Fallow IRN

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Carr.birds
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Fallow IRN

Post by Carr.birds »

Hi Forum members

Attached please find pictures of a Fallow (Dun or Pale) IRN. It is close in phenotype to Bronze Fallow but tests with Nsl Ino proofed it not to be an allele of the a-locus. From Nsl Ino Cleartail & Blue Fallow(Dun) only normal green black eye babies hatched. From a second pair Dblue Fallow (Dun) & Nsl Ino/blue/cleartail 4 black eye babies hatched. (1 green, 2 blue and 1 dgreen) It is a grey-brown fallow and therefore should be placed in the Dun Fallow group. According to the definitions a Pale or Beige Fallow is light brown. I think the bird in question is to dark for a Pale Fallow.

Recio I hope this in the right section. I am struggling to add pictures.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Tienie Carr
Ring0Neck
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Ring0Neck »

Hi Tienie,
You need 10 posts before you can attach pictures.
You can email them to Recio or another member that you know and they can upload them for you.

The bird/s you want to show pictures of, are they on Chris's website? Because i can link the pictures here if it is.

Ben
madas
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by madas »

Carr.birds wrote:Hi Forum members

Attached please find pictures of a Fallow (Dun or Pale) IRN. It is close in phenotype to Bronze Fallow but tests with Nsl Ino proofed it not to be an allele of the a-locus. From Nsl Ino Cleartail & Blue Fallow(Dun) only normal green black eye babies hatched. From a second pair Dblue Fallow (Dun) & Nsl Ino/blue/cleartail 4 black eye babies hatched. (1 green, 2 blue and 1 dgreen) It is a grey-brown fallow and therefore should be placed in the Dun Fallow group. According to the definitions a Pale or Beige Fallow is light brown. I think the bird in question is to dark for a Pale Fallow.

Recio I hope this in the right section. I am struggling to add pictures.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Tienie Carr
Hi Tienie,

we had talked a lot about these birds. I will still wait some days to see if some other breeders are answering.
A small side note: If it is a "fallow" and non allelic to NSLino have you test breed it to a clear head fallow?

greetings.

madas

PS: The name could fit.
Johan S
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Johan S »

Hi Tienie and welcome to the forum! I always love a good fallow discussion. :D

I think it is a bit premature to start giving names before all the necessary experimental work has been completed. Testing this fallow to NSLino and showing no allelic interaction is excellent work and a great/interesting result, but isn't sufficient to show that the birds are something different from what we currently know as "bronze fallow". The latter is likely to be an incorrect name is well, but you can imagine what a mission it is going to be to have it changed. We will need much more data, like the pairings of "bronze fallow" x NSLino, "bronze fallow" x (dun?) fallow and also (dun?) fallow x CHF.

What I do like about this topic though, is that multiple fallow types exist and have been mixed and (mis)matched under the name "bronze fallow". It is important that people are aware of this and start paying attention to their fallows. Simply because a bird is a fallow, but not a CHF, doesn't automatically make it a bronze fallow. A good coverage of the fallow topic is done by Dirk van den Abeele. Link below for anybody with an interest in fallow types:

http://www.agapornis.be/artikels/fallow1.pdf
Recio
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Recio »

Hi everybody,

Here are the Tienie's pics. Sorry I could not post earlier.

NSL-ino Cleartail & Fallow (Dun)

[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]


Fallow (Dun)

[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]


Cobalt Fallow (Dun or Pale) & NSL-ino

[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]


Dark Blue Fallow (Dun or Pale)

[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]


Dark Blue Fallow (Dun or Pale)

[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]

Recio
Carr.birds
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 pm
Location: Bloemfontein South Africa

Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Carr.birds »

madas wrote:
Carr.birds wrote:Hi Forum members

Attached please find pictures of a Fallow (Dun or Pale) IRN. It is close in phenotype to Bronze Fallow but tests with Nsl Ino proofed it not to be an allele of the a-locus. From Nsl Ino Cleartail & Blue Fallow(Dun) only normal green black eye babies hatched. From a second pair Dblue Fallow (Dun) & Nsl Ino/blue/cleartail 4 black eye babies hatched. (1 green, 2 blue and 1 dgreen) It is a grey-brown fallow and therefore should be placed in the Dun Fallow group. According to the definitions a Pale or Beige Fallow is light brown. I think the bird in question is to dark for a Pale Fallow.

Recio I hope this in the right section. I am struggling to add pictures.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Tienie Carr
Hi Tienie,

we had talked a lot about these birds. I will still wait some days to see if some other breeders are answering.
A small side note: If it is a "fallow" and non allelic to NSLino have you test breed it to a clear head fallow?

greetings.

madas

PS: The name could fit.
Stefan

WE didn't test with Clearheaded Fallow yet, but in Clearheaded Fallow you also get 2 types. 1 with the typical Clearheaded Fallow eye (not visible iris ring) and a type 2 where the only difference is the visible iris ring.

Sorry I can't post pictures yet, but will mail it to you to post.

greetings

Tienie
Carr.birds
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:13 pm
Location: Bloemfontein South Africa

Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Carr.birds »

Ring0Neck wrote:Hi Tienie,
You need 10 posts before you can attach pictures.
You can email them to Recio or another member that you know and they can upload them for you.

The bird/s you want to show pictures of, are they on Chris's website? Because i can link the pictures here if it is.

Ben
Hi Ben

Thanks for the information and advice. I don't think all of them are on Chris's website. I mailed it to Recio and notice he did post it.

Tienie
madas
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by madas »

Here are some pics of Tienies two Clearhead Fallow types:

Image
Image
Image

madas
Ring0Neck
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Ring0Neck »

WE didn't test with Clearheaded Fallow yet, but in Clearheaded Fallow you also get 2 types. 1 with the typical Clearheaded Fallow eye (not visible iris ring) and a type 2 where the only difference is the visible iris ring.


Tienie,

I also have the Type 2 CHF. I know they are allelic as i have bred this grey youngster from pairing type 2 & type 1.



When it hatched it had red eyes - then it darken close to black at feldging, see diff of type 1 & 2 eyes. (the 2 young are from 2 diff pairs)
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/2bcups.jpg

Now you can see the eyes at times looking like this:

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/aDSCF0361.jpg

I also had a chf hen where at times you can see the iris and other times iris not visible.
I assume that this happends to offspring when you pair type 1 with t2 !?
What else is known about type 2?

Ben
Last edited by Ring0Neck on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Johan S
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Johan S »

madas wrote:Here are some pics of Tienies two Clearhead Fallow types:

Image

madas
This is a stunning bird.
Carr.birds
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Carr.birds »

Forum

What is the next step in naming this fallow mutation? Tests with Nsl Ino proofed no relationship with the a-locus. Any suggestions for further test breeding except Stefan’s question about clearheaded fallow.

Tienie
madas
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by madas »

Cleartail maybe? But as second alternative.
Johan S
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Johan S »

I would also be interested to see the relationship of this fallow type with the very "pale" type of fallow. And also with the fallow type sold as bronze fallow where the head dilution is minimal. Madas has a good picture of one with a ring and a greenish head.
madas
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by madas »

Johan S wrote:I would also be interested to see the relationship of this fallow type with the very "pale" type of fallow. And also with the fallow type sold as bronze fallow where the head dilution is minimal. Madas has a good picture of one with a ring and a greenish head.
Tada:

Image
Image

greetings.
Johan S
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Johan S »

That's the one! :D

Hard to believe that that very one is often confused with this type (the very "pale" type I was referring to). Mind you, this is supposed to be dark green at that, but I have some reservations.
Image
Carr.birds
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Carr.birds »

Stefan, Johan & Lee

The fallow I am referring to as “Dun” Fallow originated from a mother and son combination (dblue/fallow & dblue/fallow)

In 2012 a dblue “Dun” Fallow cock (HN) was paired to a blue/fallow from a different source (AA). The pair produced 3 fallow babies, but a blue “Dun” Fallow from source (AA) in combination with a violet blueturq/bronze fallow (Bastiaan line) also produced fallow babies. The results point towards the same fallow and it was tested with Nsl Ino to proof the relationship with the a-locus as mentioned in my previous post.

I don’t own other SA Fallow birds with lighter heads and therefore can’t test the relationship with our “Dun“ Fallow. I do however own a dg/blue/fallow that was bred from the lighter phenotype. This dg/blue/fallow cock paired to a blue/”dun” fallow (AA) produced a fallow baby in 2009. This must also then be the same fallow.

Stefan in a second pairing my Nsl Ino Cleartail cock and blue “Dun” Fallow source (AA) produced 2 normal green black eye babies. Therefore test with cleartail indicated no link.

I will test my Bronze Fallow/blue (Bastiaan) cock with a Nsl Ino hen in 2013 to determine if Bronze Fallow really exist, but I have my doubts.

I suggest that other SA breeders who own lighter phenotype Fallow birds test breed them with Clearheaded Fallow. In my opinion the lighter phenotype can be a combination of Clearheaded Fallow and “Dun” Fallow.

Stefan I will mail a picture to you of a Clearheaded Fallow "Dun" Fallow combo.

Tienie
madas
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by madas »

Carr.birds wrote: I will test my Bronze Fallow/blue (Bastiaan) cock with a Nsl Ino hen in 2013 to determine if Bronze Fallow really exist, but I have my doubts.
So then it is still possible that cleartail and NSLino could be alleles of the same locus and then the whole green offspring from cleartail x bronze fallow
makes sence. But only if the bronze fallow which was used is the same like yours. :D

madas
Carr.birds
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Carr.birds »

Stefan

I know you are referring to Wynand's outcome, but remember my original NSL Ino not related to cleartail when paired to a blue cleartail/nsl ino produced both green and nsl ino babies in 2008. The green birds from this pair proofed that they are not allele of the same locus. (a-locus)

Wynand tried to proof a point in ? 2010 but at that stage he was unsure that his birds were fallows not to mention if they were bronze fallow. He only very recently produced cocks from split fallow to split fallow and most of his line are from the Jacobs family (same as my dg/blue/fallow) cock.

Tienie
Carr.birds
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Re: Fallow IRN

Post by Carr.birds »

Stefan, Recio, Johan ............

What is the next step to name this mutation? or do we use *Dun fallow* like the lovebird breeders until it the name is excepted by .....?

Tienie
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