IndianRingNeck.com

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:56 am**

Hi all- feel a bit silly posting this, but here goes..

No where can I find multiple pics/angles of a Green Edged hen- since I'm still relatively new to this mutation would someone be able to tell me from these pics if this is typical for it to display in the way it does.

Birds in the aviary are of a Green SL Edged hen (that much I know for sure, anything else that maybe there is questionable), and a Wildtype Green cock. All were taken in the morning (sunny with some clouds) all with exactly the same camera settings and all within about 10mins from start to finish. She switches between Yellow and Green depending on the light (which is why I added the direction in which I took the pics- there is nothing wrong with my camera.

Wildtype cock can be used as a reference in some pics

Cheers.

NW(lower)

NW (upper)

SW (upper)

NE (upper)

aviary is pointing north east when check against google maps- location of birds corrected

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:55 pm**

That's a lovely looking bird, from the pics I would guess it may be a turq cinnamon edged.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:20 pm**

Thanks Benjamin - she is lovely looking even with her old nare injury.

She is not Turquoise though- def Green series. But would be interested in seeing multiple pics (SL Edged Cin Turqblue) of the same bird to compare for curiosities sake as there should be some similarities.

More pics- unfortunately I missed out on the wing span (wrong position) but will try again tomorrow until I eventually get it. (lots of patience involved!!) also a bummer that pb downgrades the quality of the images- but anyhow shots taken in the morning- sunny and bright, with hardly any clouds

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:57 am**

Shey

I am sure I will be able to assist you, but please be patient it is almost breeding season and I only have time on weekends to take comparison pics for you.

Send me your email address for current pics in my archive. To upload pic through photo bucket is time consuming.

proven sl edged-cinnamon hen

ef sl edged dgreen

Tienie

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:41 pm**

that would be fantastic Tienie! whenever you get the time- my email address is cannonboy at bigpond dot com (no spaces, replace the 'at' and the 'dot')
cheers.

Johan- this one's for you - 0.1sl edged, 1.0wildtype, 1.0sf sl edged -not the best angle for him, but hopefully you can still make out the colour of the Rachis.

Posted: **Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:52 pm**

Hi all,

On to this bird for a moment..I've read that some of you think that Cinnamon can hide (no ruby eyes or other obvious signs) apart from when they're youngsters then it will show up as patchiness or pied like.

Would this one qualify for such a description? The breeder didn't know what he was- called him a "pied"

also, both he and the hen have brownish lower mandibles- where I've read that they're supposed to be black (for sl edged). He has darker nails than the hen.
He is about 10 months old.

Posted: **Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:07 pm**

Shey

I don't have green cinnamon or green sl edged but your birds could be
She: Sl Edged Cinnamon Green
He is a Cinnamon Green for me from what i can see in that pic.
Cinnamon around molt time look as if they are pieds.

Do you know/have pics of the parents?
Hopefully Tiennie or others can clarify
It's so much easier to work with parents if known, it eliminates pics guessing.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:05 am**

sheyd wrote:Johan- this one's for you - 0.1sl edged, 1.0wildtype, 1.0sf sl edged -not the best angle for him, but hopefully you can still make out the colour of the Rachis.

Fantastic stuff, Shey! I'm glad that at least someone else is paying close attention to the rachis. My believe is that there is a lot of info there. Notice in your pics that the hen shows brown in the rachis throughout, yet the cock bird shows a change from brown towards the normal dark grey/light black towards the tip of the tail. And the wildtype obviously no change and for reference. This really is a great set of pictures, much appreciated.

The interesting thing now will be how proven cinnamon edged changes that. Or perhaps we are already looking at a SL edged / cinnamon cock? Will a SL edged / cinnamon cock show a different tail colour, esp. rachis? Can we position a bird's phenotype on the "Recio concentration S-curve" so that a recessive mutation is actually visible? So many questions.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:05 pm**

Ring0Neck wrote:Shey

I don't have green cinnamon or green sl edged but your birds could be
She: Sl Edged Cinnamon Green
He is a Cinnamon Green for me from what i can see in that pic.
Cinnamon around molt time look as if they are pieds.

Do you know/have pics of the parents?
Hopefully Tiennie or others can clarify
It's so much easier to work with parents if known, it eliminates pics guessing.

Hi Ben, unfortunately I don't know the parent info and wasn't able to view them either, but I suspect that the 3 birds that were being sold at the time were all nest siblings 1 Greygreen (saw this bird in person), 1 Greygreen? SL Edged (pic removed) and then the bird (in the post above,) I purchased.

The breeders first language was not English- and her birds were colony bred- but all three were of the same age and colours combo/s- which led me to believe that they were all of the same clutch.

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:14 pm**

Johan S wrote: Fantastic stuff, Shey! I'm glad that at least someone else is paying close attention to the rachis. My believe is that there is a lot of info there. Notice in your pics that the hen shows brown in the rachis throughout, yet the cock bird shows a change from brown towards the normal dark grey/light black towards the tip of the tail. And the wildtype obviously no change and for reference. This really is a great set of pictures, much appreciated.

The interesting thing now will be how proven cinnamon edged changes that. Or perhaps we are already looking at a SL edged / cinnamon cock? Will a SL edged / cinnamon cock show a different tail colour, esp. rachis? Can we position a bird's phenotype on the "Recio concentration S-curve" so that a recessive mutation is actually visible? So many questions.

No problem- you're definitely onto something there- even with the rachis being brown, it is still darker than the hens. Thankyou for pointing it out earlier- every snippet of information is helpful (:

Yes, you're right! His tail does get darker toward the end (had to go out and have a look)- will see if I can capture that head on.
I agree so many questions that I want answered- am hoping others with Green SL Edged birds will join in and post so we can see the variances between everyone's birds and hopefully draw some calculated conclusions to later backup with some evidence

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:46 pm**

Ah, here we go:
Just a pitty that photobucket downgrades the quality of the images- but nevermind.

so, if hens have the same phenotype as df cocks- would a df cock have the same coloured rachis as a hen?

Posted: **Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 am**

sheyd wrote:so, if hens have the same phenotype as df cocks- would a df cock have the same coloured rachis as a hen?

It should. Tienie owns a DF SL edged cock and can hopefully assist with a close-up photo of the the tail with tip included.

Posted: **Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:04 am**

no photo needed (though would be nice

) just confirmation.

Posted: **Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:02 am**

Johan & Shey

I own 3 df sl edged cocks, blue, greygreen and dblue, but unfortunately nothing in green. Pics will follow tomorrow

Tienie

Posted: **Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:25 pm**

Looking forward to them Tienie

Thankyou for taking the time out to do this.

Posted: **Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:39 pm**

still no open wing shots- am either in the wrong position, or I can't get my camera to focus in time- but thought this picture might be appreciated- wonderfully shows how she can be chameleon bird

(pic was taken in morning, and with no sun on the bird)

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:33 am**

Tienie, I know you said that you don't have the Green Cinnamon SL Edged hen anymore, but could you describe her colour and did it change like the one I've posted?

Wish I could find another Green Edged hen to compare- not only am I intrigued, the colour of the op hen is also pretty-but unfortunately finding them to buy will be difficult as not many know what edged birds are.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:28 am**

I have a turquoise grey SL edged that displays in the same way going from light grey to a dirty white (depending on the sun position)
I dont have many edges in my collection and I have not looked at the tail , I will check as soon as I have a chance and give feed back then

Robert

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:33 am**

I forgot to add that the guy I bought the turquoise grey from said it could be a split cinnamon if it was a male. I have not had it sexed yet so I dont know .
hope this helps you
Robert

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:56 am**

Robert, we should be able to sex visually if you can upload a photo. Or send me a PM and you can email it to me for upload.

Posted: **Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:59 pm**

Interesting Robert- would love to see a photo.

The sun was to the right of that side of the aviary, with all of the aviary shaded- apart from where the corrugation iron allowed some sunlight in at the top the back- as can see in the pic (aviary is against 6ft fence), and the time according to the camera was taken at 10.31 in the morning.

Posted: **Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:33 am**

Hi Thanks Johan

I work during the week and will only have time over the weekend , but I will take you up on the offer this weekend

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:22 am**

I'm missing s-thing.
Tiennie, Madas, Johan & whoever has edged.

I have this mature pair that has bred for about 3 years for another breeder.
Pair as i know is:
Male: EF Edged DF Parblue/cinn
Hen: df parblue grey edged cinnamon

With this pair i should not be able to breed any non Edged males, only hens.

Yet the breeder has bred this male and others from this pair.

He's a non edged: df parblue (i assume Indigo)
He sold the males before i could get/see them.
I have them paired up to see for myself this season, meanwhile...

**** It brings me to only 1 conclusion: Hen is not sl edged !

Here she is:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/xs.JPG

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/xso.JPG

Any thoughts???

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:47 am**

Ring0Neck wrote:I'm missing s-thing.
Tiennie, Madas, Johan & whoever has edged.

I have this mature pair that has bred for about 3 years for another breeder.
Pair as i know is:
Male: EF Edged DF Parblue/cinn
Hen: df parblue grey edged cinnamon

With this pair i should not be able to breed any non Edged males, only hens.

Yet the breeder has bred this male and others from this pair.

He's a non edged: df parblue (i assume Indigo)

**** It brings me to only 1 conclusion: Hen is not sl edged !

Or the hen is cinnamon and incorrectly identified as edged cinnamon? Edged and cinnamon mutations express very similarly. To test this she needs to be paired to a normal cock to see if she gives edged sons.

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:51 am**

Johan,

Yes i thought about that. but a parblue cinnamon hen would look like the male in below pic.
the flight feathers on mine are body color not dark brown,

http://psittacula-world.com/EN/Mutation ... nnamon.htm

I'm thinking it's cinnamon + something else other then edged.

cinnamon is rather easy to spot even in CT
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/cinnCTal.jpg

**** This phenotype matches my bird's

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:51 pm**

Ben & Johan

My apology for not joining in. Johan I agree with your statement if non edged cock are produced the mother can't be edged or the cocks you id as non edged are not well marked. From the pic (not so clear) I would say she isn't edged but cinnamon grey turq (indigo)

I have seen some bad marked edged cocks and all my pairings the last 8 years edged hens do produce edged cock babies.

Tienie

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:22 pm**

From the flight pic she looks Cinnamon TurquoiseGrey (the flight and tail look a light brownish colour) but, take a pic with a flash if her eyes show up red, then no Edged- if they show up dark then re-examine the male offspring?

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:38 pm**

or the cocks you id as non edged are not well marked. From the pic (not so clear) I would say she isn't edged but cinnamon grey turq (indigo)

I have seen some bad marked edged cocks and all my pairings the last 8 years edged hens do produce edged cock babies.

Tienie

The other breeder id-ed the other males, i only seen the pic i posted.

You have a good point about the weak markings and it's the only explanation that makes sense to me.
I can't see that hen being just cinnamon grey parblue

here's another bunch form same breeder all clear flights
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgez.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgegreydf.jpg

I guess i'll have to wait till they breed to be sure.

Shey ->

then re-examine the male offspring

the breeder sold them, i only got hens non edged and the pic where flights can not be seen.

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:46 pm**

take a photo of the hen with a flash anyway- can't hurt- and besides I'm curious!

Posted: **Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:16 pm**

Ok
Here you go.
Flash around 3pm
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/flash.jpg

no flash
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/noFL.jpg

you can download to ur PC to zoom in for a closer look.

Posted: **Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:17 am**

Dark eyes (with a flash)- anyone know how does that? SL Edged isn't the only mutation that can do that either

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:45 pm**

For OZ Breeders

I have 3 eggs available from Edged pair if anyone wants them. she is still laying eggs (i hope)
I used the pair for fostering other eggs.
Pretty sure they are fertile.
eggs were removed as they were laid so they have not been incubated.

pair: first 2 from the left
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/3edged.jpg

pity i had to sacrifice these eggs, i was keen to see the offspring however i could not resist the urge to get this season the long awaited bird: turq. violet CHF.

Posted: **Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:54 pm**

If only you were in Cairns!

Posted: **Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:00 am**

Ring0Neck wrote: i could not resist the urge to get this season the long awaited bird: turq. violet CHF.

That'll be a beauty well worth breeder... I could really use a hen like that.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:49 am**

Last 2 pics were at under 12 months. First 3 were at 36 months old.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:34 am**

Wow! that second last pic you posted looks very similar! so, wait! she got 'yellower' as she got older? That's amazing

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:40 am**

The mustardy yellow definately came out more as she matured hey... Unfortunately i lost her in Feb, so wont know what will happen further... I have one of her green edged / cinnamon sons i am hoping to breed next year to get babies her colour, and then will definately be keeping a baba for myself again, shame she was a lovely girl. Devil of a temper but i miss her terribly, silly thing.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:55 am**

that's sad- lovely you've kept a son- you'll have another like her again

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:56 am**

sheyd wrote:Wow! that second last pic you posted looks very similar! so, wait! she got 'yellower' as she got older? That's amazing

That's good to know as i have some raising 3 y old cinnamon edged, looking forward to next molt.
Shey, how are the eggs? did you candle them yet?

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgepair.jpg

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:16 am**

Ring0Neck wrote:
sheyd wrote:Wow! that second last pic you posted looks very similar! so, wait! she got 'yellower' as she got older? That's amazing
That's good to know as i have some raising 3 y old cinnamon edged, looking forward to next molt.
Shey, how are the eggs? did you candle them yet?

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgepair.jpg

No, haven't yet- will do it tomorrow night- I found 3 surprises in the box today- they were all huddled up around your eggs

Really hope the postman was kind, and that your eggs are good.
(crappy vid still- the other egg and baby are to the left)

Did you end up keeping one or did she only lay 3- if you kept one, have you candled it yet?

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:32 am**

She only laid 3 but she's fostering 5 eggs for me.

Good thing we did not teach her to count

Congratz on ur young chix !

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:47 am**

Thanks Ben- this my first ever clutch! pretty stoked

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:02 pm**

Congrats Shey

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:23 pm**

Thanks Melissa

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:31 am**

sheyd wrote:Thanks Ben- this my first ever clutch! pretty stoked

Well done!

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:30 am**

Johan S wrote:
sheyd wrote:Thanks Ben- this my first ever clutch! pretty stoked
Well done!

Thanks Johan

Ben- I pm'd you

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:44 pm**

Below is the op hen's 6 week old son, the hen has the yellowish flights, the edged (unrelated) cock a few posts above also had yellowish flights (no longer have him) but this bird doesn't- which means from the breeding results, that the two above are/were also Cinnamon- they are also a lot more 'yellow' in colour whereas this one is 'greener'.

Green/Cinnamon SL Edged cock.

he will be paired to a Cinnamon hen in the future to prove/disprove Cinnamon.

Below is the op hen's other Green/Cinnamon SL Edged son and Wildtype Green daughter respectively

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:23 pm**

Beautiful clutch shey

you should be darn proud of those results.

Posted: **Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:08 am**

Thanks Melissa

Posted: **Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:19 am**

The pattern on the other edged boy - would this be considered as 'not well marked?'

(pic not a true representation of colour)

Found these on the aviary floor a couple of days ago and thought it might be of some interest- flight feathers of the parents (Wildtype on top, Green SL Edged Cinnamon on bottom)

IndianRingNeck.com

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