Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

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willowisp71
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Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Hmmmm.....is it possible the dad is also carrying split ino?? Would this result in these 2 chicks carrying so much visual white? (I kind of assumed that an ino bird would be basically visually all white or all yellow, with only a hint of a hue etc)

1.0 green rec.pied /blue ino
x 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
% from all 1.0
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue) ino
12.5% 1.0 blue rec.pied /ino
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /blue ino
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied /ino
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 1.0 blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
% from all 0.1
12.5% 0.1 ino rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 0.1 blue ino rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 ino rec.pied /blue
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 0.1 blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied


Anyone else (newbies) want to have a crack also? Interested to see what others thoughts are :D
Regards Deb
Johan S
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S »

Deb, now you are on the right track. The cock is recessive ADM pied, yes. But you don't have the hen 100% yet. However, you're spot on with the chicks as well! Your Gencalc output (without ino!) is almost right. You just need some tweaking on the hen's side. I'm also going to give you a gold star for the combination of blue and turquoise. You seem to have that sorted out well! Perhaps you can explain your thought process to others.
willowisp71
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Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Hi Johan,

Oh yay! It's nice to know I'm on the right track, anyway!

Hmmm...yes the hen, I did figure that I didn't have her quite right. Now, is it the pied that I don't have right with her? Is she dominant pied instead? Or is it something else?? I did at one point wonder if she had Darkfactor in her, and even entertained for a moment that perhaps she was Violet Turquoise pied instead of Turquoise(parblue)Blue Pied....? But to be honest, Johan, I'm really guessing at this point, not speaking with any certainty.

My thought process; to start with, both the chicks are obviously pied, and are showing blue, so that means both parents must carry blue in their genetics, as blue is recessive. The dad is visually Green Pied, and the pied is recessive as he has no neck ring, and he must also be split to blue in order to produce the blue in the chicks. Then I figured the hen must be turquoise, as one of the chicks has yellow patches as well as blue. I played around with the GenCalc until I could produce both a blue rec.pied, and a turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied.

And even going through all that just now, I'm still stumped on the missing link with the hen :D :D :D
Regards Deb
madas
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by madas »

willowisp71 wrote:Hi Johan,

Oh yay! It's nice to know I'm on the right track, anyway!

Hmmm...yes the hen, I did figure that I didn't have her quite right. Now, is it the pied that I don't have right with her? Is she dominant pied instead? Or is it something else?? I did at one point wonder if she had Darkfactor in her, and even entertained for a moment that perhaps she was Violet Turquoise pied instead of Turquoise(parblue)Blue Pied....? But to be honest, Johan, I'm really guessing at this point, not speaking with any certainty.

My thought process; to start with, both the chicks are obviously pied, and are showing blue, so that means both parents must carry blue in their genetics, as blue is recessive. The dad is visually Green Pied, and the pied is recessive as he has no neck ring, and he must also be split to blue in order to produce the blue in the chicks. Then I figured the hen must be turquoise, as one of the chicks has yellow patches as well as blue. I played around with the GenCalc until I could produce both a blue rec.pied, and a turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied.

And even going through all that just now, I'm still stumped on the missing link with the hen :D :D :D
So compare the pied male on the left and the pied? female on the right. Sure she is pied?

madas
willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Hi madas,

If the cock is rec.pied, but the hen is NOT pied at all, then how are the chicks visually pied? Or are they not considered visually pied, but something else? :| Now I really AM confused! lol :lol:
Regards Deb
McmillanBirds
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by McmillanBirds »

Deb- *hint*: does a bird need to be visually pied to carry the pied gene?
Johan S
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S »

Thanks for the help Madas and Carmen!

Deb, have you been able to sove it yet? Another hint: You were able to work out that we can breed blue and turquoise chicks from a green parent. How was that possible? :?:
willowisp71
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Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Carmen - I thought Madas was intimating that the hen had no pied gene in her at all, but of course, if she is SPLIT to pied, then that would work as well :)

Johan - NOOOOOOOoooooooo! Boohoo..... :lol: , I still can't work it out - unless it's just a simple case of her being turquoise(parblue)Blue SPLIT to pied.rec.....but she doesn't LOOK like (visually) just turquoise(parblue)Blue....she's all patchy!! Is she moulting?? lol :lol:
Johan S wrote:Another hint: You were able to work out that we can breed blue and turquoise chicks from a green parent. How was that possible?
Answer: the green pied cock is split to blue, and the hen must be turquoise blue to allow them to breed blue and turquoise offspring...yes? Blue being recessive, needs to be present in both parents to get blue chicks?

Ok, this is my last attempt at this, and then someone will have to put me out of my misery, lol, :lol:

1.0 green rec.pied /blue
x 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
% from all 1.0
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 1.0 green /turquoise(parblue) rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 blue /rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 1.0 green /blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
% from all 0.1
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 0.1 green /turquoise(parblue) rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 blue /rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 0.1 green /blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
Regards Deb
Johan S
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S »

Deb, your last attempt was spot on! :) I will mark the genetic description of the chicks.

So, as another Gencalc lesson, you will notice that the offspring can be either hens or cocks, so they should be sexed surgically or by DNA.

And I will let you in on a little secret as well. Those were the foster parents, but they could have been the real parents. :lol:
willowisp71 wrote:Ok, this is my last attempt at this, and then someone will have to put me out of my misery, lol, :lol:

1.0 green rec.pied /blue
x 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
% from all 1.0
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 1.0 green /turquoise(parblue) rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 blue /rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 1.0 green /blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
12.5% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
% from all 0.1
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /turquoise(parblue)
12.5% 0.1 green /turquoise(parblue) rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 blue /rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 green rec.pied /blue
12.5% 0.1 green /blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue rec.pied
12.5% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue /rec.pied
willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Oh joy!! Lol, thanks Johan! Here I was thinking there must have been something more complex involved with the hen!
And is it just the photo, or does she actually look kind of patchy? Or am I just seeing things? To be honest, she doesn't look like other Turquoise(parblue)Blue's I've seen pics of, which I think is what kept throwing me!

And they were foster parents, too! Tricky, tricky, tricky! :lol: But yes, I can see that they still COULD have produced those chicks :)

Well done, and thanks for making me 'stretch' my brain cells with this one....I definitely need to start wrapping my head around the other mutations, like the pied's, CHCT's, dilutes, clearhead_fallows, etc, etc. I find I'm usually pretty accurate when dealing with the top half of the GenCalc....but the bottom half is still a little daunting :shock: :|
Regards Deb
willowisp71
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

PS: Thanks also Madas and Carmen for your 'hints' :D
Regards Deb
king kong
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by king kong »

Hi all
trick trick trick OMG :twisted:
though the piedness is my weakest area but my guess is
from Left
Rec. Edged Pied Green, Rec Edged Pied Turquoise Blue, Rec. Edged Pied Blue, Green Hen
looking for correction :mrgreen:
regards
Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi guys, sorry for not posting in this thread as I was busy studying for my papers which are now over. I would like to thank Johan for giving you guys some work to do while I was studying and would like for him and others to put up more puzzles if you guys like to keep the newbies busy. I will put up some homework later today which will be very easy for you guys to do, seeing its the festive season and once we go into the new year I will continue with more lessons to keep you guys occupied until my next exams come up in May/June 2013

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
sheyd
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd »

From the Gen Calc- What would a Grey pallidIno/Turquoise look like? I've noticed that there's neither the word 'Green' nor 'Blue' after the word 'Grey'- would this bird be a Green or a Blue series bird? (Am thinking green since a blue cant be split to Turquiose) this has me stumped as it came up on FB.. after seeing a photo of a Grey Pallid looking chick, that apparently came from a Turquiose Ino (Creamino) cock, and a Grey Pallid Hen.


Anyone help me out? (:
Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi Chocobo in order to answer your question I first need to understand what have you seen, is it

1.0 grey(sf) pallidIno /turquoise(parblue)

If so then this would according to my understanding be a greygreen pallidino split turquoise

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
sheyd
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd »

Lushen1600 wrote:Hi Chocobo in order to answer your question I first need to understand what have you seen, is it

1.0 grey(sf) pallidIno /turquoise(parblue)

If so then this would according to my understanding be a greygreen pallidino split turquoise

Thanks
Lushen
This it it exactly (would explain the pale caramel grey looking colour)- thanks for your help (:
sheyd
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd »

I just thought of something...two blue birds cannot a green bird make... so that formula is wrong! the chick in question can only be a blue series bird...so it has to be a. 1.0 grey(sf)Turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno :oops:
Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi Chocobo, my mistake as I never read your initial post properly so never saw the parents genetics, so for that pairing these are the results

1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino
x 0.1 grey(sf) blue pallid
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) blue pallidIno <--- could be this chick
25.0% 1.0 blue pallidIno
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno <--- could be this chick
25.0% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) blue ino
25.0% 0.1 blue ino
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue ino
25.0% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino

What caught my attention was when you mentioned

"From the Gen Calc- What would a Grey pallidIno/Turquoise look like? I've noticed that there's neither the word 'Green' nor 'Blue' after the word 'Grey"

So reading that I automatically thought of greygreen pallidino/turquoise.

Sorry about the mistake as I'm not sure how I missed the info on the parents of that chick

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
sheyd
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd »

Lushen1600 wrote:Hi Chocobo, my mistake as I never read your initial post properly so never saw the parents genetics, so for that pairing these are the results

1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino
x 0.1 grey(sf) blue pallid
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) blue pallidIno <--- could be this chick
25.0% 1.0 blue pallidIno
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno <--- could be this chick
25.0% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue pallidIno
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) blue ino
25.0% 0.1 blue ino
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue ino
25.0% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino

What caught my attention was when you mentioned

"From the Gen Calc- What would a Grey pallidIno/Turquoise look like? I've noticed that there's neither the word 'Green' nor 'Blue' after the word 'Grey"

So reading that I automatically thought of greygreen pallidino/turquoise.

Sorry about the mistake as I'm not sure how I missed the info on the parents of that chick

Thanks
Lushen
lol all good :) I'm still learning- need more lessons I think...lol
Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi all after a very long break I'm now ready to continue with lesson on the genetic calculator, but before I do I would like to do a recap of all the 6 calculations that we have done so far

1) Green cock x Green hen
2) Green cock x Lutino Hen
3) Green/ino cock x Lutino hen
4) Green/ino cock x Green Hen
5) Lutino cock x Green hen
6) Lutino cock x Lutino hen

Understanding these calculations I would like to give you guys some homework.

If you notice there are 3 other sexlinked mutations besides "ino" namely:-

Cinnamon
Pallid
Opaline

So what I would like you to do is to first replace the last 5 matings with these mutation where you see "lutino" or "ino" and work them out for yourselves, so for the first 5 calculations you would use Cinnamon, then move onto 5 Pallid calculations and lastly 5 Opaline calculations. To make thing easier here are the 15 calculations that you would need to work out on your own

1) Green cock x Cinnamon Hen
2) Green/cinnamon cock x Cinnamon hen
3) Green/cinnamon cock x Green Hen
4) Cinnamon cock x Green hen
5) Cinnamon cock x Cinnamon hen

6) Green cock x Pallid Hen
7) Green/pallid cock x Pallid hen
8) Green/pallid cock x Green Hen
9) Pallid cock x Green hen
10) Pallid cock x Pallid hen

11) Green cock x Opaline Hen
12) Green/opaline cock x Opaline hen
13) Green/opaline cock x Green Hen
14) Opaline cock x Green hen
15) Opaline cock x Opaline hen

So once you have completed all 15 calculations, you would have learnt what pairings you would get when mating a green ringneck to a sexlinked mutation.

From here onwards we are going to move on from sexlinked to recessive mutations.
So while you guys are busy with this homework, I'm going to work on the next lesson

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
evelch
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Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by evelch »

So glad I found this forum. I am finally starting to understand the basics of breeding mutations and gaining an understanding of how this calculator works. Well until I got to your puzzle OMG those multi coloured birds totally stumped me. Tried following Debs cals till I became totally lost. Put it down to me being the newest of a newbie...lol...I haven't bred any birds yet, buying my first nesting box this week in preparation for the next breeding season. But i never say die so wish me luck with the 15 cals I now face.
regards
Eve
nalukaikamahine
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:52 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by nalukaikamahine »

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
This is a FANTASTIC informational thread. I've learned so much already. :mrgreen:
Completely, Utterly & Unconditionally In Love With My Baby Ringneck, Apollo!

Image
evelch
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:37 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by evelch »

Homeworks done! I'm getting good at this...lol...oh Apollo is a real cutie hope he grows into a real character like my Sammy.....never a dull moment in this house. Sammy's the boss here, i'm just the supplier of his yummy treats :D
ANGIE MONKMAN
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:37 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by ANGIE MONKMAN »

Hi everyone I have just seen Grey Male mating with light green female, what babies will I get please ? I have tried to follow genetics but too hard lol x
sheyd
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd »

ANGIE MONKMAN wrote:Hi everyone I have just seen Grey Male mating with light green female, what babies will I get please ? I have tried to follow genetics but too hard lol x
depends what you mean by 'light green' - but I'm assuming that you mean either a Green Pallid or a Green Cinnamon.

Grey x Green Pallid will produce Greygreen and Green chicks, with the cocks being split Blue and Pallid, while hens being only split for Blue


Grey x Green Cinnamon will produce Greygreen and Green chicks with the cocks split Blue and Cinnamon, while hens being only split for Blue.
ANGIE MONKMAN
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:37 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by ANGIE MONKMAN »

Chocobo wrote:
ANGIE MONKMAN wrote:Hi everyone I have just seen Grey Male mating with light green female, what babies will I get please ? I have tried to follow genetics but too hard lol x
depends what you mean by 'light green' - but I'm assuming that you mean either a Green Pallid or a Green Cinnamon.

Grey x Green Pallid will produce Greygreen and Green chicks, with the cocks being split Blue and Pallid, while hens being only split for Blue


Grey x Green Cinnamon will produce Greygreen and Green chicks with the cocks split Blue and Cinnamon, while hens being only split for Blue.
Can you tell me what will be male or female please? Oh sorry how do I put pics on here to show you, many thanks
x
sheyd
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:22 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by sheyd »

Angie- the chicks from the two possible pairings I gave above, would need to be surgical or dna'd sexed.

Pm me and I'll help you put a pic up if you want
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Hi Lushen, and everyone else following this thread!

It's been awhile since I last visited - had a bit going on at home - but I've still been studying the mutations like crazy in my spare time. Have added 3 books to my library - Bastiaans 'Asiatic Parrots and their Mutations", Phil Robson's "The Indian Ringneck Breeders handbook", and Syd and Jack Smiths "Guide to Asiatic Parrots" - I can spend HOURS pouring over all the photos and info inside :)

Our new violetblue hen, Pepper, has settled in well, and both she and Skittles, our blue male (unknown genetics), have well and truly bonded. On the advice of an Australian breeder, we have given them a breeding box this year, more as a practice run, rather than expecting much to come of it. Pepper is only 8 months old now, so still too young to expect much. They are great little mates though - until one has a toy or bit of food that the other wants - and then it's wrestling with desired object until one or the other wins out and flies off in a great hurry! :)

Looking forward to the next round of lessons Lushen. Hope your flock is doing well, and looking forward to seeing what your breeding season produces this year :)
Regards Deb
Lushen1600
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Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi Deb, nice to see you back online, I have not been online much due to studying for my final 2 papers which I write on Monday and Wednesday., once those 2 are over I will be able to come online more frequently.

I will get more lessons on as soon as I'm free and will continue with breeding of recessive mutation to the green series, so you can practice calculating a few on your own and see what you get.

My flock is doing well, but as usual I'm sure mine will be the last to go down, as I have found in the past 2 years, so only expecting my first eggs at the end of July or beginning of August. I'm also curious as to what babies I will produce this season as I have paired up 10 pairs for this season and have changed around most of my pairings as compared to last season, leaving only 2 pairs the same as last season. I have also sold and/or swopped some of my birds for other mutations. I'm not sure if I'm going to do a daily update as I have done last season but will decide at the beginning of July.

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Hi Lushen,

Great to hear from you too. Hope your studies are going well, and glad to hear you are nearing completion :)

I can understand your hesitation at doing a daily update this year of your breeding results - it must have put a lot of pressure on your time last year, given you were in the midst of all that study also! Top marks for your efforts though - I found the thread really interesting, not to say informative as well :) You will of course keep your own daily records for future use, but even a weekly/bi-weekly update for us here in the forum would be much appreciated by all, I'm sure, and for newbies like me, very helpful too :D
Have you listed somewhere in one of the threads what pairs you've put together this year? I notice your 'signature' doesn't list them this time around :wink:

I'll be off now, and do the homework you set earlier :D .... Look forward to the next installment, when you have a bit more time on your hands.
Regards Deb
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi Deb, I will consider doing a thread with a list of all my pairings for the 2013 breeding season and may even do either a weekly or bi-weekly updates. I cannot promise daily updates due to time constraints, but will try and do my best with as many pics as possible.

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
trabots
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:18 pm

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by trabots »

I have paired up 10 pairs for this season and have changed around most of my pairings as compared to last season
I would like to get other people's experiences with re-pairing IRNs. I lost 2 cocks last year after pairing them to several year experienced hens which proceeded to kill them right when the others had started laying. Is this an experience had by others? Last year I also tried 4 pairs with early bred year old hens and had 3 of them produce clutches. The pairings weren't ideal so the now 'experienced ' 2yo hens are paired with what I really wanted them paired with. I am hoping they will be more accepting of their new mates than the older hens are.
Johan S
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Johan S »

Willy, we have had similar experience. My dad lost a violet cock a couple of weeks ago to an aggressive hen. What seems to work best for us is to re-pair the new pairs straight after the breeding season while they are still moulting. The hens seem to be more docile during this time. My dad and I also have the luxury that we swap certain birds over Dec/Jan when I visit down there. I find it rather strange that certain hens will not bond very tightly with cocks, and these esp. will get new cocks every year. But, we also have our share of hens that cause the problems you are describing.
Lushen1600
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Lushen1600 »

Hi Willy, as Johan said its better to do you pairings early if you want to swop your hens around, which is exactly what I have done, but I have found that in the past few weeks, I had a male start to chase a female, and had to swop her with another hen, and also had 2 hens chasing males and had to make some swops of hens there as well, but all seems to be fine now, and I only have 1 pair that is the same as last year, all the others have been changed around. Although some pairs are not what I would have wanted to pair up, but I guess we can't always have our way, and if the birds are not happy with the partner I have selected, then I change them around, as I wouldn't want to lose any cocks or hens through fighting

Thanks
Lushen
2014 Pairs
Green x Green
DGreen x DBlue
DE Blue/ino x DBlue
Grey/ino x Albino
Pallidino x Lutino
DE Blue Turq x Grey
DE Grey Turq x Blue
Greygreen/cinn x DE Blue Cinn
DE DBlue Turq x Blue Turq CHWT
Blue x DBlue Turq
Blue x Blue Pallid
Lutino/blue x Blue
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Hi Lushen

Although it would be of interest to follow your pairings this year, I appreciate you have a busy time ahead. The occasional update on their progress would be great :)

Sorry to hear about your Derbyan cock, Molossus - and Willy, that's distressing about the loss of your IRN cocks.
It's the one thing I still fear with my pair, although I'm hopeful that given my blue cock is a mature bird, and our violet hen is only 8 months old, that she will be ok with him. She is definately the more dominant of the pair. They play together quite well during the day when outside their cages, only occasionally squabbling over a toy or piece of food. She will submit (hunch down with head tilted back) when he does his courting dance with her - most of the time anyway. They do still have separate cages, and although she thinks it's her given right to go into his cage whenever she likes, if she catches him in HER cage then she charges in and chases him around until he can make his escape. She has had "sleep overs" in his cage at night a number of times, but we leave his door unlatched when she does, just in case she decides to have a go at him and he can't escape her. And he certainly looks rather uncomfortable when she IS having a sleep over in his cage. Time will tell I guess. We were hoping that they would be sharing a cage by now, but still aren't confident about leaving them locked in the same cage unattended, so the two cages remain for now.
Regards Deb
Terje
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:15 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Terje »

Lushen1600 wrote:Hi Deb, grey is a blue series bird, so you will get blue babies by putting 2 grey birds together, unless of course 1 bird is a double factor grey then you will get all grey babies, seeing that you got 1 blue baby, that would mean that both your birds are single factor, will explain all this in more detail in future lessons

Thanks
Lushen
I love this thread, I'm just beginning to scrape the surface of it - but the above quote has me puzzled. No matter how I put in two grey parents, no blue comes out as a result.


1.0 grey(sf) green
x 0.1 grey(sf) green
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 grey(df) green
50.0% 1.0 grey(sf) green
25.0% 1.0 green
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 grey(df) green
50.0% 0.1 grey(sf) green
25.0% 0.1 green
Calculated on 29 Apr 2014 11:47:35 , Prague


How is does this work with grey being a blue series bird?

Terje
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Hi Terje,

By only checking the (sf) grey button, you are actually choosing the green series grey mutation, in other words, grey-green. To select a visually GREY bird, you need to check both the grey and the blue button's, hence, a grey blue bird. You should get the following:
1.0 grey(sf) blue
x 0.1 grey(sf) blue
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 grey(df) blue
50.0% 1.0 grey(sf) blue
25.0% 1.0 blue
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 grey(df) blue
50.0% 0.1 grey(sf) blue
25.0% 0.1 blue

Hope this helps :)

PS; I should specify - check both GREY and BLUE buttons in the VISUAL column :)
Regards Deb
Mad Max
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:12 am
Location: Nigel , South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Mad Max »

here is a nicecombination for us to work on

1-0 cleartail Violet Blue / Ino X 0-1 Turquoise Violet Blue /cleartail

The challange is going to be with the ino and turquoise ino's
I.E how will you Identify a cleartail verses a normal bird
Also how will you identify a sf and df in the ino's and turquoise ino's
Thoughts Please
Regards
Robert
Terje
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:15 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Terje »

I'd love to se a photo of a turquoise blue violet, because with one of my two new additions ( DD violet cobalt (does that mean dark?), combined with either of the two I have (a turquoise pallid pair), that seems to come up a lot when I do test matings in the calculator. I don't even know what that is! LOL
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Wow, Robert (MadMax)…..what a combination! My head is spinning, just trying to separate all the variations from this combo :shock:

So, firstly, the difference between the normal coloured chicks and the clear tails (without taking into consideration the splits at this point), the clear tails should differ in colour of the tails(when they grow in), but also the bottom half of the belly should be white/cream?? (heads take a couple of moults to become "clear" in the cock birds). I've heard the toenails are 'snow white' at birth as well, but not sure on the validity of that?

From this pairing you'll also get albino/albino looking hens, i.e. blue ino, blue violet ino, turquoise blue ino, turq blue violet ino, and again all in clear tail ino, but these birds essentially will look pure white, as the ino masks the others. All hens will either be clear tail or split to clear tail, and some (sf) and (df) in the violet blues and turq violet blues.

Cocks you'll get clear tails, some split to ino, and normals, split to clear tail and/or ino, some (sf) and some (df) in the violet blues and turquoise violet blues.

No idea how you would identify the sf and df in the ino's and turn ino's.

Interested to see others thoughts on this pairing? A bit mind-boggling for my level of understanding :)

Terje - DD signifies Double Dark, so a DD Blue = Mauve. Cobalt = Dark Blue, or D Blue. Trying to get my head around your DD violet Cobalt? Would love to see a pic :)
Regards Deb
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Ring0Neck »

Terje - DD signifies Double Dark, so a DD Blue = Mauve. Cobalt = Dark Blue, or D Blue. Trying to get my head around your DD violet Cobalt? Would love to see a pic :)
Deb,

You got pretty much everything spot on, you're getting pretty good at genetics. :)
Trying to get my head around your DD violet Cobalt?
I guess this is a typo as you have written just before it a DD Blue is a Mauve therefore can not have Mauve Cobalt bird (DDD Blue)
it'd be just Mauve (DD Blue), a Mauve Violet is a greyish looking bird with some violet tinge seen at rump/tail etc.

Robert
If you part with any offspring cockbirds from that pair, make sure you mention possible split INO to the breeder getting the bird/s, since it is not possible to tell which cockbird is split ino visually.
I'm an Explorer
10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 50% pleasure, 5% pain$ and a 100% reason ..I just gotta know
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Ring0Neck wrote:Deb,

You got pretty much everything spot on, you're getting pretty good at genetics.
Hi Ring0, thanks for the encouragement - work keeps me pretty busy these days, but I still find time to try and keep up with my understanding of genetics :) It's all based on paper though, as I still only have the one pair, 1.0 Blue x 0.1 (sf) violet blue - and still no luck with breeding them as yet, but maybe they'll go down this season (if my male ever works out what to do!) :)

And yeah, the DD Violet Cobalt was a little puzzling, as you are correct in saying that it can't be DD as well as Cobalt - possibly DD violet as you suggest, or perhaps even a (df) violet cobalt (not sure if I've written that in correct format, but essentially a Dark Double factor Violetblue is what I'm getting at). Parentage would be helpful in guessing better what Terje's new bird's mutation could be.
Regards Deb
Terje
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:15 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Terje »

Deb, I'm just repeating what my very inexperienced ears thought they heard the breeder say. Maybe there is no such thing. :oops: 10 days from now, he/she will be here. I know there was cobalt blue in the same clutch.
Here he/she is; and also the father. Here in Holland they often talk about (directly translated) "whitehead/whitetail" - which must mean something like clearhead/cleartail, but aren't those two separate mutations? Anyhow, the father is split for this, and mine might be. Excuse my ignorance, but every time someone corrects me, I get a little wiser 8) I'll make sure to take some photos of both parent birds when I pick him up.
Image
Image
willowisp71
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:52 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by willowisp71 »

Hi Terje, I hope i didn't offend you by questioning the mutation of your new IRN - that was not my intention, I assure you! To be honest, 2 years ago, I didn't even know what an Indian Ringneck was, let alone what colours/mutations they came in, lol :lol: I have merely become so intrigued with the breed, that any bird of unknown or uncertain mutation/parentage becomes a personal challenge for myself to try and work out what the possibilities are :D :D When I first started learning about the mutations of IRNs, I was completely bamboozled to start with - but with the help of some very patient and understanding people from this site, and lots of research, it suddenly all began to make more sense - yet I still have so much more to learn! I have to admit, when they start talking heterozygous and homozygous etc, I get a little lost in the woods on that one ( I THINK I understand the basics, but haven't had much time to study that side of things yet :) ) Anyway, you have come to the right place if it's IRNs and their mutations you want to learn about. This is a great forum.

And yes you are correct, 'whitehead-whitetail' and 'clearhead-cleartail' (CHCT) are the same thing - CHCT is just the term that covers both blue series birds (WHWT) and green series birds 'yellowhead-yellowtail' (YHYT).

Thanks for the pics of your new hub, and his/her father - he's a good-looking bird, and if he is split CHCT, then I wonder if the mother is also either CHCT or split CHCT? Looking at the pic of the dad, I can see a pale-fronted bird at the back of his cage (to the left) on a perch. I wonder if that's mum, or one of the chicks?
Either way, your bub looks gorgeous, although the lighting in the pic makes it hard for a novice like me to accurately guess the colour. I would think there's at least the violet in him/her, and possibly Dark(Cobalt)….? But perhaps some of the more experienced breeders could give you some input? I've not ever seen a cobalt in the flesh (or feather, so to speak :P ), only photo's - and we all know how one pic can differ from the next, depending on light conditions :)

Anyway, I'd love to see pics of both parents if it's possible when you pick up your new bub. I'm sure you are waiting with much anticipation :)

PS: I'm thinking the dad may be double factor violet - based on comparison with my (sf) violet hen - he seems that way in the pic at least! So I'd be interested to know what the mum is, and have a play around with the GenCalc. If dad is say, (df)Violetblue/CHCT, mum might be D Blue, and CHCT or split CHCT…???
Regards Deb
Mad Max
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:12 am
Location: Nigel , South Africa

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Mad Max »

Hi All
Back again (Finger trouble with internet)

As Willwisp71 rightfully said all the males from that pair would be possable split ino (If I do decide to sell , I will let the buyers know what the parents of these birds are) , but thats not what I am after . I want to see what effect Opaline has on Ino or Creamino , The reason for the pairing .
If I am correct I think the Violet or even better a df Violet Ino will be a white bodied bird with a very nice dark head .If I am wrong then its back to the drawing board 8)

regards
Robert
Terje
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:15 am

Re: Basics of how to use the Genetic Calculator

Post by Terje »

Ok, so here is my new baby, from a violet cock and cobalt hen - that's all I know. What can you guys tell me about the color/genetics here? I chose a different and younger one than the one in my previous post, so disregard that info, this is from a different set of parents.
Terje
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