brain some more on this... as your ideas are very similar to what I'm coming across as the mainstream thoughts on breeding companion parrots (pet birds rather than breeders in an aviary situation).
sheyd wrote:I see it a different way- If you don't intend on letting them raise babies or you're not interested in breeding then don't give them a nesting box.

Birds are no different to cats, dogs, horses...ect can you imagine if everone felt that it was cruel not to let them all breed? :shock:
No need to feel cruel about 'not letting them breed' :)

If you're seriously invested, the conditions are met and you're all for it- then no worries.
I agree with what you are saying regarding other animals (cats, dogs, horses, etc.) and for me the difference is that you can't get a bird desexed - boy I wish you could! I've only really had male cats growing up, but desexing them seemed to take away their natural desire to pro-create.

sheyd wrote: I have a pet Blue cock and he's in love with an aviary female..feeds her follows her, grooms her ect- but no breeding box. Doesn't stop him from courting her, or her wanting him to mount her..lol
I never intend on breeding him, so there is no box in there for her to want to lay eggs lol No doubt, if I were to supply a box there'd be a nice little clutch of infertile eggs to dispose of later :wink:
I guess my problem comes from not having an area outside of their cage that is devoid of places that seem like good nesting places for my Janey (eg. the clothes dryer, under our brand new couch, the cut-out in the kitchen around the exhaust fan).
sheyd wrote: I had another pet bird though she's now living with my son's dad- she's completely tame (like the Blue) will look for nesting sites when you take her out of her cage- crawl down your shirt :shock: dig in the grass clippings, climb in school bags and any other place she thinks will be a great 'nest'. She clucks when you say her name - you know the whole hen display thing lol in fact you can't get her to step up when she's in breeding mode- you have to actually put your hand around her to pick her up. She will never be bred- she's happy being broody on her own. My son gets a kick out of it- personally I don't try to encourage that sort of (natural) behaviour.
My birds are also completely tame and I have terrible problems managing their behaviour (especially) during breeding season. I generally don't grab them unless absolutely necessary. At the moment, Janey will not hesitate to attack you if you try to get near one of her potential nesting places. The easiest solution would be to not let her out of the cage, but I won't do that. So, for now I've moved them to a small room in our house, my office. It's not an ideal environment for them but at least there are fewer nesting sites and it has a door so I can prevent them from accessing the rest of the house.

Janey has been pretty anxious throughout this whole nesting period which started part way through winter and I think I've probably got another 3 months (at least) to go. I guess I just wonder if months of anxiety for Janey over nesting is worth it for her and for me and if we would be just better to let her nest next year.

Ellie.


Ellie.
trabots
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by trabots »

In The Air, the bike wheels work a treat however the only ones I can get to ride a vertical wheel are lorikeets and my Sulpher Crest.
The wheel should never be horizontal, you want gravity to help it turn. In the vertical wheel only the cockatoo has worked out how the duck his head in when going down and therefore 'pumping' it and keeping it going, 36 revs is his record. If he wants to stop he gets to the top then just hooks his toe into the wire. You wrap the circumference in a strip of mesh and secure with clips. Use bent heavy mesh for the support using large fencing washers and the bike axle nuts or release mechanism.

[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]


The feral cockies where I live are interested only so far.

[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]
ellieelectrons
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by ellieelectrons »

That is very cool!

Ellie.
InTheAir
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by InTheAir »

Trabots, that's brilliant! Hamster wheels for cockies. :D
Thanks for sharing!
I'll have to figure out how to set one up on a play stand for our ringneck (he is a house pet).

Claire
Skyes_crew
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by Skyes_crew »

I want one indoors to tire my two toos out lol. That is brilliant for sure :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

Image
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Help I do not understand

Post by willowisp71 »

Hahaha! That is awesome, Trabots!! Who would have thought? Want one too! I wonder if my 2 would work it out eventually :D :D :D
Regards Deb
trabots
Posts: 597
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by trabots »

except he keeps getting in front of her, instead of behind and on top of her
I have a male Galah who has a Sun Conure who dotes on him non-stop and has so for the past 10 years. Did you know that New World parrots are 4 feet on the perch while copulating? Old World parrots are 2 footers, having the male on top with only the female's feet on the perch. It sure is funny watching Ricky the Galah trying to mount Sunshine who can't understand why he wants to stand on top of her.

On another pair, my long time Derbyan pair have never laid a fertile egg. After several years of setting them up each year I finally found out why. There they were in the main aviary doing the most amazing courtship rituals and the hen crouches down ready for the mount and the male then simply grinds away on the perch right beside her. When he has finished he seems so proud of himself, totally unaware of the necessity to put it to the hen and not the perch.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Help I do not understand

Post by sheyd »

ellieelectrons wrote:Hi Shey

Thanks for answering. I'd be interested in picking your brain some more on this... as your ideas are very similar to what I'm coming across as the mainstream thoughts on breeding companion parrots (pet birds rather than breeders in an aviary situation).
sheyd wrote:I see it a different way- If you don't intend on letting them raise babies or you're not interested in breeding then don't give them a nesting box.

Birds are no different to cats, dogs, horses...ect can you imagine if everone felt that it was cruel not to let them all breed? :shock:
No need to feel cruel about 'not letting them breed' :)

If you're seriously invested, the conditions are met and you're all for it- then no worries.
I agree with what you are saying regarding other animals (cats, dogs, horses, etc.) and for me the difference is that you can't get a bird desexed - boy I wish you could! I've only really had male cats growing up, but desexing them seemed to take away their natural desire to pro-create.

sheyd wrote: I have a pet Blue cock and he's in love with an aviary female..feeds her follows her, grooms her ect- but no breeding box. Doesn't stop him from courting her, or her wanting him to mount her..lol
I never intend on breeding him, so there is no box in there for her to want to lay eggs lol No doubt, if I were to supply a box there'd be a nice little clutch of infertile eggs to dispose of later :wink:
I guess my problem comes from not having an area outside of their cage that is devoid of places that seem like good nesting places for my Janey (eg. the clothes dryer, under our brand new couch, the cut-out in the kitchen around the exhaust fan).
sheyd wrote: I had another pet bird though she's now living with my son's dad- she's completely tame (like the Blue) will look for nesting sites when you take her out of her cage- crawl down your shirt :shock: dig in the grass clippings, climb in school bags and any other place she thinks will be a great 'nest'. She clucks when you say her name - you know the whole hen display thing lol in fact you can't get her to step up when she's in breeding mode- you have to actually put your hand around her to pick her up. She will never be bred- she's happy being broody on her own. My son gets a kick out of it- personally I don't try to encourage that sort of (natural) behaviour.
My birds are also completely tame and I have terrible problems managing their behaviour (especially) during breeding season. I generally don't grab them unless absolutely necessary. At the moment, Janey will not hesitate to attack you if you try to get near one of her potential nesting places. The easiest solution would be to not let her out of the cage, but I won't do that. So, for now I've moved them to a small room in our house, my office. It's not an ideal environment for them but at least there are fewer nesting sites and it has a door so I can prevent them from accessing the rest of the house.

Janey has been pretty anxious throughout this whole nesting period which started part way through winter and I think I've probably got another 3 months (at least) to go. I guess I just wonder if months of anxiety for Janey over nesting is worth it for her and for me and if we would be just better to let her nest next year.

Ellie.


Ellie.
sorry to hear you're having such trouble with your bird- would make things difficult for sure. I am lucky (well my son is) that his female doesn't bite when you try and remove her from building or finding a 'nest'. If she were to, then she'd be spending the breeding season securely in her cage.

Desexing is not routine- but have heard it can be done- not sure where you'd have to go to get that or if it can even be done here. Maybe a trip to an avian vet might better help you out- some calming drugs maybe? My advice is probably not helpful since you said that you couldn't keep her locked up- it's good that you're limiting the places where she can go- though 'anywhere' is probably going to be a good nesting site for her- just like my son's bird :roll:

sorry I couldn't be of any help
willowisp71
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Re: Help I do not understand

Post by willowisp71 »

@trabots.....LOL! :lol: I can totally visualise the proud look on your Derbyan cocks face - our blue boy has had similar moments of pride these last few days, doing almost exactly the same thing - grinding away next to her, rather than, as you say, "putting it to her" lol :lol:

What's even more priceless is the look on our hen's face - of absolute disgust at his bumbling ineptitude! :shock: :? :evil:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Regards Deb
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