Deep and Emerald

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:31 am

I don't have a Violet EmeraldBlue so I can't tell if this is a Deep also. This is a Deep EmeraldBlue

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:41 am

Images too big, I have to reduce my image size and then save in photobucket? Photobucket has no 'save for web' click.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:53 am

you can use URL instead of Image
[url.] place your link here - photobucket.com...[/url]

this will give us a link to the picture

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:02 am

http://s1305.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... sort=3&o=0
http://s1305.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... sort=3&o=1

Not as nice as pasted in the post.

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:27 am

Willy's pictures.

Deep emeraldblue

Deep? violet emeraldblue

PS: they seem fine on my side with the suggested posting method.

mallee_1 · Post by **mallee_1** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:03 pm

Hi Willy,

What is the distinguishing features to look for to determine if a bird is carrying Emerald in Violetblues & Cobalts?

I have posted in another thread on "What am I" a young bird that is carrying Emerald to which you guessed correctly and I have 2 other siblings which one is definately a straight Emerald but there is another cobalt which dosn't look like a normal cobalt, it a lot brighter in appearance.

I will try and get photo and post for identification, might be reading more into it than I think.

Regards Glenn

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:49 pm

I noticed a bit of creamy colour on the left leg confirming psittacin but no patchiness anywhere on the back which eliminated a Turquoise or Indigo gene possibility. The overall colour is similar to EmeraldBlue when combined with Violet or Dark.

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:07 pm

I also meant to point out how much nicer Deep looks on an Emerald than Violet or Dark does. You 'in depth' thinkers may use this to surmise what is different about Deep from Violet and Dark and if the psittacin sometimes apparent in Deep birds also has something to do with it.

and another breeder's Violet EmeraldBlue. Does anyone have one of a Dark EmeraldBlue?

In preview the images have not loaded as Recio's instructions say they should. In case they still don't load here are the addresses between s and I would be appreciative if I can ... sort=3&o=2
http://s1305.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... sort=3&o=0

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:14 pm

I cut and pasted the addresses from the previous post. Still not loaded in preview.

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:20 pm

Sorry about the posts, I am trying to work it out.

Voila!! Something about the way us engineer's think I guess.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:17 am

This is an awesome Emerald

http://www.ourringnecks.com/apps/photos ... =168098479

willowisp71 · Post by **willowisp71** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:09 am

Hi Willie,

Just have to say....your birds are gorgeous colours!!

For me though, all this deep, dark, violet emeraldblue, deep emeraldblue......still all gobbledegook to me!

I'll keep reading these kinds of posts though, cos I reckon it will l have to sink in sooner or later

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:49 am

ok lets play guess this bird, it has Deep and Emerald in ...... any guesses ?

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:30 am

1-0 Violet Deep Green /blue X 0-1 Violet DK Deep Blue or

1-0 Violet DK Deep Green /blue X 0-1 Violet DK Deep Blue

hen

the cock died in a big storm we had

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:40 am

Hi Peter,

That is one beautiful bird.
How did you get to Emerald from that pairing?
I'm not an expert in Emerald , far from it, but the parents did not have emerald and your bird is green based colors.

What do you guys think of my new acquisition? (bird is not home yet)
What will i pair her up with ? if you read my posts and recio's comments you'll know

She's a Grey Emerald

through hue/sat system

My UV torch should come any day now and i will post UV pics in a couple of months when i receive the bird.

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:59 am

Hi Ben,

Because the "Violet DK Deep Blue" Cock produced the year before the bird in the upper left corner.

Am i correct in saying that the in saying that the bird in the upper left corner in an Emerald ?

thoughts ?

Regards,

Peter

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:58 am

Hi Peter,

Based on the picture & paint.net system alone, it certainly seems that way.
I don't have enough experience with Emerald to comment in more depth, i wish i did.
Perhaps Johan, Willy, Molossus could have an input as well.

The hue/sat system is still in testing phase but we can see that it can be beneficial, and we hope that it will help us in the future.

Ben

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:43 am

Hey Ben,

Love the system don't get me wrong, its helped me solve a few riddles over the last few weeks.

But back to the topic at hand, my baby

OK you know this picture

now my baby again

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:46 am

Hi Molossus,

The only place i am seeing anything is in the tail

Regards,

Peter

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:30 am

prodigy wrote:Hi Molossus,

The only place i am seeing anything is in the tail

That to me shows that the system might not be working. Notice the 'milky' yellow in the neck region and on the primary flights. For me, those are the regions where one can pick up the difference between emerald and turquoise. And the only reason I can point out those regions, is because I have seen UV pictures and only after that did it become clear to me. The ultimate test remains a UV inspection.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:15 pm

Johan,

Hue/Sat is not working on yellow birds, lutions etc, although i can see the emerald distinctive color where Peter circled in the photo.
I do think it helps on blue based colored birds and it can be used as an Aid/reference.
Certainly not guaranteed, just as with normal identification from pics, light, contrast, flash, etc best if a reference bird is in the pic of the same mutation.

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:24 pm

I am picking up a Emerald type color on the young female, on the head, chest and wings ?

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:20 am

molossus wrote:Johan,
let me know what you see in the two young alex. one is normal....I will tell you that much....

The one seems darker than the other. Are those the parents or fosters?

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:28 am

What I have noticed is the Emerald shows up as a VERY bright Purple/Pink color, the turquoise showing up as dull purple

Emerald

Violet turq and DF Turq Violet

DK Green Violet Cinnamon Dominant Edge

left to right - Violet Deep blue, DK Green Violet, Cobalt Violet Turq

Violet Turq

Cobalt Turq

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:48 am

Thanks for playing Peter. Pix removed, back to serious stuff.

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:28 pm

the first one is a female ...... and she is defiantly a keeper !

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:47 am

Thanks for playing Peter. Pix removed, back to serious stuff.

Peter, back to your Emerald bird.
I think the only way to be sure with or without the hue/sat system is to get an Emerald bird amonst your ones in question to have them in the same photo, as Willy says: you need a 100% point of reference, a 100% Emerald from Emerald known bloodline.
Take a picture of all birds in same shot then it will be easier to identify.

Hue/Sat system i made up is only as accurate as the photos (and we know pictures ..) I use same camera and settings and results become more accurate.

However, i don't think anyone has en Emerald in the mutations you do or close, making harder to compare apples with apples.

Also, your bird is not blue based and that will make it even harder to prove or disprove as being an Emerald or not.
It simply means, you are ahead with your breeding program and not much reference exists.

Your beaut. bird needs to be paired up to a blue bird & confirm through the offspring.

Cheers
BeN

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:46 am

--------------------------------------------------------

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:54 pm

Juv. Violet Emerald Blue

Pics below is provided by Mick - Pics taken with Flash

paint.net hue/sat

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:18 pm

Hi Ben,

Thanks Mick!

Just an observation, its strange that under the filters that we only see Emerald and what appears to be Deep.

I was expecting to see the usual purple/pink with orange tinges, instead i am seeing purple/pink with the red associated with deeps.

thought?

Regards,

Peter

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:23 pm

Peter,

Flash and lighting conditions changes everything.
Pics were taken close-up flash directly onto the bird, so Emerald can be seen clearer.
Best compare using same setting, camera, and if possible all birds in same photo.
Otherwise it is a reference rather then solid evidence. more fine tuning perhaps required.
I have taken several pics diff days of the same birds and managed to get diff. hue/sat colors.
I know what you mean though.

Ben

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:52 pm

Molossus,

I invited Mick to join us, not sure if he's going to come onboard.
The bird was advertised for sale, still is.
I will try to find out the parentage.
She is a beauty isn't she?

Ben

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:12 am

Does anyone know the answer to why & what did Sjack bred with the VioletBlue hen?
http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/ ... sage/18665

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:24 pm

Now that's an emerald!

Thanks for the pictures, Ben. A real beauty.

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:34 am

Does anyone have a pic of "DF" Emerald? has anyone got one? i doubt it.

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:14 am

There is a SA breeder I know of that has one. Don't have permission to post the picture, though. There is a rather large difference under UV between the SF and DF birds.

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:18 am

Here is that baby a few week down the line, very interesting how he is coloring up !

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:20 am

Emerald Juvenile

http://parakeet.me/irn/f/emerald.jpg

prodigy · Post by **prodigy** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:12 am

Ben, what you think of this (and i am not talking about the kids weird right toe

)

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:35 am

Does not look like an emerald to me, pic is also got too much lighting.
When you see an emerald you know immediately as the color is striking, not so easy to see in the pics.
parents should give you clues, i assume no cinnamon in the bird right?
I agree with Willy that sometimes is so hard to figure out through pics.
You know, it crossed my mind...lets all buy same digital camera, and specify setting of the pics taken so at least pic comparissons are closer to the truth. Easier said then done.

Ben

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:13 pm

I learned something new this year. Last year I bred the Violet looking bird 2nd from the left at the top. It was much darker than a Violet but not as dark as its Deep Violet mother to its right so did not know what it was. The father is the Emerald to its left.

[/img]
6 months later it started showing patches of green. Recio will remember this bird.

[img]

Ring0Neck · Post by **Ring0Neck** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:57 pm

Good points you made there molossus.
Willy did know it was an Emerald, just not a violet emerald, as i understand it.
(all birds in Willy's pic are emerald - deep emerald at bottom left) right Willy?
Willy, Recio - Is it possible that sometimes Emerald features emerge later? if it behaves as patched mutation one would think yes...
can breeders miss identify the birds as being emeralds when young? I assume that as birds get darker ie violet+cobalt+deep etc can make identification of emeralds harder!?

Ben

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:44 am

Hi Willy,

As always ... very interesting observations ...
Before going further ... do you know which were your emerald male parents?

Regards

Recio

Recio · Post by **Recio** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:50 am

Hi Molossus,

The increase in psittacin with aging till adulthood in Alex Aqua ... does it show an even distribution or a patched distribution like in Willy's IRN?

Regards

Recio

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:47 am

Recio wrote:Before going further ... do you know which were your emerald male parents?

Are you thinking that one of the parents might have been an indigo, and that the cock bird carries both the emerald and the indigo mutation?

However, if this result is from a 'pure' emerald blue, it does add weight to the parblue theory (if the psittacin appearance is age dependent).

Johan S · Post by **Johan S** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:57 am

Molossus, that will depend entirely on whether the emerald mutation changes the expression of psittacins over time, or whether it is fairly constant from fledglings to adulthood (i.e. independent on hormones). The pictures that Willy has uploaded is the first evidence I've seen (on the internet, I don't own the mutation) that suggests that there is actually an increase over time. This is a piece of the puzzle that has been reported differently in the past. This is probably why Recio wants confirmation of the parentage of the father/cock to be sure to exclude indigo.

PS: It's not my camera, but I'll ask if I can bring it along.

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:00 am

molossus wrote:Willy hi,
I noticed this same process follows in the aqua alexandrine. Although the difference of blue to aqua is clear when babies feather up there is a gradual color change over the coming seasons with the green aspect being increased with each moult up until birds reach adulthood. I suppose this is linked to hormonal changes from fleging to adulthood.
Willy back to your pics. In the first pic you have : one young on the far right - is this the deep?
one young at the bottom - is this the deep emerald?
regards.

Yes

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:02 am

Ring0Neck wrote:

Willy did know it was an Emerald, just not a violet emerald, as i understand it.
(all birds in Willy's pic are emerald - deep emerald at bottom left) right Willy?

They are not all Emerald

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:04 am

Recio wrote:Hi Willy,

As always ... very interesting observations ...
Before going further ... do you know which were your emerald male parents?

Regards

Recio

Np

trabots · Post by **trabots** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:06 am

Recio wrote:Hi Molossus,

The increase in psittacin with aging till adulthood in Alex Aqua ... does it show an even distribution or a patched distribution like in Willy's IRN?

Regards

Recio

I have young patched EmeraldBlues. The patchyness is on the wing flash not the back and upper wings where you see it on T or I birds