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pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

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sheyd
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pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:38 pm

I've seen the comparison between Deep and Dark Blues- was wondering what the differences between the Greens would be..?

Cheers

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prodigy
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:37 am

Lets see who can guess these ?

A
Image

B
Image

C and D (both birds on the stick)
Image
Last edited by prodigy on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sheyd
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:38 pm

revising..
Last edited by sheyd on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prodigy
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:08 pm

Sorry I messed the labels up, but none right please try again Chocabo. Also no grey green in any of the birds ;-)

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sheyd
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:29 pm

Any chance of getting more pics like the first- it gives a better 'feel' for the colour...but anyway my guesses are:

Violet Green?
Olive (DD Green) maybe also Violet?
Dark Green?
Dark Violet Green?


Answers? :twisted:

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prodigy
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:35 am

ok hint time :D

All 3 birds are out of the same nest

Parents are as follows:

1,0 violet ????????? green /blue x 0,1 violet(DF) deep dark blue

I have left out the question marks to make it more fun :twisted:

P.S.Very close on the second guess

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:25 am

prodigy wrote:ok hint time :D

All 3 birds are out of the same nest

Parents are as follows:

1,0 violet ????????? green /blue x 0,1 violet(DF) deep dark blue

I have left out the question marks to make it more fun :twisted:

P.S.Very close on the second guess
You are kidding, right? :shock: When did you import deep??? And had time to breed that to a violet(DF).

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:37 am

SA Deep !!!!

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:34 am

prodigy wrote:SA Deep !!!!
Do you have pics of the DF of this mutation in green or blue (and no, not the CHF bird)?

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:27 am

As a matter of fact yes we do, see both attached DF (remember we all have secret projects)

Image

Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:47 am

Hi Molossus,

I know thanks, the comparisons were done at my house :wink:

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:07 am

prodigy wrote:As a matter of fact yes we do, see both attached DF (remember we all have secret projects)
These ones looks just like the pictures of the SF birds I took at your place. And to be honest, considering how close they are to the dark factor, I can not imagine that the DF of this mutation would look like that. Can you please put these DF birds next to the SF ones in the same picture. And if not to forward, can I ask for a better quality pic than the first ones you uploaded? It would clearly illustrate the difference.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:37 am

Johan
I agree with your statement. There isn’t any difference between Peter’s pics and the birds we own as sf SA “Deep”, but we might be missing trick and only recognize df birds and sf are mistaken as normal birds. I have some split fallow birds from Nico Theunissen’s collection that clearly display a darker shiny phenotype.

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:06 pm

Lee

Thanks we will communicate and decide on the way forward after consultation with my friends Recio, Stefan and Deon. I think the fact that the original imported European "Deep" green hen is in our possession will be helpful. Every breeder wants to make money but for me it is more important to sort out the mutation first and place it in the correct category.

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:47 pm

Does anyone know if the SA deep from Nico Theunissen’s collection was imported into Aus?

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:14 pm

Hi Tienie,
Johan S wrote:
  Post subject:  Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?  
Johan
I agree with your statement. There isn’t any difference between Peter’s pics and the birds we own as sf SA “Deep”, but we might be missing trick and only recognize df birds and sf are mistaken as normal birds. I have some split fallow birds from Nico Theunissen’s collection that clearly display a darker shiny phenotype.

Tienie
You are quite correct in your statement "but we might be missing trick and only recognize df birds and sf are mistaken as normal birds".

I will email you examples and how we are able to distinguish the differences.

Peter

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:22 pm

prodigy wrote:Hi Tienie,
Johan S wrote:
  Post subject:  Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?  
Johan
I agree with your statement. There isn’t any difference between Peter’s pics and the birds we own as sf SA “Deep”, but we might be missing trick and only recognize df birds and sf are mistaken as normal birds. I have some split fallow birds from Nico Theunissen’s collection that clearly display a darker shiny phenotype.

Tienie
You are quite correct in your statement "but we might be missing trick and only recognize df birds and sf are mistaken as normal birds".

I will email you examples and how we are able to distinguish the differences.

Peter
@Peter, why not just upload them for public discussion?

@Tienie, how close are those suggested SF birds to normal blue? The reason I ask is that there are many reports of blue x "NT blue/violet/dark" where the offspring were blue and "NT blue/violet/dark", clearly showing it to be a SF. UNLESS... the SF birds are almost exactly the same as a blue. Then these birds in the pics might be a DF, and might also be a very similar or the same muation as "azure". What makes me doubt this, however, is 1) the numbers of these birds. They are not that rare. 2) Informal verification of the mutation by a Pretoria breeders suggests a violet phenotype in DF. This was after many people repeatedly questioned the "violets" he was selling, so he went out to prove a point. I haven't seen the bird though.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by madas » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:47 pm

@Peter: please could you write a summary on this topic which we can use on our new ringneck-genetics plattform? If possible with pics.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:04 am

Only a pleasure my friend

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:17 am

Johan S wrote:the SF birds are almost exactly the same as a blue. Then these birds in the pics might be a DF, and might also be a very similar or the same muation as "azure". What makes me doubt this, however, is 1) the numbers of these birds. They are not that rare. 2) Informal verification of the mutation by a Pretoria breeders suggests a violet phenotype in DF. This was after many people repeatedly questioned the "violets" he was selling, so he went out to prove a point. I haven't seen the bird though.
@ Tienie: The other thing that makes me doubt the phenotype very close to blue is this: While we were studying the birds, I specifically asked about the parentage of the bird and Peter assured me the bird that we used for comparison in the pictures was bred from a blue father (cleartail is also involved, but not relevant). Thus, we are guaranteed that the bird (at least the blue one) is a SF expression of the mutation. I'm sure Peter wouldn't have tried to mislead me. Forgot to mention it earlier.

@Peter: How's the photo coming along of the SF and DF bird next to one another? That's going to be an awesome pic. :)

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:54 am

Pics of green, dgreen, SA deep green and violet green.


Image

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:56 am

pic of green, dgreen, American violet green and SA deep green.


Image

Tienie
Last edited by Carr.birds on Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:11 pm

That is an excellent comparison of SF birds, thanks Tienie! Now we just have to wait for Peter's pic of the SF and DF next to one another.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:58 pm

Tienie- you are an absolute legend :D

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:27 am

Chocobo

Thanks for the compliment. It is an absolute pleasure, IRN mutation breeding is my passion. Breeding, observing, learning and sharing knowledge with other passionate breeders and knowledgeable people is the best reward you can get.

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:34 am

Unfortunately the DF was SA Deep Green was sold last week by my breeding partner, so lets start with the basics and i will show the differences with what we have to work with.

The technique I am going to briefly explain I use when we are unable to visually tell birds apart with the naked eye, but is also a perfect why to point out the differences between SF birds and DF birds.

Tienie's wonderful picture of green, DK green, American violet green and SA deep green.
Image

Tienie's wonderful picture under the fillers
Image

Tienie's SA Deep SF
Image

Tienie's SA Deep under the fillers SF
Image

I am going to cut to the chase here and am not going to bother identifying the rest of the birds under the fillers and point out what to look for in the SA Deeps.

Firstly we are looking under the filters for a "red purple" main tale feather and purple on the wings.

Now lets look at some pictures of SA DF Deeps
Image

Under the filters
Image

Image

Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:00 pm

All the talk about 'SA Deep' why, until the homozygous bird is bred? Is anyone about to do this?

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:30 pm

Willy

If you read Peter's argument you will notice he is trying to explain by using his filters that the df (homozygous) "SA Deep" already exist. Correct me if I am wrong but for me homozygous mean the df bird in dominant mutations and visual full colour in recessive mutation like cleartail.

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:35 pm

prodigy wrote:Unfortunately the DF was SA Deep Green was sold last week by my breeding partner, so lets start with the basics and i will show the differences with what we have to work with.

The technique I am going to briefly explain I use when we are unable to visually tell birds apart with the naked eye, but is also a perfect why to point out the differences between SF birds and DF birds.
@Peter, are you sure they were sold? I spoke to him yesterday and he said they are still there and I can come have a look on Sunday. You don't perhaps have a pic of the full tail feather? From both the filtered and unfiltered pics it seems as if that is once again the region where we will get the most information about the DF.

@Willy, yesterday when I spoke to the breeder Peter often refers to, he did mention he is setting up pairs to try and breed DF birds. Furthermore, I think collectively between a couple of breeders, there will be birds paired to achieve DF, a cobalt combination and a violet combination. There will hopefully be answers to these phenotype questions towards the end of the year. Allelic relationships with dark and violet will follow much later.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:55 pm

Peter,

Can you make sure you use settings: hue 154 & sat. 150 just to make sure we can compare same settings.
I have the "green violet" from the same nest as the 1 with light nails which i talked about in another thread.
The mother is a violetblue, i looked at it and it is rather a nice dark color, it is not a cobalt phenotype and paired to a green this is the offspring.

* one thing is for sure, taking a photo closeup will change the color intensity in the hue/sat system to a more accentuated color.


http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/vgred.jpg

Tienie & Everone else,
As far as Deep Blue. I believe that everyone would agree with me in saying that we need to setup pairs for next breeding season and need to use 100% identified birds as Deep .
Some of the pairings we'll need to make from SA as well as AUS breeders:
Deep X Deep - (with and without blue)
Deep X Grey etc.
I think we should communicate & record on the research website who is doing what, keep strict records including pics of parents and progressive pics of young.
Hopefully within one year we'll have most of todays questions answered.
Working as a team will achieve great things in a short period of time, and results are verified by everyone.

Ben

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:59 pm

They are all 2012 birds and of no use to man nor beat at this stage of the game, the MATURE DF birds have been sold into a breading program.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:05 am

Carr.birds wrote:Willy

If you read Peter's argument you will notice he is trying to explain by using his filters that the df (homozygous) "SA Deep" already exist. Correct me if I am wrong but for me homozygous mean the df bird in dominant mutations and visual full colour in recessive mutation like cleartail.

Tienie
Sorry, I guess that is what I mean't; a DF 'SA Deep Blue' alongside a SF 'SA Deep Blue'. If they exist then that comparison will be much more worthwhile .......... or does it exist in Blue? The differences will be more pronounced in Blue series I reckon.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:36 am

Edit Removed
Last edited by Ring0Neck on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:39 am

prodigy wrote:They are all 2012 birds and of no use to man nor beat at this stage of the game, the MATURE DF birds have been sold into a breading program.
Of course not, pictures of young birds are also nice to look at! :lol:

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:26 am

Johan S wrote:
prodigy wrote:Unfortunately the DF was SA Deep Green was sold last week by my breeding partner, so lets start with the basics and i will show the differences with what we have to work with.

The technique I am going to briefly explain I use when we are unable to visually tell birds apart with the naked eye, but is also a perfect why to point out the differences between SF birds and DF birds.
@Peter, are you sure they were sold? I spoke to him yesterday and he said they are still there and I can come have a look on Sunday. You don't perhaps have a pic of the full tail feather? From both the filtered and unfiltered pics it seems as if that is once again the region where we will get the most information about the DF.
I have had another phone call to clear the air, the mature birds are in fact sold. I have misunderstood. My apologies!

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:12 am

Johan, Peter and Forum

I think I know who bought the so called df birds. It should not be difficult to get some pictures. Before we continue I want to know from Peter if he is a 100% sure that the matured green hen is a df and not a dark SA “deep green” ?

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:51 am

Below is the pairing that the bird in question came from, the filters show me that the bird in question has highest concentration of "red purple = deep" I have seen in any green series bird, of that I am 101% sure.

Whether the bird is Green or DK Green is irrelevant to me, the concentration and the fact that the bird shows up completely covered in "red purple" from head to tail with the RED tail points to a DF SA Deep Green or DF SA Deep DK Green

Look at your DK Green in the picture under the filter and notice nothing on the wings and the red-orange tail

Now Look at your SA Deep Green in the picture under the filter and notice the very different appearance as described above and in previous posts.


1,0 'Deep' D green /blue x 0,1 'Deep' blue

1,0 6.25% green /blue
1,0 6.25% blue
1,0 6.25% D blue
1,0 6.25% D green /blue
1,0 12.5% 'Deep' blue
1,0 12.5% 'Deep' D blue
1,0 12.5% 'Deep' D green /blue
1,0 12.5% 'Deep' green /blue
1,0 6.25% 'Deep'(DF) blue
1,0 6.25% 'Deep'(DF) D blue
1,0 6.25% 'Deep'(DF) D green /blue
1,0 6.25% 'Deep'(DF) green /blue

0,1 6.25% green /blue
0,1 6.25% blue
0,1 6.25% D blue
0,1 6.25% D green /blue
0,1 12.5% 'Deep' blue
0,1 12.5% 'Deep' D blue
0,1 12.5% 'Deep' D green /blue
0,1 12.5% 'Deep' green /blue
0,1 6.25% 'Deep'(DF) blue
0,1 6.25% 'Deep'(DF) D blue
0,1 6.25% 'Deep'(DF) D green /blue
0,1 6.25% 'Deep'(DF) green /blue

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:17 am

Carr.birds wrote:Lee

Thanks we will communicate and decide on the way forward after consultation with my friends Recio, Stefan and Deon. I think the fact that the original imported European "Deep" green hen is in our possession will be helpful. Every breeder wants to make money but for me it is more important to sort out the mutation first and place it in the correct category.

Tienie
Ummmm I think the experts should handle this one

:lol:

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:05 am

Peter

The problem we are sitting with is that if you view Nico’s breeding list you can see that at some stage in 2005/6/7 he introduced dark and violet into his collection. The 2 original imported hens are 2000 birds. Let’s assume he was lucky and in 2002 produced his first SA born SA Deep birds. These babies were ready to breed in 2004. In the early stage of a new mutation you keep producing the heterozygous (sf) bird to broaden your stock and sell some to get a good return on your investment. Hans Meyer (SA dark factor) only years later produced his first homozygous (df) bird. From the Nico list I have the only df birds were marked as “df violet blue clearheaded fallow” bred in 2010.

In my opinion we should work with the original imported hens and SA Deep green and Deep blue birds that were bred from 2002 to 2005. To avoid any confusion Dark and Violet must be absent.

I was told by a breeder who own Nico Theunissen birds today that he produced df birds from to a pair of sf SA Deep birds. Let’s wait for the pictures for comparisons.

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by smick » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:03 am

Do normal green cocks usually have blue upper tail feathes because the cock I had upper tail feathers were pure green?

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:43 am

Hi Smick,

Yea,
It is quiet easy to identify a green as opposed to dark/violet green just have them next to each other.
see pic below:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/edge/grvioNgrn1.jpg
wildtype green
Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:18 pm

interesting- thanks for putting them under the filters Peter.

I asked a breeder who had some Oz deep birds and he said that the only noticeable difference between a normal Green and a (oz)Deep Green was that the (oz)Deep Green had a slightly different shade of blue in it's tail feathers, but other than that they were virtually identical. Unfortunately the picture he shared didn't say much as the tail feathers weren't in the shot.

What have you found Willy?

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:38 am

Sorry, I don't have a Deep Green

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sheyd
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:36 pm

ah, that's okay- thanks.
Would love to have the Deep mutation so I could have a play around with it with the Green series

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:20 am

As soon as the pathetic South Africa government lift that ban on importing birds to and from Australia I will happily trade anyone who wants !

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:30 am

Peter

You will never be able to export birds to Australia, but will be able to import from them when the ban is lifted and only from some regions in Australia.

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by prodigy » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:10 am

thanks Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:37 am

Carr.birds wrote:Pics of green, dgreen, SA deep green and violet green.

*****Tienie - I have noticed a few yellow spots on the dgreen bird in your pic below - i have a green hen with a few yellow dots as well.
Could that be a marker that the bird is split to some particular mutation?


Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by madas » Sat May 18, 2013 8:03 am

Only normal green (for sure split opaline and blue)??? Out of opaline green /blue x turq cobalt violet.
But this cobalt violet isn't that dark as my other cobalt violets but is notable darker then a good Quality violetblue.
Pics taken outside today with cloudy weather conditions.

Judging from the tail color i would go for normal green. Your opinion please?

Image
Image
Image
Image

thx.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Sat May 18, 2013 4:46 pm

Tienie, I again spot the bits of blue colour on the wings of the SA Deep Green. It doesn't seem to get mentioned much when these images of SA Deeps are posted. Is this feature variable to any extent? Is it at all evident when in Blue series? When will a DF SA Deep be bred??

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Sat May 18, 2013 11:56 pm

Willy, no green feathers present in the blue series birds. 2012 double factors to be reverse bred to blue to confirm they are that in 2014. Many pairs set up for producing df birds this coming season. We'll have to be patient. That's not my forte...

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Sun May 19, 2013 11:00 pm

Willy

As mentioned before I bought the original imported "European" dgreen/turq hen. My other 'SA deep' birds are from Nico's stock but my 2 cocks are 'SA deep' blue sl edged and 'SA deep blue' dilute. I have another hen 'SA deep' green/blue/dilute.

If breeders in SA leave if to me for proof it will take a few years. I am not prepared to work with any other bird then the original imported hen mentioned above. I paired her with my breeding blue opaline cock for this season.

I am not convinced that SA dark are not present in some of Nico's birds bred after 2006/2007.

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by madas » Wed May 22, 2013 1:24 am

Any one who could help me with my Problem resp. pics?
Chick is displaying black nails.

thx.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by madas » Wed May 22, 2013 1:43 am

molossus wrote:Madas the baby certainly looks a normal green. any pic update ?
Nope. Not until today. I will taken new pics at the weekend.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Wed May 22, 2013 1:47 am

madas wrote:Any one who could help me with my Problem resp. pics?
Chick is displaying black nails.

thx.
Sorry for not responding! I wanted to suggest waiting for the bird to get a little older first.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:18 am

Kappa's sf Green Deep (Australian)


Image


Image



Image

Image

Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:40 am

Molossus,
we gotta get a deep green in the same shot with a wildtype and dark.
if i acquire a deep green, i'd like to analise it very closely V wildtype

i think a video closeup of the 3, would also help ....


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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:36 pm

Pity there isn't a full body shot in natural light. It would give a better idea. Having said that, the tail is extremely light. This constantly surprises me. And I agree fully with Molossus; that picture taken with a flash would have had me bank my money on misty. Very interesting!

Thanks for the pics!

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:27 pm

Hi molossus,
I have just emailed more photos to Ben of the deep green in natural light. I am 100% sure it is a deep green, I don't even know if there is any mist in oz. At least you don't hear anyone talking about misty mutations.
Cheers,
Kappa.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:28 pm

I got more pics from Kappa will upload soon

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:59 pm

Kappa's pics of Deep Green
Firstly we need to see a deep blue offspring from these birds to confirm them as being deep,
i am not doubting Kappa, we just need to be 100% certain what we're looking at are indeed deep greens since they are so close to a wildtype how can one be sure the birds carry the deep mutation?


As Kappa said, he will try to get a wildtype green to compare birds in same shot (photo)
Very hard to tell the difference between Kappa's Deep Green male & a normal green. pics are very tricky, as Willy says; birds to compare should be taken in the same photo otherwise it's pointless.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:20 am

Lee & Johan- what says to you that the bird/s in the pics with the flash look Misty? I have been trying to find pics and descriptions of Misty, and all I'm coming up with is that the body colour is dulled in appearance with normal-ish flights, tail and head. The sf & df Deep Greens posted above have a brown wash to them when a pic taken with a flash- is this a characteristic of Misty?

cheers.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:20 pm

Hi everyone,

I have been trying to find a normal green cock bird to take photos with my deep green, however none of the breeders I know keep them. I may have to resort to buying one.

In an update on my deep green male, I spoke to the original breeder of the bird yesterday, and asked wether or not he was breeding deep with the misty mutation, due to the bronze effect on my bird.
He said that he has never bred with misty to his knowledge. We then checked his breeding records and found that my deep was not from a cobalt and deep green as first thought. Records show that he is out of a olive (or df Aussie green cobalt as he put it) and a turquoise hen. He went on to say that it did in fact look different and he is still not sure what it was 100% as he has never seen one quite like it again. He only bred one clutch from him, and the following year the bird was attacked and died.

I also know the breeder that possibility has the full blood sister to my male, I will visit him on Monday and see what he knows, and if possible try and acquire her from him.
So the plot thickens.
Kappa.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:45 am

molossus wrote:Shady hi,
The misty does that under changing light conditions.
As you see from the pic earlier the head is green - ish whilst the body appears brown and the tail looks mauvish.
chicks are much easier to id as they do appear bronze green in the nestbox and change startlingly to almost normal green when moved to normal light. thankfully the df misty isn't such trouble and retain their bronze appearance.
as in the deep, the misty tail is lighter than the normal green or blue or violet.
there are blue mistys that have a greyish body and a blue head whilst there are also blue mistys that appear washed blue grey.
I will try to post some pics later.
Ah, thankyou so much for your explanation (and pics)- makes perfect sense now- and now I understand why you and Johan may believe my bird is Misty where as I couldn't see it before (depending on the light, bronze-ish for Green series and silver-ish for Blue series?).
I (as you know) have paired her up to a Green Cock who hopefully if split, is split for nothing but Blue.- but mustn't get too excited as Misty hasn't yet been officially identified in Oz yet- so don't want to get too excited lol 8)

Kappa- is it possible for you to take some more pics of your bird with flash and in different lighting?

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:27 pm

here are a couple of pics that I took on either the first or second day of having the bird home- as you can see she appears brownish with the flash- this is how she appeared to me when I bought her- as I previously mentioned she was in a cage inside, and it was dark- they shone a light on her and she (for all intents and purposes) was sold to me as a Cinnamon Green. Well- I say it's easy to see why they (and me) thought that.

Image
Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:22 am

Hi Shey,

I have set up a photo bucket account and uploaded photos, but haven't worked out how to link them over to the forum. As soon as i work it out it will post them. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Kappa.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:41 pm

Kappa wrote:Hi Shey,

I have set up a photo bucket account and uploaded photos, but haven't worked out how to link them over to the forum. As soon as i work it out it will post them. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Kappa.
If your photobucket account is public, then you can tell us what name you've given your library and we can search for it ourselves (within pb).

Or you can send the link to me via pm and I'll post it for you (go into your library and select the text in the search bar, copy and then paste into message/post).

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:52 pm

Hi Lee- thankyou for posting - these are very helpful and important reference pics


Very interesting results- is it possible that your cock is a Dark Blue rather than Violet Blue? or maybe the hen is a Dark Green- where did the Dark chick come from?

(re-posted your pic for you, so others can see)
Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:43 am

Image


Hi Shey,
if you right click on your mouse and open a new tab on your browser it will link you to my photobucket album.
i have posted some photos with flash and some on an overcast day.
Cheers Kappa.
Last edited by Kappa on Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:50 am

posted for kappa

Image

take away the extra [IMG] on each end and it'll come up like that

I can't get it to take me (to your account)- perhaps you try reposting it? or post the link (make sure your library is public) like this : http://s21.photobucket.com/user/Spirite ... t=3&page=1
Last edited by sheyd on Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:04 am

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Finally, success. Thanks Shey, something so minor can make things so frustrating.
thanks heaps Kappa.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:10 am

no problem.
I'm on board with Johan and Lee and think that your bird is one of the best candidates (in Oz) to be a Misty Green.
You should check out this site *best viewed on pc or mac to see everything - will need to be translated though: http://www.osnanet.de/markus.ehrenbrink/home.html

I am looking forward to your breeding results :)

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:55 am

molossus wrote: btw the chicks in the pics : perched on R is the misty violet green / perched on L is misty DF and DK factor is on wire above DF sibling.
: in box L front DF and R front is Violet green and at rear is DK factor sibling.
hope this is clear.
yes, that helps a lot. cheers. am also looking forward to your results this season- regarding your pairs- knowledge is the path to enlightenment :)

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:15 am

Hi Shey,
He definately looks very similar to the bird in the second photo on the link you posted. Especially the faded blue in tail. I can only hope I have as much luck as my mate who, from his blue male and deep blue hen, bred 4 deep blues and 3 blues out of two clutches. He won't part with his deep green hen this season, but I will try and convince him after the season is over.
My aim is to breed the deep into my CT's and see what happens, especially in df.
Regards Kappa.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:53 am

Well, just to clarify, I'm not saying the bird is definitely a misty. Only that it certainly looks very similar. And the same goes for every picture (there have been precious few) of a deep green, it has reminded me of misty. If I only saw the pictures without background, I'd guess misty, though.

@Kappa, I'd be very curious to see what that cock produces with a blue (CT will be fine) hen and if you can confirm deep in the form of a deep blue/CT. What are you planning for this season, if you don't mind me asking?

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:28 pm

Hi Johan,
The plan this season is to try and breed a df deep green that is my main aim. If I produce a sf deep blue will be a bonus, and if the breeding gods look favourably on me perhaps a df deep blue. I will work on the deep and CT mutation combo most likely next year. Although I am also interested what effect the deep will have on violet. Decisions, decisions.
Regards,
Kappa.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:36 pm

Kappa,

No need to wonder, there's heaps of pics of deep violet blue birds, Ron has few posted on his website.
http://fabulousparrots.com.au/photos.cfm

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:03 pm

Hi Ben,
Thanks for the link. Ron has some very impressive birds and mutation combinations, interesting to note however, no deep CT's. I wonder if there is a reason behind that. I would have thought that this would have been tried by now at least by someone. It may be a new line of enquiry, to find out if anyone has tried the deep CT combo, and what were the results?, and was the outcome worth the effort?
Cheers,
Kappa.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:08 pm

I have asked the same Question in the forum (another thread) and i have nothing so far, no explanantion.
Let's not forget, one needs 2-3 years to accomplish this task.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:33 am

Kappa wrote:Hi Johan,
The plan this season is to try and breed a df deep green that is my main aim.
Another good plan. Are you using a deep blue or deep green/blue hen? We'll assume the cock is deep as purchased and not misty in the interim.

I'd actually be very happy if the df deep green shows the brownish misty tinge. It should add more perspective to this whole argument that there is no clear difference between deep and dark.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:17 pm

Hi Johan,
The hen i am using is unfortunately a deep green pallid/blue. She is actually the cock birds half sister. Hopefully any df deep greens are hens, other wise I will have to breed backwards to try and breed out the pallid from future pairings. I have to work with what I've got.
Kappa.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:57 pm

Kappa, I have paired a DF Deep TurquoiseBlue to a Blue CHCT for this year. I don not know of any Deep CHCTs yet.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:06 am

Trabots,

That's good to hear. I think that it has been a combination which has been overlooked. We may just get some momentum going and get a few more interested parties in our little experiment. Looking forward to your future results. The waiting will be the hardest part of the whole process.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:27 am

The real reason nobody has bred Deep into CHCT or many other mutations is the very small number of breeders who have the real Deep mutation. Nobody outside of Oz has bred and shown the DF form of their own supposed Deep mutations. There are probably many Deeps in aviaries in Oz which remain just 'Australian Cobalts' and they haven't a clue what they really have. Myself, Ron and another breeder I know have been just getting the numbers of Deeps up by breeding them to sex-linked and more often dominant mutations.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:20 pm

Johan S wrote:
Kappa wrote:Hi Johan,
The plan this season is to try and breed a df deep green that is my main aim.
Another good plan. Are you using a deep blue or deep green/blue hen? We'll assume the cock is deep as purchased and not misty in the interim.

I'd actually be very happy if the df deep green shows the brownish misty tinge. It should add more perspective to this whole argument that there is no clear difference between deep and dark.
Wouldn't there also be a change in the Blue series too if it were the case- if say that Kappa's bird is a Deep Green and not say a Misty (or another mutation entirely), wouldn't it act similarly in the Blue series?

Willy, do you have any pics of one of your Deep Blues under different lighting conditions as well as flash?

I have had the Deep Green described to me by Mick Blake- he didn't mention that they show up brownish in certain lights or pics with flash, only that they have a "bluer" (can be interpreted in many ways) tail and are hard to pick from a regular Green.

It is the reason I started this thread- I wanted to see how they differ- but the picture supplied to me (by Mick) wasn't in anyway ideal for identifying one against the regular Green phenotype- then, in this thread we learnt that SA (South Africa) may have it's own "Deep" as demonstrated by Peter & Tienie.
Last edited by sheyd on Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:20 pm

All will be revealed when the other 'Deeps' produce their homozygous form.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:42 pm

I totally agree, that there are many deeps, especially greens in backyards of small breeders who are not aware of what they have. Inturn these would have produced deep blues and both would have been sold of as normals to others. I know this for a fact because the two breeders I know with deeps were only interested in producing deep blues and sold off the deep greens into the pet trade they didn't attach any value to them, they were glad to get rid of them. I got my pair for next to nothing. This is the reason they seem so hard to find. This is also the reason I why I will attempt to purchase the only other deep green/ turquoise hen I know of, at the end of the season.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:41 pm

Hi Kappa- sorry, should've been more specific- I meant South Africa and not South Australia (to avoid any future possible confusion, have gone back and edited post)

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:35 am


Congrats to Ron for breeding the Deep blue Cleartail !! see his pics on his website
http://fabulousparrots.com.au/photos.cfm
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by madas » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:14 am

molossus wrote:Ringo hi,
Clearly Ron has done lots with the deep. Love the pics.
I am curious about one bird...the violet green dom pied/...
looks an emerald violet green dom pied...can he post some pics and tell us about the birds breeding.
leading to the point that emerald is a dominant mutation not visible in green series birds unless it is combined with a mutation which is altering the melanin distribution??????? It's a question not a conclusion

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:42 am


Plausible Question Madas !

Molossus
looks an emerald violet green dom pied...can he post some pics and tell us about the birds breeding.


I talked to him about that bird a while back.
It comes from a breeder with lots of experience (was first in Oz to have violet with his partner at the time) and he said the there is no emerald in the bloodline of this bird . he has emeralds more then most in fact.
so the breeder is rather sure it is not emerald. :roll: in saying that if Ron would sell it for the price of a pied i would get off him :D



as per my update chances of breeding the green x emerald this year is very slim.
see
http://ringneck-genetics.com/index.php/ ... ue-thread4

and
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=16938&p=94822#p94822

any suggestions as always are welcome.

on the bright side: deep x grey test breeding is on.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:55 am

Don't have other pics of Ron's bird. Maybe Willy can get some.

he is 2 y o
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/emeraldGrCk.jpg
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:12 pm

These are from Ron, they were Jack Smith's including the original Deep Green, the young bird is compared to 2 normals in the nest.

[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

[URL=http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/ ... .jpg[/img][/url]

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:58 pm

Wiily

Thanks for sharing that with us.

Attched the babies from my Blue opaline & "SA deep" green/blue (original imported hen)


Image

"SA deep" green mother
Image

Blue Opaline father
Image

Your opinion welcome. Keep in mind picture taken with flash

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:49 am

"SA deep" green, is it a hen opaline? or is it just the flash?
looking forward to more pics as it feathers up.
Any luck with df SA deep blue? or too early to tell?

very exciting times ;)
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:34 pm

Ben

Correct. believe on looks it is the only opaline in the nest. With the naked eye at this stage I would say, " SA deep" green/blue/opaline, "SA deep" green opaline/blue and "SA deep " blue /opaline. The hen is on 4 fertile eggs for second clutch.

Attached a pic from "SA deep" blue sl edged & violet dblue cinnamon sl edged
Image

Image

Pics taken with flash

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Sherjil » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:41 am

Ring0Neck wrote:
Plausible Question Madas !

Molossus
looks an emerald violet green dom pied...can he post some pics and tell us about the birds breeding.


I talked to him about that bird a while back.
It comes from a breeder with lots of experience (was first in Oz to have violet with his partner at the time) and he said the there is no emerald in the bloodline of this bird . he has emeralds more then most in fact.
so the breeder is rather sure it is not emerald. :roll: in saying that if Ron would sell it for the price of a pied i would get off him :D



as per my update chances of breeding the green x emerald this year is very slim.
see
http://ringneck-genetics.com/index.php/ ... ue-thread4

and
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=16938&p=94822#p94822

any suggestions as always are welcome.

on the bright side: deep x grey test breeding is on.

Tried registering to the new site ringneck-genetics ; however it doesnt allow to do so ... can anyone please help ?

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:43 pm

Sherjil,

We are at the begining and how we handle new members requests has not been established as yet.
ATM rego is by invite only.
Thank you for your patience.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Sherjil » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:50 am

Ring0Neck wrote:Sherjil,

We are at the begining and how we handle new members requests has not been established as yet.
ATM rego is by invite only.
Thank you for your patience.

Thanks RingONeck can I be invited :)

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:50 am

Carr.birds wrote:Ben

Correct. believe on looks it is the only opaline in the nest. With the naked eye at this stage I would say, " SA deep" green/blue/opaline, "SA deep" green opaline/blue and "SA deep " blue /opaline. The hen is on 4 fertile eggs for second clutch.

Attached a pic from "SA deep" blue sl edged & violet dblue cinnamon sl edged
Image

Image

Pics taken with flash

Tienie
Tienie,

Any chance you can update us with pics of the above ?
Much appreciated.
Any news on DF SA Deep?
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:01 pm

Ben

SA deep violet blue sl edged
Image

indigoblue cock, "brilliant" blue hen and babies
Image

Image

Image

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:35 pm

Hi Tienie,

Thanks for the updates, great birds.

Your SA deep violet blue sl edged looks close phenotype to the Belgium violets we've seen pics floating around of...

The Briliant blues, are briliant.
I wonder if the blue birds i'm looking at here are the same... did you pair any briliant blues together yet? or to green?

1 y old hen
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PA205446.JPG
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:25 pm

What is a brilliant blue?
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:51 am

Carr.birds wrote:SA deep violet blue sl edged
Image
Tienie, I think there is more to this bird. The feet are pink and the body has a very strong greyish overtone. I would have guess clearhead fallow was also involved if I didn't know the parents of this bird. Thoughts?
Skyes_crew wrote:What is a brilliant blue?
Melissa, Tienie owns a few blue birds that shows a slightly brighter blue phenotype. And to me also looks a little bit darker. He is looking into what it could possibly be and this is the name he uses until he has figured out the mystery.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:28 am

Johan

Bred from SA deep blue sl edged/cinnamon? & violet cobalt sl edged-cinnamon hen. The 2 first round babies are cocks based on their phenotype and if not cinnamon must be split cinnamon. Do you think cobalt is involved. Second round babies are almost ready for a pic. One nice dark edged cock and purple edged hen

Tienie

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:32 am

Anyone with thoughts on these birds?
no straight blue in this pic
These cockbirds are from the breeder i got my PR blue birds from.

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PA255684.JPG

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http://parakeet.me/irn/f/PA255684red.JPG
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:38 am

Carr.birds wrote:Johan

Bred from SA deep blue sl edged/cinnamon? & violet cobalt sl edged-cinnamon hen. The 2 first round babies are cocks based on their phenotype and if not cinnamon must be split cinnamon. Do you think cobalt is involved. Second round babies are almost ready for a pic. One nice dark edged cock and purple edged hen

Tienie
No, I don't think cobalt. I'm thinking there is more to the mother as well. She is extremely grey for and edged-cinnamon. I can't put my finger on it, but maybe something like misty. I would think that misty would be lighter than this bird, though. So I'm not sure, really.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Carr.birds » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:41 am

Ben

1st round babies from blue opaline and SA deep green/blue
Image

2nd round babies from blue opaline and SA deep green/blue hen
Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:27 am

Tienie,

I'm glad, at least some of us had a great breeding season.
We should open separate thread for SA deep and everything related to it;
or we can do it on the gentics site, benefit: we can keep the thread clear/clean of unrelated to subject posts.
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:17 pm

Ron has bred Deep Green chicks!!! :shock: was starting to think that they didn't exist (visually) Is going to be fabulous to compare these against normals and darks :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

http://www.fabulousparrots.com.au/photos

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:53 pm

sheyd wrote:Ron has bred Deep Green chicks!!! :shock: was starting to think that they didn't exist (visually) Is going to be fabulous to compare these against normals and darks :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

http://www.fabulousparrots.com.au/photos
Thanks Shey! Haven't visited the site in a while, but it's nice to see them. The dark body and lighter tail looks suspiciously like the ones over here, but these ones definitely produce a violet phenotype when combined with dark.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:24 am

yes, will be interesting watching them mature and what they produce with structural mutations in the green series--- also looking forward to seeing a df Deep Green.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:56 am

Deep Green and Deep Blue, mature birds

Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Recio » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:08 pm

Hi Willy,

The male, the female, the nestbox, ... any offspring?

Recio

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:11 pm

Recio, this pair was apparently owned by the first ever breeder of a Deep Blue who is now deceased. He obtained the Deep Greens from the Smiths. I don't know if they were already /Blue or whether he did the initial breeding of /Blues. The Deep Blue might in fact be a Blue for all we know and that pair breeding the first splits. The image was sent to me by another breeder of Deep Blues.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:28 am

Thanks for the pic, Willy. What baffles me is that the first pair is a deep green/?blue x ?deep blue, so in theory there should be many deep greens/blue around Oz. The baffling part is, why are we struggling to find pictures of deep greens? Is the phenotype of deep green and the wildtype so close that the deep greens slip through as normal greens? :?:

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:28 am

Hi Johan,
As you can see from the photo posted by Willy, and photos I have posted in regards to deep greens, there is very little to tell them apart from the wild type green. They would quite easily be over looked in a flock of wild type greens. I even doubted that my cock bird was deep, but only for the word of the breeder.

I have bred what at this early stage maybe a possible df deep green, but am waiting for some wild type greens to feather up so that I can make some comparisons. Looking at the chick, which is 4weeks old, there does seem to be a difference bitween it and the sf deep cock. I will wait a little while before I jump to any conclusions.

Cheers.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:35 am

Thanks Kappa, looking forward to some pics of the deep green and his offspring. :D

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:47 am

Hi Everyone,
It's been a few days since looking at my deep green chick and its feathers have grow enough for me to be able to say that I would call it a df deep green.
It is definately different to its father, darker and more of an olive colour. Here are some pics.
Cheers.
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:13 am

Here are some more photos


Imagea

Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:23 am

Image

And just one more.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:17 am

Kappa

Thank you sooooo much !!!!

Finally somebody cares !

I bet that not many expected this phenotype :? Mysterious
I will say no more, let's see what others have to say.


Edit: rephrasing the Question
Question: Will a deep grey look any different to a grey ???

Last edited by Ring0Neck on Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Recio » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:24 am

Hi Kappa,

Are the nails colour of this chick darker than his father's nails?

Thanks

Recio

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:57 am

Kappa, what hen did you breed your Deep Green to and are you in Australia?

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:36 am

Thanks Kappa, you are a rock star in my books! :D

Your bird is very interesting and the brownish tinge reminds me of the picture that Willy uploaded some time ago. We were all wondering how accurate that picture is, but clearly not that far off. I can't wait for this bird to colour up and esp the tail to grow out.

@Recio, nail colour art this age might be a bit premature. :)

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:25 pm

definately keen to see more- esp with a Wildtype and the Deep Green sire :D

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:30 am

Hi everyone,

This chick turned out to be so much more than I expected. It will be a very versatile addition to my breeding program.
There will be more photos and comparisons to come.
My only disappointment is that I lost a dark green chick, it would have good to have when comparing the different green series birds all together .

Willy, I'm from Oz and the hen I bred with the deep is a deep green pallid. They are from Martin G. lines.
Thank you to everyone for the positive feedback. I will keep you all informed.
Cheers.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:54 am

the Deep Green Pallid must be nice. Pallid is so much nicer in Green series IMO.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:39 pm

Hi Recio,
I wanted to wait until the chick was older to inform you of the colour of it's nails. Looking at the nails as they are atm they are a dark brown colour, not black. I don't know if they will change as it gets older.

Image

Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:58 am

Ron sent me this today. Only a phone pic, camera pics to come. Nothing like what I see in this thread.

SF Deep Green
Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Recio » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:16 am

Hi Kappa,

Thank you for the pics ... but my questions remains : is the chick nails colour darker than his father's nails? If rigth now the colour is already darker it would point to Deep as a melanistic mutation. If not yet ... let's wait and see a bit later.

Thanks

Recio

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:29 am

Willy, the reports from Oz is that the original deep green is only a step darker than the wildtype. That picture reminds me of our local birds, which are significantly darker than the wildtype.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:34 pm

Thank you for the pics ... but my questions remains : is the chick nails colour darker than his father's nails? If rigth now the colour is already darker it would point to Deep as a melanistic mutation. If not yet ... let's wait and see a bit later.
I have seen various shades of nail and feet colour in the same mutations, IMO not a defining characteristic except in the obvious ones.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:53 pm

Is Ron able to have the Deep green chicks photographed with Wildtype chicks of roughly the same age...why isn't anybody doing this!?

Thanks for the phone pic Willy- looking forward to camera pics... though a bird on it's own tells us nothing.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:19 pm

Shey, Ron assures me that is happening, hopefully alongside a Dark Green and a Violet Green as well.


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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:42 pm

Hi Shey,
I will post some photos soon. My wildtype greens are about 4weeks now. The little buggers won't grow fast enough. It very frustrating.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:33 am

trabots wrote:Shey, Ron assures me that is happening, hopefully alongside a Dark Green and a Violet Green as well.
Fantastic news! :D

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:08 pm

Kappa, thanks for the private email. It shouldn't need to be private. Ron's Deep Blue birds are the same as Martins as are mine. Only Ron has bred Deep Greens (in our little group). You say you have them? Where are your images? Have you bred a DF Deep in either Blue or Green? If you think your birds are different only your breeding of DF birds can prove or disprove. I would be most happy if there was yet another structural mutation. Ron's image was with a phone. Let's just wait for the accurate camera pics which I know will be in hand soon.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:59 pm

Hi Willy,
I have nothing to hide and the private email was to discuss the obvious difference in what I have been lead to believe is deep green and the photo Ron has provided. I merely decided that a private discussion would be more appropriate, not knowing how Ron or Martin would react to being publicly involved a discussion. I know that all the deeps come from the same source, and the variation to what was being labeled as deep green was a surprise.

My deep green is bred from 1 of Martin's birds, and as for images, I have posted some early on in this thread. Have I bred a df deep green? I thought I did, but I am unfortunately starting to have my doubts. The chick I have was very different early on ( also posted photos in this thread) but has "greened up" and lightened up as it has grown. I will wait until it and others (wild type green) fledge and tails grow out before I make closer comparisons.

I will be waiting with interest to see more photos of Ron's deep green, and if there is an obvious difference, then maybe I have something different, which requires more investigation.

Regards,
Kappa.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:28 pm

My deep green is bred from 1 of Martin's birds, and as for images, I have posted some early on in this thread. Have I bred a df deep green? I thought I did, but I am unfortunately starting to have my doubts. The chick I have was very different early on ( also posted photos in this thread) but has "greened up" and lightened up as it has grown. I will wait until it and others (wild type green) fledge and tails grow out before I make closer comparisons.
Kappa, I apologise for not taking the time to go back to the start of the thread. Your bird has hardly any blue in the tail, even less than some wildtypes. Whatever the camera a Deep Green is going to show a darker than normal blue tail as did Ron's birds.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:26 pm

Kappa wrote:Hi Shey,
I will post some photos soon. My wildtype greens are about 4weeks now. The little buggers won't grow fast enough. It very frustrating.
That would be fantastic Kappa- looking forward to them :)

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:55 am

Ron has just sent me images of a Deep Green with a Green, both 100% for sure. Kappa, I don't know what to say but your bird is significantly different.

SF Deep Green, Green
Image

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by sheyd » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:17 am

Thank you so much Willy- thanks to Ron too - nothing like what I expected- it's even better than I had imagined. :D Breed from a df Deep yes?

Cheers

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:09 am

Sheyd, no they were bred from a Deep Blue x Green CH Fallow. He has 3 Deep Greens /CH Fallow now.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:39 am

trabots wrote:Ron has just sent me images of a Deep Green with a Green, both 100% for sure. Kappa, I don't know what to say but your bird is significantly different.

SF Deep Green, Green
Image
I hate to be blunt, but whoever made the observation that the original deep green bird identified in the imported flock was barely a shade darker than the wildtype have a very different opinion of a shade to me. The way I understood it, it took acute powers of observation to identify the deep green from the other birds. The bird in this picture stands out like a sore eye. I am very very surprised at how dark this bird is.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by madas » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:06 am

Johan S wrote:
trabots wrote:Ron has just sent me images of a Deep Green with a Green, both 100% for sure. Kappa, I don't know what to say but your bird is significantly different.

SF Deep Green, Green
Image
I hate to be blunt, but whoever made the observation that the original deep green bird identified in the imported flock was barely a shade darker than the wildtype have a very different opinion of a shade to me. The way I understood it, it took acute powers of observation to identify the deep green from the other birds. The bird in this picture stands out like a sore eye. I am very very surprised at how dark this bird is.
Me too and i am not convinced it is a deep. So what about a pic with a deep green, dark green and a normal green???

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:30 am

Me too and i am not convinced it is a deep.
I am sick of this doubting. Read my lips, the bird was bred from a Deep. Ron is not a stunned mullet. I will tell him that he will not be believed until he puts it with a Dark Green also, he will probably say "tell them get mated". You wonder why he doesn't participate. You are referencing to 10th hand decades old information about the history of the original Deeps. Surely new photographic evidence supersedes the hearsay? Ron has the birds after all and therefore this evidence is 1st hand to me.

Bluntly I too am getting very worn out with all the crap being promulgated on this forum while ignoring the evidence. Some of you people are the avian equivalent of conspiracy geeks, always looking for an answer outside of reasonable analysis. Johan your blatant sarcasm on the other thread is what has put me over the top angry. I have been proved correct now in every topic I have carried out a running battle for, Pied rainbows, df Parblues, Deeps, %split of split x split offspring and now what every else already knew, Emerald IRNs are Parblues. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Stefan you are usually most reasonable and I am sorry this was your post that copped it. Johan you know where to stick those Deep feathers I sent you.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:07 am



First 2 rows of Ron's pictures show the deep greens & in another pic the dark green,
http://fabulousparrots.com.au/photos.cfm


Willy, a dark g. deep g. and green pic would be apropriate as reference photo just like the ones you have of parblues sf df etc..
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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by madas » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:26 am

trabots wrote:
Me too and i am not convinced it is a deep.
I am sick of this doubting. Read my lips, the bird was bred from a Deep. Ron is not a stunned mullet. I will tell him that he will not be believed until he puts it with a Dark Green also, he will probably say "tell them get mated". You wonder why he doesn't participate. You are referencing to 10th hand decades old information about the history of the original Deeps. Surely new photographic evidence supersedes the hearsay? Ron has the birds after all and therefore this evidence is 1st hand to me.

Bluntly I too am getting very worn out with all the crap being promulgated on this forum while ignoring the evidence. Some of you people are the avian equivalent of conspiracy geeks, always looking for an answer outside of reasonable analysis. Johan your blatant sarcasm on the other thread is what has put me over the top angry. I have been proved correct now in every topic I have carried out a running battle for, Pied rainbows, df Parblues, Deeps, %split of split x split offspring and now what every else already knew, Emerald IRNs are Parblues. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Stefan you are usually most reasonable and I am sorry this was your post that copped it. Johan you know where to stick those Deep feathers I sent you.
Hi Willy,

please calm down. :) I would say all "troublemakers" take a short time-out and think about the facts posted. And then come back with your conclusions. :D

regarding the pic: Willy can you tell us out of which pairing this deep green comes from? For me the bird is too dark to be a hetereozyguos deep green. Is it possible that the bird is a homozyguos one?
It is almost dark as a common violet green (not menaing it is one). Judging from the "blue series" birds you have posted i haven't expected a deep green could be dark as this bird.
So on this pic i can see two distinct deep green phenotypes (bottom left is darker then the one right beside):

Image

So is the left one a homozyguos? Could it be the same as in the pic you posted?

thx in advance.

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:38 am

Madas,

I think it's the same color all 3 birds.

Look at the feathers on the legs,
it must be the lighting and the fact that 1 chick has wings underneath him makes it look as if a diff color .

I'll pass all 3 birds being the same mutation.


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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Johan S » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:07 am

trabots wrote:
Me too and i am not convinced it is a deep.
I am sick of this doubting. Read my lips, the bird was bred from a Deep. Ron is not a stunned mullet. I will tell him that he will not be believed until he puts it with a Dark Green also, he will probably say "tell them get mated". You wonder why he doesn't participate. You are referencing to 10th hand decades old information about the history of the original Deeps. Surely new photographic evidence supersedes the hearsay? Ron has the birds after all and therefore this evidence is 1st hand to me.

Bluntly I too am getting very worn out with all the crap being promulgated on this forum while ignoring the evidence. Some of you people are the avian equivalent of conspiracy geeks, always looking for an answer outside of reasonable analysis. Johan your blatant sarcasm on the other thread is what has put me over the top angry. I have been proved correct now in every topic I have carried out a running battle for, Pied rainbows, df Parblues, Deeps, %split of split x split offspring and now what every else already knew, Emerald IRNs are Parblues. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Stefan you are usually most reasonable and I am sorry this was your post that copped it. Johan you know where to stick those Deep feathers I sent you.
Come now Willy, see it from my perspective as well. You sent me those feathers and I've been sticking my neck out in SA to defend your investigative work on deep. We may have our differences of opinion on other mutations, but I agree 100% with your approach to verify deep as a unique mutation. I will recall I have never questioned your method about deep. You wouldn't believe how much flack I have had to take because I don't want to adopt this whole SA deep thing. All of this based on your reports that the DF isn't mauve, nor violet, and that particular original 'hearsay' of a green deep being only ever so slightly darker than a wildtype and that you'd overlook it if you didn't look carefully. Your pictures all show that the deep blue is lighter than the dark blue. And you take great care to ensure that the effect is well shown. Now a picture is posted that looks darker than a dark green and in the same league as a violet green. Not to mention pretty much exactly like one of the local Nico Theunissen birds, where the same strange thing happens that blue series appears lighter than dark blue yet green series appears darker than dark green. Of course we're going to wonder what's going on. I'm willing to say that if an anonymous user posted that picture, you would have wondered as well.

I have no problem accepting this new knowledge that deep is actually much darker than originally reported. I have only just also learnt that deep changes colour as it ages and becomes darker. Also new to me. I'm just very surprised.

PS: The feathers didn't fit, so they are staying in my feather folder. :lol:

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Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:06 pm

He has 3 Deep Greens /CH Fallow now.

trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by trabots » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:33 pm

It is obvious that the image is too dark from the colour of the Deep Blue chicks. This looks more realistic.
Image

Kappa
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 12:02 am

Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:32 pm

Hi Willy,
Thanks for the new photos. My first thought was that its a deep dark green. Obviously a very dark green, more so than any deep I have seen. Clearly, some further investigation needs to be done by both parties. I still think that there might be something else at play with my deep.
Last edited by Kappa on Tue May 06, 2014 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kappa
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 12:02 am

Re: pictures of Deep and Dark Greens?

Post by Kappa » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:25 pm

Just an update on my deep green? Or misty?, maybe deep misty? Confused yet? I am. It has turned out to be very interesting. A green bird dark green tail and virtually no blue with pale head.
And brown nails.
Here, with wild type on left.
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