Fallow IRN
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Fallow IRN
Hi Forum members
Attached please find pictures of a Fallow (Dun or Pale) IRN. It is close in phenotype to Bronze Fallow but tests with Nsl Ino proofed it not to be an allele of the a-locus. From Nsl Ino Cleartail & Blue Fallow(Dun) only normal green black eye babies hatched. From a second pair Dblue Fallow (Dun) & Nsl Ino/blue/cleartail 4 black eye babies hatched. (1 green, 2 blue and 1 dgreen) It is a grey-brown fallow and therefore should be placed in the Dun Fallow group. According to the definitions a Pale or Beige Fallow is light brown. I think the bird in question is to dark for a Pale Fallow.
Recio I hope this in the right section. I am struggling to add pictures.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Tienie Carr
Attached please find pictures of a Fallow (Dun or Pale) IRN. It is close in phenotype to Bronze Fallow but tests with Nsl Ino proofed it not to be an allele of the a-locus. From Nsl Ino Cleartail & Blue Fallow(Dun) only normal green black eye babies hatched. From a second pair Dblue Fallow (Dun) & Nsl Ino/blue/cleartail 4 black eye babies hatched. (1 green, 2 blue and 1 dgreen) It is a grey-brown fallow and therefore should be placed in the Dun Fallow group. According to the definitions a Pale or Beige Fallow is light brown. I think the bird in question is to dark for a Pale Fallow.
Recio I hope this in the right section. I am struggling to add pictures.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Tienie Carr
Re: Fallow IRN
Hi Tienie,
You need 10 posts before you can attach pictures.
You can email them to Recio or another member that you know and they can upload them for you.
The bird/s you want to show pictures of, are they on Chris's website? Because i can link the pictures here if it is.
Ben
You need 10 posts before you can attach pictures.
You can email them to Recio or another member that you know and they can upload them for you.
The bird/s you want to show pictures of, are they on Chris's website? Because i can link the pictures here if it is.
Ben
Re: Fallow IRN
Hi Tienie,Carr.birds wrote:Hi Forum members
Attached please find pictures of a Fallow (Dun or Pale) IRN. It is close in phenotype to Bronze Fallow but tests with Nsl Ino proofed it not to be an allele of the a-locus. From Nsl Ino Cleartail & Blue Fallow(Dun) only normal green black eye babies hatched. From a second pair Dblue Fallow (Dun) & Nsl Ino/blue/cleartail 4 black eye babies hatched. (1 green, 2 blue and 1 dgreen) It is a grey-brown fallow and therefore should be placed in the Dun Fallow group. According to the definitions a Pale or Beige Fallow is light brown. I think the bird in question is to dark for a Pale Fallow.
Recio I hope this in the right section. I am struggling to add pictures.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Tienie Carr
we had talked a lot about these birds. I will still wait some days to see if some other breeders are answering.
A small side note: If it is a "fallow" and non allelic to NSLino have you test breed it to a clear head fallow?
greetings.
madas
PS: The name could fit.
Re: Fallow IRN
Hi Tienie and welcome to the forum! I always love a good fallow discussion.
I think it is a bit premature to start giving names before all the necessary experimental work has been completed. Testing this fallow to NSLino and showing no allelic interaction is excellent work and a great/interesting result, but isn't sufficient to show that the birds are something different from what we currently know as "bronze fallow". The latter is likely to be an incorrect name is well, but you can imagine what a mission it is going to be to have it changed. We will need much more data, like the pairings of "bronze fallow" x NSLino, "bronze fallow" x (dun?) fallow and also (dun?) fallow x CHF.
What I do like about this topic though, is that multiple fallow types exist and have been mixed and (mis)matched under the name "bronze fallow". It is important that people are aware of this and start paying attention to their fallows. Simply because a bird is a fallow, but not a CHF, doesn't automatically make it a bronze fallow. A good coverage of the fallow topic is done by Dirk van den Abeele. Link below for anybody with an interest in fallow types:
http://www.agapornis.be/artikels/fallow1.pdf
I think it is a bit premature to start giving names before all the necessary experimental work has been completed. Testing this fallow to NSLino and showing no allelic interaction is excellent work and a great/interesting result, but isn't sufficient to show that the birds are something different from what we currently know as "bronze fallow". The latter is likely to be an incorrect name is well, but you can imagine what a mission it is going to be to have it changed. We will need much more data, like the pairings of "bronze fallow" x NSLino, "bronze fallow" x (dun?) fallow and also (dun?) fallow x CHF.
What I do like about this topic though, is that multiple fallow types exist and have been mixed and (mis)matched under the name "bronze fallow". It is important that people are aware of this and start paying attention to their fallows. Simply because a bird is a fallow, but not a CHF, doesn't automatically make it a bronze fallow. A good coverage of the fallow topic is done by Dirk van den Abeele. Link below for anybody with an interest in fallow types:
http://www.agapornis.be/artikels/fallow1.pdf
Re: Fallow IRN
Hi everybody,
Here are the Tienie's pics. Sorry I could not post earlier.
NSL-ino Cleartail & Fallow (Dun)
[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Fallow (Dun)
[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Cobalt Fallow (Dun or Pale) & NSL-ino
[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Dark Blue Fallow (Dun or Pale)
[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Dark Blue Fallow (Dun or Pale)
[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Recio
Here are the Tienie's pics. Sorry I could not post earlier.
NSL-ino Cleartail & Fallow (Dun)
[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Fallow (Dun)
[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Cobalt Fallow (Dun or Pale) & NSL-ino
[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Dark Blue Fallow (Dun or Pale)
[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Dark Blue Fallow (Dun or Pale)
[img]http://i1298.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]
Recio
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Re: Fallow IRN
Stefanmadas wrote:Hi Tienie,Carr.birds wrote:Hi Forum members
Attached please find pictures of a Fallow (Dun or Pale) IRN. It is close in phenotype to Bronze Fallow but tests with Nsl Ino proofed it not to be an allele of the a-locus. From Nsl Ino Cleartail & Blue Fallow(Dun) only normal green black eye babies hatched. From a second pair Dblue Fallow (Dun) & Nsl Ino/blue/cleartail 4 black eye babies hatched. (1 green, 2 blue and 1 dgreen) It is a grey-brown fallow and therefore should be placed in the Dun Fallow group. According to the definitions a Pale or Beige Fallow is light brown. I think the bird in question is to dark for a Pale Fallow.
Recio I hope this in the right section. I am struggling to add pictures.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Tienie Carr
we had talked a lot about these birds. I will still wait some days to see if some other breeders are answering.
A small side note: If it is a "fallow" and non allelic to NSLino have you test breed it to a clear head fallow?
greetings.
madas
PS: The name could fit.
WE didn't test with Clearheaded Fallow yet, but in Clearheaded Fallow you also get 2 types. 1 with the typical Clearheaded Fallow eye (not visible iris ring) and a type 2 where the only difference is the visible iris ring.
Sorry I can't post pictures yet, but will mail it to you to post.
greetings
Tienie
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Re: Fallow IRN
Hi BenRing0Neck wrote:Hi Tienie,
You need 10 posts before you can attach pictures.
You can email them to Recio or another member that you know and they can upload them for you.
The bird/s you want to show pictures of, are they on Chris's website? Because i can link the pictures here if it is.
Ben
Thanks for the information and advice. I don't think all of them are on Chris's website. I mailed it to Recio and notice he did post it.
Tienie
Re: Fallow IRN
Here are some pics of Tienies two Clearhead Fallow types:
madas
madas
Re: Fallow IRN
WE didn't test with Clearheaded Fallow yet, but in Clearheaded Fallow you also get 2 types. 1 with the typical Clearheaded Fallow eye (not visible iris ring) and a type 2 where the only difference is the visible iris ring.
Tienie,
I also have the Type 2 CHF. I know they are allelic as i have bred this grey youngster from pairing type 2 & type 1.
When it hatched it had red eyes - then it darken close to black at feldging, see diff of type 1 & 2 eyes. (the 2 young are from 2 diff pairs)
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/2bcups.jpg
Now you can see the eyes at times looking like this:
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/aDSCF0361.jpg
I also had a chf hen where at times you can see the iris and other times iris not visible.
I assume that this happends to offspring when you pair type 1 with t2 !?
What else is known about type 2?
Ben
Last edited by Ring0Neck on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Fallow IRN
This is a stunning bird.madas wrote:Here are some pics of Tienies two Clearhead Fallow types:
madas
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Re: Fallow IRN
Forum
What is the next step in naming this fallow mutation? Tests with Nsl Ino proofed no relationship with the a-locus. Any suggestions for further test breeding except Stefan’s question about clearheaded fallow.
Tienie
What is the next step in naming this fallow mutation? Tests with Nsl Ino proofed no relationship with the a-locus. Any suggestions for further test breeding except Stefan’s question about clearheaded fallow.
Tienie
Re: Fallow IRN
Cleartail maybe? But as second alternative.
Re: Fallow IRN
I would also be interested to see the relationship of this fallow type with the very "pale" type of fallow. And also with the fallow type sold as bronze fallow where the head dilution is minimal. Madas has a good picture of one with a ring and a greenish head.
Re: Fallow IRN
Tada:Johan S wrote:I would also be interested to see the relationship of this fallow type with the very "pale" type of fallow. And also with the fallow type sold as bronze fallow where the head dilution is minimal. Madas has a good picture of one with a ring and a greenish head.
greetings.
Re: Fallow IRN
That's the one!
Hard to believe that that very one is often confused with this type (the very "pale" type I was referring to). Mind you, this is supposed to be dark green at that, but I have some reservations.
Hard to believe that that very one is often confused with this type (the very "pale" type I was referring to). Mind you, this is supposed to be dark green at that, but I have some reservations.
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Re: Fallow IRN
Stefan, Johan & Lee
The fallow I am referring to as “Dun” Fallow originated from a mother and son combination (dblue/fallow & dblue/fallow)
In 2012 a dblue “Dun” Fallow cock (HN) was paired to a blue/fallow from a different source (AA). The pair produced 3 fallow babies, but a blue “Dun” Fallow from source (AA) in combination with a violet blueturq/bronze fallow (Bastiaan line) also produced fallow babies. The results point towards the same fallow and it was tested with Nsl Ino to proof the relationship with the a-locus as mentioned in my previous post.
I don’t own other SA Fallow birds with lighter heads and therefore can’t test the relationship with our “Dun“ Fallow. I do however own a dg/blue/fallow that was bred from the lighter phenotype. This dg/blue/fallow cock paired to a blue/”dun” fallow (AA) produced a fallow baby in 2009. This must also then be the same fallow.
Stefan in a second pairing my Nsl Ino Cleartail cock and blue “Dun” Fallow source (AA) produced 2 normal green black eye babies. Therefore test with cleartail indicated no link.
I will test my Bronze Fallow/blue (Bastiaan) cock with a Nsl Ino hen in 2013 to determine if Bronze Fallow really exist, but I have my doubts.
I suggest that other SA breeders who own lighter phenotype Fallow birds test breed them with Clearheaded Fallow. In my opinion the lighter phenotype can be a combination of Clearheaded Fallow and “Dun” Fallow.
Stefan I will mail a picture to you of a Clearheaded Fallow "Dun" Fallow combo.
Tienie
The fallow I am referring to as “Dun” Fallow originated from a mother and son combination (dblue/fallow & dblue/fallow)
In 2012 a dblue “Dun” Fallow cock (HN) was paired to a blue/fallow from a different source (AA). The pair produced 3 fallow babies, but a blue “Dun” Fallow from source (AA) in combination with a violet blueturq/bronze fallow (Bastiaan line) also produced fallow babies. The results point towards the same fallow and it was tested with Nsl Ino to proof the relationship with the a-locus as mentioned in my previous post.
I don’t own other SA Fallow birds with lighter heads and therefore can’t test the relationship with our “Dun“ Fallow. I do however own a dg/blue/fallow that was bred from the lighter phenotype. This dg/blue/fallow cock paired to a blue/”dun” fallow (AA) produced a fallow baby in 2009. This must also then be the same fallow.
Stefan in a second pairing my Nsl Ino Cleartail cock and blue “Dun” Fallow source (AA) produced 2 normal green black eye babies. Therefore test with cleartail indicated no link.
I will test my Bronze Fallow/blue (Bastiaan) cock with a Nsl Ino hen in 2013 to determine if Bronze Fallow really exist, but I have my doubts.
I suggest that other SA breeders who own lighter phenotype Fallow birds test breed them with Clearheaded Fallow. In my opinion the lighter phenotype can be a combination of Clearheaded Fallow and “Dun” Fallow.
Stefan I will mail a picture to you of a Clearheaded Fallow "Dun" Fallow combo.
Tienie
Re: Fallow IRN
So then it is still possible that cleartail and NSLino could be alleles of the same locus and then the whole green offspring from cleartail x bronze fallowCarr.birds wrote: I will test my Bronze Fallow/blue (Bastiaan) cock with a Nsl Ino hen in 2013 to determine if Bronze Fallow really exist, but I have my doubts.
makes sence. But only if the bronze fallow which was used is the same like yours.
madas
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Re: Fallow IRN
Stefan
I know you are referring to Wynand's outcome, but remember my original NSL Ino not related to cleartail when paired to a blue cleartail/nsl ino produced both green and nsl ino babies in 2008. The green birds from this pair proofed that they are not allele of the same locus. (a-locus)
Wynand tried to proof a point in ? 2010 but at that stage he was unsure that his birds were fallows not to mention if they were bronze fallow. He only very recently produced cocks from split fallow to split fallow and most of his line are from the Jacobs family (same as my dg/blue/fallow) cock.
Tienie
I know you are referring to Wynand's outcome, but remember my original NSL Ino not related to cleartail when paired to a blue cleartail/nsl ino produced both green and nsl ino babies in 2008. The green birds from this pair proofed that they are not allele of the same locus. (a-locus)
Wynand tried to proof a point in ? 2010 but at that stage he was unsure that his birds were fallows not to mention if they were bronze fallow. He only very recently produced cocks from split fallow to split fallow and most of his line are from the Jacobs family (same as my dg/blue/fallow) cock.
Tienie
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Re: Fallow IRN
Stefan, Recio, Johan ............
What is the next step to name this mutation? or do we use *Dun fallow* like the lovebird breeders until it the name is excepted by .....?
Tienie
What is the next step to name this mutation? or do we use *Dun fallow* like the lovebird breeders until it the name is excepted by .....?
Tienie