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That time of the year

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Mad Max
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Location: Nigel , South Africa

That time of the year

Post by Mad Max » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:12 am

The time has come for all our plans that we have made leading into our breeding season to be realised .

Every day after work I rush home to see who will be next .
The first pairs have now started laying eggs , I have a hen with 4 eggs candled and all are firtile , 18 to go . Another hen with 2 eggs , 17 to go and 3 hens with 1 egg each15,14 13 to go .Its killing me :lol:

For me the presents are starting to fill up under the X-Mas tree , but the big day is not here yet so I cant open any yet.
Now the big wait starts . what are we going to get ? Is mother nature going to bust your hand with another cold spell ? these are crazy times but I love it .

Now the waiting game starts , almost time to open that lucky packet and see what you got .
I hope all your pairs give you what you want from them . Good luck to my fellow breeders this breeding season .

Good wishes for the breeding season
Robert

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adrinaxo
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Re: That time of the year

Post by adrinaxo » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:37 am

I hope you had good luck with all of your chicks!

Mad Max
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Mad Max » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:41 am

Thanks

I now have 21 eggs from 6 pairs with 1 pair laying 5 eggs , I have candled the eggs that are 7 -10 days old and have found that the first pair that went down only has 1 fertile egg out of the 4 she layed (not a good indication) but the weather was still a bit cold so I think that had something to do with it.
My 1 pair of clear tailed has 4 fertile eggs and my Turquoise X Blue has 4 fertile eggs , The other eggs are to fresh to say for sure so i will wait a bit longer.

The other good newes is that my Dark Grey X Deep Green/ Blue has thier first egg in the nest , Lets hope a Deep grey is on its way or even better a Dark Deep grey .
I still have at least 13 pairs that have to go down so we have not yet reached half way , The X-mas tree is filling up nicely

Robert

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Ring0Neck
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:22 am

Robert,

Good to hear that your pairs are filling up the nestboxes with goodies (eggs).

Regarding the Deep

I think that most here would agree with me to use proper names that we use to identify the deeps:

SA Deep or the NT Violet - The SA Deep
Deep we recognise as Oz Deep

It is a necessity to be specific becuase the 2 mutations are not the same.

All the best this breeding season !

83IV

Mad Max
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Mad Max » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:12 pm

Thanks for clearing the deep issue up for me , I live in South Africa so I think mine would be the SA Deep

Regards
Robert

Johan S
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Johan S » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:23 am

Ring0Neck wrote:Regarding the Deep

I think that most here would agree with me to use proper names that we use to identify the deeps:

SA Deep or the NT Violet - The SA Deep
Deep we recognise as Oz Deep

It is a necessity to be specific becuase the 2 mutations are not the same.
Ben, this confusion is exactly the reason why I have been cautioning against the use of the name "SA deep" for some time now, or at least until we understand both better. In our local trade there are already 'deeps' being advertised, I have heard people at auctions talking about their new purchases, being 'deeps' and not 'SA deeps', etc. etc.

I think we are very close to the damage being done and the ship having sailed regarding the 'deep' issue this side of the waters. And to me it is a massive pity, since this very same mutation was previously compared to American violet (which it failed against pitifully), and now the mutation is once again being compared to another, being Oz deep. Why cant we simply accept it for something unique and letting it come into it's own is beyond me. It is a spectacular mutation in it's own right.

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Ring0Neck
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:00 am

Johan,
It is a spectacular mutation in it's own right.


I could not agree more.
Such a dark hinting towards black mutation is indeed spectacular.
i guess they use the name Deep as it is a very "deep" and sticky name.
It could end up being a much more usefull mutation than the real Deep, time will tell.
In any case, this confusion as you say it is getting beyond repair in SA.

The only solution would be , my guess, a few breeders to get together and find a new name and somehow to inform all breeders of the new name that best describes this mutation.

I guess breeders might not like NT Violet for 2 reasons: 1 credit given to an individual and 2 making it a violet.

Let's hope and pray this issue will not get out of hand.

83IV

Mad Max
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Mad Max » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:41 am

Johan/Ben/Tienie/Peter/Midas
I agree with the statement that Johan has made , Why dont we just accept the SA Deep for what it is and give it a name .

I have no problem with writers of books on our birds saying "We now have more information on **** mutation and can now say XYZ , It is better than saying " We have a new mutation , It looks like American Violet ,but not , It look like Euro Cobalt ,but not , It looks like Oz Deep ,but it is not ,But we know it exists .

We could go the route we are now on , saying it is NT Deep , and the next breeder that breeds it says , This one is a Robert Deep or a Joe Slow Deep .
I believe this is going to lead to confusion where breeders going out to buy these birds for the first time are going to get the short end of a stick from the sellers .

If I have never seen a bird and I have none of that mutation in my collection to compare it with , how do I know I am getting what I paid for ? . I have to trust the seller.
We are now leaving it up to the seller to decide what he wants to call it and thus confuse the buyer as to the mutation he has purchased .

The same is happening in SA with the Violet mutation , I see plenty ads in SA saying Violet ,But very few saying American or Euro Violet , So the breeder going out to buy a Violet thinks there is only Violet out there , not 2 different types as we know there are .

Robert

trabots
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Re: That time of the year

Post by trabots » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:08 am

As always the discussion is about mutations for which the full expression has never to my knowledge been bred. ie: the DF SA Deep or DF NT Deep or the DF "European" Violet which has a different phenotype to the DF "American" Violet. When is that going to happen, you breeders who have them? IMO assigning names to 'new' mutations for which the only the SF exists is premature. When someone does breed one of these DF's lets have an image of it alongside the original DF example. It has been several years now that these have been reported but nary a DF produced. Why is the priority to breed the SF into other mutations before pairing 2 SF birds? I am not knocking these birds but sincerely wanting them proved up and then names assigned to them.

Mad Max
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Mad Max » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:47 pm

Trabots

As far as a DF SA Deep being bred , I know Peter has bred them , In the green and blue series and I am almost sure Tienie also has them (I stand to be corrected)

Regards
Robert

Carr.birds
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Carr.birds » Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:39 pm

Robert & Willy

Robert sorry to disappoint you but I bought all my "SA deep"birds from NT in January 2012. This is only my second breeding season with them. As mentioned before I am not prepared to make statements before I have sorted them out myself. It will take some time because I am working with the original imported "European dark green/indigo" hen. I am not convinced that Nico didn't introduce dark and violet into his " SA deep" birds at some stage.

Things are looking positive for this season.

Tienie

trabots
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Re: That time of the year

Post by trabots » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:43 pm

Mad Max wrote:Trabots

As far as a DF SA Deep being bred , I know Peter has bred them , In the green and blue series and I am almost sure Tienie also has them (I stand to be corrected)

Regards
Robert
That would be fantastic if Peter(?) has bred a DF "SA Deep". If so let's see nice images of it next to a Cobalt or a DF Violet etc. If after we have seen and discussed, and as Peter has done the deed first, then he should be proposing a new name for discussion. Names should preferably be one word in this instance and relate to the DF phenotype NOT the SF. When I named the Deep I also thought that 'Navy' might work unless of course this bird is unlike the DF Deep Blue in appearance. I think that like Violet, the name should relate to the Blue series bird's appearance as that is what it will be bred as 99% of the time.

Mad Max
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Mad Max » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:05 am

Tienie / Willy

Tienie thanks for that info .Hope the season is good for all of us :D

Peter I hope you can help us out here

Regards
Robert

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prodigy
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Re: That time of the year

Post by prodigy » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:29 pm

Hi Robert,

The DF Green bird we had was sold last year, however i have several green pairs up this year and 90% of them have eggs so lets wait and see.

Below is the only picture I have of the bird in question unfortunately.

Image

I have been doing a lot of investigation and have traced the original imported birds back to the village in Europe that they came from and other breeders in the same area that were exporting to Africa even before the NT birds came were introduced into South Africa. And it seems that this "gene" has been around from late 1990. Birds for other breeders in the same region display the same characteristics.

I have secured a few birds that I believe are from the same line with some of the original cock's leg rings dating back to 2003.

So lets wait and see how the line breeding turn out, to Johan's they are something else and lets develop them.

Regards,

Peter

Mad Max
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Mad Max » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:30 am

Thanks Peter
I hope we will have more answers than questions after the breeding season ,(That will only lead to more questions as I am sure you well aware of)

Regards
Robert
















0

Ninadebeer1
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Re: First time breeder

Post by Ninadebeer1 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:57 pm

Hi there, I've got a three ringnecks in a big outside avaery, two females, grey and green, and a lovely blue male indian ringneck. The male has paired with the grey female, and she laid some eggs, and as I calculated, will hatch by the end of August. I am not sure how many eggs she laid, as I don't want to disturb her at the nest. It is the first time, and I'm very unsure how to handle this situation. I'm very exited about it, and scared at the same time. Let me tell you abit about the hen. Her name is "ugly Betty". She was named this, because she was bought at an auction, and given to us. She has only one eye, and the wing is also broken, (i think) because she can't fly. I felt very sorry for her, but she manages to move around quite well, and seems to be happy. She was mishandled, and the eye was stuck out by naughty kids, that hurt her - that is the story I heard, who and where they are, I don't know. She is the one chosen by the lovely blue male, called "pretty boy", and he took no interest in the green ringneck "Polly". I want to remove the babies at two weeks, but needs guidance on the feeding method, the feeding time, and where and how to keep the hatchlings warm. Could you pls advice. Thanx

Carr.birds
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Carr.birds » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:33 am

Robert & Peter

Peter the original imported birds were 2 females (yr 2000). They were imported as "European darkgreen/turq & cobalt turq. Stefan traced the information for back to Luc van de Kerckhove.


It is difficult to believe the green bird posted is a df SA deep. Attached find a pic of the original imported "European dgreen/indigo"

Image

Tienie

Carr.birds
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Carr.birds » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:58 am

Lee

I have posted this pic before. She has a nice dark brighter phenotype compared to Dark)

She is paired to a Blue Opaline cock. 3 Babies hatched last week.

L to R (Normal, Dark, Violet and bottom "SA deep")
Image


Image

Tienie

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prodigy
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Re: That time of the year

Post by prodigy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:15 am

I will take photos of the DF Blue and baseline against blue, cobalt and violet

Carr.birds
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Carr.birds » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:02 am

Peter

If you can add a sf "SA deep" blue it will help.

blue, sf & df "SA deep" blue, cobalt and violet blue

Tienie

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prodigy
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Re: That time of the year

Post by prodigy » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:32 am

Blue vs df

Image

df vs Cobalt

Image

df vs sf Turq

Image

The rest of the birds are breeding, I will update after breeding season

Carr.birds
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Carr.birds » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:16 am

Peter

This one is for you

sl edged blue, sl edged SA deep blue violet, sl edged violet blue & SA deep blue
Image

Tienie

ringo27
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Re: That time of the year

Post by ringo27 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:39 am

hi, r your each of your pair liveing in a large flight aviary?

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prodigy
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Re: That time of the year

Post by prodigy » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:04 am

Thanks Tienie good looking birds, I saw the picture last year October when you took it haven't you not got a recent pic as I would love to see them now with the edge ?

What are these bred from ?

.

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prodigy
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Re: That time of the year

Post by prodigy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:46 pm

If memory serves me right it was:

1,0 x blue X 0,1 (NT) Violet Edge

?

This is what i got got last year out of (NT) Blue X (NT) Cobalt

Image

3 completely different colors

Carr.birds
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Carr.birds » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:44 pm

Peter

Sorry I missed your question. It was from an American sf violet blue & "SA deep" blue sl edged.

Nice birds you posted. Your results underline what I was saying. Nico did introduce dark into his collection, this make it very difficult to dertermine what you bred. If I can guess I would say the darker bird can be cobalt SA deep or df SA deep blue or maybe even cobalt df SA deep.

Tienie

Johan S
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Johan S » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:21 pm

prodigy wrote:If memory serves me right it was:

1,0 x blue X 0,1 (NT) Violet Edge

?

This is what i got got last year out of (NT) Blue X (NT) Cobalt

3 completely different colors
You'll get many more colours from that combo if you keep them together. Are those normal blue chicks or blue clearhead fallows? They look rather 'pale' for normal blues and the top right one has a very typical fallow coloured beak. :?:

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prodigy
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Re: That time of the year

Post by prodigy » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:56 am

Hi Johan and Tienie,

Yes they are Clear Headed Fallows and I have no intention of splitting them up, lets see what they give this year.

Tienie I agree, I am doing exactly what you suggested, line breed to plain blue and plain green.

Regards,

Peter

Johan S
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Re: That time of the year

Post by Johan S » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:27 pm

Hope you kept back the darker one for future reference/comparison. The outcomes from that pair will all be very interesting. Pity we won't know 100% for sure which is which. At least for a while until some more base work is put in place.

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