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SL Edged

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sheyd
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SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:56 am

Hi all- feel a bit silly posting this, but here goes..

No where can I find multiple pics/angles of a Green Edged hen- since I'm still relatively new to this mutation would someone be able to tell me from these pics if this is typical for it to display in the way it does.

Birds in the aviary are of a Green SL Edged hen (that much I know for sure, anything else that maybe there is questionable), and a Wildtype Green cock. All were taken in the morning (sunny with some clouds) all with exactly the same camera settings and all within about 10mins from start to finish. She switches between Yellow and Green depending on the light (which is why I added the direction in which I took the pics- there is nothing wrong with my camera.

Wildtype cock can be used as a reference in some pics

Cheers.

NW(lower)
Image
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Image
NW (upper)
Image
Image
SW (upper)
Image
NE (upper)
Image
Image

aviary is pointing north east when check against google maps- location of birds corrected
Last edited by sheyd on Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

bennjamin
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Re: SL Edged

Post by bennjamin » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:55 pm

That's a lovely looking bird, from the pics I would guess it may be a turq cinnamon edged.

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:20 pm

Thanks Benjamin - she is lovely looking even with her old nare injury.

She is not Turquoise though- def Green series. But would be interested in seeing multiple pics (SL Edged Cin Turqblue) of the same bird to compare for curiosities sake as there should be some similarities.


More pics- unfortunately I missed out on the wing span (wrong position) but will try again tomorrow until I eventually get it. (lots of patience involved!!) also a bummer that pb downgrades the quality of the images- but anyhow shots taken in the morning- sunny and bright, with hardly any clouds

Image
Image

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Carr.birds
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Carr.birds » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:57 am

Shey

I am sure I will be able to assist you, but please be patient it is almost breeding season and I only have time on weekends to take comparison pics for you.

Send me your email address for current pics in my archive. To upload pic through photo bucket is time consuming.

proven sl edged-cinnamon hen
Image

ef sl edged dgreen
Image

Tienie

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:41 pm

that would be fantastic Tienie! whenever you get the time- my email address is cannonboy at bigpond dot com (no spaces, replace the 'at' and the 'dot')
cheers.

Johan- this one's for you - 0.1sl edged, 1.0wildtype, 1.0sf sl edged -not the best angle for him, but hopefully you can still make out the colour of the Rachis.

Image

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:52 pm

Hi all,

On to this bird for a moment..I've read that some of you think that Cinnamon can hide (no ruby eyes or other obvious signs) apart from when they're youngsters then it will show up as patchiness or pied like.

Would this one qualify for such a description? The breeder didn't know what he was- called him a "pied" :wink: also, both he and the hen have brownish lower mandibles- where I've read that they're supposed to be black (for sl edged). He has darker nails than the hen.
He is about 10 months old.

Image

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Ring0Neck
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:07 pm

Shey

I don't have green cinnamon or green sl edged but your birds could be
She: Sl Edged Cinnamon Green
He is a Cinnamon Green for me from what i can see in that pic.
Cinnamon around molt time look as if they are pieds.

Do you know/have pics of the parents?
Hopefully Tiennie or others can clarify
It's so much easier to work with parents if known, it eliminates pics guessing.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:05 am

sheyd wrote:Johan- this one's for you - 0.1sl edged, 1.0wildtype, 1.0sf sl edged -not the best angle for him, but hopefully you can still make out the colour of the Rachis.

Image
Fantastic stuff, Shey! I'm glad that at least someone else is paying close attention to the rachis. My believe is that there is a lot of info there. Notice in your pics that the hen shows brown in the rachis throughout, yet the cock bird shows a change from brown towards the normal dark grey/light black towards the tip of the tail. And the wildtype obviously no change and for reference. This really is a great set of pictures, much appreciated. :D

The interesting thing now will be how proven cinnamon edged changes that. Or perhaps we are already looking at a SL edged / cinnamon cock? Will a SL edged / cinnamon cock show a different tail colour, esp. rachis? Can we position a bird's phenotype on the "Recio concentration S-curve" so that a recessive mutation is actually visible? So many questions. :?:

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:05 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:Shey

I don't have green cinnamon or green sl edged but your birds could be
She: Sl Edged Cinnamon Green
He is a Cinnamon Green for me from what i can see in that pic.
Cinnamon around molt time look as if they are pieds.

Do you know/have pics of the parents?
Hopefully Tiennie or others can clarify
It's so much easier to work with parents if known, it eliminates pics guessing.
Hi Ben, unfortunately I don't know the parent info and wasn't able to view them either, but I suspect that the 3 birds that were being sold at the time were all nest siblings 1 Greygreen (saw this bird in person), 1 Greygreen? SL Edged (pic removed) and then the bird (in the post above,) I purchased.

The breeders first language was not English- and her birds were colony bred- but all three were of the same age and colours combo/s- which led me to believe that they were all of the same clutch.
Last edited by sheyd on Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:14 pm

Johan S wrote: Fantastic stuff, Shey! I'm glad that at least someone else is paying close attention to the rachis. My believe is that there is a lot of info there. Notice in your pics that the hen shows brown in the rachis throughout, yet the cock bird shows a change from brown towards the normal dark grey/light black towards the tip of the tail. And the wildtype obviously no change and for reference. This really is a great set of pictures, much appreciated. :D

The interesting thing now will be how proven cinnamon edged changes that. Or perhaps we are already looking at a SL edged / cinnamon cock? Will a SL edged / cinnamon cock show a different tail colour, esp. rachis? Can we position a bird's phenotype on the "Recio concentration S-curve" so that a recessive mutation is actually visible? So many questions. :?:
No problem- you're definitely onto something there- even with the rachis being brown, it is still darker than the hens. Thankyou for pointing it out earlier- every snippet of information is helpful (:

Yes, you're right! His tail does get darker toward the end (had to go out and have a look)- will see if I can capture that head on.
I agree so many questions that I want answered- am hoping others with Green SL Edged birds will join in and post so we can see the variances between everyone's birds and hopefully draw some calculated conclusions to later backup with some evidence :mrgreen:

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:46 pm

Ah, here we go:
Just a pitty that photobucket downgrades the quality of the images- but nevermind.

Image

so, if hens have the same phenotype as df cocks- would a df cock have the same coloured rachis as a hen?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:10 am

sheyd wrote:so, if hens have the same phenotype as df cocks- would a df cock have the same coloured rachis as a hen?
It should. Tienie owns a DF SL edged cock and can hopefully assist with a close-up photo of the the tail with tip included.

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:04 am

no photo needed (though would be nice :mrgreen: ) just confirmation.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Carr.birds » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:02 am

Johan & Shey

I own 3 df sl edged cocks, blue, greygreen and dblue, but unfortunately nothing in green. Pics will follow tomorrow

Tienie

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:25 pm

Looking forward to them Tienie :)

Thankyou for taking the time out to do this.

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:39 pm

still no open wing shots- am either in the wrong position, or I can't get my camera to focus in time- but thought this picture might be appreciated- wonderfully shows how she can be chameleon bird :)
(pic was taken in morning, and with no sun on the bird)

Image

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:33 am

Tienie, I know you said that you don't have the Green Cinnamon SL Edged hen anymore, but could you describe her colour and did it change like the one I've posted?

Wish I could find another Green Edged hen to compare- not only am I intrigued, the colour of the op hen is also pretty-but unfortunately finding them to buy will be difficult as not many know what edged birds are.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Mad Max » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:28 am

I have a turquoise grey SL edged that displays in the same way going from light grey to a dirty white (depending on the sun position)
I dont have many edges in my collection and I have not looked at the tail , I will check as soon as I have a chance and give feed back then

Robert

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Mad Max » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:33 am

I forgot to add that the guy I bought the turquoise grey from said it could be a split cinnamon if it was a male. I have not had it sexed yet so I dont know .
hope this helps you
Robert

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:56 am

Robert, we should be able to sex visually if you can upload a photo. Or send me a PM and you can email it to me for upload.

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:59 pm

Interesting Robert- would love to see a photo.

The sun was to the right of that side of the aviary, with all of the aviary shaded- apart from where the corrugation iron allowed some sunlight in at the top the back- as can see in the pic (aviary is against 6ft fence), and the time according to the camera was taken at 10.31 in the morning.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Mad Max » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:33 am

Hi Thanks Johan

I work during the week and will only have time over the weekend , but I will take you up on the offer this weekend

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Ring0Neck
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:22 am

I'm missing s-thing.
Tiennie, Madas, Johan & whoever has edged.

I have this mature pair that has bred for about 3 years for another breeder.
Pair as i know is:
Male: EF Edged DF Parblue/cinn
Hen: df parblue grey edged cinnamon

With this pair i should not be able to breed any non Edged males, only hens.

Yet the breeder has bred this male and others from this pair.

Image

He's a non edged: df parblue (i assume Indigo)
He sold the males before i could get/see them.
I have them paired up to see for myself this season, meanwhile...

**** It brings me to only 1 conclusion: Hen is not sl edged !

Here she is:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/xs.JPG

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/xso.JPG

Any thoughts???



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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:47 am

Ring0Neck wrote:I'm missing s-thing.
Tiennie, Madas, Johan & whoever has edged.

I have this mature pair that has bred for about 3 years for another breeder.
Pair as i know is:
Male: EF Edged DF Parblue/cinn
Hen: df parblue grey edged cinnamon

With this pair i should not be able to breed any non Edged males, only hens.

Yet the breeder has bred this male and others from this pair.

He's a non edged: df parblue (i assume Indigo)

**** It brings me to only 1 conclusion: Hen is not sl edged !
Or the hen is cinnamon and incorrectly identified as edged cinnamon? Edged and cinnamon mutations express very similarly. To test this she needs to be paired to a normal cock to see if she gives edged sons.

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Ring0Neck
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:51 am

Johan,

Yes i thought about that. but a parblue cinnamon hen would look like the male in below pic.
the flight feathers on mine are body color not dark brown,
Image

http://psittacula-world.com/EN/Mutation ... nnamon.htm

I'm thinking it's cinnamon + something else other then edged. :?

cinnamon is rather easy to spot even in CT
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/cinnCTal.jpg


**** This phenotype matches my bird's
Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Carr.birds » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:51 pm

Ben & Johan

My apology for not joining in. Johan I agree with your statement if non edged cock are produced the mother can't be edged or the cocks you id as non edged are not well marked. From the pic (not so clear) I would say she isn't edged but cinnamon grey turq (indigo)

I have seen some bad marked edged cocks and all my pairings the last 8 years edged hens do produce edged cock babies.

Tienie

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:22 pm

From the flight pic she looks Cinnamon TurquoiseGrey (the flight and tail look a light brownish colour) but, take a pic with a flash if her eyes show up red, then no Edged- if they show up dark then re-examine the male offspring?

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Ring0Neck
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:38 pm

or the cocks you id as non edged are not well marked. From the pic (not so clear) I would say she isn't edged but cinnamon grey turq (indigo)

I have seen some bad marked edged cocks and all my pairings the last 8 years edged hens do produce edged cock babies.

Tienie


The other breeder id-ed the other males, i only seen the pic i posted.

You have a good point about the weak markings and it's the only explanation that makes sense to me.
I can't see that hen being just cinnamon grey parblue

here's another bunch form same breeder all clear flights
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgez.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgegreydf.jpg

I guess i'll have to wait till they breed to be sure.

Shey ->
then re-examine the male offspring
the breeder sold them, i only got hens non edged and the pic where flights can not be seen.
Image

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:46 pm

take a photo of the hen with a flash anyway- can't hurt- and besides I'm curious! :lol:

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Ring0Neck
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:16 pm

Ok
Here you go.
Flash around 3pm
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/flash.jpg

no flash
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/noFL.jpg

you can download to ur PC to zoom in for a closer look.


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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:17 am

Dark eyes (with a flash)- anyone know how does that? SL Edged isn't the only mutation that can do that either :!:

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:45 pm

For OZ Breeders

I have 3 eggs available from Edged pair if anyone wants them. she is still laying eggs (i hope)
I used the pair for fostering other eggs.
Pretty sure they are fertile.
eggs were removed as they were laid so they have not been incubated.


pair: first 2 from the left
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/3edged.jpg


pity i had to sacrifice these eggs, i was keen to see the offspring however i could not resist the urge to get this season the long awaited bird: turq. violet CHF.


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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:54 pm

If only you were in Cairns!
Last edited by sheyd on Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Johan S
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:00 am

Ring0Neck wrote: i could not resist the urge to get this season the long awaited bird: turq. violet CHF.
That'll be a beauty well worth breeder... I could really use a hen like that.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:49 am

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Last 2 pics were at under 12 months. First 3 were at 36 months old.

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:34 am

Wow! that second last pic you posted looks very similar! so, wait! she got 'yellower' as she got older? That's amazing :)

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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:40 am

The mustardy yellow definately came out more as she matured hey... Unfortunately i lost her in Feb, so wont know what will happen further... I have one of her green edged / cinnamon sons i am hoping to breed next year to get babies her colour, and then will definately be keeping a baba for myself again, shame she was a lovely girl. Devil of a temper but i miss her terribly, silly thing.

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:55 am

that's sad- lovely you've kept a son- you'll have another like her again :)

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:56 am

sheyd wrote:Wow! that second last pic you posted looks very similar! so, wait! she got 'yellower' as she got older? That's amazing :)
That's good to know as i have some raising 3 y old cinnamon edged, looking forward to next molt.
Shey, how are the eggs? did you candle them yet?

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgepair.jpg
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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:16 am

Ring0Neck wrote:
sheyd wrote:Wow! that second last pic you posted looks very similar! so, wait! she got 'yellower' as she got older? That's amazing :)
That's good to know as i have some raising 3 y old cinnamon edged, looking forward to next molt.
Shey, how are the eggs? did you candle them yet?

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgepair.jpg
No, haven't yet- will do it tomorrow night- I found 3 surprises in the box today- they were all huddled up around your eggs :D Really hope the postman was kind, and that your eggs are good.
(crappy vid still- the other egg and baby are to the left)
Image

Did you end up keeping one or did she only lay 3- if you kept one, have you candled it yet?

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Ring0Neck
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:32 am

She only laid 3 but she's fostering 5 eggs for me.

Good thing we did not teach her to count :D

Congratz on ur young chix !


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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:47 am

Thanks Ben- this my first ever clutch! pretty stoked :mrgreen:

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:02 pm

Congrats Shey :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

Image

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:23 pm

Thanks Melissa :)

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:31 am

sheyd wrote:Thanks Ben- this my first ever clutch! pretty stoked :mrgreen:
Well done! :D

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:30 am

Johan S wrote:
sheyd wrote:Thanks Ben- this my first ever clutch! pretty stoked :mrgreen:
Well done! :D
Thanks Johan :)

Ben- I pm'd you

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:44 pm

Below is the op hen's 6 week old son, the hen has the yellowish flights, the edged (unrelated) cock a few posts above also had yellowish flights (no longer have him) but this bird doesn't- which means from the breeding results, that the two above are/were also Cinnamon- they are also a lot more 'yellow' in colour whereas this one is 'greener'.

Green/Cinnamon SL Edged cock.
Image

Image

he will be paired to a Cinnamon hen in the future to prove/disprove Cinnamon.

Below is the op hen's other Green/Cinnamon SL Edged son and Wildtype Green daughter respectively
Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:23 pm

Beautiful clutch shey :) you should be darn proud of those results.
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

Image

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:08 am

Thanks Melissa :D

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:19 am

The pattern on the other edged boy - would this be considered as 'not well marked?'

(pic not a true representation of colour)
Image

Found these on the aviary floor a couple of days ago and thought it might be of some interest- flight feathers of the parents (Wildtype on top, Green SL Edged Cinnamon on bottom)
Image

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:26 am

SL Edged pics of Carmen's (posted with permission)

Blue
Image

Cobalt TurquioseBlue
Image

Image

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:35 am

another argument for Cinnamon in this bird- look at his rachis-

Image

it is much, much lighter than this cock who can only be split for Cinnamon

Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:51 am

Shey,

if the older bird is a hen then you're forgetting hen's edged phenotype is same as a df edged male.

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:47 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:Shey,

if the older bird is a hen then you're forgetting hen's edged phenotype is same as a df edged male.

nope not forgetting- that bird was determined to be a cock by some members of the board (and myself)

Rachis:
Image
same bird on the far right- hen on the left
Image
hen at the front, cock at the back
Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by McmillanBirds » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:07 am

Hi all

Just a few pics. A cobalt turq edged. I have placed a standard blue baby next to it so one can see the comparison. The edging has made the baby appear quite a bit lighter. I assumed normal blue so pulled from the nest, when I had it next to the other blue baby I realised my mistake.

Taken last week
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The standard blues wing
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The cobalt turq edged wing
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when compared together at that age
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wing comparison done on sunday just before I took the blue baby to its new home
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tail comparison
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and finally some pics taken today
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Here are pics of the one sibling. A turq grey edged(?masking cobalt)

last week
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today
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And finally, Shey, just for you as you are interested in the green series edged babies

2 grey green edged babies, 1 is better marked than the other
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So, after those millions of photos( i have a serious addiction :roll: :lol: ) I hope they come in handy :lol:

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:45 am

great set of pics Carmen! looking forward to how they all end up looking.
love the GreyGreen edged- I reluctantly passed up on a edged GreyGreen Cinnamon hen a couple of days ago as I don't currently have the aviary space to add Grey- I know the person who breeds the edged though, so will be keeping a close eye on what next pops up for sale... :)

PS.. I have a serious photo taking addiction too!

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Re: SL Edged

Post by McmillanBirds » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:54 pm

Hi all

An update

?cobalt turq grey edged, pics were taken with a camera, just over a week ago before it went to its new home.

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I will try get updated images for this baby.

Cobalt turq edged, pic taken with my phone last night. Will do proper photos in natural light when the weather clears.

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This is another sibling of these 2. A creamino (?cobalt ?edged)

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And then the 2 grey green edged babies

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Re: SL Edged

Post by McmillanBirds » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:32 pm

updated pics

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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:40 pm

Any idea what these marking could be from on this young female? She is a year old now.
She has the black looking marking since a chick.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:19 am

Those grey green edged babies are so beautiful. :D
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Re: SL Edged

Post by McmillanBirds » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:26 am

Skyes_crew wrote:Those grey green edged babies are so beautiful. :D
Thanks :) waiting for the dna results to come back. I think they are both males though, keeping one for future breeding.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:12 am

I'd have a hard time letting go of either of them :D

SCB22...it looks like stress barring or maybe damage to the feather structure. Has she had her year old molt yet? If it doesn't disappear with that, then I have no idea.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:15 am

Skyes_crew wrote:I'd have a hard time letting go of either of them :D

SCB22...it looks like stress barring or maybe damage to the feather structure. Has she had her year old molt yet? If it doesn't disappear with that, then I have no idea.
She has had it since a chick, and seems a male sibling in another household has it too, yes she moulted once last year and once this year and it only seems to have increased with moults... I thought stress barring too, but she is a happy well adjusted bird, with plenty of time out the cage, and never shows any signs of anything to stress her out...

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:02 am

When the new feathers break through, is it dark immediately or does it gradually turn dark? Also, what are the parents of the birds?
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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:38 am

They are immediately dark, father was a normal green, mother was green cinnamon edged bird.

3 males and 1 female in the clutch.

Only in touch with owner of the one male and this female.
And seems they both have the odd marking, but i am trying to get more recent pics of the male, but here is one

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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:39 am

That was before his moult this year, same as the female, and hers got darker, i am trying to see if the male has gotten darker as well.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:46 am

I found this great article on fault barring...but I'm not so sure it applies if the marks are getting darker each molt. Are they in the same identical location each time?

http://www.birdresearch.dk/unilang/faul ... ltbar5.pdf
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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:12 am

its hard to tell, seems to be the same place, and darker. Male has more of a set "pattern" across his wings, where as she seems to be a bit more all over the place?

Glanced over the article, and i just find it strange that 2 birds, in complete different households, one is an aviary bird, one an indoors pet, should have the same / similar markings, and are brother and sister, it is 2 different set ups and situations if you know what i mean? if both birds had been in the same household i would have said that its fault / stress barring ?

Anyone else have any idea?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by trabots » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:29 am

Pluck a couple of adjacent blackened feathers outside of moulting time. They will no doubt grow in ok and then start losing colour and are brittle at the ends which get ragged from normal preening. I had the same feather issues with some of my lorikeets. Improved diet seemed to assist. It is not a colour mutation.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by SCB 22 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:32 am

i dont see how their diets could be improved any further, they are on a pellet diet, in addition to seeds as well as a selection of fresh fruit and veg? not an identical diet as they are in different homes, but the same basic elements. Different brand of pellets and offered different fruit and veg.

As mentioned one is a wild avairy bird, one is an indoor pet, i just find it odd that 2 birds in the different circumstances have the same thing.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:05 am

Part of that article addresses fault barring as a genetic occurrence. It is possible that they are just more susceptible to surrounding stressors...ie...noise, handling, weather. When the feather structure becomes brittle it breaks off or becomes ragged and leaves a darkened almost purple like appearance.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:33 am

I have a really good mentor :D
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:41 pm

OP hen's true colours are finally being revealed- and (Ben & Johan) finally a shot of her flights! :)

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her son
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:41 pm

Wow he's beautiful!!!!!
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:05 pm

OP hen's true colours are finally being revealed- and (Ben & Johan) finally a shot of her flights! :)


Sky,
Are you talking about me or Johan? :lol:
Bird is a she ;)


Shey,
IYO what is she?
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:42 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:
OP hen's true colours are finally being revealed- and (Ben & Johan) finally a shot of her flights! :)


Sky,
Are you talking about me or Johan? :lol:
Bird is a she ;)


Shey,
IYO what is she?

Ummm...no comment :mrgreen:

The son in the last pic lol
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:22 am

Skyes_crew wrote:
Ring0Neck wrote:
OP hen's true colours are finally being revealed- and (Ben & Johan) finally a shot of her flights! :)


Sky,
Are you talking about me or Johan? :lol:
Bird is a she ;)


Shey,
IYO what is she?

Thanks Mel- :D


Lol @ the first bit!!
Ben- she's a well marked Cinnamon Green SL Edged as far as I know.. I thought you were waiting for the flight shots- I've been waiting since April? myself lol

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:09 am

Yes & Yes :D Nice shots
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:43 am

Ring0Neck wrote:
OP hen's true colours are finally being revealed- and (Ben & Johan) finally a shot of her flights! :)


Sky,
Are you talking about me or Johan? :lol:
Bird is a she ;)


Shey,
IYO what is she?
:lol:

IMO, cinnamon edged green. When you look at the hen, one can see that there are some very diluted feathers, and some brighter ones. This isn't uncommon this time of the year with cinnamon birds. And of course, edged is seen in her flights and it is visible in her son (sex-linked dominant).

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:14 pm

Ring0Neck wrote: :D Nice shots
:) thanks- I can't wait for her to re-emerge

those newer feathers are very similar in shade/colour to her 3 month old son's-- speaking of which, does anyone know if SL Edge darkens with age?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:47 pm

here they are altogether;

Wildtype sire (top) Cinnamon Green SL Edge dam (left) and Green sf SL Edge/Cinnamon offspring(right)


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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:58 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:
Ring0Neck wrote: {bare in mind this (being SL Edged) is the only mutation in IRNs where females look different (lighter) then sf males}.
... of the same age :D
but then, the pic of your chick would be irrelevant..? ps- my chick and intheair's chick are of the same age just about-

I have asked another edged breeder about my chick, and they have said that sf males are slightly lighter than Wildtype, not much difference between them- which is inline with what we already know.
I have asked to see a pic of his Green sf edged cock in together with a Wildtype so I could see a comparison between his- I am yet to see this difference (whatever it is) from a different bloodline.

let's discuss over here- so not to take away from Clare's thread
Ben,
any chance you could take some pics of your sfViolet Blue sf SL Edged chick in with some of your other sfViolet Blue (can be Parblue or straight) chicks for some comparison shots?

Anyone have a pic of a Green SL Edged hen (without Cinnamon) preferably next to a Wildtype?

Mother & son
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... 999244.jpg

Father & son
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... 9df04d.jpg

I've asked:
those newer feathers are very similar in shade/colour to her 3 month old son's-- speaking of which, does anyone know if SL Edge darkens with age?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:02 am



Will take some pics as soon as i can.
The others are in a flight cage

See this post
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=17337#p97016


--------------------------------------------------
lets take green color and start from beginning

We're most likely to see 6 different SL Edged here in OZ being:
SF Edged Male
DF Edged Male
SL Edged hen
Cinnamon SF Edged male
Cinnamon DF Edged male
Cinnamon Edged hen


hen's color is closer to a DF SL Edged male

Shey, which ones are yours?
I don't have edged in green so i'm of little help, perhaps Tiennie will chip in.


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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:13 am

whenever you can Ben, no rush (appreciate it)

thanks for the link to the other thread- interesting on Tienie's edged cock being split for adm Pied and being of a lighter phenotype than what is considered 'normal' although I can not tell how much the colour deviates without a reference bird in the pic. It also ties in neatly with my cocks feet description asked by me earlier in another thread--- seems it could be a possibility.

Interested in Tienie's thoughts :)

Anyhow, the two (edged) are as follows-

SF Edged Male--------------------------Youngster
DF Edged Male
SL Edged hen
Cinnamon SF Edged male
Cinnamon DF Edged male
Cinnamon Edged hen------------------------------Dam

youngster: dark overcast days -no flash
Image

Image
to me, his phenotype is what I'd expect a Green SL Edged hen to look like.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:49 am

Pics of the violet edged male

Image

cleared up the fog, same image

Image
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:13 am

Thanks Ben- seems we get a bit of a variance between different lines- There was one pic I saw just recently 8) that I thought for sure must have been a hen due to it's very light appearance- but nope it's a cock--- was one of your birds :lol: So it seems we get some sf cocks extremely diluted and others in-between, others that look almost normal.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:38 am

Hi Shey,

Have you considered DF Edged & perhaps Cinnamon?
& if you look at cinnamon pics during moult you will surely get a difference, even in the same bird how it looked before/during/after moult, during they look better than pieds.

any of these?
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/edgez.jpg

Most Pairs i acquired were males edged split cinn & cinn edged hens
so DF & Cinn was always on the table for all offspring.

Edged will certainly keep us entertained, & i also keep an open mind in case there's another mutation in play through my edged.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:45 am

sheyd wrote:So it seems we get some sf cocks extremely diluted and others in-between, others that look almost normal.
I agree with this. Lots of variation in SF edged males.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:48 am

Would you like to elaborate Johan?

I noticed mentions in posts re variation of Edged phenotype, perhaps you could extend on that for us?

overall we have 4 most common phenotypes for males in OZ as most have been cinn. crossed

sf edged, sf edged cinn. df edged, df edged cinn.

and perhaps a great variation as Johan mentioned :!:
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:35 am

Shey,

I just had another look at the pic i uploaded and it looks rather light the violet edged.
Ask Clair, she has seen it.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:37 am

We have two lines, two fairly well marked male birds, and some males from a decent looking hen, yet her sons aren't that well marked. Tienie is the person to speak to regarding variation, he has a huge collection of edged birds compared to ours.

Mother
Image
Son
Image

Different cock, much better marked
Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:03 am

Johan S wrote:We have two lines, two fairly well marked male birds, and some males from a decent looking hen, yet her sons aren't that well marked. Tienie is the person to speak to regarding variation, he has a huge collection of edged birds compared to ours.
Maybe alleles of the same locus??? Remember here in Germany we a breeder who is owning birds which look and inherit like "SL Edged" birds but he still believes both mutations are different. I will start a new topic about it then i have some more freetime. Pics could be find here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=17290&hilit=exhibi ... 50#p103873

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:12 am

Madas, it's not impossible. I personally don't prefer to explain different expressions of a similar mutation as alleles, but rather to think of alleles as completely different mutations at the same locus (say pastel, bronze fallow, NSLino and DEC; all with unique characteristics). Or in other words, no amount of selective breeding of one allele with the wildtype will change the phenotype of that allele into another, so pallid x wildtype will never result in SLino (of course pallid x SLino could dilute pallid eventually, so I tried to choose my words carefully).

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:00 pm

The one on the left I think Ben. imo Cinnamon doesn't make much difference to the overall body colour in blue series edged birds, apart from the flights (& claws- also the central feather tail shaft). From what I have seen so far.
Maybe alleles of the same locus???
Stefan, I have recently wondered this myself

Johan- I wonder if it's possible that dfDark may have an erasing effect on edged- meaning that it can't display/display as it normally would?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:16 pm

Shey,

That's a DF SL Edged Cinnamon Blue male.

We get scalloping effect on:
DF Edged Cinnamon males
EF Edged Cinnamon hens


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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:30 pm

sheyd wrote:Johan- I wonder if it's possible that dfDark may have an erasing effect on edged- meaning that it can't display/display as it normally would?
Shey, it's not entirely impossible. I have wondered the same thing in the past. And from discussions with other breeders, they have also started noticing that dfDark and even sfDark reduces the effect. Having said that, I've seen a sfDark edged bird at a friend that I was sure was a female since it was very well marked. Turns out to be a male. And we haven't had young edged males that we kept back until these mauve birds, so I haven't seen the effect of aging on edged first hand either.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:47 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:Shey,

That's a DF SL Edged Cinnamon Blue male.

We get scalloping effect on:
DF Edged Cinnamon males
EF Edged Cinnamon hens


I think of edged as having two components- markings and dilution- so 'scalloping' falls under the markings category for me- I look at markings second to dilution.

I do not think we are talking of the same bird (but was from you originally)- certainly one was shown of your friend's that could be considered a df (until proven otherwise)- but that was different in that it's head remained undiluted while it's body clearly was- typically like every other df edged cock . The other who had me fooled -was nicely diluted (light) all over and a cock-not unlike my cock.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:12 pm

Shey.

I would wait till all birds are finished moulting to see the real phenotype.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:21 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:Shey.

I would wait till all birds are finished moulting to see the real phenotype.
as far as I know df cocks don't moult into their heads later- say like a CT. - I'm not dismissing the idea of the youngster being df- right now he doesn't fit into that model.. like I said before- I thought for sure he was a hen- until I saw updated pics of him and his ring forming.

- Johan- thanks- yes, will be interesting to see how your edged Mauve matures.--- if by chance you get any shots of his wing markings, could you post on them on here please :)?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:42 am

update-

midway through first moult:

(sf SL Edged cock)

Image

Wildtype sire in the middle, Cinn SL Edged dam to the left & sf SL Edged youngster on the right

Image

will update with new pics after he finishes his moult.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by InTheAir » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:39 am

I love your pics, shey!
My violet edged girl has quite light pink feet and nails, is that part of edged mutation or from something else? She is around the same age as your little one.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:47 pm

Thanks Claire :D

If yours has light/pink feet and nails I would lean towards Cinnamon myself--- what were her nest siblings- and the sire? In my opinion, SL Edged birds have lighter feet and nails when compared to normals- but lighter again when Cinnamon is also involved. Do you have a pic?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by InTheAir » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:44 pm

sheyd wrote:Thanks Claire :D

If yours has light/pink feet and nails I would lean towards Cinnamon myself--- what were her nest siblings- and the sire? In my opinion, SL Edged birds have lighter feet and nails when compared to normals- but lighter again when Cinnamon is also involved. Do you have a pic?
I only saw one sibling, who was violet blue. I haven't seen her parents, she was a fostered egg from elsewhere.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:07 pm

They look like Cinnamon feet to me :lol:

cinn edge feet:
Image

edge feet:
Image

please forgive their unkempt appearance- both are midway through their moults- and thus aren't looking their best
Last edited by sheyd on Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by InTheAir » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:28 pm

Thanks. They are super light compared to our turquoise blues little tootsies.

Ben? What do you think?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:33 pm



As Shey said, in Oz most Edged were paired to Cinnamon so it would not surprise me if cinnamon as well.
However, this is what i call pink feet and your pic shows on my monitor light colored feet, not sure about pinkish.
pic below of grey whwt hen, no cinnamon but that's what i call pink feet

Image
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Re: SL Edged

Post by InTheAir » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:56 pm

Thanks guys.
Ben, you're right her feet aren't as light as your example. Not quite as dark as sheyds especially in the nails.
This might be a dumb question, do nails darken as the bird matures?

Shey, mines moulting too, hence why there was as little of the bird as possible in my photo. She looks pretty manky!

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:50 pm

she has 'pretty' pink nails :lol: I would go with Cinnamon personally- Cinn in the blue series does seem to have 'pinker' feet. On the nails/feet darkening- it could be possible- though your hen's feet are lighter than my cocks of the same age- I'll say she'll retain her light feet.

Is it possible to get an open wing shot after she finishes her moult? love to see her markings and level of dilution
......
yeah- pretty ratty looking at the moment my two are- the sire finished his moult a few weeks back- he looks great compared to them :lol:

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Re: SL Edged

Post by InTheAir » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:04 am

The nails are the only pretty bit at present, I'll try for some photos when she looks nice again.
We have the same situation as you, Nila looks like a supermodel and she's a scruff ball! I can't wait until she replaces her tatty baby tail so we can see what the tips will look like.

Your hen has dark highlights on her beak? Sapphires beak is turning a richer red, but no sign of darkening on the bottom or tip. .. I can't remember when Nilas got the black bits. Do you know what age beaks darken like that?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:28 am



This is a Cinnamon Violet hen

Image
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:30 am

Claire- she has mostly a red upper mandible with a brownish-red lower mandible- in pics it comes out darker looking than what it actually is.

for the juvs- I have noticed that normals of the same age and younger, are getting/have got their black lower beaks- my youngster is starting to develop his now- perhaps the edged birds take longer? Ben- how about an update on yours??? (including a wing spread) :D

edit to add pic
Image
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Re: SL Edged

Post by InTheAir » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:00 am

Ben, that don't look at all like my girl in the feather tones, but it's a photo. I've got a heap of photos of one bird that all look different. Cinnamon violets that I've seen in the flesh don't have such a vibrant blue/violet hue as Saph.
This is about what my eye was seeing at the time I was videoing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r-0BrO57bs It was around midday, her colour is heavily affected by lighting conditions. I think we could use her as a uv meter. The other videos I've uploaded she ls way more grey in artificial light.
I think the easiest solution would be for you and your lovely wife to come visit us and explain what my bird is and the factors that lead to that conclusion :wink: we live near a nice beach and there's this really funny street performer lady who does a great contortion show most evenings.

Sheyd, I'll be watching her beak for signs of darkening over the next few months then.
What should I be reading so I don't need to ask you guys a hundred dumb questions? Best book recommendation?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:30 am


Shey,

Watch out for the "mailman" I sent you a bunch of .... feathers :lol: .
I no longer have the young edged violet i bred
it is now in the southern state.
Clair's bird does not carry cinnamon IMO, what i'm interested to find out in the next seasons if our edged is mixed with s-thin else...

Funny thing is, my turq edged is a better looking bird then my pieds without turq. and similar to turq pieds. :idea:

Clair,
Watch out for the "mailman" :? we'll send you Nila's paintings in the next days.
The videos came out bad .. :lol: I entrusted my boys to doit... i give you a quick "audio" what they were saying while filming.
"Man, what if someone steals the laptop?" :lol: Kids....
Thanks for the invite! we might take you up on that offer one of these days.
Best book recommendation?
Just ask here ;)


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Re: SL Edged

Post by InTheAir » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:22 pm

Lmao! Bummer about the video. Did you get any photos? I'd like to get Dave to put one up on Nilas page.
Just let us know if you're heading up this way so I can bake a cake and check Sapphires colour for the uv index and burn times at the beach. :mrgreen:

If her beak doesn't change soon I'll be back on here with more silly questions.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:23 pm

InTheAir wrote:Best book recommendation?
Heard Deon Smith's book is good- as well as Basstians and Terry Martin's.

I don't own any- better to come and learn from everyone here- books are easily outdated when new info comes to light.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:34 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:
Shey,

I no longer have the young edged violet i bred
it is now in the southern state.

*sad face* did you get an open wing shot before he went?

what i'm interested to find out in the next seasons if our edged is mixed with s-thin else...

by 'our' do you mean Australia's Edged- or yours? lol

Thanks for the feathers- I'll post them once they get here :D

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:08 pm

sheyd wrote:
InTheAir wrote:Best book recommendation?
Heard Deon Smith's book is good- as well as Basstians and Terry Martin's.

....
Deon's book is available on Chris's website to purchase.
I got the USB version & I strongly recommend it and it has plenty pics to get the points across nicely.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:24 am

InTheAir wrote:Best book recommendation?
order best to is ok:

Terry Martin (for beginner and professionals) => Deon Smith (more for professionals) => Bastiaan 2nd book (for beginner and as picture reference)

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Re: SL Edged

Post by InTheAir » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:08 pm

Thanks for the book tips guys. What about A guide to Asiatic Parrots in Australia?
I think I've seen the Terry Martin book in stores here, so I think I'll get that one up first.

Shey, alas no open wing shots, but the little terror did stay still long enough today to get a pic from behind that kind of shows her markings. Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:38 am

NG sent me an recent pic the blue edged he got off me and i thought i share the pic as it is a beaut.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:10 am

I agree! nice bird- I joked with Nigel that you were silly for getting rid of that one lol! ps- you were right- the light head (that he had) darkened up to normal colouring- learn something new everyday :wink:

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:14 am

:lol:

Most birds i let go i feel silly that i did :cry:
Unfortunately, can't keep them all :?

Next week, 4 going out (silly me) - and 5 come in. :P

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:42 am

Yeah, that's a great bird! :mrgreen:

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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:39 am

Ring0Neck wrote:NG sent me an recent pic the blue edged he got off me and i thought i share the pic as it is a beaut.

Image
So looks like a homozyguos SL Edged blue. Right? And cinnamon as well because of the brownish quills.

thx

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:01 pm

Hi Madas, yes he's believed to be homozygous
.......

For interests sake, here's what he looked like before maturity-

Image
Ring0Neck wrote:NG sent me an recent pic the blue edged he got off me and i thought i share the pic as it is a beaut.

Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:11 pm

So looks like a homozyguos SL Edged blue. Right? And cinnamon as well because of the brownish quills.


Madas,
Spot on, that's what i think he is.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Carr.birds » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:55 pm

Hi Ben & Madas

I agree he is a df sl edged but his feet is to dark to be a cinnamon

Tienie

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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:05 pm

Carr.birds wrote:Hi Ben & Madas

I agree he is a df sl edged but his feet is to dark to be a cinnamon

Tienie
Ah oh. But why is the brid showing brownish quills? Is it typical for a homozyguos SL Edged?

thx for input.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:05 am



My thoughts: being a Homozygot edged could overide the cinnamon effect on feet coloring!?




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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:23 am

This would be a Homozygous (DF) Edged Blue
Image
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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:40 am

Carr.birds wrote: but his feet is to dark to be a cinnamon
So what is more important the color of the feet or the color of the nails (the horn parts)???
If the nails are brown could we then conclude it's a cinnamon???

thx

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:59 am

Could also be Misty instead of Cinnamon?!
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:20 am

Ring0Neck wrote:Could also be Misty instead of Cinnamon?!
I don't think that is it, either. Misty tends to take very diluted blue and make it a greyish/silver colour. This bird, even in the very diluted back region, shows a vibrant blue colour.

I'm with Tienie on this one, homozygous edged bird without cinnamon.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:47 pm

Tienie- initially I thought my young ef edged cock was split Cinnamon- now I think he is Cinnamon visually- what do you think?

taken today- Wildtype sire, youngster below

Image

(sorry not the best, taken with phone)

Appreciate your thoughts

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Re: SL Edged

Post by barkha alisha » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:18 am

i am new here and i dont know how to set avater although i`ve tried alot i`ve also search it at FAQs but no answer would you pllz help me how to get my pics when i treid there was`nt browes button there and cannot send image to any one ppppppppplllllllllllllllllllllllllllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz help plz how do ou do that help plz

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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:22 am

barkha alisha wrote:i am new here and i dont know how to set avater although i`ve tried alot i`ve also search it at FAQs but no answer would you pllz help me how to get my pics when i treid there was`nt browes button there and cannot send image to any one ppppppppplllllllllllllllllllllllllllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz help plz how do ou do that help plz
Klick here ucp.php?i=164. On the left side is a link called "Edit avatar"

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Carr.birds » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:00 am

Shey

Nice light colour for a cock. Can't see feet that great but would say SL Edged-cinnamon

Tienie

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:01 pm

Thanks Tienie :)

I couldn't figure out why he was so light- I had previously dismissed the idea of him being a visual Cinnamon as I thought sf SL Edged Cinnamon's would have brown feather shafts and not dark grey (almost black) shafts like he does.

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... r3qhc4.jpg
pictured with his SL Edged Cinnamon dam. Another phone pic- apologies for the quality.

.........
better quality pics of feet are pictured a few posts above- they are darker slightly than his dams, and with darker nails.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:12 pm

Hi All
This photo was sent to me by a friend that started working with a line of CH Fallows awhile ago and this year being her first breeding season produced 4 babies in the nest, two of which are normal, one we believe to be a SL Edged, the fourth one we believe to be an SL Edged CH Fallow, however viewing some other phenotypes on this forum we are starting to wonder whether it is SL Edged or Opaline, as this young one had pure white down and clear feet as a baby (only 1 of the 4). The bird we are calling the progenitor of this line is a special CH Fallow that is not related in anyway to the the normal family of CH Fallows.
Cheers
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:31 pm

Hi Paul, do you have pictures of the other offspring and the parents?

From your picture, the tail has the same shade of blue as the body, so I don't think opaline (where tail dilution occurs) is involved. I also don't see any edging (patchy melanin reduction) in the tail feather, nor any discolouration (lightening from black to dark grey/brown all the way to beige for females) in the rachis. Pink/clear feet are normal for fallows and also doesn't indicate a combination. My guess would have been a blue CHF and the picture was taken with a flash. Am I missing a key indicator (haven't had my morning coffee yet)?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:02 pm

Johan S wrote:Hi Paul, do you have pictures of the other offspring and the parents?

From your picture, the tail has the same shade of blue as the body, so I don't think opaline (where tail dilution occurs) is involved. I also don't see any edging (patchy melanin reduction) in the tail feather, nor any discolouration (lightening from black to dark grey/brown all the way to beige for females) in the rachis. Pink/clear feet are normal for fallows and also doesn't indicate a combination. My guess would have been a blue CHF and the picture was taken with a flash. Am I missing a key indicator (haven't had my morning coffee yet)?
fallows are having red eyes. So does the bird have red eyes??? Furthermore CHF are having a translucent iris which you can clearly see in the pic.
And the main flights showing some kind of edging. But it could also be the pic.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:01 am

Madas, we must be looking at different pics? :shock: That bird has a typical CHF eye on my screen, dark red with no iris (like a youngster). It has pink feet and a red lower mandible. I stand by what I said, that is a blue CHF. Possibly something else combined, but I'm missing clear indicators for a combination.

Paul, do you have more pics?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:03 am

Johan the reason we suspect opaline in the mix is the original cock CH (progenitor) was rumoured to have been split opaline and having viewed a photo posted by Ben of one of Carr birds ref:http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/SL%20Edge ... mother.jpg we thought the resemblance to our subject bird to close to dismiss this possibility there has been a CH blue cock with white flights produced in this family this bird is a full coloured adult and is the father to the mother of these birds that appears in the photo with her young these birds are the product of a very tight gene pool and the father to these young is a blue split CH and is out of the original progenitor the attached photo's are natural light no flash.Q- is it a requirement of the sl edge mutation to have dilute or faded rachis in the flight feathers ? Note the other sibling showing sl edge is a cock bird.Both sl edged birds have been shown with their wing spread these birds although both blue are very different body hue to each other and to their mother.
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IMG_0011.JPG
Mother & 2 Edged Babies
IMG_0011.JPG (80.19 KiB) Viewed 38141 times
image.jpeg
Family Shot Mother & 4 Babies
image.jpeg (95.18 KiB) Viewed 38141 times
image.jpeg
Flight & Tail Feathers of Subject Bird
image.jpg
Wing of Subject Bird
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1.jpg
Wing of SL Edged Brother
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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:22 am

Johan S wrote:Madas, we must be looking at different pics? :shock: That bird has a typical CHF eye on my screen, dark red with no iris (like a youngster). It has pink feet and a red lower mandible. I stand by what I said, that is a blue CHF. Possibly something else combined, but I'm missing clear indicators for a combination.

Paul, do you have more pics?
Hi haven't said you are wrong.

You wrote:
Johan S wrote: Am I missing a key indicator (haven't had my morning coffee yet)?
The red eyes and the "no iris" are the missing key indicators. :)
Btw: the iris is not missing it is translucent resp. transparent. ;)

regards.

madas

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:31 am

Paul, thanks for the pics. When the entire family is shown, one can very clearly see why you believe there is something different to these birds. I agree that there is something else at play. I don't believe it is edged or opaline, though. When one look at the young and possibilities, I'm inclined to believe the original bird (progenitor) was split for cinnamon, not opaline. To me, one of the young looks like a blue cinnamon. And of course, the red eyes (more ruby, less pink like ino) of the chicks would tend to confuse the matter as well. I think that when one tries to pick out two mutations that are the closest to one another, cinnamon and edged would be two very good contenders. Cinnamon birds also often tend to show that very small dilution around the rachis in the flight feathers. In the picture of the mother and 2 babies, one also notices a large amount of fading between the feathers of the hen and the offspring. This is also typical of cinnamon. Of course, I can only offer an opinion based on pictures. You guys with access to the birds will ultimately be able to consider the opinion and work with it as a possibility or dismiss it with motivation.

Madas, I now see the confusion. I meant to say indicators of a combination, not of CHF. I thought the sentence before the quoted one would clear up the CHF issue. :D

Now here is a spanner to throw in the works. And probably too radical to be the case here, but it's fun to play. What would a cinnamon misty look like? My bet, very close to the chick on the left of the family shot with the mother and 4 babies. The effect would be similar with CHF, which I sometimes think of as a 'smokey' fallow.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:07 pm

molossus wrote: if you ask well enough I will let you go home with a Misty blue chick this weekend.
@Johan: don't forget your camera. And take a lot of nice pics (Dhani, Emerald Dom. pieds and so on). ;)

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Carr.birds » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:53 pm

Forum Members

The mother isn't just a blue CHF. Her flight is to light. Imo can be one of 3 options SL Edged CHF blue or Cinnamon CHF blue or Misty CHF blue. If the cock isn't split cinnamon, cinnamon will be ruled out and the light CHF babiy's flights look different compared to cinnamon. If the "light CHF and edged" babies are both cocks I would say Edged is involved. If the babies are both sexes I would go for Misty and that will be my choice.

Will post a pic of a Dblue SL Edged CHF 2013 baby and 2012 ?Deep or Dblue SL Edged CHF later this week, unfortunately not sexed.

Tienie

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:59 pm

molossus wrote:if you ask well enough I will let you go home with a Misty blue chick this weekend.
That would be wonderful, thank you! :o I'll ask plenty nicely in person. :D
madas wrote:@Johan: don't forget your camera. And take a lot of nice pics (Dhani, Emerald Dom. pieds and so on). ;)
Madas, I'll ask my brother in law for his camera. I don't own a nice one. :(

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:36 am

molossus wrote:Jo words mean nothin oumaat. a nice Kalahari ribrack(smoked en alles) or that damned elusive rump stake (texan no less) ....
now thats asking ,,, real nicely. :P
Now there is a suggestion! :D

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:48 pm

Tienie
Thankyou for your input there are several cocks that have been produced in this line, 6 of which have sired clutches of babies there has been several CHF produced as well as normals (splits) none of these young have been cinnamon I would say we can rule this out. Both the edged young in the photo's are one hen and one cock so your choice is misty unfortunately I personally know very little about misty and that being the case both the owner of the birds and myself will appreciate all the information you can provide.

The following photo's 1)progenitor 2)father of mother 3)Open wing of brother to CHF.

Cheers
Paul
Attachments
IMG_0853.jpg
CHF White Flight Cock father to mother of subject babies
IMG_0853.jpg (16.21 KiB) Viewed 38999 times
035 - 20.jpg
CHF progenitor to the line and father to the Blue Split CHF Cock that sired the subject young
035 - 20.jpg (13.81 KiB) Viewed 38999 times
1.jpg
CHF progenitor to the line and father to the Blue Split CHF Cock that sired the subject young
1.jpg (34.42 KiB) Viewed 38999 times
John Hodoras - 7.jpg
CHF White Flight Cock father to mother of subject babies
John Hodoras - 7.jpg (22.01 KiB) Viewed 38999 times
Carolyns SL.jpg
Wing photo of brother to subject CHF this cock is split CHF
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:31 pm

interesting- do you have a photo of the sire of the four youngsters- if two are indeed SL Edged (one cock, one hen), then he needs to be SL Edged himself- as an edged hen is unable to have SL Edged female offspring unless she is paired to one herself.

Do you have a pic of the Grand dam (of the 4 youngsters) on the fathers side?

finally, it is a bit difficult to try and make out much detail in some of the pics- helps to post to a site like Photobucket:
http://s920.photobucket.com/ and then upload on here for larger pics.

Slightly off topic... what would a Cinnamon Clearheaded Fallow look like?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Carr.birds » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:38 pm

Paul

It is beautiful pics. Very interesting line. I know CHF is a grey fallow but these birds look like misty imo.

Please post a close up pic of the blue/chf cock (father to the babies), if he is a badly marked Blue SL Edged/chf it can still be edged with babies in both sexes.

I will have to sex my 2 SL Edged CHF birds to guide us in phenotype difference between male and female.

Tienie

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:20 pm

Carr.birds wrote: I will have to sex my 2 SL Edged CHF birds to guide us in phenotype difference between male and female.
Is it not the same for CHF? light brown/beige feather shafts for hens, and dark Grey/Black for sf cocks?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:46 am

Paul, very interesting birds! The first thing that stands out for me is that the flight feathers and the tail feathers are not both affected, as would be the case for SL edged. At least not one I've ever seen. This effect also seems more pronounced for the father of the mother rather than the father of the father (hope that isn't confusing). I'm not sure if misty would have this effect as I have no experience with misty. There are other possibilities too worth a brainstorming session. Clear flights are a marker of pied types, but it could also be a different type of edged. In other species a non-SL edged exists, and in IRN a rare recessive edged also exists. The first thing to establish from this line is the mode of inheritance.

Tienie, how does your SL edged CHF birds' tails look? Does it show the edging?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:17 pm

Hi all
Here is a photo of the father to the edged youngsters this bird along with 4 blue split chf fallow brothers all looked to be typical chf (coloured) only they did'nt have the red eyes or clearhead I had one IRN breeder visit me and he had me catch up these splits to examine them close up as he couldn't understand how these birds have the body colour of a chf when they are split their hue changes slightly at the second year moult. Another interesting feature is the proginator cock is black eyed with a normal iris .The photo attached ideally would have our father bird ( of young ) with a normal blue for reference bird in the same photo however we are currently having heat wave conditions that are not favourable to chasing birds about. The father bird photographed is currently moulting and doesn't have his full tail the photo has been taken in natural light without flash. This father bird (of young) was sired by the proginator cock the grand dam has been lost however she was not related to proginator cock therefore we can move on without her she was a split chf from N Armstrong line I believe. I have 2 x violet blue split chf brothers and sister that were bred the same way as the father (of young) and his 4 brothers, these birds are currently moulting too heavy to do anything with.

The white flight blue chf (father of mother) was sired by the proginator.

Cheers
Paul
Attachments
1.jpg
Wing of Father of young
image.jpeg
Father of young
image-2.jpeg
Tail of Father of young

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:48 pm

Indian Ringneck Vic wrote:Hi all
Here is a photo of the father to the edged youngsters
I don't see edged in this bird--- do you have an open wing/closer shot of the dam of the four youngsters?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:02 am

Green sl Dom. Edged
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:22 am

Looks like a cinnamon sl edged to me. :?:

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:27 am

not sure cause the father is blue edged and mom is pied so cant tell if the cock splits for cinnamon,didnt breed any other cinnamon out of him

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:31 am

Any chance for a photo of the pied mum?
Perhaps she is edged and we might be able to pick it up , or not :P
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:42 am

Here's a blue cinnamon edged/cleartailed hen
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:43 am

the mom is a green pied split blue

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:48 am

So, you're saying that you fairly confident she is not edged as well !?
I have not seen a green edged pied yet, i was hopefull the day has come :lol:
don't have any edged cleartail or pied do you?
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:50 am

blue cinnamon edged
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:52 am

have a green edged pied hen, and im sure she's normal pied

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:04 am

the dad of the green edged
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:06 am

update as promised on the sf SL Edged youngster who has completed his first semi moult

Image

I am not sure if he is Cinnamon also, but suspect it- will be test breeding his sire with a Cinn hen for this season-

Here's as he appeared before-
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... b60ab2.jpg
Last edited by sheyd on Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:11 am

What about a picture of the back of the bird*...

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:19 am

Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:What about a picture of the back of the bird*...
Here you go

Image

markings
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... c696e3.jpg

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:44 am

mmmm interesting bird

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sheyd
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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:11 am

mmmm interesting bird
I'm fairly sure he has Cinnamon- which would explain his overall colour - I just need to wait for this season (if true, sire is split- and will be going with a Cinn hen this season) and the next for the youngster to prove it.

Wildtype is the sire

Image

Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:34 am

hey guys I was wondering with SL edged can you only breed DF edged males if you put up a pair of SL edged together

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:54 am

As long as the the cock is sf, you'll get both df and sf cocks- as well as normal and edged hens- if he is df then you'll produce only df cocks, as well as edged hens.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Anthony anth Mc Geer » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:01 am

Okay cool...cause I just wanted to make sure that you can't breed DF edged Hens....

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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:32 am

Anthony anth Mc Geer wrote:Okay cool...cause I just wanted to make sure that you can't breed DF edged Hens....
You can't breed a SL Edged(df) female because females only have one Z-Chromosome which is relevant for the resulting phenotype. The W-chromsome of a female is atrophied and so not able to affect the phenotype. Therefore you can't breed a female Pallid-Ino too. :)

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:26 am

Blue df SL Edged cocks of NW -(posted with permission)

cock 1
Image

Image

cock 2
Image

Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:40 am

sheyd wrote:Blue df SL Edged cocks of NW -(posted with permission)

cock 1
Image

Image

cock 2
Image

Image
Sorry but cock1 is not the same mutation (combination) like cock2. Cock1 looks FUSI like and cock2 looks like a SL Edged(df) blue or a very good colored SL Edged(sf). :)

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:49 am

Sorry but cock1 is not the same mutation (combination) like cock2. Cock1 looks FUSI like and cock2 looks like a SL Edged(df) blue or a very good colored SL Edged(sf).
:lol: Good pickup Madas , didn't notice there was 2 diff birds.

Agree, just on Fusi i think = DF Edged Cinnamon or Dilute?/Misty?
I have setup a pair that should test for the second mutation if a rec. mutation is in play like Dilute.
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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:02 am

madas wrote:Sorry but cock1 is not the same mutation (combination) like cock2.
Eagle eyes! :lol:

Looking at the tails, I'd say the first one is a DF edged male (or a combination) and the second bird a SF edged male.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by madas » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:08 am

Johan S wrote:
madas wrote:Sorry but cock1 is not the same mutation (combination) like cock2.
Eagle eyes! :lol:

Looking at the tails, I'd say the first one is a DF edged male (or a combination) and the second bird a SF edged male.
thx. :P

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:18 pm

Good spotting Johan- even I missed that.

Cock 1 was posted previously on page 3 of this thread.
Will upload another bird in the morning

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:26 pm

TurquoiseBlue sf SL Edged

Image

Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:08 pm

sheyd wrote:Good spotting Johan- even I missed that.
Shey, that was all Madas. I missed it too until he pointed out they are different.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:45 pm

okay, getting confused here..

Madas pointed out that there were two birds -which i obviously knew,- since I posted them (and labeled them cock 1 and cock 2), and you pointed out only one was a df, which is what I missed, when I was sent these last night :)

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:17 pm

Don't let me confuse you any further, though. :D I completely missed the labels. :oops:

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:08 am

no worries :D

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:14 pm

Johan S wrote:
Johan S wrote:Shey, another thing to consider is that the ruby eye of the cinnamon tends to darken. I bet a few/lot? of breeders have been sitting with edged hens and thought they were cinnamon, and vice versa.
I don't particularly like quoting myself...

@Shey, consider again the point above, but I suppose we don't have to limit it to hens. Now have a look at this bird that was recently advertised on an Oz FB page as a cobalt cinnamon cock.

Image

Thoughts?
sheyd wrote:yes- I spotted him right away- he now belongs to my friend Nigel :mrgreen:

prob lies with Oz not being up to speed with the rest of the world- they simply don't know what they are- if it's lighter then it's Cinnamon no questions asked :roll:


I will ask if I can upload some wing shots-- he is beautiful!
Image

Image

Image

Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:17 am

Here is N's bird again

Image

Dark Blue sf SL Edged and Dark Blue Parblue

Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:54 pm

hmm not sure on that one Molly.. Yes, I'm interested in what this season brings :)

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:46 pm

sheyd wrote:hmm not sure on that one Molly.. Yes, I'm interested in what this season brings :)
That one might just stick... :D

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:13 am

Johan S wrote:
sheyd wrote:hmm not sure on that one Molly.. Yes, I'm interested in what this season brings :)
That one might just stick... :D
:lol: :)


.................
Been playing around with my new, but old camera- didn't realize it took great pics up till now lol always the way.. 8)

Here is an updated pic of the op hen who has completed her end of the year moult
Image


and one of her son
Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:00 am

InTheAir wrote:The nails are the only pretty bit at present, I'll try for some photos when she looks nice again.
time for an update! :D

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:55 pm

wing shot
Image
...............
molossus wrote:
lets see what the breeding results in.
I have paired her to this cock (poss split for Cinnamon) what do you think?


Image

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... 62627f.jpg

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:10 pm

closeup pic of unbleached tail of Cinn Edged hen

Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:09 pm

a nice cock bird

Image

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Kappa » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:26 am

Hi Shey,
He is a cracking bird. Yours?

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Re: SL Edged

Post by sheyd » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:07 pm

He is, and thanks! :D

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Kappa » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:23 pm

Hi Shey,

What are your plans for him? I think cobalt, violet or even violet cobalt hens would be good with him.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Johan S » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:57 am

Kappa, that's a good question. I'd go with something like a cobalt violet cleartail. The edging on this bird is well defined, so I reckon it would be wonderful to breed a bird like him, with a clear head and tail. It'll take some time, though.

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Re: SL Edged

Post by Kappa » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:41 pm

Cleartail or even CHF, with the turquoise, very nice.

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