hi I'd like to know the visual difference between a dominant pied and recessive pied.
A person advertised two birds as SF violet harlequin pied and a DF violet harlequin pied.
I know harlequins are dominant but i want to be sure if they are the right birds.
they looked like these without the yellow (link below)
http://www.piedringnecksusa.com/
Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
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Re: Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
Hello
Harlequin are dominant pied don't have pied on the head
Recensief pied have pied in the head
look at my website psittacula-mutations.be
Harlequin are dominant pied don't have pied on the head
Recensief pied have pied in the head
look at my website psittacula-mutations.be
Re: Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
Hi Jungeng,
You are just the man who's brain in need to pick, please can you give me your toughs on the next two birds.
thanks,
Peter
You are just the man who's brain in need to pick, please can you give me your toughs on the next two birds.
thanks,
Peter
Re: Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
Peter, do you have any history on those birds? They look like pieds, but also don't. They are lacking the yellow/white patch on the back of the head. Then the eye is also strange. It seems like that of a young bird, but the rest of the bird doesn't seem like a juvenile. It doesn't fit the bill for a buttercup either. 
Re: Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
Molossus, PBFD will not explain the eyes of those birds. That must be linked to mutations or modifications.
Re: Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
Hi Guys,
OK Lets start at the top, we know the following:
This example of what i have is a two year old DK Green Male(2010) bird and very healthy and alive, and I have not lost one bird this season or the last due to illness.
He has the Following features the same as the other 4 birds I have(4x 2011 and 1x 2010):
Dark nails and feet
Dark eyes (almost completely black)
Red upper beak and black lower beak
No pied markings on the heads
No turquoise in the birds causing the yellow in the green series and white in the blue series birds
They keep the pied like makings after each molt
We have got this effect into WHWT, but only as a split at this stage, this effect appears to be dominant
Thoughts ?
OK Lets start at the top, we know the following:
This example of what i have is a two year old DK Green Male(2010) bird and very healthy and alive, and I have not lost one bird this season or the last due to illness.
He has the Following features the same as the other 4 birds I have(4x 2011 and 1x 2010):
Dark nails and feet
Dark eyes (almost completely black)
Red upper beak and black lower beak
No pied markings on the heads
No turquoise in the birds causing the yellow in the green series and white in the blue series birds
They keep the pied like makings after each molt
We have got this effect into WHWT, but only as a split at this stage, this effect appears to be dominant
Thoughts ?
Re: Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
Peter,
as Recio would say, "Let's develop:"
1) Is one of the 2010 birds a cock?
2) Did you perhaps get the opportunity to see the parents of your 4 birds? Do one of the parents share this phenotype or did it occur spontaneously? I'm curious to know whether cocks will develop a neck ring or not, thus the first two questions.
3) Do you have pictures of the young split cleartail you mention that shares this trait with the parent? As it is already in the phenotype of the first generation young, your assumption of dominant inheritance seems fine. Now to determine if it is incomplete or complete.
4) Is that a violet blue ADM recessive pied in the picture? Did they produce any offspring?
5) Are all four birds from the same "stock"? I.e. are they all related?
as Recio would say, "Let's develop:"
1) Is one of the 2010 birds a cock?
2) Did you perhaps get the opportunity to see the parents of your 4 birds? Do one of the parents share this phenotype or did it occur spontaneously? I'm curious to know whether cocks will develop a neck ring or not, thus the first two questions.
3) Do you have pictures of the young split cleartail you mention that shares this trait with the parent? As it is already in the phenotype of the first generation young, your assumption of dominant inheritance seems fine. Now to determine if it is incomplete or complete.
4) Is that a violet blue ADM recessive pied in the picture? Did they produce any offspring?
5) Are all four birds from the same "stock"? I.e. are they all related?
Re: Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
Hi Peter,
No thoughts ... but 2 more questions to add to Johan's comments:
The eyes : they are dark ...but are they juvenile or adult type? Can you see the iris?
The nails : you say they are dark ... but are they as dark as wild type or darker? Dark mutation acts only on feather structure and thus nails colour should be the same than in wild birds.
All other questions have already been made.
Regards
Recio
No thoughts ... but 2 more questions to add to Johan's comments:
The eyes : they are dark ...but are they juvenile or adult type? Can you see the iris?
The nails : you say they are dark ... but are they as dark as wild type or darker? Dark mutation acts only on feather structure and thus nails colour should be the same than in wild birds.
All other questions have already been made.
Regards
Recio
Re: Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
Hi Guys
1) Is one of the 2010 birds a cock?
Yes
2) Did you perhaps get the opportunity to see the parents of your 4 birds? Do one of the parents share this phenotype or did it occur spontaneously? I'm curious to know whether cocks will develop a neck ring or not, thus the first two questions.
Yes one of the parents parents share this phenotype
3) Do you have pictures of the young split cleartail you mention that shares this trait with the parent? As it is already in the phenotype of the first generation young, your assumption of dominant inheritance seems fine. Now to determine if it is incomplete or complete.
The Emerald split CT cock
4) Is that a violet blue ADM recessive pied in the picture? Did they produce any offspring?
Yes that is a violet blue ADM recessive pied in the picture and no they did not breed this year
5) Are all four birds from the same "stock"? I.e. are they all related?
4 are form the same blood line and 1 is not
and on to Recio's questions:
*The eyes : they are dark ...but are they juvenile or adult type? Can you see the iris?
the eyes of the 1 1/2 year old birds are the same as the 2 1/2 year old birds
The nails : you say they are dark ... but are they as dark as wild type or darker? Dark mutation acts only on feather structure and thus nails colour should be the same than in wild birds.
A little darker than wild type
Regards,
Peter
1) Is one of the 2010 birds a cock?
Yes
2) Did you perhaps get the opportunity to see the parents of your 4 birds? Do one of the parents share this phenotype or did it occur spontaneously? I'm curious to know whether cocks will develop a neck ring or not, thus the first two questions.
Yes one of the parents parents share this phenotype
3) Do you have pictures of the young split cleartail you mention that shares this trait with the parent? As it is already in the phenotype of the first generation young, your assumption of dominant inheritance seems fine. Now to determine if it is incomplete or complete.
The Emerald split CT cock
4) Is that a violet blue ADM recessive pied in the picture? Did they produce any offspring?
Yes that is a violet blue ADM recessive pied in the picture and no they did not breed this year
5) Are all four birds from the same "stock"? I.e. are they all related?
4 are form the same blood line and 1 is not
and on to Recio's questions:
*The eyes : they are dark ...but are they juvenile or adult type? Can you see the iris?
the eyes of the 1 1/2 year old birds are the same as the 2 1/2 year old birds
The nails : you say they are dark ... but are they as dark as wild type or darker? Dark mutation acts only on feather structure and thus nails colour should be the same than in wild birds.
A little darker than wild type
Regards,
Peter
Re: Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
Come on anyone ......anything ?????
Re: Recessive Pied or Dominant Pied
Hi prodigy
Did you establish anything of the 5 pied like birds you have ? I was looking at the snap of the dark green 2010 male you shared & it has a clear white iris ... is it one of those birds you have ? also the dominant inheritance is partially visible in the emerald split CT male as it also doesn't inherit the dark eyes but a few pied like feathers.
On a different note; I was curious to know if the ADM pied is a completely recessive mutation or incomplete dominant ?... what I mean to ask is that if a normal looking bird showing skin (light) colored feet might be carrying a single copy of ADM pied gene ?
Did you establish anything of the 5 pied like birds you have ? I was looking at the snap of the dark green 2010 male you shared & it has a clear white iris ... is it one of those birds you have ? also the dominant inheritance is partially visible in the emerald split CT male as it also doesn't inherit the dark eyes but a few pied like feathers.
On a different note; I was curious to know if the ADM pied is a completely recessive mutation or incomplete dominant ?... what I mean to ask is that if a normal looking bird showing skin (light) colored feet might be carrying a single copy of ADM pied gene ?