Feathers

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Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:46 pm

I good place to post pics of Feathers of Ringnecks.

These are some feathers i collected from the aviary floor this morning.



large file, click on the pic once open to zoom in.
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/IMG_3000.JPG

Feel free to post any feathers in this thread.

Ben
Last edited by Ring0Neck on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Feathers

Post by Johan S » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:21 am

Should one use single or double ply "white gold" as background? Sorry Ben, couldn't resist asking! :lol:

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:11 am

When you saw the title you thought... "wow this should be interesting" ....
that hope quickly diminished :D

* Sometimes i amaze myself the next day when i read what i came up with... other times i look for the delete button :D


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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:42 am

A collection of feathers - Note: No Blue feathers in this lot.


http://parakeet.me/irn/f/featherz.jpg

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Re: Feathers

Post by trabots » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:53 am

Feathers are useless without other reference feathers.

[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:30 am

Great reference - Thanks

I have done them in Hue/Sat sys. for fun -

My pic: (not all feathers are from tail or primary tail)
http://parakeet.me/irn/f/featherzredz.jpg

Willy's reference set:

Image

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:25 pm

wow! thanks for posting these (:

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Re: Feathers

Post by Johan S » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:10 am

This is such an important topic that I decided to make some time to post our perspective on the structural mutations.

From left to right:
Blue - SF Deep - SF Dark - SF Violet - DF Violet - SF Dark SF Violet - SF Dark DF Violet - DF Dark

Image

Enjoy and hope it helps put things in perspective. Now I just need to work on a collection of deep birds. :D

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Re: Feathers

Post by prodigy » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:24 am

Johan's reference set

Thanks Guys !

Image

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:00 pm




Thanks Johan, Great work.
Peter,
Johan's pic is a tad hazy/foggy so in these instances use the Auto-Level to clear the pic.
On my screen it makes more sense after clearing the pic.
Results below:
Johan's pic auto-leveled & hue-sat at 154-150
Image

Image

83IV

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Re: Feathers

Post by trabots » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:17 pm

Johan's pic is a tad hazy/foggy so in these instances use the Auto-Level to clear the pic.
The problem is that it also changed (darkened) the colours dramatically from the original and so are not nearly representative of what we see in the flesh.

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:29 pm



Good point ....Hmmm
It also has to do a lot with each individual screen settings.
Although darker, to me mauve looks more realistic after auto-level.

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Re: Feathers

Post by Johan S » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:21 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:


Thanks Johan, Great work.
Peter,
Johan's pic is a tad hazy/foggy so in these instances use the Auto-Level to clear the pic.
On my screen it makes more sense after clearing the pic.
Results below:
Johan's pic auto-leveled & hue-sat at 154-150

83IV
Thanks for the labels, Ben. I agree with Willy that the colours are a bit too bright. I'll experiment some more. The pick was taken at a bright, indoor spot. If weather permits, I'll take the setup outside this afternoon after work.

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Re: Feathers

Post by trabots » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:18 am

If all images had a known background, images from different sources could be directly compared. One can then adjust the brightness of a sent image so that the colour matches that of your sample. All other colours in the image will then be comparable to any other image which has the same background. Photographers use a neutral light grey colour in this regard. It is basically about changing the aperture in arrears. I use a 1.8m high tin shed with a clear roof, a wall painted grey and a hole in the opposite wall for your camera.


[img]http://i1305.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]

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Re: Feathers

Post by prodigy » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:53 am

Hi Willy,

Are you able to get a pic of the tips (the end of the feathers) of you sample set please?

Regards,

Peter

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Re: Feathers

Post by trabots » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:05 pm

Hi Peter, I am sorry about the missing tips, I was disappointed also. Until I next catch them up I don't have the tips. There was nothing unusual about them however.

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Re: Feathers

Post by prodigy » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:26 pm

Thanks Willy you'r Star

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:45 pm

Blue(left) vs Wildtype(right)

Image
Image
Image

(Wildtype on top of Blue)

Image

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Re: Feathers

Post by trabots » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:04 pm

My tail feather collection proved invaluable when identifying my young structural mutants while taking blood for sexing. I always pull the breeders' primary tail feathers after their young wean when I catch them up to put into the big summer flight. That is why the tips are sometimes missing, they are ready to moult in any event.

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:56 am

Would the young's tails color match adult's ?
also, given that the adult's tail is old, sun bleached feather IDing is still fairly accurate?

Can we conclude that although a bird's body color could darken to adulthood, its tail color remains very much the same or very insignificant change?, correct?



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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:39 am

Blue 3rd & 4th from the bottom- unconfirmed, but suspect dfViolet, sfDark for the first top 2, and dfViolet or sfViolet, sfDark for the first, 2nd, 5th & 6th from the bottom.
Image

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:15 pm

This topic isn't really getting much action-- tail feather comparisons I'd like to see would be: sfViolet Green vs sfViolet Blue--- sf/dfDark Green vs sf/dfDark Blue--- TurquoiseBlue vs Wildtype, Blue, Indigo and Emerald if anyone wants to oblige?
Last edited by sheyd on Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feathers

Post by ysanchz45 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:56 am

Hi...im new to this um ive been having my ringneck for about 7-8 years.....i grew up with him...yesterday i saw his tail feather was kind if crucked...when i touched it isaw that it brought him pain :cry: my mom noticed this too and she decided to cut the feather to free him from the pain....when she cut he started bleeding...we managed to stop it a bit but im not sure what to do reagrding his healing... Im really scared can anybody help....

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Re: Feathers

Post by electronegative » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:45 am

You probably cut a blood feather, which is a new/developing feather that still has blood running through it. Stop the bleeding with corn starch or corn flour, birds can easily bleed to death if not stopped. He may also need to see a vet. Hopefully someone else can elaborate, I'm not the most experienced on this subject myself.

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:31 pm

How interesting- the two brothers have molted 1 day after each other- I now have both their central tail feathers which helps me conclude that they both are either dfViolet or sfDark, sf Violet and not dfViolet, sfDark like I had started to think for one of them. (of course breeding results will be the only way to prove/disprove my current theory).
Last edited by sheyd on Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:39 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:Would the young's tails color match adult's ?
also, given that the adult's tail is old, sun bleached feather IDing is still fairly accurate?

Can we conclude that although a bird's body color could darken to adulthood, its tail color remains very much the same or very insignificant change?, correct?
Here you go Ben- ignore the peg- I tried to use it as distraction.. lol

daughter and father
Image

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:50 pm

Don't know why I didn't think to look at both sets in the shade- now that I have, I'm back to my original thoughts :roll: :lol:

In the shade- with reference reg Blue:
Image

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Re: Feathers

Post by prodigy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:23 pm

both look sf Violet

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:56 pm

Hi Peter- thanks for your input

Here are both the reg Blue and one of the 'violets' (feathers on the left, from last feather pic) He is definitely not just sf imo (neither 'violet' feathers look like that- they are much darker, and are of 'purple' colouring. Probably being in the bright morning light (even while in the shade) has made it harder to capture- it is very hard for this camera to pick up the violet colouring in my birds- but not for other objects that are also violet/purple- I've put it down to the way the light refracts in the feather that the camera can't/has trouble capture/ing- but I'm not too sure..

This is actually a pretty good representation of colour on both:

Image

I'll find out his (and his brothers) genetic makeup next year :)

I will take down the first two 'violet' tail feather pics, but leave the last and repost again when I can manage to capture them correctly.
edit- think this is the best I'll probably get them (rainy overcast morning)
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... 9256ce.jpg

did you have any feathers you could display?
Last edited by sheyd on Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:10 am



Shey, based on the feathers MO:
DF Violet Sf Dark Blue, Blue, SF Violet SF Dark Blue

or
SF Violet Sf Dark Blue, Blue, DF Violet Blue
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Re: Feathers

Post by Indian Ringneck Vic » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:06 pm

Shey I also have problems identifying birds with similar appearence with varying depth and brightness I put this down to these birds being influenced by a cocktail of genes that have been brought about with the introduction of the european cobalt I am now starting to suspect there may be two variants of the european cobalt that both add a slight difference to the mix when combined with similar morphs.

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:44 pm

Hi Paul, yes Johan has mentioned the two variances of Dark not too long ago. Wouldn't it be fabulous to have that darker strain here!? (or is it already??)

The 'violet' feathers belong to two nest brothers- so they share at least one same mutant gene (dfViolet dam)- In reality the tail feathers are of a nice dark purple colouration- both look very much the same, however the feathers on the left have an overall duller appearance- making them almost appear lighter- but not. Not sure if this makes sense or how else to explain.

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:35 pm

however the feathers on the left have an overall duller appearance- making them almost appear lighter- but not. Not sure if this makes sense or how else to explain


Makes sense Shey,

When adding structural mutations on top of each other, color tends to trend towards a light greyish overlay.
Dark Blue is the main guilty party doing so, hence Willy said he'll get rid of most of his Dark Blue birds.

PS: Deep Blues are a different matter Eg: having a DF Deep + Violet gives no sign of greyish.


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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:15 pm

Ring0Neck wrote:
however the feathers on the left have an overall duller appearance- making them almost appear lighter- but not. Not sure if this makes sense or how else to explain


Makes sense Shey,

When adding structural mutations on top of each other, color tends to trend towards a light greyish overlay.
Dark Blue is the main guilty party doing so, hence Willy said he'll get rid of most of his Dark Blue birds.

PS: Deep Blues are a different matter Eg: having a DF Deep + Violet gives no sign of greyish.


Thanks Ben
I am leaning towards dfViolet for the ones on the right- perhaps I should be leaning towards sfDark sfViolet instead. Both birds up until recently looked virtually identical- now that they're molting at the same pace I believe I can make out some slight differences.

Did you find out if your unconfirmed dfViolet, sfDark cock was what you thought?

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:28 pm



If you're referring to the purplish bird, I gave that to a friend.

Look at this pic, you can see the Original Violets the ones with the neckring. That's how a violet should look like.
Do yours look similar?

http://parakeet.me/irn/m/PA255701.JPG


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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:25 am

Can I be your friend??? :lol:

no- neither look like those three cocks (with the neckrings).
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... d0144f.jpg

When you say original violets- you mean of the lighter strain right- or are those birds sf American Violets?

what is the correct name for the lighter strain (of violet)?

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:41 pm

sheyd wrote:Can I be your friend??? :lol:

no- neither look like those three cocks (with the neckrings).
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47 ... d0144f.jpg

When you say original violets- you mean of the lighter strain right- or are those birds sf American Violets?

what is the correct name for the lighter strain (of violet)?
Yes :D If you don't ask what the other 3 are. Hahaha
Original Violets: American Violets
Short version but complete as far as i know.
J E & J F imports first ever Violet Blue hen in OZ (J E Still has the hen last i talked to him)
PR buys 1 of the first 3 violet blues ever bred in OZ
BM acquires Violet Blue from PR
The 3 ringed are the original version of violets. They are 4th generation Violets and the previous 3 pairings were Violet X Blue
so very little interference in its genetical makeup from minor modifiers etc etc.
I stand to be corrected if i am wrong in anything i said above but this is what i know.

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:03 am

great! thanks for confirming and the story behind them- Will have another look at what MG has said about his imported violet birds- perhaps the clues are in there- though now I'm fairly sure that I have the American strain rather than the lighter one.

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:15 am

Yes, I'd say you do.

No problem, its a great story to tell
first nest violet x blue = 3 violets and 1 blue
at 50k a piece quiet a nice result
To put that into perspective around that time my Dad bought a house with 2 blocks of land for $55k :shock:
today's value of the house around $400k
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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:36 am

Here's a pic from an article written by PR & Terry back in 07?

Image

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Re: Feathers

Post by Johan S » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:33 am

Shey, earlier in the thread you mention that you don't think your birds are sf violet only, and I agree. I'd say at least two structural mutations. It looks quite a bit like cobalt violet, but of course it is hard to say for sure. At my dad's place there are 6 cobalt violets in an aviary from two different pairs of mauve x violet, 4 from one pair and 2 from another. One can see a slight difference in these two results. It can be because of slight variation in violet or dark. Further to this, they are 5 to 1 hens to cocks. Interesting enough, the cock is a brighter dark violet appearance, with the hens appearing a shade closer to saturation and paler.

Ben, I don't think that the dark factor can be blamed for the birds appearing more greyish. I think that the dark mutation allows for a better expression of what is already present in the underlying blue mutation is closer to the truth. Thoughts?

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:49 pm

Ben- would you be able to send me a central tail feather from one of those AV cocks please? - (I could send you a feather in return if you like)

Johan- that last pic of the two is a horrible one (for actual colour) I added it to show that neither look 'bright' or 'blue'. I know 'greyish purple' may not be everyone's fancy- but I sure like it :)

Looking forward to the results next year for both (esp to see if I'm right :lol: )

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:23 pm

Shey,

Done.
I'm planning to go and take pics of the original violet hen 1st in OZ
That will be our definte reference of Original Violet and we can start work from there.
Perhaps acquire some direct offspring from her.

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Re: Feathers

Post by Kappa » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:57 am

Hi Shey,
I hope these photos are of some use to you.
By looking at your cock bird I would lean towards df violet cobalt. He looks similar to the bird on the far right, which also expresses a certain "greyness" around the neck and crop area. They are molting so look a bit scruffy.
These youngsters are out of a df violet cock and a violet blue cobalt hen. The hen is from a breeder in Qld, I just can't remember her name ATM. Apparently she was involved with violets early on in the piece, Ben might know who I'm talking about. I will try and find out her name.

From left to right they are violet blue cobalt, violet blue and df violet cobalt.

Image

Image
Cheers.

Image

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:55 am

Kappa

Was it Maxine?

Good reference pics !
In my experience once the birds mature the cobalt violet should look more purplish like the df vio cob does now.



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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:23 am

cheers Ben :D I'll get yours in the mail tomorrow.

Thanks Kappa- great set of pics :D

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Re: Feathers

Post by Johan S » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:12 am

Kappa wrote:From left to right they are violet blue cobalt, violet blue and df violet cobalt.

Image
If I was asked to guess, I would have said df violet, sf violet and cobalt violet.

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:23 pm

Here we are..

Huge thankyou to Ben- who has helped put American sfViolet into perspective for me and for the other feather :)

from left to right: Ben's ?, ?, ?, American sfViolet, Blue
(rainy overcast early afternoon-)

Image

Image

Ben, what is the genetic makeup of the bird (feather on the far left)-?

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Re: Feathers

Post by sheyd » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:45 pm

another approach:
(inside-this is fairly representative of colour surprisingly)


Ben's American sfViolet feather on the right in all 3 pics
same order as post above-

Bens ?
Image
?
Image
?
Image

Ben- those feathers should hopefully arrive today since I got yours yesterday

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Re: Feathers

Post by Ring0Neck » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:06 pm

sheyd wrote:





Image

Image

Ben, what is the genetic makeup of the bird (feather on the far left)-?
from left to right: Parblue DF Violet Sf Dark possibly Deep, DF?SF Violet SF Dark, DF Violet, American sfViolet, Blue

based on the pics, waiting to receive the feathers

Paired to a grey pied she bred 4 this year: 2 greys, 1turq. grey pied and 1 which i posted pics of here
http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 26&t=18396

Here she is (love this bird) with new fresh feathers look at her flight feathers how dark they are
http://parakeet.me/irn/m/em/d/PC177379.JPG
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