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DF Turquoise

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Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

DF Turquoise

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue May 21, 2013 10:06 am

Hi can you guys share pics of Double Factor Blue Turquoise birds in both hens and cocks, I have a friend who paired a blue turquoise cock to a blue turquoise hen and they bred 1 blue turquoise and 3 birds that look like greens, so I suspect they could be DF turquoise but I'm not sure, I would like to buy a male baby from him that's 2 years old this season and is starting to get his neck ring and want to pair it to either a grey lacewing hen or a blue hen for this season to see what babies come out

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: DF Turquoise

Post by sheyd » Tue May 21, 2013 4:59 pm

Willy's library

http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/Trabo ... t=4&page=1

http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/Trabo ... sort=4&o=1

could you post pictures of the chicks?

If the DF Turquoise (Blue) cock is split for Pallid-then I'd go with Pallid, but I would choose a Blue over a Grey one- solely because the colours are prettier when combined with Turquoise.

If not then I'd choose the Blue hen.

But- if you like "khaki" colours then choose the Grey Pallid- you'll also get Turquoiseblues if the Grey isn't DF

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Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: DF Turquoise

Post by Lushen1600 » Tue May 21, 2013 8:20 pm

Hi Sheyd, if I had to compare the bird I looked at to Willy's library I would say that it had more green than the bird in pic 6, it basically looks like a normal green bird, and I couldn't understand why 2 blue turq parents can produce this green baby, the only blue that this bird has is on the tail feathers like a normal green would have and also on the outer edges of the primary flights I also noticed blue.

I would say by looking at the bird that there is no difference between it and my mature green male that I have, except this bird has not fully moulted and only has vague signs of a neckring that can show that it is a male, with a slight black line on the front half of its neck ring and a slight reddish line at the back half of its neck ring, it would be interesting to see what it looks like after the next moult which will be in the beginning of next year.

I will try and visit him again and take some pics of the bird in question and try to get some pics of the top, underneath, upper pic and lower pics of flights and also pics of the side, but the camera on my phone is only 5mp, so they won't be the best

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Ring0Neck
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: DF Turquoise

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue May 21, 2013 9:21 pm

My 2 hens Df turquoise 2 year olds
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/dfturquoise.jpg

Yes the greener birds would be Dfs, it is just odd that he got 3 out of 4 birds df, should have been the other way around.
If he never gets a plain blue out of the pair, he might have a df turquoise parent.

trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: DF Turquoise

Post by trabots » Wed May 22, 2013 12:44 am

Once you are into Photobucket search for 'Trabots images' there are over 60 images in there. I am eager to see if they are in fact accessible by all. I left the other 6 where they are for now so the links aren't destroyed.
it is just odd that he got 3 out of 4 birds df, should have been the other way around.
Not odd, just not the normal expectation. This past year I bred a clutch of 5 Blue birds out of 2 /Blue birds. I also bred in one clutch of 5, 3 Violet Mauves from a Cobalt Violet x Cobalt pair. The odds on the first happening are 0.098% and the second 0.195%. I wish they were lottery tickets!

Many people report pairs that continually breed specific mutants well in excess of what genetic theory predicts. There were many on Terry's forum who wouldn't accept 'genetics' for this reason. What if there were rarely occurring 'rogue' genes associated with mutations and which preferentially skew the results in favour or against. I have read that some people have Cobalt pairs which never produce a Mauve, the opposite of my experience. Over a thousand pairs I am quite sure the theory gets proven, however what causes the exceptions like I have mentioned? There must be more than just luck of the draw for some pairs.

Johan S
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: DF Turquoise

Post by Johan S » Wed May 22, 2013 2:06 am

Willy, and thus the field of statistics were born; to make sense out of seemingly random events. :D

You are right in that certain mutations don't behave as expected. And in such cases, on closer investigation, we could possibly conclude that the mutation may reside in the the same chromosome and that a crossing over is required (like blue and dark), which could substantially decrease the expectation from 50% to something much smaller like 2%, 15%, etc. So we, the breeders need to take note of our breeding/offspring numbers. This is what I'm currently trying to do with the combination for grey and bronze fallow, as I've never seen a grey bronze fallow, and neither has anyone I've spoken to, even thought many pairs are set up to produce this combination.

Ah, the joys of mutation breeding! :D

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sheyd
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Re: DF Turquoise

Post by sheyd » Wed May 22, 2013 8:15 pm

Willy- yes, appears everyone can access it:
http://photobucket.com/images/Trabots%20images?page=1

Lushen, is it possible that your friend has his 'turquoise' confused with a Wildtype Green? I know a few people who think they have a Turquoise when in fact their bird is either reg Blue or WT Green.

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Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: DF Turquoise

Post by Lushen1600 » Wed May 22, 2013 9:09 pm

Hi all thanks for all the replies, will try and get some pics of the youngsters and the father next week, as will be busy at the Royal Show Grounds from today, he sold the mother but will try and track it down for a pic, as I know who he sold it to.

Hi Sheyd, I don't think he would confuse the mutation of the parents as he been breeding ringnecks for a while and that's why I was shocked when he show me the youngsters that came out from that pairing 2 years ago, will try and get more information on the pair when I meet him tonight at the Royal Show Ground

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

Recio
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:09 am
Location: France

Re: DF Turquoise

Post by Recio » Wed May 22, 2013 11:42 pm

Lushen1600 wrote:Hi Sheyd, if I had to compare the bird I looked at to Willy's library I would say that it had more green than the bird in pic 6, it basically looks like a normal green bird, and I couldn't understand why 2 blue turq parents can produce this green baby, the only blue that this bird has is on the tail feathers like a normal green would have and also on the outer edges of the primary flights I also noticed blue.

I would say by looking at the bird that there is no difference between it and my mature green male that I have, except this bird has not fully moulted and only has vague signs of a neckring that can show that it is a male, with a slight black line on the front half of its neck ring and a slight reddish line at the back half of its neck ring, it would be interesting to see what it looks like after the next moult which will be in the beginning of next year.

I will try and visit him again and take some pics of the bird in question and try to get some pics of the top, underneath, upper pic and lower pics of flights and also pics of the side, but the camera on my phone is only 5mp, so they won't be the best

Thanks
Lushen
Hi Lushen,

Your friend's DF Turquoise birds looking almost like a green bird, with far more psittacin let than Willy's DF Turquoise, confirm that there are different alleles in the parblue familly matching the "Turquoise morphotype" (heterozygous and homozygous males showing the red ring). This phenotype is what was called "heavy turquoise" and its creamino counterpart phenotype is like a lutino looking bird but with white primary flying feathers.

The homogenity in the phenotype of the 3 homozygous turquoise birds also points to the stability of the parblue allele. The existence of multiple parblue alleles rather than different expression of some few alleles is likely to explain the variability in phenotype parblue expression.

Pics showing the BlueTurquoise father together with the DF Turquoise offspring will be highly appreciated.

Regards

Recio

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sheyd
Posts: 1293
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Re: DF Turquoise

Post by sheyd » Wed May 22, 2013 11:43 pm

Lushen1600 wrote: Hi Sheyd, I don't think he would confuse the mutation of the parents as he been breeding ringnecks for a while and that's why I was shocked when he show me the youngsters that came out from that pairing 2 years ago, will try and get more information on the pair when I meet him tonight at the Royal Show Ground

Thanks
Lushen
Hi Lushen. two of the people who have been confused between the 3, have been breeders.- am looking forward to seeing pics.

Anyhow,
If TurquoiseBlue, then they had a 1 in 4 chance of getting a Blue, 2 in 4 of getting TurquoiseBlues and 1 in 4 of getting a DF Turquoise

...T B
X.........
T .T...TB.
B .TB..B..

but with anything- it's just the odds- next season they might get 3 Blues or all TurquoiseBlues. Over time- these statistical odds should all even out.

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Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: DF Turquoise

Post by Lushen1600 » Thu May 23, 2013 1:17 am

Hi Recio, will speak to him tonight and try to get more information on what this pair produced in the 2012 season, as the youngsters in question are from the 2011 season, so it will give an idea as to what is happening.

Unfortunately due to me putting birds on show at the Royal Show Ground, I will be occupied this whole weekend at the show, and will only be able to see him during the course of next week to take pics of the father and youngsters, and hopefully track down the mother

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: DF Turquoise

Post by Lushen1600 » Sun May 26, 2013 12:24 pm

Hi all, I had a chance to speak to the breeder about his pairing and his babies over this weekend, he said that he bought the male as a DF turq blue and the female as a SF turq blue.

He paired them together in 2011 and they had 2 clutches, first clutch produce 3 of the green looking babies and second clutch was the one that produces 3 of the green looking babies as well as 1 blue turq baby. He sold the hen after the 2011 breeding season and put the cock into a colony flight, so he didn't use him for breeding again for the 2012 season.

I will visit his place again by the end of this week to try and get some pics of the male and the 2011 youngsters that he has left

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue

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Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: DF Turquoise

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun May 26, 2013 8:20 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:
Yes the greener birds would be Dfs, it is just odd that he got 3 out of 4 birds df, should have been the other way around.
If he never gets a plain blue out of the pair, he might have a df turquoise parent.



His breeding results make sense now.

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