Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

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Janlp
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:38 am

Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by Janlp »

Hi,

I'm new to this message board but was hoping to find some answers.
I recently purchased what I believed to be a lutino IRN hen (her father was lutino, her mum albino) for my son as a pet. The following day I noticed that her (?) iris' were clearly blue. Having had a true lutino IRN myself many years ago I was of the belief that they were supposed to be red. I called the breeder seeking clarification, who says that she has had lutinos with both red and blue eyes and believes it to be normal.

Can anyone please enlighten me on this subject?
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by sheyd »

The only red eyed one's I've seen have been with a camera flash or new chicks...I'd love to see a macro shot of a mature red eyed Lutino (obviously without the flash).

So, yeah- only seen blue eyes on them. :)

edited to add- your bird could be of either sex and unless you dna there's no way to tell until it either gets a ring or doesn't. Also, your bird is split for Blue :)
king kong
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by king kong »

Hi
@Janlp & Chocobo
can u share the picture of such birds it would be interesting for new comers like me for learning process
regards
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by sheyd »

I don't have a Lutino to take pics of- perhaps another member would like to?

Anyhow- here are a few (:
One in this thread: http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... een#p88421
Nother' one: http://www.fluffies.org/your-own-parrot ... ngneck.htm
Again: http://www.flyinggems.com/Mediumbirds/Ringneck.htm
king kong
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by king kong »

HI
thnks Chocobo for the share but now u throw me in another ocean of thoughts :twisted: as i saw a new bird White with red shade at 4th page of the upper mentioned thread :evil:
it is completely new insane bird for me :shock: making me MAD as i have no f---- idea for it
plz share ifo about it if u have :oops:
w8 madly :idea:
regrads
madas
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Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by madas »

Here is a head pic of a lutino male:

Image

All lutinos show red eyes but only if you shine directly into the eye.
And i have never seen a IRN with a blue iris. The iris is always white but some mutation show a kind of translucent iris which then in combination with the background color of the eye seems to look in a bluish color. Here is an example:

Image

greetings.
Recio
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:09 am
Location: France

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by Recio »

Hi Madas,

Great pics allowing to make some commets:

1. Look at the yellow colour of the lutino head and the yellow of the body: You can notice how different they are, with an increased intensity and brightness in the head, matching the fluorescent psittacin, and following a concentration gradient with a maximal around the bill.

2. If you look at the blue series bird on the second pic you will notice the black feathers between the eyes and the bill, and also above the bill hidding the nostrils. The lutino mutation is supossed to only eliminate melanin synthesis but in the first pic we can see that the lutino cock is also lacking the black feathers. It is not that the feathers are white but simply they have disapeared, and we can directly see the nostrils and the nacked skin between the eyes and the bill.
What all this means? I guess that there is a close interaction between feathers growth and melanin production/deposition with something like a trophic action regulated by sexual steroids (only sexual depending feathers are affected in the head).

In the "the book" post I was refering to a probable specific feather structure in the head of IRN allowing for a local control of pigments deposition. Here we can also see that that the production of a pigment (melanin) is necessary for a correct growth of feathers. All together it points to a mutual interdependence of structure and pigments for a correct feather developement. We should look for changes in feather structure whenever a pigment mutation is present .... and also for changes in pigment production in primary structural mutations. Let's keep in mind that, if presents, those would be minor changes appearing in the context of the typical features of the considered mutation (Ex. the lack of the tiny feathers in the nostrils of lutino males). Could this be also the case of the yellow colour present in young Deeps? Of course this is just an idea ...

Regards

Recio
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by sheyd »

thanks for the pics Madas :)

They still both look blue to me *ducks and runs* what I find interesting is the intensity of the Blue cock's colour- the iris appears very dark- was this pic taken inside? (it's hard to tell because the background has been edited out)

Blue eyes as I understand it, have little Melanin (the more Melanin- the darker the eye) and can reflect the light or objects around them (Rayleigh Scattering) -making the eyes appear different shades (of blue or even another colour) in different lights/surroundings.

When someone says "red eyes" I think of red/pink irides and a pink/red tinge to the pupil. (like red eyed albino humans) perhaps we should say that they (Albino's Lutino's Pallids Cinnamons ect) have reddish pupils when a light is shone into rather than they have strictly "red eyes" -which to me is rather untrue (apart from when they're a few weeks old)?
sheyd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by sheyd »

My birds taken outside in their shaded aviary.

Colour in these first two pics is fairly accurate of actual colour-
Image

Image
same bird- different angle- note how it changes the colour of the iris-
Image
prodigy
Posts: 341
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:52 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by prodigy »

Hi Recio,

Very interesting observation/comment about the "naked skin between the eyes and the bill" and then the yellow pigment in the deeps.

I have noticed naked skin between the eyes and the bill on some young deeps as well.

Has anyone else made this observation as well ?

Regards,

Peter
prodigy
Posts: 341
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:52 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by prodigy »

Image
Recio
Posts: 966
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Location: France

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by Recio »

Hi Peter,

In your "red" bird we can see the naked skin with higher extention: between the eyes and the bill, around the nostrils and also around the eye. So ... more psittacins are expressed ... more naked skin in hormone dependent areas of the head we can see.

It would be really interesting to see how it looks in a DF dom pied adult male: if it shows an increased naked skin in those specific areas it would add consistency to the idea that melanocytes (in a process coupled to melanin production/deposition) could have a trophic effect on feather growth of sex hormone dependant feather areas.

Regards

Recio
prodigy
Posts: 341
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:52 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Lutino IRN with blue iris'!

Post by prodigy »

Hi Recio,

My Efforts to get Dominant Pied's in the numbers that i require for the breeding program have been in vain, due to the South African government placing a ban on the importation of birds from Australia.

And I am obviously not going to pay the completely crazy prices that the South African breeders are are asking for the initial stock they got from Chris and Babu and that have now in produced local stock of the dominant pied's at almost 300% the cost of the sell price of the birds in Australia.

I do however agree that the DF Dominant Pied (red) would be very interesting to see, so anyone in South Africa that would like to donate dominant pied's to the program in exchange for half the chicks produced, feel free to PM me ;-)

Regards,

Peter
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