Deep blue ! How Deep ?

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Ring0Neck
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Deep blue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Food for Thought - Idea is hypothetical !!!


What if Deep blue IS Saphire ?? or should we call it "Diamond" ?
in other words; a parblue mutation
Scale of parblues from greener to bluer:
emerald, turquoise, indigo, deep?

*That would explain the bizzare offspring that Willy is getting from Deep blue X Emerald
2 parblue mutations meet ; we invenitably will see increase in psittacine enough to be visible
**It would also explain some of the green patches visible on some of the Deep blue's feathers
*** It would explain why the green deep is normal green because it is in fact green/deep
**** ?Under UV is it fluorescent?, as all prablues do? but again no visible psittacine so it might not.
***** Df deep green photo is probably a parblue homo. or wildtype (photo clearly taken in poor light conditions and flash used closeup)
I have tried to adjust a pic of my df parblue to simulate the pic of the df deep green,
i had to take a pic late afternoon no sun, using paint.net
i used Auto-Level (lighting) and Hue/Sat: H=-34;S=107;L=-28. I've done this so we get an idea why the original pic looks like a misty, it was simply the way the pic was taken; perhaps on purpose.

Image

* if this was the case then we would need to rethink how parblue interacts with Blue A locus.
something like: homozygous deep + blue = df deepblue phenotype :?:
Could be that Deep is bending the parblue rules just as Emerald might do.

Even if it ticks all the boxes, it just means it fits the profile, does not automatically makes it so.

Further tests we can do, mixing deep with INO - we might get a deepino :shock: and also deep grey (underway)

I have these "parblue df" hens and through email i discussed with Molossus & Willy why are these birds so dark colored, have light feet n nails and fairly dark overall color.
It is interesting to note that both have thought about deep blue as being in the bird.
You see, deep has come up in a parblue discussion, sure it was mentioned simply because of the dark color in the flights n tail,
but it does ring a bell and these birds might just be deep(parblue) + 1 more parblue
Last conversation with Ron, he mentioned Saphire quiet often and he can see it, he can.. since he has the most deeps and indigo to experiment with.
it also makes more sense the grey-black bird he bred from a grey pied c X indigo blue? or indigo deep? hen

Why does young deepblue look so light colored (like an Indigo) and darkens as it gets older?
http://parakeet.me/irn/d/deeps3se.jpg

Why the deepblue pallid in certain light conditions when young, it looks 80% less bluer almost light grey
pics taken 26dec12
http://parakeet.me/irn/d/deepbluepallid26Dec12.JPG

the next 2 pics have been Auto-Leveled (lighting) in Paint.net, note the wings and tail
http://parakeet.me/irn/d/deeppallid1AL.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/d/deeppallidAL.jpg

pic taken recently
http://parakeet.me/irn/d/deeppld.jpg

Why don't we have deepblue in Cleartails yet? Don't know!! :lol: but i suspect it is completely washed away somehow and it is not visible or nobody has done it yet :roll:

Recio suspected it and he was probably right all along, deep grey will be a darker bird combined colors, deep x ino will be a deepino.
He's done most of the work he was just waiting for us to confirm certain breeding results to piece the puzzle together.

Indirectly most of us helped come to this conclusion.
Time will tell if it is correct.
I hope i am not digging in the wrong place, and if the above is not so, i don't mean to upset anyone but to work together and eliminate this possibility.

I reckon parblue is a big playground and has plenty more to offer.

Last edited by Ring0Neck on Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sherjil
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Sherjil »

Hi Ring0Neck ! just a basic question came to my mind ... why a deep phenotype looks more dark blue (towards cobalt) than normal blue ? is it due to increase in melanin, feather structure changes or as I deduced from this thread, due to presence of psittacine ?
Ring0Neck
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Hi Sherjil

due to presence of psittacine ?
perhaps. not necessarily the only reason but that's the way i looked at it, indigoblue's pehnotype ignoring the psittacine comes fairly close to a deepblue's.
in saying that others might not agree with me.

If this was to be true, Recio and other more technically minded people will figure this out later on.
Kappa
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Kappa »

Hi Ben,

Your hypothesis seems very plausible, however, how do we account for the df deep green knowing that turquoise is not visible in green series birds? Is it possible then to have green masking turquoise, and would it be possible to produce a df from such a pairing that is a visible difference?

Cheers,
Kappa.
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Hi Kappa.

If and only if above was true then we would have to use the turquoise model, although probably not to the letter.
based on this model your deep green bird is green/deep
if you pair 2 of those birds yes you can get df deep
the df deep green can be interpreted in a few ways like:
df deep green in the pic was a df parblue of some sort
or they can be dominant over wildtype
in this case you'd get df birds in green & blue like dark - (olive & mauve)
emeralds could fall into a similar model

Remember these are just ideas nothing proven.
a theory is just that.


Last edited by Ring0Neck on Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sherjil
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Sherjil »

molossus wrote:Sherjil hi,
still waiting for your visit. imo,the deep isn't closer to the dark in terms of the color spectrum. it is more closer to normal blue. I suspect that closer investigation of the feather of the deep (by the scientists - eg mutavi) would reveal its exact unique trait. unfortunately personality got in the way of progress and some scientist have yet to recognise this striking 'new' mutation. it is for this reason that we have yet to learn of its influence on grey etc. Ringo highlights this quite well.
for reference to the deeps likeness to any other blue , I recommend use of Willys photo of the blue , deep and cobalt as a guideline.

Kappa consider the df turq pic Willy submitted every so often . Remember how green the bird looks. only the tail gives it away as turq . Now imagine this in df deep. There should be little difference in phenotype of DF deep or DF deep turq.
Its exciting in giving consideration to outcomes of new mutation combinations. and predicting their phenotype. Aah, the joys of mutation breeding.
Hi Lee just sent you a pm :)
Johan S
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Johan S »

Some quick questions. 1) Has a df deep IndigoBlue (or turqblue for that matter) not been produced? 2) Has a sf deep IndigoBlue produced blue or deep parblue offspring when paired to a blue?

Any affirmative to the above would indicate that deep is not a blue locus/parblue mutation. I enjoy brainstorming as much as the next guy; OK probably more :D but I'd be surprised if none of the above two questions have been proven by a breeder in Oz.
trabots
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

I sent Inte both SF Deep Blue and DF Deep Blue feathers. His 'study' indicated he found no difference to a Cobalt feather. He didn't mention the DF feathers. The 'report' was grade school in my opinion. He refused to answer any query about the DF feather as to what he saw or even if he looked at it. Terry Martin shed some light that Inte cannot see structural colour under the electron microscope so indicating that Deep was indeed structural and as such would appear the same as a Dark Blue as far as melanin etc. The fact that the DF Deep Blue feather was a new colour unseen before in the existing Grey, Violet or Dark mutations seemed to escape him.

I did get mightily angry at both at Inte, and Terry for not pressing him on it for more information. Unfortunately that is where we stand from the 'scientists' with Terry on to new pursuits and Inte apparently uninterested in a new mutation in IRNs and probably parrots generally. What also made me angry was the total lack of interest by others on Terry's forum to find out more. Where would we be if I hadn't been so 'arrogant' and demanding of answers about Deeps and Parblues?
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

DF Deep TurquoiseBlues either side of a DF Deep Blue proving that Deep cannot be a Blue locus Parblue

[imgImage][/img]
Ring0Neck
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

DF Deep TurquoiseBlues either side of a DF Deep Blue proving that Deep cannot be a Blue locus Parblue
Yes Willy correct ! according to textbook model we know.
However, this eliminated one very important thing.
Change
Universe is in constant change, nothing is stagnant.
So we should always ask: Has anything changed from our known model?
only then, we'll be truly exploring all the possibilities in a new mutation.

If Deep is from parblue family then we can already accept that changes are present, simply by it's phenotype to start with.
Emerald is a good example of change.

Take INO for example
If we had SL Ino and NSL Ino came along
without "has anything changed?" we would never accept the new mutated INO


prodigy
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by prodigy »

According to the evidence at hand it should look like a green bird ?

Image

what is also interesting is that the DF Deep Blue is showing up as violet in these lighting conditions
Ring0Neck
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

According to the evidence at hand it should look like a green bird ?


Peter,
According to evidence (evidence is not conclusive) on hand it looks like a green bird.

Lack of evidence is to me evidence which points to parblue, surely breeders would have been keen to have green deep in pieds, Ct etc etc. however they might have tried and all they had was some green birds, not understanding what is going on they probably quit the idea because they could not figure it out what is going on, or thought the green deep phenotype is too close to wildtype to be indentified easily.
Johan S
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Johan S »

trabots wrote:DF Deep TurquoiseBlues either side of a DF Deep Blue proving that Deep cannot be a Blue locus Parblue
Thanks for these, Willy. I agree with you on this.

Ben, we should also keep in mind that Inte did perform the study on the SF deep compared to the SF dark. Although most is probably not satisfied with the feedback, being rather short, Inte did confirm that there isn't a substantial difference between deep and dark. This, to me, indicates that he was looking for key pointers to find a difference between these two mutations specifically. This being the width of the spongy zone which is the key identifier for the dark mutation. So my conclusion (again, feedback was vague enough that anyone can draw their own conclusion) from the report is that the deep mutation also altered this width, which could very well cause what we are seeing in the phenotype. Of course, one would then wonder what the relationship is with grey, dark and violet. We already have answers ito violet courtesy of Willy. Since the study showed it to be very similar to dark, I'm very curious about what the coming breeding season will reveal from the cobalt deep combo that Willy mentioned (owned by someone else, was it Rod?).
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Johan,

Yes, i am fully aware of evidence that proves otherwise. Theories are good until proven wrong. they could last centuries before we improve or change.

Remember Mr Ford. Wanted the V8 engine built, his employees said it's impossible, he sacked all of them and brought in new fresh minds without the limitations of the previous and? there you have it v8.
(hence my reason not to always trust the rules)

I question everything and no harm if all turns out empty but i want to be convinced before i move on.


Another point.
Could we associate Emerald with Deep? are these two mutation alike in any way?
one thing is for sure; both are not completely understood.
Here in OZ both mutations surfaced roughly around the same time (give or take a few years?) and from the same breeder. J S
Coincidence?
------------------
I remember one of the first breeders to have blue/turquoise green c conures here in OZ, he also produced another mutation from these birds
Jade g c conures. funny enough they look rusty green same as our df deep green bird looks like in that pic.
madas
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by madas »

Ring0Neck wrote: Here in OZ both mutations surfaced roughly around the same time (give or take a few years?) and from the same breeder. J S
And their origin is no secret at all. :D
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote:I question everything and no harm if all turns out empty but i want to be convinced before i move on.
You seem to forget that I love an out of the box hypothesis more than the next guy. You are preaching to the converted! :lol: I also question everything and agree there is no harm in that. However, in this specific case, Willy has uploaded a picture of birds that clearly show that they carry a combination of blue/parblue and also homozygous deep. There can only be two mutant genes at one locus. Whether it is a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder, the very basic principles of the internal combustion engine remained in tack. So does the basic principles of genetics. I might be missing part of the point you are trying to make, but it seems as if you are suggesting that we abandon the internal combustion engine and move over to an electric drive train (now THERE was some real invention and a significant paradigm shift). :?:
Ring0Neck
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Madas, correct! we all know the origin of emerald, i was not saying it is OZ.

Johan :lol: all i said is to question everything even if at first a basic rule points to a dead end, explore beyond that rule and if nothing comes out, revert back to rules we already know.
just like sl dom. edged. one would think it's either one of the 2. Few would consider being both. Bravo to whoever figured it out.

--------
Let's slow things down a tad. :lol:
Let's start with getting the deep grey first, perhaps the deep green sf, df would also be nice.
we all agree on this thus far?


Johan S
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Johan S »

Ring0Neck wrote:Let's start with getting the deep grey first, perhaps the deep green sf, df would also be nice.
we all agree on this thus far?
Yes, those are important tests. The other result to add to the above is a pairing consisting of sf dark sf deep x blue. One could actually use a green / blue or green instead of the blue as well if one is inclined to move towards green series birds.
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

All i can help with the way my pairs are setup is the grey deep, if all goes well.
as i have the emerald grey X deep
the other deeps are young or paired to something else.
let's hope Kappa can get some deeps out of his green series bird/birds if he gets the hen as well.
Willy & Ron can probably help. Surely Ron would already have had a pairing like that in the past. sf dark sf deep x blue.
If Willy could ask him to look up the offspring of such pair, might save some time.
trabots
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

Ron has paired a Deep Cobalt to a Blue for this season to prove/disprove an allelic relationship.

I have previously brought up the possible Emerald and Deep connection only for it to be dismissed. I am pleased that it is now a consideration.

This image in my vision certainly shows some 'greenness' to a Deep Blue compared to a Cobalt
Image
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

I have previously brought up the possible Emerald and Deep connection only for it to be dismissed. I am pleased that it is now a consideration.

Willy
We are all guilty of reading the posts too fast at times, missing out on imp. details, i know i am.
I can also understand the breeders that do not have the birds in the flesh to appreciate the small detail we are trying to point out.


Your patched emeralds , i'm curious if it will appear in my pair being deep x emerald (grey)
if not, it must be something else about your pair like green emerald and blue emerald series offspring birds? + more...
my bird being emerald grey we know for sure it is a blue series emerald.

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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by madas »

Ring0Neck wrote:
I have previously brought up the possible Emerald and Deep connection only for it to be dismissed. I am pleased that it is now a consideration.

Willy
We are all guilty of reading the posts too fast at times, missing out on imp. details, i know i am.
I can also understand the breeders that do not have the birds in the flesh to appreciate the small detail we are trying to point out.


Your patched emeralds , i'm curious if it will appear in my pair being deep x emerald (grey)
if not, it must be something else about your pair like green emerald and blue emerald series offspring birds? + more...
my bird being emerald grey we know for sure it is a blue series emerald.

This weekend i have seen some pics of Deons Emeralds which he got from Chris Whipps and they showed some kind of patchiness too.
Birds were sitting in full sun light. But i think you can see it too in the pics taken under studio light and posted on his website.

madas
sheyd
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by sheyd »

Emerald is considered by many to be uniform in colour- however the numbers of birds aren't there to truely determine this. It makes perfect sense to me, that some would display some (my words) "leakyness" especially if it is indeed a Parblue.
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

Just remember my 'patched Emeralds' do not flouresce. They certainly don't look like Emeralds anymore.
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by sheyd »

Emerald Indian Ringnecks (AQUA) < Prev Next >
Posted By:
Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:36 am |
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Attention Deon Smith, I have bought a Emerald Indian Ringneck cock, I put him to a violetblue Hen i Bred 3 blue looking birds & 1 Violetblue these birds are not blue but are not Emerald, In your book Genetics made easy you talk about a bird called Azure can you tell me more about the genetic make up of this bird, later that season I put my Emerald cock to a Blue hen they bred me 2 Emeralds & 2 Blues i beleive that Emerald is not Co-dominant & is actually ressive...

Sjack
Re: [Genetics-Psittacine] Emerald Indian Ringnecks (AQUA) < Prev Next >
Posted By:
Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:02 pm |
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Jack

Emerald and Azure were names insisted on by the late George Smith and his associate Babu Chauhan, to describe different incomplete allele of the blue locus. Babu had a picture of the so-called Azure on his web site, but I have no more knowledge of it.

Being an allele of the blue locus it is most certainly a recessive mutation, but an incomplete allele will always act dominantly over the complete allele, in this case Blue. When different allele of the same locus exist, the type closer to the normal wild colour will act dominantly over an allele closer to the complete mutation.

Deon
Willy do you have any recent pictures of your patched Emeralds, and when you say they don't florescence- do you mean like Emeralds (I have limited knowledge of this new line of work)? Are they comparable to anything already known?
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

These are them as of a couple of weeks ago. The patches flouresce but like a Turquoise no overall flourescence like an Emerald. The colour of the patches seem darker than those of a TurquoiseBlue. Certainly something that I can't explain yet. They are a cock and hen so I will breed them together next year unless somebody has a better pairing for learning.


Image

Image
Recio
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Recio »

Hi Willy,

Some questions:

I guess that the male is the greener bird ... is it rigth? Psittacin expression seems to be sex dependent and males show higher amounts.

Is the rump colour under normal lighting like in your other Emeralds? (here I join Lee question)

Is the chest and belly psittacin fluorescent? Usually psittacin in these areas is not fluorescent and appears as an uniform colour under normal lighting, but in these birds the colour is distributed in patches ... so we could guess whether it is the non fluorescent psittacine or the patched fluorescent one which would be expressed in a different area. In this case we would be facing a new mutation acting on the body distribution of the different psittacins. Something else: in accepted parblues like turquoise and indigo the highest psittacin concentration appears on the wings patches ... but this is not the case of your birds, further supporting the hypothesis of a different (parblue?) mutation. Even the distribution of psittacins in the head is not following the usual gradient we can see in parblues (highest concentration between the bill and the eye-forehead and lower levels goings behind and backwards the head)

Is the saddle psittacin the most fluorescent one? If so I would consider the possibility of this mutation being the same that the parblue (?) "added" to build up a Saddleback (remember the DF Saddleback of Chriss).

Are the rump feathers fluorescent? If so ... is this fluorescence of the same type than on the saddle? In the pics the colour seem quite uniform and similar to normal Emerald (as pointed by Lee). If these feathers show a different fluorescence quality than those of the saddle, and that this fluorescence is similar to normal Emeralds, it would point to the Emerald mutation being present in those birds but partially masked by the patched psittacin in other areas than the rump. It would also point to Emerald as a non parblue mutation (we can not get three alleles, blue,parblue and emerald, at the same locus).

The nails seem to be different between these siblings with the greener bird (more psittacin) showing darker nails (more melanin). Similar for the bills. Do you know of any other mutation acting on nails and bill melanin in the genetic make up of the parents? ... could you detect something similar in the other siblings of those birds?

Regards

Recio
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

Great questions Recio however I have to put them on hold until I next have them in the hand. I am away for 3 months. In the meantime don't forget this 22mo hen which is their older sister.

Image
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

Image

This is one of them at fledging on the right. They looked like Emeralds except for the light patching. The 'emerald ' colour is being now replaced with the 'pastel'.
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »



Could we comfortably say that the 2 birds in the bucket are of the same mutation?
IMO these birds are practically identical

** No tricks here. small bird a proven Deep blue & larger bird i suspected as either deep or PR modifier.

pics are in diff lighting conditions and flash was on auto, taken mobile ph camera, unedited
Remember:Once you open the pic, click on it again on the spot you want to enlarge

everyone welcome to comment -

http://parakeet.me/irn/m/DSC_0179.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/DSC_0168.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/DSC_0169.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/DSC_0165.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/DSC_0170.jpg

and some more closeup as well as paint.net sys
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/DSC_0168xAL.jpg
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/DSC_0168xALred.jpg
I'm an Explorer
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Ring0Neck
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

molossus wrote:Ben the likeness is there.. imo its a little early to make comparison for conclusion.
Hi Molossus,

Yee, for that i need patience ... Got any ? :lol:

I waited a year to do a same age close up comparisson

No surprise if it is deep blue as the breeder who has them got birds that come from Martin Gatt he has deeps, we were not sure if the bird from Martin was a deep blue, dark deep blue or just eu dark blue. The price paid for original bird was on the high side which again points to deep blue at least.

I just want every bird i have to be 100% certain of what it is, till then i call it unproven if phenotype is not what's expected or the source is not certain of bird's genetical makeup.

PS:
I think best compare birds before they have been exposed to sun.
IMO bird's color varies about 15%+- just for being exposed to sun more or less then the other of identical genotype

Now that i think about it i'm rather dissapointed it's not PR as i was getting excited about this modifier.
I have 4 mature sf of these birds and i will pair up to get df & green series next season.


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trabots
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

we were not sure if the bird from Martin was a deep blue, dark deep blue or just eu dark blue
I talked to Martin recently, he had never bred a Deep Dark Blue. You have Deep Blue (Oz Cobalt) if that was what he said it was.
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Willy,

Good to know, i was hoping no dark deep combo as it would have made IDing a pain.
Mark was the person that got the bird back in 09, he sold all his birds in 10 or 11

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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

From Ron, world first Deep Blue CHCT.

Image
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by madas »

trabots wrote: world first
But only if SA and Europe haven't the same Mutation. Which isn't proved. :D
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

Yes I know, just trying to excite :!: So many people claim world firsts without knowing what the rest of the world is up to. Again, the CHCT sure darkens the colours that are left. Ron confirmed this. There is theory that CHCT is another Fallow however this darkening goes against the normal Fallow action.
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by madas »

trabots wrote:Yes I know, just trying to excite :!: So many people claim world firsts without knowing what the rest of the world is up to. Again, the CHCT sure darkens the colours that are left. Ron confirmed this. There is theory that CHCT is another Fallow however this darkening goes against the normal Fallow action.
Yeap. Well said. Nevertheless, congratulations to Ron for this breeding result. Hope he can provide new high quality pics soon. ;)

Cheers.
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by madas »

@Willy: Is there a chance that you or Ron could build up a "nest" of youngsters or setup a aviary with all possible blue types available and take some pics?

Means a Setup of blue, deep blue, dark blue, violet blue, deep(df) blue, dark(df)blue, violett(df)blue, deep dark blue, deep violet blue, dark violet blue and so on.

greetings.
Johan S
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Johan S »

trabots wrote:Yes I know, just trying to excite :!: So many people claim world firsts without knowing what the rest of the world is up to. Again, the CHCT sure darkens the colours that are left. Ron confirmed this. There is theory that CHCT is another Fallow however this darkening goes against the normal Fallow action.
Well, I'm excited! It's a stunning bird. :D

The darkening effect is much like we see in adm pied in the areas where colour is left. I prefer not to think of it as darkening, but rather the redistribution of the pigment. But yes, not consistent with the fallow definition.
Ring0Neck
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Great idea Madas !
It'd be great if one of you can do it, we know it's a big job but it'll be much appreciated.

Meanwhile i have a Puzzle for anyone bored, give it a go try n guess these birds gen. makeup
or just tell us how many diff. phenotypes do you see?

http://parakeet.me/irn/m/5.jpg

or tackle the 3 youngsters
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/3.jpg


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madas
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by madas »

Ring0Neck wrote:Great idea Madas !
It'd be great if one of you can do it, we know it's a big job but it'll be much appreciated.

Meanwhile i have a Puzzle for anyone bored, give it a go try n guess these birds gen. makeup
or just tell us how many diff. phenotypes do you see?

http://parakeet.me/irn/m/5.jpg

or tackle the 3 youngsters
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/3.jpg


Äh, i guess the filename is a hint. :D
So 5 and 3. :P
Ring0Neck
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

:?

How about this 1?
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/6.jpg
:D

Do you think LtoR 2nd & 4th is the same mutation and factors? sf....
Perhaps we're looking at simply age difference expresivity 2 y old & 3 y old respectively...


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trabots
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

This is dark :D

DF Deep Violet TurquoiseBlue, DF Deep TurqoiseBlue, Deep Blue

Image
Ring0Neck
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Willy,

That's a great picture we can clearly see the true colors esp. in the tail under sunlight.

Can you upload with Dark combo as well? or any new pics you have esp the dark deep violet

Cheers
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Willy,


Would you agree that if you throw an sf deep blue mature in there with the young, it would look much darker then the young sf deep blue?

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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

Ben, I think all these birds darken to maturity. But yes to your question.
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Re: Deepblue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

To show you how difficult it is to identify sometimes, I placed a for sure Deep Blue and Deep TurquoiseBlue in with the previous bunch. There is another DF Deep Violet Blue on the left. The bird in the other image previously labelled Deep Blue is in fact a DF, it is the one on the perch.

Image
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Re: Deep blue ! How Deep ?

Post by Ring0Neck »

Thanks Willy,
The addition of Dark is where the situation becomes even harder.
Any chance you can throw in deep dark blue and or just a cobalt?
An updated pic of deep dark violet would also be appreciated.

I like these pics as I personally can understand and relate to, Ron's pics are too dark to be able to compare at least with the way i take/see pics.


If you have more shots from the previous take where the sf deep turquoiseblue is more visible?
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Re: Deep blue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

It may be awhile before that happens Ben, I am keeping my Cobalts separate for now. In fact as I am convinced that Cobalt is a dead end I am going to get rid of most of them. Cobalt starts destroying the structure as does a Mauve when more than 2 structural mutations are present (not counting Blue). Johan has DF Violet Cobalts and can confirm this. The bucket image of the 4 Dark phenotypes also shows an almost grey looking bird in the Deep Dark Violet Blue. That image has a valid comparison of Deep Cobalt and Violet Cobalt.

Image
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Re: Deep blue ! How Deep ?

Post by trabots »

Dark Deep, Dark Violet, Dark, Dark Deep Violet Blues

Image
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