turquoise, which is correct?

[pizzaguru]

I'm confused, in the Bastiaan book putting two turquoise together it says you get blue, turquoise blue and turquoise, but on the genetics calc you would only get turquoise? anybody know which is correct?

[Ring0Neck]

The book is correct.
In gen calc to choose a Turquoise Blue you tick:
Turquoise and also split blue.
That will give you the correct offspring.

Cheers
Ben

[pizzaguru]

Ok, I'm even more confused, so there is no regular turquoise, its always classed as a blue turquoise? is that correct? on the gen calc it lets you put in just turquoise as well as turquoise blue

[Ring0Neck]

there is a Turquoise.
Correct naming is: homozygous Turquoise. (sometimes called DF Turquoise)
This type of bird will give you 100% TurquoiseBlue when paired to any blue bird as it is dominant over blue, not so for Green.

Homozygous Turq. are quiet rare as most breeders pair Turquoise to Blue birds.
I am starting a line of homozygous Turq. for my breeding program.

Ben

[pizzaguru]

Thanks Ben, understand that part of it now, so would a turquoise show any blue on its body at all? I did a search for a pic and all i can see are what seems like blue turquoise, unless I'm looking at this all wrong

[Ring0Neck]

Recio is an expert in Turquoise and he could explain better.

i'll use HT for :homozygous Turquoise

HT Turquoise are normally greener but yes a HT can look like a Turq.Blue but in time you learn to identify them and also through breeding results being the confirmation.

[Johan S]

I am starting a line of homozygous Turq. for my breeding program.

Ben

Hi Ben, we have two proven homozygous turquoise birds and I can honestly say that I've not run into a situation where it was really worth having them over heterozygous birds. It is actually a bit of a mission and time consuming to develop them from heterozygous birds, and (at least here) there isn't really a demand for them over.

[Ring0Neck]

Hi Johan,

My line i want to develop are df violet homozygous turquoise.
Harlequin pieds are a great example. Having a homozygous turquoise to say blue pied you're sure to get your turq. violet pied, which in my opinion are by far a nicer bird then just a violet harlequin.
Turq is sought after in pretty much any mutation, one sure way to do it is with homozygous turquoise.

I love the Turq mutation.

Can one do without homozygous turquoise? sure. as you said rarely needed, it is just a line i want.

Ben

[Johan S]

You see Ben, I will make my point in another way.

You have made a point relative to your preference, so I will do it relative to mine. I think breeding turquoise into violet mostly spoils the effect of violet. Indigo is another matter, but a turquoise violet to me isn't nearly as good looking as a violet blue and an indigoblue violet. Also, you mention harlequins, and the closest I can get to that is ADM pied. Ironically, our homozygous turquoise birds are in our pied line, and I can assure you that I have at least three times as many inquiries about normal blue series pieds when compared to turquoise pieds. Over here pieds without turquoise is much more popular.

The point is: Taste differs. And the heterozygous bird allows the wider variety of offspring. Thus, the question is, are you breeding for yourself and ensuring offspring that you like, or are you breeding to supply birds to other breeders (some of whom don't share your excitement for turquoise). There isn't a right/wrong answer, both are 100% by me! I try to balance the two.

Edit: I only now noticed, you did answer above question. If you want them, breed them!

[Ring0Neck]

It is indeed this particular bloodline very appealing to me. more so then most.
I am a Libra and i like to balance things also but "I" is always first and always wins... even against almighty "$"
As you say: "Selective breeding", we choose what we like.

Passion & Experimental is the Theme for my next season !

Ben

[pizzaguru]

What would I get if I paired a male turquoise and a female creamino

[trabots]

This thread is full of examples of various posters using 'Turquoise' when they mean TurquoiseBlue. This could be fixed by the use of df Turquoise when we mean homozygous Turquoise. Not correct according to the Terry Martins of this world however just using Turquoise for the homozygous bird always leads to confusion.

A df Turquoise when fully mature is easily identified from a TurquoiseBlue. They are similar when young. The same goes for the df Indigo being easy to identify from an IndigoBlue. http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s54 ... 4431[url] http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s54 ... 1354744523[/url]

[trabots]

sorry but this dumb engineer has forgotten how to make the images appear

[trabots]

[trabots]

So what am I doing wrong? The pics are now shrunk.

[Ring0Neck]

Thanks Willy for the information.
As far as the pics they look shrank in photobucket.
Perhaps you need to use a different link they give you in photobucket.

[pizzaguru]

So the two in the bottom, are they both turquoise blue? sorry I'm just getting started and learning as I go. How do you identify the difference between the turquoise blue and the df turquoise in adults.

Thanks
Mike

[trabots]

The other problem I have is getting the labels that are on the pics to transfer across from photobucket.

The bottom image shows clearly the difference between a df Turquoise on left and a TurquoiseBlue

The top image has the df Indigo on the right and the IndigoBlue on the left

[Ring0Neck]

The other problem I have is getting the labels that are on the pics to transfer across from photobucket.

I'm pretty sure labels will not come across.

I used the link direct to photobucket you have in earlier thread and does not contain a label.
I think photobucket gives you multiple url-link types, perhaps some of the others will?

[trabots]

If these images do not appear on this post could someone again spell out how to embed images in posts? Cheers.

[trabots]

Now for the image labels:

df Turquoise, TurquoiseBlue


IndigoBlue, df Indigo

[pizzaguru]

Thank you Trabots, I can definately see the difference in those pics, so is it safe to say that the df turquoise would have alot more of the green than blue in the chest, compared to the blue turquoise? Noticed the eyes are different, are all blue turquoise like that? excuse me if I don't use the right teminology, but I'm hoping to understand it one day.

[trabots]

So far in Turquoise, Indigo and Emerald IRNs the df Parblue or homozygous has increased psittacin over the ParblueBlue or heterozygous. The df Indigo even has some red in the ring indicating increased psittacin pigments while the IndigoBlue has a white ring.

[Johan S]

The other problem I have is getting the labels that are on the pics to transfer across from photobucket.

The bottom image shows clearly the difference between a df Turquoise on left and a TurquoiseBlue

The top image has the df Indigo on the right and the IndigoBlue on the left

Hi Willy, the labels will not transfer. Also, you don't have to use the "Submit" button immediately. If you want to test how your response will look, first press the "Preview" button next to the submit button.

[pizzaguru]

Looking at those pics, and comparing colours, the indigoblue is a beautiful bird, I live in Canada and have never seen one here, could there be another name for that mutation? It seems some names very alittle from country to country

Mike

[trabots]

The name Indigo was coined I believe by Babu. It has no relation to the colour of the bird. Despite my pleading with the proponents of the International Naming System, none of the gurus would propose an alternate better name. So we are stuck with the name which is no bad thing because there is no other name being used to cause confusion.

[willowisp71]

So, just to get my head around this Indigo, business....what are the components that need to be present for an Indigo? As in:

Mauve = blue + double factor Dark
Cobalt = blue + single factor Dark
Violet Turq. = Turquoise(parblue) + single factor Violet

etc, etc, etc

Can someone show me what Indigo is made up of, please? Cheers

Edit: Oops I probably wrote that wrong......

Mauve = Blue + double Dark factor = DD Blue, likewise with Cobalt, if you see what I mean?

[trabots]

Indigo is another Parblue mutation so it works exactly like Turquoise.

[willowisp71]

Ah! Thanks Willy.

So if you had an Indigo bird, you would simply enter it as a turquoise(parblue) into the calculator, but mentally change the name to Indigo for working out the outcomes etc?

Has it not yet been recognised or added to such references as the site,
http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/ ... rameri.htm,
or Bastiaan's book on mutations? (I haven't got this book yet, but it's on my xmas wishlist )

[trabots]

At the time the latest Bastiaan book was published he declared that TurquoiseBlues and df Turquoise were not different. That Turquoise moniker also included what we now know as IndigoBlues. As I and others have clearly shown, the df Turquoise is a different phenotype to TurquoiseBlue and df Indigo is different to IndigoBlue. The homozygous comparisons confirmed they were in fact different Parblue mutations. Yes just use Gencalc normally when substituting Turquoise for Indigo.

[Johan S]

Looking at those pics, and comparing colours, the indigoblue is a beautiful bird, I live in Canada and have never seen one here, could there be another name for that mutation? It seems some names very alittle from country to country

Mike

You will probably know indigo as turquoise, or the incorrect older name pastel. When looking at turquoise birds, look for those that display much less green. Those will be your indigo candidates.

[pizzaguru]

Excellant that clears that up, thank you. I know the aqua or emerald are also part of the turquoise mutation, but is it then a totaly different mutation, than the regular turquoise, not sure if that makes sense or not???

[trabots]

Emerald or 'Aqua' is a different mutation to Turquoise or Indigo. It has always been assumed that it is a Parblue like the other two. This latter point has never been actually proven however it doesn't change visible breeding outcomes in Blue series either way.