Pick One - Cast your vote !

Moderator: Mods

- Pick one !

I pick the 1 on the left
13
36%
I pick the 1 on the right
23
64%
 
Total votes: 36

Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote:The name Aqua, as you believe the name should be atributed to the Indigo mutation.
This of course isn't a far fetched idea and a lot of confusion exist, esp. in other species. Take for example the monk parakeet (quaker). There, some describe it as even psittacin (like emerald), and some simply refer to it as less psittacin than turquoise (like indigo). And the gencalc creator feels it is an allele of blue.

http://www.gencalc.com/gen/eng_genc.php?sp=0ParQua
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Johan S wrote:
This of course isn't a far fetched idea ...
This season i paired a /ino X pallid indigo however hen being last year's she did not lay as yet.
I wanted to see for myself the phenotype of indigo Pallidino & indigo ino however this might have to wait another year
next season i'm also tempted to pair ino x emerald
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by sheyd »

Ring0Neck wrote:
Johan S wrote:
This of course isn't a far fetched idea ...
This season i paired a /ino X pallid indigo however hen being last year's she did not lay as yet.
I wanted to see for myself the phenotype of indigo Pallidino & indigo ino however this might have to wait another year
next season i'm also tempted to pair ino x emerald
This is one I'm also keen to see.
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by trabots »

What is wrong with just being a birdo.
IRN Vic, your website http://www.indianringneckvic.com/parblu ... ce2012.htm with your thoughts and ideas about Parblues in IRNs
is quite contrary to your being "just being a birdo". Having said that I approve wholeheartedly with your efforts to better understand this group of mutations. I must caution however that until you start using terminology that the rest of us "pseudo scientists" can quickly and easily correlate with, you will have real problems getting readership let alone convincing anyone. The mutation parrot world is full of names of mutations which do not come close to describing their phenotypes. You must try and get over it and get speaking the same language so that something can be learned from your efforts. I personally went through all of this in my indoctrination by Terry Martin over a decade ago. I am also known as a rebel for deviating from the International Naming System, most specifically by calling homozygous Parblues, df Parblues. My intent is the same as the INS however and that is less confusion over what is being talked about.
Indian Ringneck Vic
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic »

Trabots for the last time I will explain your error.You insist on the use of scientific definition as a substitute for the english language your even rude enough to suggest that I don't understand what I am trying to communicate. The language has evolved over thousands of years and takes precedence over the newly evolving genetic terminology.The latter is mean't for scientific literature which still requires the use of the language it's written in, to make sense.It is nonsense to suggest that any and all peripheral communication be written in scientific terminology for if this were to be the case the genetics committee will need to write a new language that only a select portion of the community can understand. I will not tolerate your interference with my use of the english language you are totally out of order you obviously are deficient in communication skills these are your problems that only you can address.You are NOT my peer I don't value nor welcome your so called learned advise. I am telling you now I am not willing to be subordinate to your whims and nonsense.I have been reading your posts for sometime now and would describe your demeanour dis-curtious and condescending toward fellow fanciers this is forum is a learning platform not for self righteous crusaders.
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by trabots »

this is forum is a learning platform not for self righteous crusaders.
.

You won't teach anybody anything if they don't know what you are talking about. The names we use and refer to were in the large coined by the budgerigar fraternity over the past century. Those mutations are the same in all parrots irrespective that they may appear differently in different species. The idea was to use names which apply to mutations across all species, while that certainly hasn't happened in all cases, it is at the very least essential that breeders of the same species use the same names if they are to communicate and learn effectively. The names aren't scientific as you suggest, scientific names are in Latin and even I don't use those. An Aqua is an Emerald in IRNs full stop. To use an already defined name (Aqua) for another mutation with an already defined name (Indigo), one which we all now understand, is what you call "whims and nonsense". Another forum participant, alerted me with sarcasm to your web page. I am not alone in wanting effective communication using accepted terminology, not trying to work out what mutation you are talking about. Talk about hi-jacking a thread for your own "self righteous crusade".
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Finally 5th broke feather and i took a pic with flash on my mob
the green phenotype parblues don't look like that its just the flash effect
Image
Image

Image
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Here's a pic of the daughter's pied parblue, the other 3 parblue siblings:
2 grey 1 in violet, pics later once they get more feathers.

pic taken with mob. camera so quality is average.
Image

full res. pic
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0081.jpg

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0080.jpg

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0079.jpg
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by madas »

Ring0Neck wrote:Here's a pic of the daughter's pied parblue, the other 3 parblue siblings:
2 grey 1 in violet, pics later once they get more feathers.

pic taken with mob. camera so quality is average.
Image

full res. pic
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0081.jpg

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0080.jpg

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0079.jpg
Nice hedgehog (in the high res pics). :D
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

This morning i was certain the pied is violet, then this arvo i was sure it was grey
what do you see? :mrgreen:

colors enhanced ( custom setting on camera) however unedited pic.
*remember to click on the pic to enlarge

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PA094909.JPG
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by trabots »

Ben, the image looks fiddled, the skin is red and it sure looks like a violet head and tail feather shafts etc. My apologies if not.
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Hi Willy,
My Olympus camera has a setting called Art; it enhances color as i mentioned in the post, not edited.
I was trying to show a pic similar to what me & the other half both saw in the morning.

What i was really thinking: are both colors visible?

Molossus :lol: pretty sure it is turquoise grey pied masking violet

Now take a look at this pic:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PA094905.JPG

zoomed in top wing shows dark grey feather
i will have another look at him tomorrow in sunlight :?


I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
zentoucan
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:45 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by zentoucan »

I pick the one on the far right (you can just see the beak) I like surprises
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by madas »

Ring0Neck wrote:colors enhanced ( custom setting on camera) however unedited pic.

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PA094909.JPG
Now we know how to photograph a "turq dom. pied" to look like a "saddleback". :wink: :roll: :lol:

btw: nice bird. congrats.
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Thanks Madas,

in same Art mode i got these 2 chicks
pretty good i reckon.

talk about picture perfect :wink:

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PA095081.JPG


PS: I said: pretty sure it is turquoise grey pied masking violet - i have to add it can be indigo or turq.

Last edited by Ring0Neck on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by trabots »

that is probably how this one was taken also. They are nice birds but not that nice, that's the pity.

[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Willy,
very likely.

Here's the pic IMO looks close to its real color. reference: the hand, leaves, grass & a flat light (no sun)
pic taken on auto no flash

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PA095056.JPG

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PA095033.JPG

*this pic is taken with my phone closeup and depicts the different colors between the siblings
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0059.jpg
i have plenty of pics of these chicks - it is the only clutch i'm hand feeding myself and i can take pics anytime.
i hand feed them since all males will be split pallid i won't be keeping many if any of them.

Updated pic - direct sunlight
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0117.jpg
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Updated pic of the daughter's pied parblue
there's a few nice black feathers coming through.

click on the pic once open to zoom in

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PICT0971.JPG

& the yellow hen's young (5th is in the nestbox so no pics but no pastel has come through as yet... :roll: )

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PICT1047.JPG

non violets:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PICT1020.JPG

violets (the lighter 1 is almost same color as the darker out of the sun, strange)
(the young violet in the bucket is unrelated)
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PICT1006.JPG

BTW: These pics were taken with a Minolta high end camera ( i borrowed it off my sister) :wink:
Color representation is IMO perfect and that's how they look under that particular lighting
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by trabots »

And this one of a Cobalt Violet

[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

????????
Willy are you saying that they don't look in real life as in the picture??
Come and see them. i uploaded unedited pics full resolution

Is that your way of cracking a joke? coz i don't see funny !
or perhaps you're trying to say that you don't know why these birds look like that!?
don't be shy to say it.
I have a good idea why & it's not the Parblue mutation the reason these birds look like so.

Cheers
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Paul,

You were right about a few things.
Including the constant color change in these birds.
IMO this phenomena is not coming from the Indigo, Aqua or Turq. as you suspected, however parblue helps us better see the mutation/modifier effect.
I think i found the reason why, just awaiting for all birds to fully feather.
I will put together a compelling case for it that would include over 12 birds to make a point.
* I also suspect that this modifier is perhaps more of a curse then a blessing for violet breeders and creates confusion, yet all we did thus far called them light colored violets or worse, cobalts.
Enough said for now.


Last edited by Ring0Neck on Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by sheyd »

I don't think he's doubting you Ben- he's doubting Maxine's picture- it looks fake to the max lol edited in photoshop, or special camera settings IMO.
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by trabots »

Not doubting you at all Ben as Sheyd has said, I was just showing another candy cane ringneck image which I came across, nothing to do with your posts in between. Sorry to have raised your hackles mate. I raised the question about this image long ago and Maxine advised that it was a Cobalt Violet. I have bred plenty and none look like candy like this does. We must be careful using camera settings or post camera fiddling which may enhance colours to the point they are surreal. I too use Photoshop and always question myself; is this image still within what the bird looks like in any real life lighting situation? Often a small change will enhance the difference between birds in the same image and if that is why the image is presented and they are still within reality then the message gets presented better.

compare this image
[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

with this unmodified one
[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

You can see that I removed some rough feathering from the Deep Blue and over all the first image is now cleaner and crisper IMO but still leaves the colours as they were.
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote:I think i found the reason why, just awaiting for all birds to fully feather.
I will put together a compelling case for it that would include over 12 birds to make a point.
* I also suspect that this modifier is perhaps more of a curse then a blessing for violet breeders and creates confusion, yet all we did thus far called them light colored violets or worse, cobalts.
Enough said for now.
I'm not very fond of you right now... I hate this kind of suspense, esp. considering the amount of effort I have invested with this particular topic. :x

Come now, spill the beans. :D
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Johan,

In short:
I am almost certain it is the Peter Russell "blue bird" modifier/mutation in play here (I will dig up the article for anyone who does not know what i'm referring to).
Article below:
http://parakeet.me/irn/redz/p544_545.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/redz/p546.jpg

Original breeder whose violet bloodline comes from P. Russell bred every year a few of exact looking hens as in the article.
Initially i thought that only hens are affected but i realised males that look like cobalts till adulthood although much darker then the hen bred from violets are also carrying it. as is the case for the male in this thread first picture (already darkened but i have older pics when i got him).


After my results and the original breeder's result this year it starting to all make sense.
Initially i thought they were deep blues or even light colored cobalts.

Thus far, it seems to be linked with the violet mutation, it does not affect the grey parblues i bred from her daughter (although only 2 parblue greys plus pied parblue grey were bred from daughter hen).

I did not want to say anything untill i had something ready to present in a logical manner to be understood for all of us, hence not naming the birds by their mutation.


I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by madas »

Ring0Neck wrote: Johan,

In short:
I am almost certain it is the Peter Russell "blue bird" modifier/mutation in play here (I will dig up the article for anyone who does not know what i'm referring to).
Article below:
http://parakeet.me/irn/redz/p544_545.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/redz/p546.jpg

Original breeder whose violet bloodline comes from P. Russell bred every year a few of exact looking hens as in the article.
Initially i thought that only hens are affected but i realised males that look like cobalts till adulthood although much darker then the hen bred from violets are also carrying it. as is the case for the male in this thread first picture (already darkened but i have older pics when i got him).


After my results and the original breeder's result this year it starting to all make sense.
Initially i thought they were deep blues or even light colored cobalts.

Thus far, it seems to be linked with the violet mutation, it does not affect the grey parblues i bred from her daughter (although only 2 parblue greys plus pied parblue grey were bred from daughter hen).

I did not want to say anything untill i had something ready to present in a logical manner to be understood for all of us, hence not naming the birds by their mutation.


Can you send me the article?

thx
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Madas,

Once open you can right click the pic and "save as" or save picture as.
Article below:
http://parakeet.me/irn/redz/p544_545.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/redz/p546.jpg


I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by trabots »

trabots wrote:Not doubting you at all Ben as Sheyd has said, I was just showing another candy cane ringneck image which I came across, nothing to do with your posts in between. Sorry to have raised your hackles mate. I raised the question about this image long ago and Maxine advised that it was a Cobalt Violet. I have bred plenty and none look like candy like this does. We must be careful using camera settings or post camera fiddling which may enhance colours to the point they are surreal. I too use Photoshop and always question myself; is this image still within what the bird looks like in any real life lighting situation? Often a small change will enhance the difference between birds in the same image and if that is why the image is presented and they are still within reality then the message gets presented better.

compare this image
[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

with this unmodified one
[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

You can see that I removed some rough feathering from the Deep Blue and over all the first image is now cleaner and crisper IMO but still leaves the colours as they were.
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Molossus,
Could well be.

Tiennie, If you're reading this thread. Re "Lavender" that looks like a Bronze Fallow and there's such birds in SA as well.
It is a hen and it comes from the same bloodline and breeder, and i'm fairly certain that this bird is:
"PR" ?Cinnamon? Turquoiseblue
(website of a local breeder i know)
http://traceyweller.wix.com/tracey-well ... /image1fi0

It'll make it so much easier if these birds are same as NT violet of SA.

Food 4 Thought: This modification seems to make up the violet wrong, ie: create the violet using 1/2 the dark gene or similar.. just thinkin

Willy, I just felt that repeting re: edited images was uncalled for since mine were untouched.



I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Johan S »

I have forgotten about this article after reading the copy some months back. At that stage I asked whether some follow up could be done, as 2004 is a long time ago. Is anybody in touch with Peter Russell?

Some things that stand out for me

1) Terry Martin mentions in the latter part that a cobalt is darker than a SF violet. I don't quite agree with this statement.

What could possibly cause a violet bird to produce a new dark blue bird, which then again produce a violet bird?

2) The blue hen producing the 4 eggs in 2002 could have been blue misty. Misty could most certainly slip through unnoticed, esp. the type that one only notices in a net or with chicks in the nest. It has been reported that a violet misty looks very cobalt like, and a violet misty would again produce the violet phenotype, the odd dark bird (violet misty) and blue and blue misty (which we'll have to assume goes through as the same thing for this idea to stand ground). Thus, there would exist only a very slight change in the blue birds, and speaking of experience, I often don't pay a lot of attention to plain blue offspring in the same aviary as rare mutations (like violets 10 years back).

3) As Molossus suggested, the NT mutation could also play a role, especially if the first bird was actually a combination between violet and the NT birds. I am not that convinced though, because that combination should probably be a much more purple looking bird than a SF violet. And, the breeding results of the new dark blue hen that again produced a normal SF violet doesn't add up here. Furthermore, if the first bird carried both violet and NT, then the blue offspring indicates non-allelic interaction. Granted, I haven't seen convincing evidence to this regard (yet).

4) As suggested earlier in the topic, perhaps a modifying gene isn't out of the question. :?:
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by madas »

Johan S wrote:I have forgotten about this article after reading the copy some months back. At that stage I asked whether some follow up could be done, as 2004 is a long time ago. Is anybody in touch with Peter Russell?

Some things that stand out for me

1) Terry Martin mentions in the latter part that a cobalt is darker than a SF violet. I don't quite agree with this statement.

What could possibly cause a violet bird to produce a new dark blue bird, which then again produce a violet bird?

2) The blue hen producing the 4 eggs in 2002 could have been blue misty. Misty could most certainly slip through unnoticed, esp. the type that one only notices in a net or with chicks in the nest. It has been reported that a violet misty looks very cobalt like, and a violet misty would again produce the violet phenotype, the odd dark bird (violet misty) and blue and blue misty (which we'll have to assume goes through as the same thing for this idea to stand ground). Thus, there would exist only a very slight change in the blue birds, and speaking of experience, I often don't pay a lot of attention to plain blue offspring in the same aviary as rare mutations (like violets 10 years back).

3) As Molossus suggested, the NT mutation could also play a role, especially if the first bird was actually a combination between violet and the NT birds. I am not that convinced though, because that combination should probably be a much more purple looking bird than a SF violet. And, the breeding results of the new dark blue hen that again produced a normal SF violet doesn't add up here. Furthermore, if the first bird carried both violet and NT, then the blue offspring indicates non-allelic interaction. Granted, I haven't seen convincing evidence to this regard (yet).

4) As suggested earlier in the topic, perhaps a modifying gene isn't out of the question. :?:
Yeah well said. The Facts in the article Sound very confused. :( But Misty could be an Explanation for this. Attached a pic of father violet(sf)blue with his offspring with a misty (or Khaki) turqblue:

Image

So the offspring Looks cobalt like.

madas
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Thank you both for your input.


Does the misty (young) have a very shiny overall appearance under sunlight? and a very dark appearance in the shade ?
this feature stands out without looking too hard.

I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote:Thank you both for your input.

Does the misty (young) have a very shiny overall appearance under sunlight? and a very dark appearance in the shade ?
this feature stands out without looking too hard.
Ben, it doesn't stand out nearly as much as one would imagine for a recognised mutation. It is actually a fairly hard mutation in SF to pick out in a flock of birds even when looking for it specifically. Of course, the moment it is pointed out to you, it quickly becomes much more apparent (as with most things in life). And some mistys are better marked (grey body and bright blue head) than others (silvery blue body with blue head, very close to normal blue). Considering how small the observable change is in a blue bird, the observable change in a violet blue is phenomenal (and very unexpected).

Take this blue misty hen as example in sun and shade. These two photos were the best examples from a whole bunch I took to try and illustrate misty features, and even then it isn't very apparent. Now tell me honestly that, when you are looking at your very first clutch of violets, that you'd not think this is just a blue. I would certainly have overlook them in 2004. :?:
Image
Image
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by madas »

Ring0Neck wrote:Thank you both for your input.


Does the misty (young) have a very shiny overall appearance under sunlight? and a very dark appearance in the shade ?
this feature stands out without looking too hard.

Can't tell you. I have never seen these birds in real life. Don't know if the breeder still have them.
But at the Weekend we have a bird Exhibition. perhaps he is on the road and i can ask him. :)

madas
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Johan S »

madas wrote:But at the Weekend we have a bird Exhibition. perhaps he is on the road and i can ask him. :)
Remember your camera! :D
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Wonder if the pied carries this PR modifier ?
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0130.jpg
(pic taken with my phone)

I hope it is Misty, I don't care what it is, all i want is to know what it is. :wink:

Madas, please do ask him, and we hope to see some nice pics from the Exibition :D
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by sheyd »

Ben- it's hard to follow this thread (on mob) could you pls present the chicks you're questioning?

Many thanks
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Shey,

It is an array of about 5 + mature birds, + 3 clutches of young.
I will put together an array of pics of these birds, meanwhile the 4 chicks from this thread & their parents, as well as the daughter of the yellow bird and it's 4 chicks including the pied above.


As Johan said; hard to pick from a blue, the breeder these birds come from just sold 2 of these chicks to a handraiser for pet market and she said: " These two birds, they are not cobalts but they are not blue either"
this is the sf PR mutation/modifier i'm following.

PS: Have a look at this picture, light is coming from the left.
can you see how the color changes according to diff lighting conditions?
it is almost an illusion almost in constant change
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0170.jpg
btw this is the darkest chick - see pic below: the 1 on the left 9o'clock in the bucket 12 is an sf violet for reference
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PICT1005.JPG
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by sheyd »

Ta Ben- I'll have a look tomorrow on the pc.
madas
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by madas »

Johan S wrote:
madas wrote:But at the Weekend we have a bird Exhibition. perhaps he is on the road and i can ask him. :)
Remember your camera! :D
Yeah hopefully i do. ;)
I hope to see some special birds which could fit to this topic. :D
A breeder is showing some "blue" birds which he is calling "royalblue".
And thats the reason why i will join this Exhibition. :)

madas
Johan S
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Johan S »

Royal Blue... In that case, remember your camera! :D

Where is the exhibition?
Recio
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:09 am
Location: France

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Recio »

Hi,

Royal Blue is a colour with a wavelength of 450 nm. It is a deep dark azure colour. It is close to the uv wavelength in the ligth spectrum and it si able to induce fluorescence like the uv.

Madas, do not forget your uv ligth ... and keep us enligthed :wink:

Regards

Recio

PS: it would be great to look at those birds with a royal blue ligth.
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »


Molossus, Johan, Madas & whoever else knows about Misty.

Question: Could this be sf? or df? Misty sf Violet blue?
The male in this thread i believe carries the PR mutation also, but harder to detect as the males are never as light blue colored as sf hens are.
I found a pic from last year taken at breeder's place of the male, along with other males of similar color, look how light they were back in Nov'12; they were 1 y olds back then
(5mb file ) http://parakeet.me/irn/f/IMG_1735.JPG
Pic below is before breeding season
Image


I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by trabots »

I know, I know, same old query from me, but if a renowned breeder has had a new Blue IRN since 2004, why has the DF version not been bred 9 years later?? Only the homozygous bird will give the knowledge.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by sheyd »

unfortunately the image is distorted of the one on your hand.
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by sheyd »

trabots wrote:I know, I know, same old query from me, but if a renowned breeder has had a new Blue IRN since 2004, why has the DF version not been bred 9 years later?? Only the homozygous bird will give the knowledge.
very valid point Willy.
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

sheyd wrote: very valid point Willy.
Sorry, but I don't think it is.
Deep had about the same amount of years without a DF or Green deep
SA Deep still working on a confirmed DF (hope it was bred this season)
I am not surprised why a breeder did not want to dedicate 10years to a lighter mutation, you can see in Edged, most breeder's don't know they have it, what is edged? (others might say a fallow) like saying a ringneck. No interest at the time.

This might be just a modifier but unlike others i don't want to close an eye and when asked what is this light violet bird or is it a blue or a cobalt? to say i don't know. just doesn't sound right. I do want to know, so not so valid for me. ;)

Shey you said distroted pic... hmm you mean: The young was moving its head while the pic was taken, Yes !

Here are some pics (taken with mobile) of the brighter violet in natural light, note the head's color is darker as he moves in the shade.

I would rather not discuss this here anymore.
I just want to do my research in peace.
* I have all but Opaline mutations known in Oz. I have stock from 18 different breeders I can sort this out on my own.
IF SA & Eu breeders want to give me opinions on misty, NT violet or other mutations i don't have, it is muchly appreciated.



http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0172.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0173.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0174.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0175.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0176.jpg
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by trabots »

very valid point Willy.


Sorry, but I don't think it is.
Ben, the article you posted has Terry's recommendation that it should be paired with another one. Whether a modifier gene or not, it will still have a locus which it calls home and that locus has room for two. There is therefore obvious logic once 2 birds are available to breed them together and learn from the homozygous form.

The pics show plenty of green in the wings making it even more interesting, is that the case in the flesh?
I would rather not discuss this here anymore.
I just want to do my research in peace.
* I have all but Opaline mutations known in Oz. I have stock from 18 different breeders I can sort this out on my own.
IF SA & Eu breeders want to give me opinions on misty, NT violet or other mutations i don't have, it is muchly appreciated.
I could say the same thing Ben, in fact we all could, but then what is the point of this forum? I have something in my 'patched emeralds' which I could have just keep secret. In any event good luck with your now secret project. Let us know when you have DF'd it, until then conclusions are inconclusive. Having said that with my usual diplomacy, I am sure you will be the first to unravel the mystery and I mean that sincerely.
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by Ring0Neck »

Willy,

I have no secrets, nor a desire to keep it a secret.
I just felt some previous comments were inapropriate & doubtful.
I'm in early stages of investigation so putting all the pieces together takes time.

Incidently, i received a copy of an article about Misty being identified in OZ by some breeders and also a new mutation of unique Misty characteristics being developed by a breeder here in QLD. A melanin altering mutation.
It could very well be the same thing i have(although i doubt as their heads are slightly lighter in color), i will try to get in touch with this breeder who spent 14 years working on this project.
At the time of writing breeder did not have parblue in this mutation or DF, only in basic colors green/blue series.


Ben, the article you posted has Terry's recommendation that it should be paired with another one.

Yes, i agree completely, however looking for DF is jumping the gun.
I'm trying to identify this mutation in males. i have seen no males as blue as the hens that are about 20% or more lighter then deep blue ( i keep thinking sl-edged when i say this)
The image i posted of 2 y old males that looked like cobalts (now much darker) could be the sf "PR" males, if so DF is most probably already here as this breeder had about 5-7 he kept back just in 2 y olds.

* Re green in feathers: these 4 chicks are parblue.

I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Pick One - Cast your vote !

Post by sheyd »

Ring0Neck wrote:
I just felt some previous comments were inapropriate & doubtful.


If this was in relation to my comment- then you're looking too far into it- the image is distorted on my pc (skewed) however displays fine on my phone. nothing more.

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/DSC_0170.jpg
Post Reply